Natalee Case Discussion #797 1/30/09 - 2/1/09

[Tamikosmom]

They all asked where I went, so I told them.  It's not about my drama, just explaining where I went to.  I do go to the events yes, and I am not attacking Kermit for what she thinks happened.  I am atacking because she is not telling all.  Kyle went to them to share his adventure, and ask what he should do.  He went to them in confidence.  Not to be posted all over the internet, and ruin his chances for future jobs in his proffession.  His own words WERE taken out of context, and yes there was an FBI guy he was working with.  He has been taken off the case, and he was as corrupt as the Arubans.  As far as the family goes, I know Dave is hating what is going on also.  Its not just the attacks its the whole thing.  SM is not SM anymore.  its a circus with name calling and such.  We ALL are seeking justice, in differnet ways, and they know that.  They really do know that.  They knew what I was doing before I did it.  They know most of all we talk about.  For you certain people who dont respect me anymore is fine.  I did what I did with the OK of family.  I sent them all I knew, and all I thought was of good concern.  Dave didnt give anyone his number, he just unplugged the phone.  He still has cells, and other ways to talk with him, as HE told me.  I have talked with him and he is sick.  Cant you guys just get to a normal way of being the way you were just for the sake of the family, without bashing everyone who has a different view?

Hotshot

Do you not read.  Do you not comprehend.

Why are you not directing your anger at Kyle Kingman rather than the messenger?  It was Kyle Kingman who failed to report his observations regarding the events encompassing the recovery of the contents of the trap/cage to the FBI.

The Natalee's Freebirds are all about exposing the corrupt Aruban investigation.  Do you that that this group of dedicated researchers would have gone along with confidentiality agreement it they thought for one minute that Kyle Kingman was not going to to what he initially stated he was going to do ... share all with the FBI ... share all with Beth Holloway ... expose the finale' to the great Aruban cover up.

Somewhere along the way ... Kyle Kingman had a change of heart.  His own self-interest became what it was all about ... not exposing John Silvetti's betrayal to the family of Natalee Holloway.

Hotshot ... which words of jen ... Former Administrator of the Natalee's Freebirds' Site ... do you not understand.

Janet

++++++


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
 
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Nut44x4]

I may not be around for the lock today. Depends on how much goes on in here lol

[always 1]

I for one, dont believe that was Natalee in the trap.  Boys killed Natalee, men disposed of her.  It does look like someone was in the trap, however.  It does look more like a cap than a skirt.  Paulus lived on the island, he would know that there was oil beneath the water, he would know that someday they would chart the ocean floor.  Why would you put Natalee in a solid object where she could always be found??? What if she had been discovered a week later, a month later.  I would excpect that was someone who got in the way of a drug deal.  Why didnt the things in the plastic bags look like the original things pictured in the cage???  Why was FBI not on the ship to recover the remains???  Or were they???  In my opinion, Natalee was put somewhere else, where she could never be recovered.  Mine shaft, cremation, etc.  What about the bag that Blonde depicts????  That so looks like Natalee.  Ok, I am going to Church, you all can pick this apart and I will come back later and read it.    love to the family A1.

[Tamikosmom]

These are the perpetrators in this case:



Caps, OE and even Kermit were/are just trying to get to the truth.
The problem is that some people having difficulties to stay humble and that they enjoy the fact that some people make them to important, unfortunately(and i exclude Kyle here)

1.Kermit-posted nothing but the truth backed up by the Freebirds,as well as Kyle!
2.Kyle-Potentially an accessory to obstruction of justice.Backed up by his own words,as well as actions.
3.CapsLockWizard-Has posted many false statements regarding this case!

And you call Kermit the fraud!

Kyle`s own words were ripped off their context by her. That`s my answer to you and to Janet.

sincerely, Bastian.

I don't know you, so I'm not 'too' offended that you are insuating that I am a liar 


There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

There is no other 'context' for Kyle's words.

Sharon ... you are right.

Taking out of context or not ... Kyle Kingman's words speak for themselves ... they can stand alone ... they tell a story of betrayal of Natalee Holloways family of an American name John Silvetti.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

I for one, dont believe that was Natalee in the trap.  Boys killed Natalee, men disposed of her.  It does look like someone was in the trap, however.  It does look more like a cap than a skirt.  Paulus lived on the island, he would know that there was oil beneath the water, he would know that someday they would chart the ocean floor.  Why would you put Natalee in a solid object where she could always be found??? What if she had been discovered a week later, a month later.  I would excpect that was someone who got in the way of a drug deal.  Why didnt the things in the plastic bags look like the original things pictured in the cage???  Why was FBI not on the ship to recover the remains???  Or were they???  In my opinion, Natalee was put somewhere else, where she could never be recovered.  Mine shaft, cremation, etc.  What about the bag that Blonde depicts????  That so looks like Natalee.  Ok, I am going to Church, you all can pick this apart and I will come back later and read it.    love to the family A1.

A1 ... I trust Kyle Kingman's expertise in regards to ROV image analyzing  His qualifications are above reproach.  If Kyle claims that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that cage ... then I believe that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that cage until proven otherwise

Then there are his own words regarding his sincere concern regarding the recovery process ...

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:    The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:  I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle:   John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Professional Qualifications
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area
 
Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Industry
Oil & Energy
_______
 
Kyle Kingman’s Summary

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:
 
Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[Lifesong]

I'm way back on page 29, trying to catch up.

Klaas, when you get a minute could you post the ole' monkey bus?  I've searched and searched and can't find it...have you ever looked at the intimidating number of pages of your posts?  Yikes!!  

 

Thank you in advance!

[Tamikosmom]

Well ... I am off for the day Monkeys.

I do believe I heard a collective sigh of relief from the CnG site?

 

Church this morning and ... then picking up daughter and family in their van from Vancouver International.

 

The gang has been gone two weeks on a Disneyworld vacation and ... that was 1 1/2 weeks too long in my opinion.

Later, Janet

[Vicki]

Im sitting here crying my eyes out..I know that the family must be sooo hurting for all the fighting and bickering...Poor Natalee up in heaven looking down at us...Please lets all try and get along and stick to getting JUSTICE for NATALEE and her family...Ids was at the travel show on her feet all day along with 9 others being Natalees voice...handing out brocheres and prayer cards telling Natalee story...I dont want to get in the middle of who is right and who is wrong, cause I know we all love Natalee...but please lets all just try and get along for the sake of the family..I admire everyone who is still fighting to get answers no matter how its done....Alot has happened in almost 4 years...but we are all still here trying to help..I just love you all and want answers as I know you all do to...anyway, the BOYCOTT TRAVEL SHOW was a HUGE success and pictures will be forth coming....got to run but PEACE to you all....

[Vicki]

PS Tamikosmom..Love to you and your family....

[Edward]

I for one, don't believe that was Natalee in the trap.  Boys killed Natalee, men disposed of her.  It does look like someone was in the trap, however.  It does look more like a cap than a skirt.  Paulus lived on the island, he would know that there was oil beneath the water, he would know that someday they would chart the ocean floor.  Why would you put Natalee in a solid object where she could always be found??? What if she had been discovered a week later, a month later.  I would expect that was someone who got in the way of a drug deal.  Why didn't the things in the plastic bags look like the original things pictured in the cage???  Why was FBI not on the ship to recover the remains???  Or were they???  In my opinion, Natalee was put somewhere else, where she could never be recovered.  Mine shaft, cremation, etc.  What about the bag that Blonde depicts????  That so looks like Natalee.  Ok, I am going to Church, you all can pick this apart and I will come back later and read it.    love to the family A1.

Mine shaft
I am am happy somebody is paying attention.. I hope you had the opportunity to read the pdf I posted last week. Where a Ohio state university group went to Aruba early on in this case and did a full geological study of the island clearly showing the mine shafts on Aruba and how far down they are and how much water is in them.. A perfect disposal site
 It is by far the most likely place where the body was put after it was retrieved from the landfill after Dave was kicked out of the landfill.
Thank-God for Common sense..

There was something in the trap..but who knows what.. Not Our Natalee .. Waste of time looking for villain's in that story.
jmho 

[texasmom]

Well ... I am off for the day Monkeys.

I do believe I heard a collective sigh of relief from the CnG site?

 

Church this morning and ... then picking up daughter and family in their van from Vancouver International.

 

The gang has been gone two weeks on a Disneyworld vacation and ... that was 1 1/2 weeks too long in my opinion.

Later, Janet

Have a great day Janet!  I'm glad the family is finally coming home, I know you've missed them!  Thanks for all you do!

Hugs,
tm

[Blue Moon]

I for one am very interested to see pictures and hear the stories to be told about the show.  Thanks to Lou and Vickie for being a voice for Natalee and her family.

Off to Tennessee but will look forward to reading about the show when I return.

Have a good day.

[texasmom]

I for one am very interested to see pictures and hear the stories to be told about the show.  Thanks to Lou and Vickie for being a voice for Natalee and her family.

Off to Tennessee but will look forward to reading about the show when I return.

Have a good day.

Drive safe, and have a good trip Blue Moon!   

[klaasend]

I'm way back on page 29, trying to catch up.

Klaas, when you get a minute could you post the ole' monkey bus?  I've searched and searched and can't find it...have you ever looked at the intimidating number of pages of your posts?  Yikes!!  

 

Thank you in advance!

[Edward]

The bus is so cool..
Beth was holding a quilt made for her by a BFN member in a book signing.. I am on the quilt and it made me feel good to see Beth holding it..
I hope you all put that in a frame and send it to her too.

[klaasend]

The bus is so cool..
Beth was holding a quilt made for her by a BFN member in a book signing.. I am on the quilt and it made me feel good to see Beth holding it..
I hope you all put that in a frame and send it to her too.

I must be having a photobucket problem.  Can you see the bus I posted above or do you see nothing?

[Vicki]

I see it Klaas...

[Lifesong]

The bus is so cool..
Beth was holding a quilt made for her by a BFN member in a book signing.. I am on the quilt and it made me feel good to see Beth holding it..
I hope you all put that in a frame and send it to her too.

I must be having a photobucket problem.  Can you see the bus I posted above or do you see nothing?

I can see & thanks so much!

Do you happen to know approx. when the bus was finished / month/year approximation?  It's not terribly important, I'd just like to have it.

Thanks again!

[Lifesong]

Nevermind, Klaas!  I see it in the file name 8/11/05.

Much appreciated.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I can see it, Klaas.

Good morning, everyone.