Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09

[Keepthefaith]

Janet - I was getting ready to set out some bait if you hadn't showed up when you did......

Don't do it Janet.The Green Tea has Hinky powers!

 

wingnut ... there are times I would love nothing more than a cup of coffee but ... when all s said and done ... quitting was not that difficult.  Hubby does not drink coffee ... so I think the absence of temptation really helps.

Hey ... in the Musing Thread ... I submitted a response to a post of yours.

Keepthefaith ... you are right on!!  My cup after cup of green tea throughout the day does wonders.  It makes me feel hinky all over.

 

Janet

Just finishing the slide show for the 2nd time.

[Anna]

I drink green tea often but mine is iced and not hot.

Could that be why it never makes me feel anything let
alone hinky?

Maybe I should try heating it up.

 

[caesu]

KLM stops flying to Aruba as it's not profitable anymore.
subsidiary Martinair takes the route over.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/reiskrant/3161065/__KLM_laat_route_naar_Aruba_over_aan_Martinair__.html

--------


Isn't KLM a subsidiary of Air France now?

I wonder if that was also a factor in this decision.

Air France-KLM is an European airline holding company incorporated under French law with its headquarters at Roissy-Charles de Gaulle Airport near Paris, France.

Wholly-owned subsidiaries of Air France-KLM include:

Air France
KLM
Martinair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France-KLM

the Amsterdam-Aruba route was under pressure for a while.
but now due to the emmission tax and economic crisis KLM decided to stop this route.

[wingnut]

Janet - I was getting ready to set out some bait if you hadn't showed up when you did......

Don't do it Janet.The Green Tea has Hinky powers!

 

wingnut ... there are times I would love nothing more than a cup of coffee but ... when all s said and done ... quitting was not that difficult.  Hubby does not drink coffee ... so I think the absence of temptation really helps.

Hey ... in the Musing Thread ... I submitted a response to a post of yours.

Keepthefaith ... you are right on!!  My cup after cup of green tea throughout the day does wonders.  It makes me feel hinky all over.

 

Janet

You quit drinking coffee????????

 

[Lifesong]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

CAPS - DETECTIVE - DETECTIVE’S BROTHER

<snip>

Kyle: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle:  IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle:  My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.[/b]

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle: Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.

Kyle:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle:  The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.

Kyle:  The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so cryptic
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were coth exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- he was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)
- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

Kyle:  Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.

Kyle:  It was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

Kyle:  I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Did that really happen?  Was there even a brother, or just a detective?  Sounds more to me like ALE  telling them where the cage was so they could clean it out.  The game was fixed, PI said.

Less than two weeks after the Persistence arrived and started the search (12/18 IIRC) the first dive took place on the cage (12/30 IIRC).  The second dive for evidence retrieval 8 days later (1/7 IIRC).  And then not another dive the entire time until Persistence leaves on 3/3, IIRC.

Why would these "professionals" listen to a guy with a vision?  I'm just not buying that.

Disclaimer:  This is a drive-by.  I'm headed out to put in a couple hours at the office & will check back later.

Anna & Ree:  My apologies - I dozed off last night in front of entirely too many open tabs and windows...two of which were reply windows to your posts!  Glad to know you're nearby Ree - I enjoy your posts.  Anna - nice catch on Budgirl's post, I agree!  There was another post of yours I was going to respond to as well, but can't remember just now, will look for it tonight.


On we go....

[caesu]

KLM stops flying to Aruba as it's not profitable anymore.
subsidiary Martinair takes the route over.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/reiskrant/3161065/__KLM_laat_route_naar_Aruba_over_aan_Martinair__.html

Johan Remkes joins Brinkman in wanting to stop talking with the parliaments of Aruba/Antilles.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3162426/__VVD__geen_overleg_met_Antillen__.html

Whoa!!  That's a collaboration I never thought I'd see!!  can you tell us more caesu about what this article says?

TIA

expect an article in English about this tomorrow here: http://www.thedailyherald.com/

Remkes is saying these parlamentairy meetings are useless because Aruba/Antilles are calling the Dutch racist if there is some criticism from the Dutch.
in june there were meeting planned, he wants them cancelled.

Remkes is of the VVD, this is a large opposition party who has been in government many times.
further Remkes has been minister of the interior, aruban/antilles affairs resort under this department.
the state reforms concerning the antilles are still ongoing, so without these meeting these reforms risk failing.

[texasmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!
_______

The following slide show should have made me angry but ... it made me very sad.

From way back ... I have posted along side of some of the members of CnG at various forums in the cause of Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closure for her family.  Others ... I truly felt I had connected with on the SM Caylee Marie forum.  I could not have been more wrong.

At least I know where I stand with the trolls at RU unlimited.  I can deal with that no problem.  However ... when I consider words of the posts I just read and ... then considered the authors of those posts ... I am emotionally drained.

If it were not for the rejoicing that would be heard from CnG members all the way over to the SM forum ... I would thow in the towel.  If it were not for my almost four year quest to explose the corruption that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway ... I would throw in the towel.

Janet

_____

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4248.msg656377#msg656377

Hey ... I have no intentions of going anywhere.  Number 1 ... I am addicted to the Natalee Holloway case.  Number 2 ... I would not give some at CnG as well as the trolls who have been placed by the "powers that be" on Natalee Forums to distract ... the satisfaction.

Thank you all for your support.  The situation has not changed ... the disappointmens are still there ... but a good night sleep can put everything in a perspective that implies emotional control.

Janet

I was away for a bit.  Thank goodness! 

 

[texasmom]

Janet - I was getting ready to set out some bait if you hadn't showed up when you did......

Don't do it Janet.The Green Tea has Hinky powers!

 

[Keepthefaith]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

CAPS - DETECTIVE - DETECTIVE’S BROTHER

<snip>

Kyle: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle:  IF a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle:  My opinion on Simian is that he is a detective/cop involved in the case since the beginning. My understanding is that there is only one of the originals remaining. He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed. The vision was cryptic and actually contained a latitude which from what he claimed could have been anywhere in the world. The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. Basically, if you stood on land and pointed straight to the trap and were right on the money... this is what the difference amounts to. Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude. I would have found the trap without the latitude, but it was very strange. None of us pressed the two for more information because they clearly were VERY uncomfortable.

The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.

His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.[/b]

Personally, I think the detective was Simian. The guy kept his mouth shut for the most part but was obviously intelligent and knew a lot more than he led on. It didn't seem he immediately trusted us but gradually became more comfortable, enough to talk.

I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap. Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later. I think the whole game was bogus and he knew almost everything but was helping how he was able and felt comfortable. I don't understand why he had to use his brother and claim a "vision".

The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up. Not wanting to be implicated but still wanting to help, he could shift the information to a vision of his brothers, perhaps still help a bit and claim no-involvement. However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion. Perhaps I should find out his name. I never got it. We may never have.

Kyle: Based on the little I know of Simian, there are striking similarities that stood out after I laid down on the evening I met with the detective and his brother.Perhaps Simian is the detective and Shango is the brother.

Kyle:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle:  The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk. The brother did all the talking at first. It seemed to me the brother was acting out the "vision" scenario to protect the detective brother. It didn't feel like the brother was in any way corrupt or connected. Also, he wasn't that bright compared to the detective brother. After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.

Kyle:  The reason I think the detective is Simian is that:
- he is intimately connected to the case
- forced into silence
- both he and the brother seemed to want the case solved but the whole encounter was so cryptic
- he is condemned if his identity and knowledge were coth exposed. One or the other, he's still safe
- he was intelligent and had a good enough command over the english language (not common over the rest of the bunch)
- IF his brother was acting on his behalf with the whole 'I had a vision' act, then the detective's character supports pulling something like Simian off.
- the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.
- It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.
- his character was very cryptic; the way he moved, spoke, and asked questions was just not normal.

Kyle:  Caps is not Simian. He has indicated he knows who was either Shango or Simian. The person he thinks it is, is a cop.

Kyle:  It was Clyde Burke that went to the meeting with Helen Lejuz

Kyle:  I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Did that really happen?  Was there even a brother, or just a detective?  Sounds more to me like ALE  telling them where the cage was so they could clean it out.  The game was fixed, PI said.

Less than two weeks after the Persistence arrived and started the search (12/18 IIRC) the first dive took place on the cage (12/30 IIRC).  The second dive for evidence retrieval 8 days later (1/7 IIRC).  And then not another dive the entire time until Persistence leaves on 3/3, IIRC.

Why would these "professionals" listen to a guy with a vision?  I'm just not buying that.

Disclaimer:  This is a drive-by.  I'm headed out to put in a couple hours at the office & will check back later.

Anna & Ree:  My apologies - I dozed off last night in front of entirely too many open tabs and windows...two of which were reply windows to your posts!  Glad to know you're nearby Ree - I enjoy your posts.  Anna - nice catch on Budgirl's post, I agree!  There was another post of yours I was going to respond to as well, but can't remember just now, will look for it tonight.


On we go....

I Agree Lifesong.Down there for around 4 months and the only target you physically dive on is the cage/trap.Tim Trahan says nothing.Then ALE comes in on Jan 7th.Then no more dives.Something is wrong.Seriously wrong with this picture!

[caesu]

'Wilders appeals against prosecution'

Tuesday 03 February 2009

Anti-immigration MP Geert Wilders is asking the high court to tear up a lower court decision calling for his prosecution for inciting hatred and discrimination.

A statement on the PVV party website says that Wilders has brought in top lawyer Bram Moszkowicz to take up his case and try to have the decision to prosecute overturned. ‘I have got the best lawyer in the Netherlands’, Wilders said.

Last month the Amsterdam appeal court said the public prosecution department had been wrong not to prosecute Wilders for inciting hatred and discrimination following his comments about Islam and Muslims.

For example, in 2007, Wilders told the Volkskrant that the Koran should be made illegal: ‘ban that despicable book, like Mein Kampf is banned’. In another newspaper, De Pers, he callled for a ban on Muslim immigrants and for deportations.

Wilders has described last week’s decision to prosecute him as a black day for freedom of speech and says he will do all he can to avoid appearing in court.

NOS tv reports that Wilders believes the public prosecution department will not continue its investigation into his statements pending the high court ruling. But a spokesman said on Tuesday that the department will continue researching its case.

On his personal website, Wilders is now appealling for cash to help his ‘struggle for the defense of the West’ which he says is now ‘in jeopardy’.

© DutchNews.nl

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/02/wilders_appeals_against_hatred.php

Geert Wilders and Hero Brinkman are of the same party.
Bram Moszkowicz is also the attorney for Beth Holloway in the civil case - but there haven't been any updates about that.


in latest polls Wilders PVV has 23 seats.
prime-minister Balkenende's party CDA 28 seats.
coalition partner PvdA 26 seats.

VVD (Remkes) 22 seats.

largest fragmentation of political parties since universal suffrage in 1918.
virtually impossible to form a coalition government with these poll numbers.

Wilders is the 3rd largest party in the polls now.
he gained 6 seats in two weeks since the Appeals Court ordered a prosecution against him.

[Anna]

caesu,

How does a politician gain seats without an election?

TIA

[Edward]

Hot chocolate and cookies brings them over every time.. 

[caesu]

caesu,

How does a politician gain seats without an election?

TIA

i was just taking about gaining seats in the polls here.
but Balkenende must be getting nervous.
Wilders is breathing heavily down Balkenende's neck, only 5 seats away now.

yellow is Balkenende CDA, brown is Wilders PVV.

(sorry if this gets too much off-topic)

[texasmom]

This caught my eye, I know it's not likely who I think it is (she's older IIRC); but who knows????  It wouldn't surprise me at this point.



http://www.awe24.com/

Papiamentu translation:

muher mericano owing to cansa of menasa of muher aruban diadomingo 10’or, one police of san nicolas at keep is achieve one call internacional for of estados unidos for one caso of menasa. the muher s.s. of estados unidos of 51 year, y is ask police intermediacion, because; cu one muher j., constantemente is yame at telephone y is menase. the is tell police cu the muher owing to bise cu person can come his cas for maltrate. police did take number of the such j., y owing to bay his cas for talk cune. police owing to puntre pakico the is calling s.s., past owing to tell cu the do not calling y the not conoce s.s. police owing to show j. that is j.v. naci at aruba of 42 year y owing to mustre on the consecuencia y owing to adverti’e. past owing to show comprension. come across

[Lifesong]

Thanks, caesu.  I think its kind of fascinating.

I also *think* I'm glad that PVV is on the rise.  They, PVV, suffered a sudden loss (over 10 seats?) around October, 2007.  Do you know what caused that?

I do hope I'm understanding correctly that this is similar to one of our political polls, and the loss or gain of seats is hypothetical, i.e. if the election were held at that point in time.  Thanks for asking that Anna, good question.

[Anna]

Do the politicians sway the opinion of other politicians to gain seats or is it a public opinion poll or how do they change sides without an election.  Here a politician can't do that very easily.  The people who voted for him would become angry if he switched sides.

[Kermit]

for Ms. Janet,
It was here, when they were "without...divisions" that the glory of God manifested.
that they may be perfected into a unit...(2 Chronicles 5:11-14).

You are too important, your words have wisdom and reveal truth. Never surrender to the enemy,
do not allow emotions to even think about what evil speaks.
The truth is the sword.

[Kermit]

Sharon,

Thank you.
You are such a wonderful example of how a strong woman walks the walk and talks the talk.
You are truly an inspiration.

[Lifesong]

This caught my eye, I know it's not likely who I think it is (she's older IIRC); but who knows????  It wouldn't surprise me at this point.



http://www.awe24.com/

Papiamentu translation:

muher mericano owing to cansa of menasa of muher aruban diadomingo 10’or, one police of san nicolas at keep is achieve one call internacional for of estados unidos for one caso of menasa. the muher s.s. of estados unidos of 51 year, y is ask police intermediacion, because; cu one muher j., constantemente is yame at telephone y is menase. the is tell police cu the muher owing to bise cu person can come his cas for maltrate. police did take number of the such j., y owing to bay his cas for talk cune. police owing to puntre pakico the is calling s.s., past owing to tell cu the do not calling y the not conoce s.s. police owing to show j. that is j.v. naci at aruba of 42 year y owing to mustre on the consecuencia y owing to adverti’e. past owing to show comprension. come across

Would it be wrong to respond to this with post a suggesting that Julia wants ******* to stop calling her?   

Yeah, it probably would.   

[Kermit]

texasmom, It looked like Commencia in that photo to me too.