Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09

[texasmom]

Good morning 2NJSons_Mom, nonesuche, BoxerDawg, can, nimrod, Ree and 4 Guests!

[hotping]

Good morning 2NJSons_Mom, nonesuche, BoxerDawg, can, nimrod, Ree and 4 Guests!

Good Morning TM!

[MuffyBee]

Good morning texasmom

Happy Groundhog Day everyone.   

[nonesuche]

Good morning Texasmom

[hotping]

Good morning texasmom

Happy Groundhog Day everyone.   

Good Morning MuffyBee...6 More Weeks of Winter so the Groundhog says!

[texasmom]

Good morning Hotping and Muffybee!

I had a feeling we had more winter in store!   

[can]

Good morning Texasmom!  Good morning everyone!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good morning, everyone.  I was reading what I missed since logging off last night.   

[hotping]

OK...Don't throw Nanners at Me I just thought some My like to read this..

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20090201/Inside+Story+Joseph+Tacopina

  

[nimrod]

ktf, I think you misunderstood nimrod.  I think maybe nimrod meant that we will probably never get to the bottom of what happened with the cage, and it would be a shame for us to be accusing the Americans on the Persistence of a coverup, if that is not true.    As far as we know, the family is very appreciative of Schaefer and Silvetti for the search, and consider them heroes.  The search would likely never would have happened without them.  There can't be that many vessels, and that many people with access to the equipment who would do something like this.  I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  They gave their time and money and maybe they tried their best and they just didn't succeed and there is no coverup.

I do not think for one minute that Beth Holloway would have given the Natalee's Freebirds' permission to expose Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that imply the John Silvetti was a participant in the great Aruban coverup ... if she considered Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti "heros".

Janet

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

[nimrod]

Good morning 2NJSons_Mom, nonesuche, BoxerDawg, can, nimrod, Ree and 4 Guests!

Good morning Texasmom. I'm a Texasgrandad. Do we know each other?

[wreck]

ktf, I think you misunderstood nimrod.  I think maybe nimrod meant that we will probably never get to the bottom of what happened with the cage, and it would be a shame for us to be accusing the Americans on the Persistence of a coverup, if that is not true.    As far as we know, the family is very appreciative of Schaefer and Silvetti for the search, and consider them heroes.  The search would likely never would have happened without them.  There can't be that many vessels, and that many people with access to the equipment who would do something like this.  I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  They gave their time and money and maybe they tried their best and they just didn't succeed and there is no coverup.

I do not think for one minute that Beth Holloway would have given the Natalee's Freebirds' permission to expose Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that imply the John Silvetti was a participant in the great Aruban coverup ... if she considered Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti "heros".

Janet

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

The family has had 2 months since this was released to "back away" from what Kermit has revealed. I have heard nothing.

[nimrod]

ktf, I think you misunderstood nimrod.  I think maybe nimrod meant that we will probably never get to the bottom of what happened with the cage, and it would be a shame for us to be accusing the Americans on the Persistence of a coverup, if that is not true.    As far as we know, the family is very appreciative of Schaefer and Silvetti for the search, and consider them heroes.  The search would likely never would have happened without them.  There can't be that many vessels, and that many people with access to the equipment who would do something like this.  I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  They gave their time and money and maybe they tried their best and they just didn't succeed and there is no coverup.

I do not think for one minute that Beth Holloway would have given the Natalee's Freebirds' permission to expose Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that imply the John Silvetti was a participant in the great Aruban coverup ... if she considered Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti "heros".

Janet

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

The family has had 2 months since this was released to "back away" from what Kermit has revealed. I have heard nothing.

I understand, but, how would they do that?

[texasmom]

Good morning 2NJSons_Mom, nonesuche, BoxerDawg, can, nimrod, Ree and 4 Guests!

Good morning Texasmom. I'm a Texasgrandad. Do we know each other?

It's a small world nimrod, maybe so!  

[texasmom]

OK...Don't throw Nanners at Me I just thought some My like to read this..

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20090201/Inside+Story+Joseph+Tacopina

  

Incoming!!!!  Naw just kidding...Thanks Hotping! 

[wreck]

ktf, I think you misunderstood nimrod.  I think maybe nimrod meant that we will probably never get to the bottom of what happened with the cage, and it would be a shame for us to be accusing the Americans on the Persistence of a coverup, if that is not true.    As far as we know, the family is very appreciative of Schaefer and Silvetti for the search, and consider them heroes.  The search would likely never would have happened without them.  There can't be that many vessels, and that many people with access to the equipment who would do something like this.  I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  They gave their time and money and maybe they tried their best and they just didn't succeed and there is no coverup.

I do not think for one minute that Beth Holloway would have given the Natalee's Freebirds' permission to expose Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that imply the John Silvetti was a participant in the great Aruban coverup ... if she considered Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti "heros".

Janet

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

The family has had 2 months since this was released to "back away" from what Kermit has revealed. I have heard nothing.

I understand, but, how would they do that?

By simply telling someone they know to relay the message here. Very simple.

[hotping]

OK...Don't throw Nanners at Me I just thought some My like to read this..

http://www.nypost.com/pagesixmag/issues/20090201/Inside+Story+Joseph+Tacopina

  

Incoming!!!!  Naw just kidding...Thanks Hotping! 

 

[nimrod]

ktf, I think you misunderstood nimrod.  I think maybe nimrod meant that we will probably never get to the bottom of what happened with the cage, and it would be a shame for us to be accusing the Americans on the Persistence of a coverup, if that is not true.    As far as we know, the family is very appreciative of Schaefer and Silvetti for the search, and consider them heroes.  The search would likely never would have happened without them.  There can't be that many vessels, and that many people with access to the equipment who would do something like this.  I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  They gave their time and money and maybe they tried their best and they just didn't succeed and there is no coverup.

I do not think for one minute that Beth Holloway would have given the Natalee's Freebirds' permission to expose Kyle Kingman's own words ... words that imply the John Silvetti was a participant in the great Aruban coverup ... if she considered Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti "heros".

Janet

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

The family has had 2 months since this was released to "back away" from what Kermit has revealed. I have heard nothing.

I understand, but, how would they do that?

By simply telling someone they know to relay the message here. Very simple.

Maybe they have. I don't know. (Nothing is simple, is it?)

[Magnolia]

Beth knows how to contact Red and I am sure that she would
have done so if something displeased her.

[Monkey Mia]

Reminder that the superimposed picture of Natalee was done by KYLE:

The question is if remains were found in the trap, whos?

42 Inch Diagonal Seems to Work

With an allowance for knee drop off -- height of superimposed image would be 36 inches.  Add 18 for knee to heel.  54 inches. 

Estimated and must allow for poor photo re pro, distance changes underwater, decomposition if applicable.

Natalee = 64 inches in height.

Nice work Klaas.

Looks like it makes reasonable tolerances.

.

Klaasend, Thank you for reposting the photos. 

Lifesong, I wanted to respond with a little of my reasoning before this got too old.  I have to respectfully disagree with Kyle, Klaasend and the big hammer.  But that is what we do here.  We theorize and discuss till we prove or disprove.  First, I want you to consider a triangle with a 42" hypotenuse.  That would be approximately a triangle 30" x 30" x 42".  Lay it out on your bed or floor and see how much of your body fits in it.  My height is the same as Natalee's and I can't get much more than my head in it.  Now if the trap is a 7' 700 pound trap like the Alaskan crab fishermen use http://www.fishex.com/galleries/king-crab-fishing/photo-gallery.html you can enlarge that triangle in one grid to 42" x 42" x 60".  Even that is not enough space to put most of Natalee's body, you could maybe get head to butt.  Size is important, and no reference is given, so how can anyone say without a doubt, but it doesn't seem practical to me. 

That link to the photo gallery also shows what size vessel and crane would be necessary to move the trap.  The ship would probably have a crew of at least five.  There would have had to have been many phone calls made to arrange for that type of disposal.  Think of the money the captain would want for sacrificing his trap and fuel and paying for the silence of the crew as well.  Most people would want to keep the disposal as simple as possible.  The other possibility would be for divers to take the body down 90' and place it in the trap and they would not go out aimlessly swimming around the ocean floor looking for a lost trap. 

Now on to the ziplock evidence bags.  Here in the states we would expect photos to be taken of the scene before during and after evidence removal.  Something of know size should be placed next to the objects.  All trained divers carry a knife and that would have been convenient to place as comparison.  I need to see those photographs.  Here is an article that speaks to the quality of underwater photograhy.  http://www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/water.htm  These photos, we are to assume, were all taken with the ROV.  I would not expect the same sharpness you would get with a well lit digital photograph.  I find it hard to beleive the clarity.