Natalee Case Discussion #797 1/30/09 - 2/1/09

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou

My intent is not to "jump you". My intent is to simply state if you feel you must speak with the family that it might be best to contact Beth. You have Jug's opinion but does he speak for Beth? I don't know that answer.

Like Anna and NJ Son's Mom indicated, if it were me, I would not be calling or emailing the family about every inch of this debate. That is my personal choice and yes, you and I differ in that regard.

Agreeing to disagree is what adults do. I did not insult or jump you.

None,

I believe the problem is those who no longer want to be here also don't want to allow us to have or voice our own opinions.  Mention Kyle and Kermit and here they come.  I don't know what LDSLou's role in this is.  I have no problem with her opinions, but she cannot seem to allow us to have a discussion about ours without bashing Kermit.

And.Why is that?

IMHO somebody at CnG is feeding her crap.  She obviously isn't answering them all herself, because it appears she's not even reading the whole message she's responding too.  Shame, because I liked her.

If she is friends with anyone at CnG that is self-explanatory to me.After Kermit posting that people are sending personal information to Aruba is dispicable to say the least.If you are going to associate yourself with such behaviour.You get NO respect from me!That's just my opinion!

KEEPTHEFAITH

THE PRODICAL SON
Luke 15:11-32 (NLT):

+++++++

Keepthefaith

I don't condone but I understand how some can be influenced.

When my eldest son was in his late teens ... it was all about friends ... friends that influenced him that his parents were controlling and ... his welling-being was not their utmost concern.  With a heavy heart ... at the age of 21 ... he was asked to leave the home.

It did not happen over night but ... over a period of time he did grow a brain ... over a period of time he did mature ... over a period of time his relationship strengthened with his famiy  and ... over a period of time he came to his senses and ... returned to the those whose prayers for this young man continued without ceasing. 

I do not understand.  However ... many Monkeys at CnG are not trolls.  From the getgo ... they have stood behind the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevailing.  They have stood behind a family who has been forced to ride an ongoing roller coaster from H--- ... compliments of the "powers that be" in Aruba.

Keepthefaith ... challenging the lies encompassing the current positions of these CnG members is crucial but ... the door must be kept open for them to return to the cage.  I believe with all my heart that something akin to the Prodical Son of the Scriptures ... something akin to my prodical son ... some CnG Natalee Holloway members will come to their senses.

IMO

Janet

I have no problem forgiving,as well as welcoming people back.To stand by people that are disseminating ones personal information to Aruba is reprehensible!

[sharon]

ldstlou

My intent is not to "jump you". My intent is to simply state if you feel you must speak with the family that it might be best to contact Beth. You have Jug's opinion but does he speak for Beth? I don't know that answer.

Like Anna and NJ Son's Mom indicated, if it were me, I would not be calling or emailing the family about every inch of this debate. That is my personal choice and yes, you and I differ in that regard.

Agreeing to disagree is what adults do. I did not insult or jump you.

Hiya!

I strongly 'caution' you.

I had the nerve to ask that question originally, from the same person actually -- and let's just say the 'meltdown' was not pretty. And reinforcements even arrived 

[Lifesong]

THE PRODICAL SON
Luke 15:11-32 (NLT):

+++++++

Keepthefaith

I don't condone but I understand how some can be influenced.

When my eldest son was in his late teens ... it was all about friends ... friends that influenced him that his parents were controlling and ... his welling-being was not their utmost concern.  With a heavy heart ... at the age of 21 ... he was asked to leave the home.

It did not happen over night but ... over a period of time he did grow a brain ... over a period of time he did mature ... over a period of time his relationship strengthened with his famiy  and ... over a period of time he came to his senses and ... returned to the those whose prayers for this young man continued without ceasing. 

I do not understand.  However ... many Monkeys at CnG are not trolls.  From the getgo ... they have stood behind the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevailing.  They have stood behind a family who has been forced to ride an ongoing roller coaster from H--- ... compliments of the "powers that be" in Aruba.

Keepthefaith ... challenging the lies encompassing the current positions of these CnG members is crucial but ... the door must be kept open for them to return to the cage.  I believe with all my heart that something akin to the Prodical Son of the Scriptures ... something akin to my prodical son ... some CnG Natalee Holloway members will come to their senses.

IMO

Janet

Thank you for that, Janet.

I must say, I learn a little something from you everyday.

 

To those many monkeys at CnG that Janet is referring to above who are not trolls, I apologize if I have offended you.

Patience is surely one thing that NH monkeys have learned to have in abundance.  I'll be relying on mine going forward.

[sharon]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Lifesong]

To any that are trolls, I don't apologize at all!   

    

[Tamikosmom]

ldstlou

My intent is not to "jump you". My intent is to simply state if you feel you must speak with the family that it might be best to contact Beth. You have Jug's opinion but does he speak for Beth? I don't know that answer.

Like Anna and NJ Son's Mom indicated, if it were me, I would not be calling or emailing the family about every inch of this debate. That is my personal choice and yes, you and I differ in that regard.

Agreeing to disagree is what adults do. I did not insult or jump you.

None,

I believe the problem is those who no longer want to be here also don't want to allow us to have or voice our own opinions.  Mention Kyle and Kermit and here they come.  I don't know what LDSLou's role in this is.  I have no problem with her opinions, but she cannot seem to allow us to have a discussion about ours without bashing Kermit.

And.Why is that?

IMHO somebody at CnG is feeding her crap.  She obviously isn't answering them all herself, because it appears she's not even reading the whole message she's responding too.  Shame, because I liked her.

If she is friends with anyone at CnG that is self-explanatory to me.After Kermit posting that people are sending personal information to Aruba is dispicable to say the least.If you are going to associate yourself with such behaviour.You get NO respect from me!That's just my opinion!

KEEPTHEFAITH

THE PRODICAL SON
Luke 15:11-32 (NLT):

+++++++

Keepthefaith

I don't condone but I understand how some can be influenced.

When my eldest son was in his late teens ... it was all about friends ... friends that influenced him that his parents were controlling and ... his welling-being was not their utmost concern.  With a heavy heart ... at the age of 21 ... he was asked to leave the home.

It did not happen over night but ... over a period of time he did grow a brain ... over a period of time he did mature ... over a period of time his relationship strengthened with his famiy  and ... over a period of time he came to his senses and ... returned to the those whose prayers for this young man continued without ceasing. 

I do not understand.  However ... many Monkeys at CnG are not trolls.  From the getgo ... they have stood behind the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevailing.  They have stood behind a family who has been forced to ride an ongoing roller coaster from H--- ... compliments of the "powers that be" in Aruba.

Keepthefaith ... challenging the lies encompassing the current positions of these CnG members is crucial but ... the door must be kept open for them to return to the cage.  I believe with all my heart that something akin to the Prodical Son of the Scriptures ... something akin to my prodical son ... some CnG Natalee Holloway members will come to their senses.

IMO

Janet

I have no problem forgiving,as well as welcoming people back.To stand by people that are disseminating ones personal information to Aruba is reprehensible!

I agree and ... I believe that the words of those posts must be challenged.

I attempt ... but often fail ... to separate the words of posts which I might disagree with ... with those who post.  Considering that many CnG posters are part of the Monkey family ... stay focused on condemning the content ... not posters.  This leaves the door open for their return to the cage.

However ... trolls are open season.  They never were part of the Monkey family.  From the getgo ... they have attempted to distract from the truth encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Mods ... Klaas

I began stuttering when I came to the end of my last post.

 

Please edit accordingly.

Thanks

Janet

[Lifesong]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

[Keepthefaith]

ldstlou

My intent is not to "jump you". My intent is to simply state if you feel you must speak with the family that it might be best to contact Beth. You have Jug's opinion but does he speak for Beth? I don't know that answer.

Like Anna and NJ Son's Mom indicated, if it were me, I would not be calling or emailing the family about every inch of this debate. That is my personal choice and yes, you and I differ in that regard.

Agreeing to disagree is what adults do. I did not insult or jump you.

None,

I believe the problem is those who no longer want to be here also don't want to allow us to have or voice our own opinions.  Mention Kyle and Kermit and here they come.  I don't know what LDSLou's role in this is.  I have no problem with her opinions, but she cannot seem to allow us to have a discussion about ours without bashing Kermit.

And.Why is that?

IMHO somebody at CnG is feeding her crap.  She obviously isn't answering them all herself, because it appears she's not even reading the whole message she's responding too.  Shame, because I liked her.

If she is friends with anyone at CnG that is self-explanatory to me.After Kermit posting that people are sending personal information to Aruba is dispicable to say the least.If you are going to associate yourself with such behaviour.You get NO respect from me!That's just my opinion!

KEEPTHEFAITH

THE PRODICAL SON
Luke 15:11-32 (NLT):

+++++++

Keepthefaith

I don't condone but I understand how some can be influenced.

When my eldest son was in his late teens ... it was all about friends ... friends that influenced him that his parents were controlling and ... his welling-being was not their utmost concern.  With a heavy heart ... at the age of 21 ... he was asked to leave the home.

It did not happen over night but ... over a period of time he did grow a brain ... over a period of time he did mature ... over a period of time his relationship strengthened with his famiy  and ... over a period of time he came to his senses and ... returned to the those whose prayers for this young man continued without ceasing. 

I do not understand.  However ... many Monkeys at CnG are not trolls.  From the getgo ... they have stood behind the contention that a corrupt Aruban investigation was preventing justice from prevailing.  They have stood behind a family who has been forced to ride an ongoing roller coaster from H--- ... compliments of the "powers that be" in Aruba.

Keepthefaith ... challenging the lies encompassing the current positions of these CnG members is crucial but ... the door must be kept open for them to return to the cage.  I believe with all my heart that something akin to the Prodical Son of the Scriptures ... something akin to my prodical son ... some CnG Natalee Holloway members will come to their senses.

IMO

Janet

I have no problem forgiving,as well as welcoming people back.To stand by people that are disseminating ones personal information to Aruba is reprehensible!

I agree and ... I believe that the words of those posts must be challenged.

I attempt ... but often fail ... to separate the words of posts which I might disagree with ... with those who post.  Considering that many CnG posters are part of the Monkey family ... stay focused on condemning the content ... not posters.  This leaves the door open for their return to the cage.

However ... trolls are open season.  They never were part of the Monkey family.  From the getgo ... they have attempted to distract from the truth encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005.

 

Janet

From the posts of former CnG member's.If your not toeing the party line your poofed!So how are you a memeber and not toeing the party line.

[Keepthefaith]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

Me personally.I don't trust CapsLockWizard.Prove me wrong.Until then.I stand firm!

[sharon]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

But, if he did really dive --  a boat would have had to take him out to the dive location. It was not right off shore.

How did the boat know where to go??

That's sort of a 'needle in the haystack' analogy. Someone HAD to have given CAPS or the Boat driver the location of the cage. WHO WOULD KNOW THAT other than the crew of the Persistence or ALE

Am I the only one that finds that hinky??

Don't worry -- I'm used to hearing 'yes' 
.

[Lifesong]

KTF - I agree with you.

[jen3560]

But, if he did really dive --  a boat would have had to take him out to the dive location. It was not right off shore.

How did the boat know where to go??

That's sort of a 'needle in the haystack' analogy. Someone HAD to have given CAPS or the Boat driver the location of the cage. WHO WOULD KNOW THAT other than the crew of the Persistence or ALE

Am I the only one that finds that hinky??

Don't worry -- I'm used to hearing 'yes' 
.

Yes.







Just kidding dear!!!!! 

that is most definitely hinky. Especially after we were told that all target locations were kept in a "safe, locked location, only known by two people"

[Lifesong]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

But, if he did really dive --  a boat would have had to take him out to the dive location. It was not right off shore.

How did the boat know where to go??

That's sort of a 'needle in the haystack' analogy. Someone HAD to have given CAPS or the Boat driver the location of the cage. WHO WOULD KNOW THAT other than the crew of the Persistence or ALE

Am I the only one that finds that hinky??

Don't worry -- I'm used to hearing 'yes' 
.

I think it would be hinky if we didn't already know/believe that Caps is associated with ALE/AHATA.  Was Clyde Burke driving the boat?


Word of the Day:  Hinky
 

[Keepthefaith]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

But, if he did really dive --  a boat would have had to take him out to the dive location. It was not right off shore.

How did the boat know where to go??

That's sort of a 'needle in the haystack' analogy. Someone HAD to have given CAPS or the Boat driver the location of the cage. WHO WOULD KNOW THAT other than the crew of the Persistence or ALE

Am I the only one that finds that hinky??

Don't worry -- I'm used to hearing 'yes' 
.

I think it would be hinky if we didn't already know/believe that Caps is associated with ALE/AHATA.  Was Clyde Burke driving the boat?


Word of the Day:  Hinky
 

You may be on to something Lifesong!

[sharon]

oh, how i miss you

 

What would CAPS gain by saying it, if not true? All he was saying was that the cage was still there. To disprove there is any interest in it.

He basically admitted that ?someone? 'inside' gave him the cage location 

Safe keeping my monkey hiney 

{{{hugs}}}

[Magnolia]

I think that Kyle posted something about an underwater vacuum
that could be taken to the cage and possible DNA retrieved from
the site.
I have wondered if Caps went there (if he actually did) to make
sure that there was nothing to vacuum up.

[Tamikosmom]

I find it very telling that they stayed for 4 months and the only human dive was the one done on the cage, which Silvetti & Trehan claim contained nothing.

I have not heard of any action by Beth or Dave (or Jug) to 'fund' the dives for the remaining 100+ 'viable' targets.

I also find that odd.

And I asked this before - but I'll ask again -- how EXACTLY did CAPS know where to dive to find the cage????

In other words -- who gave him the coordinates of the location?? Or was he swimming around in 90' of ocean water and stumbled upon it??

Inquiring minds want to know.

CapsLockWizard
"Another thing , I went to dive a week a go to the same location, and the Cage is still there. If the cage was evidance in a murder case, why is it still in the water."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564838#msg564838

Of course, this is same post in which Caps said: "on the opening a business in Aruba... no way true. Need an Arubian Partner and the Business law for AVV or ofshore business registered in Aruba is not benefecial." 

And didn't I just see information and links posted in the last day or two that proved that to be untrue?  Is it possible he doesn't dive at all and was just making it up?  Of course, it's possible...
 

CAPS does not get it or ... maybe he does.

The cage/trap and its contents was disregarded by the "powers that be" in Aruba as not case related.  However ... if CAPS is to be believed ... the "nothing but plastic bags" that John Silvetti claimed was in the trap/cage was sampled and recovered.

I can only assume that Kyle Kingman (ROV Image Analyst), Tim Trahan (American Diver) and Louis Shaefer (ROV Copyright) are attempting to make deals with major networks for the sale of ROV images that reveal a cage/trap containing "nothing but plastic bags".

GMAB!

Sooooo ... CAPS is a diver.  Innnnteeeeresting.

Janet

++++++

CAPS - IN HIS OWN WORDS

CAPS:  John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice.


KYLE KINGMAN (ROV IMAGE ANALYST) - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:  The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle:   John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.

[Tamikosmom]

Mods ... Klaas

It is me again ... Tamikosmom.

The pink highlight in my last post should have been red.

For clarity ... please edit.

I apologize.

Janet

Done.   

[Keepthefaith]

Jen.How many offices did GeoLab have before the Persistence search in Aruba and after??Just curious.If you know.TIA