Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09

[Magnolia]

JEN

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some

KTF, On your question IMO, no.

Thanx Nimrod!

KEEPTHEFAITH

"Either Beth gave the OK to release the information or she didn't.All i can do is trust what i've been told.I believe she was fully aware.Do you?Yes or No."

NIMROD

"KTF, On your question IMO, no."

KEEPTHEFAITH

"Then i think it is fair to surmise from your opinion you DO NOT believe either Kermit,and or the FREEBIRDS?"Is that your opinion?

You surmised wrong. I believe everything that Kermit said that Kyle said is correct. Also, I believe what Jen said was sincere. My only disagreement with them was their unilateral decison to bring it to this board. IMO Kyle was probably the 3rd 0r maybe the fourth person on the food chain of the Persistence. I question Kyle's position in the food chain in his statement that the FBI told HIM there were human remains in the cage.  I personally don't believe there was human remains. Also, after all is said and done about this "theory" the results will probably be that three or four Americans will have been discredited, Auba will be laughing and happy for the diversion and NATALEE WILL STILL BE MISSING. No big deal, What's done is done.

Wow, minrod, I totally agree with you!  In my opinion you hit the nail on the head!  I have always questioned why Kyle had the time to blog, post and email so many places when he was supposed to be helping on the Perisitance.  I also don't believe there was any human remains. Have never believed it.  Until the family tells me there was I will not believe it.  Also I have a daughter who knows someone who lives in south Louisiana and was acquainted with Silvetti and when the search was in the beginning stages he stated to me what a good person Silvetti is. This is not from me but someone who knows him.  All this fighting is sad and serves no purpose in finding Natalee.  All the name calling and attacking on both sides is bad and I am surprised it has been allowed.  Natalee should be the focus and not who knows what and who brought what here!  Some may disagree but this is my opinon which may be worth nothing to anyone but me! I do know that some family members don't read here anymore.  Cannot say for all of them.  I only know what some have told me.  God bless Natalee and her family who have to go through each day without her in their lives! 

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

[Keepthefaith]

JEN

Hello Monekys,

Thank you Klaas for approving my membership.

I am the former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator.

To answer ldstlou - NO, I am not disgruntled.  No, I am no longer a member at that forum.  I resigned today.

That is an outstanding group of people, with hearts of gold.  I admire and respect each and every one of them.

It was merely time for me to move on.  I felt that we had achieved all we could there over the past 2 1/2 years, and all of the Freebirds - former and current - will always be in my heart.

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

I just simply couldn't stand by any longer and watch the continued confusion perpetrated by two particular posters here.  Whether it's been unintentional or deliberate - it really needs to stop now.

Wingnut made an excellent point - and I feel it's one that's been largely overlooked - pressure needs to be applied to get the answers as to what happened to the human remains Aruba recovered from that fishing cage.

Monkeys - you all are stellar at banding together and getting action.

The FBI can only do so much - with their limited jurisdiction.  They can speak to and subpoena from the members of the Persistence their statements and video to ascertain what was found.

Then it becomes an international issue.  Our State Department is where the encouragement is needed - to put pressure on the Hague to get to the bottom of this.

But something must be done.  Natalee's family has been through enough, and that they (and Natalee) were treated so shabbily by the one resource they felt they could trust is utterly heart wrenching.

Thank you Monkeys for allowing me to be here - let's help Natalee's family get some

KTF, On your question IMO, no.

Thanx Nimrod!

KEEPTHEFAITH

"Either Beth gave the OK to release the information or she didn't.All i can do is trust what i've been told.I believe she was fully aware.Do you?Yes or No."

NIMROD

"KTF, On your question IMO, no."

KEEPTHEFAITH

"Then i think it is fair to surmise from your opinion you DO NOT believe either Kermit,and or the FREEBIRDS?"Is that your opinion?

You surmised wrong. I believe everything that Kermit said that Kyle said is correct. Also, I believe what Jen said was sincere. My only disagreement with them was their unilateral decison to bring it to this board. IMO Kyle was probably the 3rd 0r maybe the fourth person on the food chain of the Persistence. I question Kyle's position in the food chain in his statement that the FBI told HIM there were human remains in the cage.  I personally don't believe there was human remains. Also, after all is said and done about this "theory" the results will probably be that three or four Americans will have been discredited, Auba will be laughing and happy for the diversion and NATALEE WILL STILL BE MISSING. No big deal, What's done is done.

Wow, minrod, I totally agree with you!  In my opinion you hit the nail on the head!  I have always questioned why Kyle had the time to blog, post and email so many places when he was supposed to be helping on the Perisitance.  I also don't believe there was any human remains. Have never believed it.  Until the family tells me there was I will not believe it.  Also I have a daughter who knows someone who lives in south Louisiana and was acquainted with Silvetti and when the search was in the beginning stages he stated to me what a good person Silvetti is. This is not from me but someone who knows him.  All this fighting is sad and serves no purpose in finding Natalee.  All the name calling and attacking on both sides is bad and I am surprised it has been allowed.  Natalee should be the focus and not who knows what and who brought what here!  Some may disagree but this is my opinon which may be worth nothing to anyone but me! I do know that some family members don't read here anymore.  Cannot say for all of them.  I only know what some have told me.  God bless Natalee and her family who have to go through each day without her in their lives! 

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

[casa]

Is this supposed to be for me?

[Keepthefaith]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

[casa]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

[Keepthefaith]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

So.It is my opinion that Beth Holloway gave Kermit the permission to bring forth what transpired out in the waters of Aruba.If we trust what PI said,as well as what Kermit,as well as the Freebirds have brought forward!This is what you get.

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

KEEPTHEFAITH

[nonesuche]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

casa - are directing the above in red to me?

[texasmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

March 13, 2008

Posts by Private Eye

Unfortunately, those trusted with the evidence of the investigation were not good stewards of the evidence. Evidence has been destroyed, search activities delayed with no site protection accomplished by the authorities, and interrogations have been stopped at key points and the person being interrogated allowed to be counseled by parents and attorneys, and interrogations have been stopped just short of key questions being asked when the flow of good information was beginning to come out.

Prisoners being isolated have been furnished cell phones and communication has been allowed to occur between locked up and the free.

Do I think psychics are the answer? No.

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

[nonesuche]

casa - if you were or are directing that comment to me, I think that's uncalled for.

I haven't participated in trying to 'out' personal information or discredit posters who present their differences in opinion with a measure of respect.

Some can take the reparte that occurs with differing opinions and some cannot. That is the key problem here, I find it so hard to understand why some cannot see that is the issue clearly. The root cause. If you have spoken with Beth and can refute that kermit has posted then please do so. 

I am not part of the problem here, regardless of what some would try to project upon me.

[Blue Moon]

Good evening all. 

Any report on the show?  Any pictures?

thanks.

[texasmom]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.   I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

 

Why would you encourage anyone here to find out where you're from?  And if you know how to keep your mouth shut, why would you make that statement at all?  Just opens the door to questions that without that statement would not exist.

JMO

[casa]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

So.It is my opinion that Beth Holloway gave Kermit the permission to bring forth what transpired out in the waters of Aruba.If we trust what PI said,as well as what Kermit,as well as the Freebirds have brought forward!This is what you get.

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

KEEPTHEFAITH

We have Kermit's statement that Beth told her to bring this forth.  We have PI's statement which is vague. He did not go into any details.  We don't know what he meant by fixed or who fixed it.  As I stated before when someone from Natalee's family confirms this I will believe it.  There have been too many people claiming to know stuff for me to just blindly trust them.  We are getting stuff here second hand.  People are saying that Beth said this, Dave said this.  Beth, Dave or PI has not confirmed any of this.  You do notice that PI is no longer posting here.  People certainly can have their own opinions.  My opinion is that I will believe the family's opinion above Kermits and they have been quiet.  At this point I believe that Natalee was not in the crab trap.  When and if the family says differently I will change my opinion.  My problem is the attacking that is going on.  In the past everyone was entitled to his or her opinion.  The thing was "don't attack the poster."  There is a lot of attacking the poster going on.
 

[Magnolia]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.   I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

 

Why would you encourage anyone here to find out where you're from?  And if you know how to keep your mouth shut, why would you make that statement at all?  Just opens the door to questions that without that statement would not exist.

JMO

I think that she knows someone, who knows someone, who knows Beth.
Her daughter knows someone who knows Sllvetti.

[klaasend]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

CASA - the comment above is uncalled for.  I will not tolerate members of another forum coming here with the sole purpose to accuse people and start trouble.

This is your first warning.  If I have to warn you again you will be permanently banned, I don't care WHO you say you know.

[casa]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

casa - are directing the above in red to me?

none, I did not even know you were here.  I was referring to things that I have been told that I kept my mouth shut about!

[klaasend]

We have Kermit's statement that Beth told her to bring this forth.  We have PI's statement which is vague. He did not go into any details.  We don't know what he meant by fixed or who fixed it.  As I stated before when someone from Natalee's family confirms this I will believe it.  There have been too many people claiming to know stuff for me to just blindly trust them.  We are getting stuff here second hand.  People are saying that Beth said this, Dave said this.  Beth, Dave or PI has not confirmed any of this.  You do notice that PI is no longer posting here.  People certainly can have their own opinions.  My opinion is that I will believe the family's opinion above Kermits and they have been quiet.  At this point I believe that Natalee was not in the crab trap.  When and if the family says differently I will change my opinion.  My problem is the attacking that is going on.  In the past everyone was entitled to his or her opinion.  The thing was "don't attack the poster."  There is a lot of attacking the poster going on.
 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[casa]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

CASA - the comment above is uncalled for.  I will not tolerate members of another forum coming here with the sole purpose to accuse people and start trouble.

This is your first warning.  If I have to warn you again you will be permanently banned, I don't care WHO you say you know.

I was not referring to anyone and I apologize if anyone took it that way.  I was only talking about myself. 

[Blue Moon]

I am going to IGNORE these drive by posters.  If they come here to disrupt then so be it but I am going to ignore them.  They come to an open forum that they have been approved to post here, throw out their opinions about the bashing here of other members and THEN run to their PRIVATE site to see who goes next.  Open up your forum so we can see what is being discussed there versus what is being discussed here.  I bet we will find out really quick just who is bashing who.  JMO

[texasmom]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

So.It is my opinion that Beth Holloway gave Kermit the permission to bring forth what transpired out in the waters of Aruba.If we trust what PI said,as well as what Kermit,as well as the Freebirds have brought forward!This is what you get.

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

KEEPTHEFAITH

We have Kermit's statement that Beth told her to bring this forth.  We have PI's statement which is vague. He did not go into any details.  We don't know what he meant by fixed or who fixed it.  As I stated before when someone from Natalee's family confirms this I will believe it.  There have been too many people claiming to know stuff for me to just blindly trust them.  We are getting stuff here second hand.  People are saying that Beth said this, Dave said this.  Beth, Dave or PI has not confirmed any of this.  You do notice that PI is no longer posting here.  People certainly can have their own opinions.  My opinion is that I will believe the family's opinion above Kermits and they have been quiet.  At this point I believe that Natalee was not in the crab trap.  When and if the family says differently I will change my opinion.  My problem is the attacking that is going on.  In the past everyone was entitled to his or her opinion.  The thing was "don't attack the poster."  There is a lot of attacking the poster going on.
 

This is the quote that the statement from Private Eye was taken from:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 08, 2008, 08:39:50 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

[Magnolia]

Is this supposed to be for me?

It can be for whomever!

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

I trust PI's statement.All of it!

Yes , Keep the Faith, I also trust things that PI has said totally!  Find out what city and state I live in.  I just don't say much as I know to keep my mouth shut when I am asked to.

Yes,

Kermit did the right thing by making this information public at Beth Holloway's request (albeit 2 months after she asked us to do so thanks to the need to avoid litigation).

So.It is my opinion that Beth Holloway gave Kermit the permission to bring forth what transpired out in the waters of Aruba.If we trust what PI said,as well as what Kermit,as well as the Freebirds have brought forward!This is what you get.

PI, Beth's brother, said it best......"the effort was supberb, but the game
was fixed."

KEEPTHEFAITH

We have Kermit's statement that Beth told her to bring this forth.  We have PI's statement which is vague. He did not go into any details.  We don't know what he meant by fixed or who fixed it.  As I stated before when someone from Natalee's family confirms this I will believe it.  There have been too many people claiming to know stuff for me to just blindly trust them.  We are getting stuff here second hand.  People are saying that Beth said this, Dave said this.  Beth, Dave or PI has not confirmed any of this.  You do notice that PI is no longer posting here.  People certainly can have their own opinions.  My opinion is that I will believe the family's opinion above Kermits and they have been quiet.  At this point I believe that Natalee was not in the crab trap.  When and if the family says differently I will change my opinion.  My problem is the attacking that is going on.  In the past everyone was entitled to his or her opinion.  The thing was "don't attack the poster."  There is a lot of attacking the poster going on.
 

This is the quote that the statement from Private Eye was taken from:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 08, 2008, 08:39:50 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

Thank goodness you are here TM.  I am lost without Janet.
I have to rely on memory.