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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09  (Read 175523 times)
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klaasend
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« Reply #700 on: February 03, 2009, 09:56:12 PM »

I watch TV. 

   I am impressed, Wreck.

You still watchin reruns of Sanford and Son?

Hey...I watch Sanford and Son sometimes too!   

TV isn't like it used to be!Oh,oh Mrrrr.Kotttterrrrr!

O/T

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>
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Lifesong
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« Reply #701 on: February 03, 2009, 09:59:57 PM »



Klaasend, Thank you for reposting the photos. 

Lifesong, I wanted to respond with a little of my reasoning before this got too old.  I have to respectfully disagree with Kyle, Klaasend and the big hammer.  But that is what we do here.  We theorize and discuss till we prove or disprove.  First, I want you to consider a triangle with a 42" hypotenuse.  That would be approximately a triangle 30" x 30" x 42".  Lay it out on your bed or floor and see how much of your body fits in it.  My height is the same as Natalee's and I can't get much more than my head in it.  Now if the trap is a 7' 700 pound trap like the Alaskan crab fishermen use http://www.fishex.com/galleries/king-crab-fishing/photo-gallery.html you can enlarge that triangle in one grid to 42" x 42" x 60".  Even that is not enough space to put most of Natalee's body, you could maybe get head to butt.  Size is important, and no reference is given, so how can anyone say without a doubt, but it doesn't seem practical to me. 

That link to the photo gallery also shows what size vessel and crane would be necessary to move the trap.  The ship would probably have a crew of at least five.  There would have had to have been many phone calls made to arrange for that type of disposal.  Think of the money the captain would want for sacrificing his trap and fuel and paying for the silence of the crew as well.  Most people would want to keep the disposal as simple as possible.  The other possibility would be for divers to take the body down 90' and place it in the trap and they would not go out aimlessly swimming around the ocean floor looking for a lost trap. 

Now on to the ziplock evidence bags.  Here in the states we would expect photos to be taken of the scene before during and after evidence removal.  Something of know size should be placed next to the objects.  All trained divers carry a knife and that would have been convenient to place as comparison.  I need to see those photographs.  Here is an article that speaks to the quality of underwater photograhy.  http://www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/water.htm  These photos, we are to assume, were all taken with the ROV.  I would not expect the same sharpness you would get with a well lit digital photograph.  I find it hard to beleive the clarity.       

Thanks Monkey Mia!

Ok consider this.  First, the example KYLE created does indeed show only head to butt fitting in the cage (in a straight line).  Also consider the possibility that the cage was already there, then something place in it instead of the cage actually being transported on a boat with the purpose of disposing of Natalee.

If you are referring to the photo with the plastic zip lock bags and clarity, I couldn't agree with you more.  Something is not right about that photo.

Bump!

My experience with photoshopped pics is more like the pic Johan555 posted of the skull underwater that, I think it was Wreck commented it looked like it had sunglasses on.  In other words, most photoshopped pics I've seen have some telltale signs of being faked/edited.  I know nothing about the plankton and particulate matter in the water and how they should appear in these pictures.

Do any of the Freebirds or anyone else have anything to add to this conversation?  Was there ever any discussion with Kyle about the clarity of the underwater pictures?  May I ask whether any of you think these pics were photoshopped?

Thanks in advance!

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« Reply #702 on: February 03, 2009, 10:02:31 PM »


Thank you Miss Magnolia for my brand new suit. I'll surely need it when I go to the Fraser Valley for a visit to Janets lovely pond and shoefly pie.



Brrrr...glad you have that.
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« Reply #703 on: February 03, 2009, 10:02:42 PM »

I watch TV. 

   I am impressed, Wreck.

You still watchin reruns of Sanford and Son?

Hey...I watch Sanford and Son sometimes too!   

TV isn't like it used to be!Oh,oh Mrrrr.Kotttterrrrr!

O/T

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

That was awesome.Those where the days.Welcome Back Kotter,Taxi,Sanford and Son,All in the Family,Happy days,Laverne and Shirley!What happened to TV??
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« Reply #704 on: February 03, 2009, 10:05:19 PM »



Klaasend, Thank you for reposting the photos. 

Lifesong, I wanted to respond with a little of my reasoning before this got too old.  I have to respectfully disagree with Kyle, Klaasend and the big hammer.  But that is what we do here.  We theorize and discuss till we prove or disprove.  First, I want you to consider a triangle with a 42" hypotenuse.  That would be approximately a triangle 30" x 30" x 42".  Lay it out on your bed or floor and see how much of your body fits in it.  My height is the same as Natalee's and I can't get much more than my head in it.  Now if the trap is a 7' 700 pound trap like the Alaskan crab fishermen use http://www.fishex.com/galleries/king-crab-fishing/photo-gallery.html you can enlarge that triangle in one grid to 42" x 42" x 60".  Even that is not enough space to put most of Natalee's body, you could maybe get head to butt.  Size is important, and no reference is given, so how can anyone say without a doubt, but it doesn't seem practical to me. 

That link to the photo gallery also shows what size vessel and crane would be necessary to move the trap.  The ship would probably have a crew of at least five.  There would have had to have been many phone calls made to arrange for that type of disposal.  Think of the money the captain would want for sacrificing his trap and fuel and paying for the silence of the crew as well.  Most people would want to keep the disposal as simple as possible.  The other possibility would be for divers to take the body down 90' and place it in the trap and they would not go out aimlessly swimming around the ocean floor looking for a lost trap. 

Now on to the ziplock evidence bags.  Here in the states we would expect photos to be taken of the scene before during and after evidence removal.  Something of know size should be placed next to the objects.  All trained divers carry a knife and that would have been convenient to place as comparison.  I need to see those photographs.  Here is an article that speaks to the quality of underwater photograhy.  http://www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/water.htm  These photos, we are to assume, were all taken with the ROV.  I would not expect the same sharpness you would get with a well lit digital photograph.  I find it hard to beleive the clarity.       

Thanks Monkey Mia!

Ok consider this.  First, the example KYLE created does indeed show only head to butt fitting in the cage (in a straight line).  Also consider the possibility that the cage was already there, then something place in it instead of the cage actually being transported on a boat with the purpose of disposing of Natalee.

If you are referring to the photo with the plastic zip lock bags and clarity, I couldn't agree with you more.  Something is not right about that photo.

Bump!

My experience with photoshopped pics is more like the pic Johan555 posted of the skull underwater that, I think it was Wreck commented it looked like it had sunglasses on.  In other words, most photoshopped pics I've seen have some telltale signs of being faked/edited.  I know nothing about the plankton and particulate matter in the water and how they should appear in these pictures.

Do any of the Freebirds or anyone else have anything to add to this conversation?  Was there ever any discussion with Kyle about the clarity of the underwater pictures?  May I ask whether any of you think these pics were photoshopped?

Thanks in advance!



I would think word would have came down the pike that those were photoshopped via the FBI,and or Beth.Klaas,Kermit,and or any Freebird would be able to answer that much better! may be able to answer
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« Reply #705 on: February 03, 2009, 10:05:23 PM »

I watch TV. 

   I am impressed, Wreck.

You still watchin reruns of Sanford and Son?

Hey...I watch Sanford and Son sometimes too!   

TV isn't like it used to be!Oh,oh Mrrrr.Kotttterrrrr!

O/T

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VT5lnynu9l8&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

That was awesome.Those where the days.Welcome Back Kotter,Taxi,Sanford and Son,All in the Family,Happy days,Laverne and Shirley!What happened to TV??
Yes it was Awesome..Thanks Klaas...KTF You forgot... Mama's Family. That was a really good one too! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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« Reply #706 on: February 03, 2009, 10:05:35 PM »

President Chavez has banned Aruban airlines.

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/2971941/Venezuela_weert_vliegtuigen_uit_Aruba_en_Curaccedilao.html

some Arubans are now stuck in Venezuela.

reason for this might be that Venezuelans go to Aruba to exchange bolivars for U.S. dollars.

Sounds like Chavez will make some arubans examples.  Chavez doesn't play around.  I hope these people are safe and o.k.  (unless it is Joran, paulus or the kalpoes).
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #707 on: February 03, 2009, 10:06:59 PM »

Tourism Minister Edison Briesen is pissed off because KLM is going to stop flying to Aruba.

he says KLM made him look a like a fool.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3165944/___KLM_zet_Aruba_in_hemd___.html

Didn't take much to make Briesen look like a fool did it?
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #708 on: February 03, 2009, 10:11:40 PM »

  Now I'm watching "Wreckreation Nation" on Discovery!
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klaasend
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« Reply #709 on: February 03, 2009, 10:16:23 PM »

President Chavez has banned Aruban airlines.

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/2971941/Venezuela_weert_vliegtuigen_uit_Aruba_en_Curaccedilao.html

some Arubans are now stuck in Venezuela.

reason for this might be that Venezuelans go to Aruba to exchange bolivars for U.S. dollars.

Sounds like Chavez will make some arubans examples.  Chavez doesn't play around.  I hope these people are safe and o.k.  (unless it is Joran, paulus or the kalpoes).

I love it!

Wednesday 04 February 2009
Venezuela weert aircraft from Aruba and Curacao

ORANGE CITY - The Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez, the landing rights of Aruban and Antillean airlines repealed. That the Aruban Minister of Tourism and Transport Edison snort Tuesday (local time) confirmed. Aruban Some passengers waiting in Venezuela to be obtained.

The motif is not snort Venezuela published. ,, On the street we hear that Chávez not want them to come here for dollars.''In recent years many Venezuelans came to the islands for their currencies to dollars to continue. Since change in Venezuela is punishable, has led to the emergence of a black market that usurious prices.

Through the Dutch embassy in the capital Caracas is now obsolete as the official reason, according to Minister breeze. Panama also is facing a ban of Chávez.

According to Peter Steinmetz, director of Aruba Airport Reina Beatrix, an official line carriers can operate flights still care. The Aruban airline Tiara Air flies almost daily in the country, it's not for a permanent license to arrive. ,, Until now, they asked weekly authorization for the charters''said Steinmetz. The Antillean Dutch Antilles Express (DAE) is since January not authorize charters to Venezuela.
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billb's daughter
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No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!


« Reply #710 on: February 03, 2009, 10:17:48 PM »

I watch TV. 
Is it on? 
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klaasend
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« Reply #711 on: February 03, 2009, 10:17:54 PM »

Now I'm watching "Wreckreation Nation" on Discovery!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SShowYy0nrs&feature=PlayList&p=A659FFE6CBE1B100&playnext=1&index=1
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« Reply #712 on: February 03, 2009, 10:21:37 PM »

President Chavez has banned Aruban airlines.

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/2971941/Venezuela_weert_vliegtuigen_uit_Aruba_en_Curaccedilao.html

some Arubans are now stuck in Venezuela.

reason for this might be that Venezuelans go to Aruba to exchange bolivars for U.S. dollars.

Sounds like Chavez will make some arubans examples.  Chavez doesn't play around.  I hope these people are safe and o.k.  (unless it is Joran, paulus or the kalpoes).

I love it!

Wednesday 04 February 2009
Venezuela weert aircraft from Aruba and Curacao

ORANGE CITY - The Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez, the landing rights of Aruban and Antillean airlines repealed. That the Aruban Minister of Tourism and Transport Edison snort Tuesday (local time) confirmed. Aruban Some passengers waiting in Venezuela to be obtained.

The motif is not snort Venezuela published. ,, On the street we hear that Chávez not want them to come here for dollars.''In recent years many Venezuelans came to the islands for their currencies to dollars to continue. Since change in Venezuela is punishable, has led to the emergence of a black market that usurious prices.

Through the Dutch embassy in the capital Caracas is now obsolete as the official reason, according to Minister breeze. Panama also is facing a ban of Chávez.

According to Peter Steinmetz, director of Aruba Airport Reina Beatrix, an official line carriers can operate flights still care. The Aruban airline Tiara Air flies almost daily in the country, it's not for a permanent license to arrive. ,, Until now, they asked weekly authorization for the charters''said Steinmetz. The Antillean Dutch Antilles Express (DAE) is since January not authorize charters to Venezuela.


   *snort*        *snort*   
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« Reply #713 on: February 03, 2009, 10:31:37 PM »


Thank you Miss Magnolia for my brand new suit. I'll surely need it when I go to the Fraser Valley for a visit to Janets lovely pond and shoefly pie.


  I Love It!

I want one, please, please.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #714 on: February 03, 2009, 10:45:03 PM »


  I just about peed myself!
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
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« Reply #715 on: February 03, 2009, 10:49:17 PM »

Tourism Minister Edison Briesen is pissed off because KLM is going to stop flying to Aruba.

he says KLM made him look a like a fool.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3165944/___KLM_zet_Aruba_in_hemd___.html

Didn't take much to make Briesen look like a fool did it?

Yeah, since when has he ever needed any help to look foolish!

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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #716 on: February 03, 2009, 10:49:25 PM »

No, the tube lasts longer that way! 
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« Reply #717 on: February 03, 2009, 10:51:01 PM »

President Chavez has banned Aruban airlines.

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/2971941/Venezuela_weert_vliegtuigen_uit_Aruba_en_Curaccedilao.html

some Arubans are now stuck in Venezuela.

reason for this might be that Venezuelans go to Aruba to exchange bolivars for U.S. dollars.

Sounds like Chavez will make some arubans examples.  Chavez doesn't play around.  I hope these people are safe and o.k.  (unless it is Joran, paulus or the kalpoes).


I once knew a poster who sent Chavez emails in Spanish telling him that a REAL Man wouldn't let the Dutch take his islands like that, lol.  One of those pot stirrers I suspect.

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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #718 on: February 03, 2009, 10:51:38 PM »


Thank you Miss Magnolia for my brand new suit. I'll surely need it when I go to the Fraser Valley for a visit to Janets lovely pond and shoefly pie.



Oh, Kermit. I am so glad to see that it fits so well!
I was worried.  It was hard to find goat wool in your color.
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The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
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« Reply #719 on: February 03, 2009, 10:58:24 PM »


Lord,have Mercy on Wreck and BILLB if i pass away from laughing to hard!
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
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