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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09  (Read 175542 times)
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Anna
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« Reply #380 on: February 02, 2009, 01:02:30 PM »

OK, I am still thinking about this.

What would be the advantage of remains being found in the pond over being found in the trap?

The new witness or two for corroboration?
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« Reply #381 on: February 02, 2009, 01:02:45 PM »

But there was an article in one of the local newspapers about the sonar search so everybody already knew all about it.

Right!

IMO - it's because someone was supposed to be here at Sm discussing "oh wow, they're draining and searching the pond" when that never ever actually happened.

Right, it didn't rain for over two months and that pond is really more of a collection site for rain run off so it just dried up as it seasonally does.

But why were we supposed to think it was a big deal and then nothing was found?

Correct.  That pond dries up on its own periodically.  It had been dry one other time (twice?  I can't remember now) between June 2005 and March 2008.

I don't know that we were supposed to think nothing was found - I distinctly remember scuttlebut from (I think) Jossy about a shoe having been found?

And Caps was claiming that a shoe and human remains WOULD BE found there.

So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?
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« Reply #382 on: February 02, 2009, 01:06:50 PM »

OK, I am still thinking about this.

What would be the advantage of remains being found in the pond over being found in the trap?

The new witness or two for corroboration?

While this is purely speculation on my part..........

One advantage would be the removal (from the cage) of the evidence required to support Joran's confession to Patrick - thus removing any possibility of a conviction of Paulus van der Sloot's son.

If identifiable remains were found someplace OTHER than the sea, that would, in effect, help to let Joran off the hook - would it not?

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jen3560
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« Reply #383 on: February 02, 2009, 01:08:01 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.
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« Reply #384 on: February 02, 2009, 01:12:14 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't know.The monkey in the wrench is Eduardo Mansur!JMOO
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« Reply #385 on: February 02, 2009, 01:14:27 PM »

From Oceanexplorer...

21   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -  on: May 14, 2008, 01:26:56 PM 
Greetings,

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   
All the best
************************

If they didn't search the pond, who did?


They did search the pond on otfer of Hans Mos. Hans even give Order to DOW. (department of Public work) to clean it up and to put a chain around the entrance with a sing saying "No Traspassing " "Verboeden Toegang"

Now after the side scan, John was coordinating with the the OM and ALE to arrange to Pump it emty, but the OM did not lift a finger.
then the OM put a sign and make it prohibid to go to the area.
then when it was dried, the OM stop all activities that where scheduled on the scoccer field and moved them to other fields.
then in the wee hours in the mornings for 3 nights the light where on and from good source the message was clear, it is being search when everyone was as sleep.

Then the ligths never came on anymore. and the soccer ares is almost not used.

hope to clear this fact up.




Hi Caps.  How to explain this statement by OE also.  Contradicts the other post:

 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08  on: May 16, 2008, 08:59:01 AM

I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received.
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search.
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.
- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

The people that came from holland to do the investigation was on a run of the other possible areas that they might have gone (the Kapoes) and where on these 4 wheelers used by the Polis Department. The ALE who provided the info was with them and his job was to show them arround.

The pond had tires, fridge and bottles alot of debries in it. When the water was left to the center, I wnet to see it but could not walk on the moth since is was still sticking to shoes end was very soft. there where a lot of debries but one can not just walk to the center where there was still water.

When It dried up, I called John and let him know that it is all dried up and that that he need to come down to see it for himslef and he did come doen but left in 2 days.

Then came the investigators from Hollands and after that, Mos give order to clean it up.

I went to to look at it and to my surprise it was cleaned up but one can see also that they replaced some area with fresh sands. The are in question is near the 2 black large tubes. They have not clean it completly, there was still a large tire and some other debires and those where at the other end of the pond, the shallow area.

when you examine the whole pond, it is in these dry clay formations like a tiles and one can see the areas that was distrubed. Otherthing, where is the debries that was in there dumped, nobody knows when asked asked.

The excuese was it needed to be clean in prepartion for the huracain season, I check all the others that where also dried up but was never cleaned.

so that sums it up

I never met with John when he came. but he did met with the Withness.

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Anna
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« Reply #386 on: February 02, 2009, 01:15:12 PM »

OK, I am still thinking about this.

What would be the advantage of remains being found in the pond over being found in the trap?

The new witness or two for corroboration?

While this is purely speculation on my part..........

One advantage would be the removal (from the cage) of the evidence required to support Joran's confession to Patrick - thus removing any possibility of a conviction of Paulus van der Sloot's son.

If identifiable remains were found someplace OTHER than the sea, that would, in effect, help to let Joran off the hook - would it not?




I'm not sure.  Not if there is/was a witness or two placing Joran wet and in the vicinity of the pond that night.

Joran would still be implicated, just different disposal location?

Wasn't it Silvetti who got the witness to the U.S. and got polygraphs? 

Are there two witnesses involved in the pond story?

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« Reply #387 on: February 02, 2009, 01:21:59 PM »

OK, I am still thinking about this.

What would be the advantage of remains being found in the pond over being found in the trap?

The new witness or two for corroboration?

While this is purely speculation on my part..........

One advantage would be the removal (from the cage) of the evidence required to support Joran's confession to Patrick - thus removing any possibility of a conviction of Paulus van der Sloot's son.

If identifiable remains were found someplace OTHER than the sea, that would, in effect, help to let Joran off the hook - would it not?




I'm not sure.  Not if there is/was a witness or two placing Joran wet and in the vicinity of the pond that night.

Joran would still be implicated, just different disposal location?

Wasn't it Silvetti who got the witness to the U.S. and got polygraphs? 

Are there two witnesses involved in the pond story?



That is a good point Anna.

But considering the witness couldn't keep his story straight twice in a row - it's not hard to understand why/how Mos did not consider him to be credible.

And how much is a discredited witness worth?

Like I said - purely speculation on my part.

I don't yet have a firm grasp on the whole pond thing.
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Anna
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« Reply #388 on: February 02, 2009, 01:22:21 PM »

I don't think there were 40-50 investigators from Holland there and not one newspaper story about them.
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« Reply #389 on: February 02, 2009, 01:24:40 PM »

Could be a double-cross.  Plant evidence in the pond then Mos scooped it all up and made it disappear but why bother if he already had any evidence from the trap?

This is all so strange and speculative. . . . must think more on this aspect of the pond.

Strange after so long of a time that suddenly witnesses start popping up everywhere.

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« Reply #390 on: February 02, 2009, 01:27:03 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't know.The monkey in the wrench is Eduardo Mansur!JMOO

At this point would Jossy and Eduardo potentially do Paulus a favor in return for taking care of Luis and friends??Just speculating.......
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« Reply #391 on: February 02, 2009, 01:32:23 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't know.The monkey in the wrench is Eduardo Mansur!JMOO

At this point would Jossy and Eduardo potentially do Paulus a favor in return for taking care of Luis and friends??Just speculating.......

That's a good question, ktf!!!!
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jen3560
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« Reply #392 on: February 02, 2009, 01:42:43 PM »

Do any of the monkeys have the dates of Caps' posts that were written with a better grasp of the English language, and with better grammar than most of his posts?

Just curious if those dates correspond with when we know Silvetti was on/back on Aruba....
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« Reply #393 on: February 02, 2009, 01:44:51 PM »

Do any of the monkeys have the dates of Caps' posts that were written with a better grasp of the English language, and with better grammar than most of his posts?

Just curious if those dates correspond with when we know Silvetti was on/back on Aruba....

Now that would be awful!
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« Reply #394 on: February 02, 2009, 01:51:39 PM »

Do any of the monkeys have the dates of Caps' posts that were written with a better grasp of the English language, and with better grammar than most of his posts?

Just curious if those dates correspond with when we know Silvetti was on/back on Aruba....

Now that would be awful!

IIRC - he was back there sometime in March, May, and June.
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« Reply #395 on: February 02, 2009, 01:57:10 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't know.The monkey in the wrench is Eduardo Mansur!JMOO

At this point would Jossy and Eduardo potentially do Paulus a favor in return for taking care of Luis and friends??Just speculating.......

I did not want to go there.  I really did not.

 

However ... I am also beginning to think that the legal problems encompassing Jossy's sons may imply favors were offered by the "powers that be" for his cooperation.  When you consider how respected Jossy has been by the American media ... he would be the perfect player to be inserted into a distraction from the contents of that trap/cage.

The Jossy Mansur/John Silvetti connection concerns me no end.

 

Janet
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« Reply #396 on: February 02, 2009, 02:00:48 PM »

O/T but I have a point regarding some of the "suicide" hangings in Aruba:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090129/ARTICLES/901290299

River Road murder victim identified; listen to 911 call

By David Reynolds
Staff Writer


Published: Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 6:14 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 9:43 p.m.
Early Thursday, a couple driving along River Road found a young man’s body lying on the asphalt.


They called 911, turned around and got out. Alton Corey Vann, 20, of Wilmington had been shot in the head, according to a preliminary investigation by the New Hanover County Sheriff’s Office.

His body was found on a rural stretch between Independence Boulevard and Sanders Road, said office spokesman Charles Smith.

And the 911 call says the passing couple saw little around to help guide police and EMS workers to the spot.

For nine minutes, the couple, one of whom said she was a nurse, spoke with dispatchers as the woman tried to revive Vann by giving CPR. He wasn’t breathing and had no pulse, she said.

After authorities arrived, he was pronounced dead at the scene.

On Thursday afternoon authorities said Vann’s body had been sent to the state Medical Examiner’s office in Jacksonville for an autopsy.

Smith asked anyone who may have seen anything unusual while driving River Road early Thursday to call investigators at 342-2490 or 342-2484.

The investigation

Soon after the discovery at 12:38 a.m., deputies blocked off River Road between Sanders Road and Independence Boulevard, and it remained closed until 10:30 a.m.

Authorities searched for clues, Smith said at a news conference Thursday afternoon. He declined to describe any findings, but said investigators do have “strong leads” in the case.

They do not yet have a motive or a vehicle description to give the public, he said.

Authorities have received calls from citizens regarding the case, he said.

Part of the reason for the long closure, Smith said, is deputies didn’t want to stop looking for evidence until after they’d had a chance to search during daylight.

Attempted rescue

The recording of the 911 call details how two passersby tried to help Vann. All but one first name were redacted from the recording and authorities did not release that information.

“I’ve passed a man lying on the side of the road. I’m not sure if he’s alive or not,” the woman said, as the couple turned their white Nissan Altima around and returned to give assistance.

The couple passes the phone back and forth and the man wonders aloud whether the body was dumped.

He sees blood near Vann’s head and says the victim appeared to have his hands in his pockets. “I don’t understand,” the man said.

The girlfriend tells the operator she’s a nurse and as dispatchers send deputies and emergency medical workers to the scene she performs CPR. She uses a piece of paper with holes punched in it to cover Vann’s mouth while she does “rescue breathing.”

“He looks like he has a severe head injury,” she said. “I didn’t ever feel a pulse.” The woman said the man’s body still felt warm.

According to the N.C. Department of Correction Web site, Vann was convicted of multiple misdemeanors in September and November of 2005, including possessing stolen goods, carrying a concealed weapon and possession of marijuana.

Also, Vann was scheduled to appear in New Hanover County court the same morning his body was found.

His hearing was in connection with a misdemeanor charge of possessing marijuana. He was set to return to court in March to face a misdemeanor charge of assault on a female. He also had pending traffic charges, according to court records.

When asked about Vann’s record at Thursday’s news conference, Smith said little.

“It is someone’s loved one,” he said. “Regardless of past or history, no one deserves to go through what he has.”


David Reynolds: 343-2075

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #397 on: February 02, 2009, 02:04:50 PM »

Do any of the monkeys have the dates of Caps' posts that were written with a better grasp of the English language, and with better grammar than most of his posts?

Just curious if those dates correspond with when we know Silvetti was on/back on Aruba....

Now that would be awful!

IIRC - he was back there sometime in March, May, and June.

Good Morning jen.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:
  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

Janet
11:05 AM PT
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Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #398 on: February 02, 2009, 02:11:03 PM »



So would this link Caps-Silvetti-Jossy together in your opinion Jen?

Yes.  But Jossy being linked could simply be incidental.  Was he just being used as a conduit for spreading information?

I honestly have no idea.

I don't know.The monkey in the wrench is Eduardo Mansur!JMOO

At this point would Jossy and Eduardo potentially do Paulus a favor in return for taking care of Luis and friends??Just speculating.......

I did not want to go there.  I really did not.

 

However ... I am also beginning to think that the legal problems encompassing Jossy's sons may imply favors were offered by the "powers that be" for his cooperation.  When you consider how respected Jossy has been by the American media ... he would be the perfect player to be inserted into a distraction from the contents of that trap/cage.

The Jossy Mansur/John Silvetti connection concerns me no end.

 

Janet

Just pondering Janet.It is Aruba you know!Very sad indeed.
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #399 on: February 02, 2009, 02:17:46 PM »

O/T but I have a point regarding some of the "suicide" hangings in Aruba:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090129/ARTICLES/901290299

River Road murder victim identified; listen to 911 call

By David Reynolds
Staff Writer


Published: Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 6:14 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 9:43 p.m.
Early Thursday, a couple driving along River Road found a young man’s body lying on the asphalt.


They called 911, turned around and got out. Alton Corey Vann, 20, of Wilmington had been shot in the head, according to a preliminary investigation by the New Hanover County Sheriff’s Office.

His body was found on a rural stretch between Independence Boulevard and Sanders Road, said office spokesman Charles Smith.

And the 911 call says the passing couple saw little around to help guide police and EMS workers to the spot.

For nine minutes, the couple, one of whom said she was a nurse, spoke with dispatchers as the woman tried to revive Vann by giving CPR. He wasn’t breathing and had no pulse, she said.

After authorities arrived, he was pronounced dead at the scene.

On Thursday afternoon authorities said Vann’s body had been sent to the state Medical Examiner’s office in Jacksonville for an autopsy.

Smith asked anyone who may have seen anything unusual while driving River Road early Thursday to call investigators at 342-2490 or 342-2484.

The investigation

Soon after the discovery at 12:38 a.m., deputies blocked off River Road between Sanders Road and Independence Boulevard, and it remained closed until 10:30 a.m.

Authorities searched for clues, Smith said at a news conference Thursday afternoon. He declined to describe any findings, but said investigators do have “strong leads” in the case.

They do not yet have a motive or a vehicle description to give the public, he said.

Authorities have received calls from citizens regarding the case, he said.

Part of the reason for the long closure, Smith said, is deputies didn’t want to stop looking for evidence until after they’d had a chance to search during daylight.

Attempted rescue

The recording of the 911 call details how two passersby tried to help Vann. All but one first name were redacted from the recording and authorities did not release that information.

“I’ve passed a man lying on the side of the road. I’m not sure if he’s alive or not,” the woman said, as the couple turned their white Nissan Altima around and returned to give assistance.

The couple passes the phone back and forth and the man wonders aloud whether the body was dumped.

He sees blood near Vann’s head and says the victim appeared to have his hands in his pockets. “I don’t understand,” the man said.

The girlfriend tells the operator she’s a nurse and as dispatchers send deputies and emergency medical workers to the scene she performs CPR. She uses a piece of paper with holes punched in it to cover Vann’s mouth while she does “rescue breathing.”

“He looks like he has a severe head injury,” she said. “I didn’t ever feel a pulse.” The woman said the man’s body still felt warm.

According to the N.C. Department of Correction Web site, Vann was convicted of multiple misdemeanors in September and November of 2005, including possessing stolen goods, carrying a concealed weapon and possession of marijuana.

Also, Vann was scheduled to appear in New Hanover County court the same morning his body was found.

His hearing was in connection with a misdemeanor charge of possessing marijuana. He was set to return to court in March to face a misdemeanor charge of assault on a female. He also had pending traffic charges, according to court records.

When asked about Vann’s record at Thursday’s news conference, Smith said little.

“It is someone’s loved one,” he said. “Regardless of past or history, no one deserves to go through what he has.”


David Reynolds: 343-2075



I just heard this on the news.  They don't believe he was shot there, but dumped there after being shot. 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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