Natalee Case Discussion #798 2/1/09 - 2/5/09

[Magnolia]

This Discussion this morning brought this to mind..Could this be why She fit in the trap...Just a Thought...

Monkeys, I tried to go to sleep, because i waana get up tomorrow and see what we hear. Something kept me awake though. It was a post on the internet From March 2006. I know we discussed it here long ago, and I also brought it back here to the forum On December 9th. But now I really DO believe that someone who knew what happened was trying to tell us . I wonder if this is what we will hear tommorow?    I give you the post again....Left on a blog called    Joranvandersloot.com, in the comments........................

8:41 pm  anonymous said...
It was high tide and sea water covering the beach slope, Koen's boat stayed out at a distance in the water and he didn't want the boat got stuck in the beach sand dunes. Joran didn't want his shoes get wet and he took them off. He and Deepak together carried Natalee's body and walking through the water towards Koen's boat where Koen kept the boat's motor running and positioning, it was high tide and high wind, the sea waves were strong and rough. For some unknown reasons Joran got some blood into his shoes when the suspects were trying to fit Natalee's body into the
crap cage. They might have to do some cuttings of the body in order to get all the body parts into the cage. The cage was not a coffin shape, it was square in shape, not long enough to fit a body of 5'4. So Joran put his bloody shoes into the square crab cage as well. Together the suspects dropped cage to the deepsea bottom and got rid of the forensic evidence.[b/] If Tim Miller can locate the crab cage, Joran's shoes are there. Joran is the murderer.

Hotping, if they were trying to get her into a small trap that would fit Koen's boat, why is Kyle saying she is in a large commercial trap that is probably 7' and 700 pounds?

I believe that Natalee was moved around several times...I think that it is possible that Her skeleton remains were put in the larger trap at some time...maybe years after She died..She could have possibly been in the smaller one then moved out further into deeper water and placed in the larger one... I believe that there is a remark by Paulus where He says I had no idea that the ocean could be searched like that meaning by ROV..Anybody else remember this comment by Paulus? 

What condition and what position would those skeletal remains be in?

It seems to Me that the remains being underwater would definitely move around and would not be in the same position as when first put there...as far as condition of the remains I don't know... 

I don't know how to do an experiment on that one. 
The remains were wrapped in a tarp and weighted down with rocks.
I don't think it would have moved much.

[Keepthefaith]

Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 09:28:45 AM

Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260

So the cage was 7.5ft across?And your gonna tell me a girl that was Natalee's height wouldn't fit in that cage?

[Keepthefaith]

Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 09:28:45 AM

Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260

So the cage was 7.5ft across?And your gonna tell me a girl that was Natalee's height wouldn't fit in that cage?

That wasn't directed at you Jen!Being sarcastic!

[jen3560]

Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 09:28:45 AM

Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260

So the cage was 7.5ft across?And your gonna tell me a girl that was Natalee's height wouldn't fit in that cage?

That wasn't directed at you Jen!Being sarcastic!

I know - no worries!

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet,

I really think there was a honest misunderstanding about this "permission" that you say exists. You are aware, I'm sure, that this issue unfairly puts the family in a box if they are forced to get involved, one way or the other? IMO

nimrod ... logic dictates that Beth Holloway would have informed either the Natalee's Freebirds administrator or ... the Scared Monke's administrator ... if there had been "a misunderstanding" in regards to revealing Kyle Kingman's own words ... in regards to revealing Kyle Kingman revealing the second set of ROV images.

Think about.  Kermit began his series of revelations on November 24th, 2008.  Considering the relationship that Red has with Beth Holloway ... Beth would have only had to say the word over the past 2 1/2 months and ... this discussion would have come to an immediate halt.

Janet

+++++++

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[hotping]

This Discussion this morning brought this to mind..Could this be why She fit in the trap...Just a Thought...

Monkeys, I tried to go to sleep, because i waana get up tomorrow and see what we hear. Something kept me awake though. It was a post on the internet From March 2006. I know we discussed it here long ago, and I also brought it back here to the forum On December 9th. But now I really DO believe that someone who knew what happened was trying to tell us . I wonder if this is what we will hear tommorow?    I give you the post again....Left on a blog called    Joranvandersloot.com, in the comments........................

8:41 pm  anonymous said...
It was high tide and sea water covering the beach slope, Koen's boat stayed out at a distance in the water and he didn't want the boat got stuck in the beach sand dunes. Joran didn't want his shoes get wet and he took them off. He and Deepak together carried Natalee's body and walking through the water towards Koen's boat where Koen kept the boat's motor running and positioning, it was high tide and high wind, the sea waves were strong and rough. For some unknown reasons Joran got some blood into his shoes when the suspects were trying to fit Natalee's body into the
crap cage. They might have to do some cuttings of the body in order to get all the body parts into the cage. The cage was not a coffin shape, it was square in shape, not long enough to fit a body of 5'4. So Joran put his bloody shoes into the square crab cage as well. Together the suspects dropped cage to the deepsea bottom and got rid of the forensic evidence.[b/] If Tim Miller can locate the crab cage, Joran's shoes are there. Joran is the murderer.

Hotping, if they were trying to get her into a small trap that would fit Koen's boat, why is Kyle saying she is in a large commercial trap that is probably 7' and 700 pounds?

I believe that Natalee was moved around several times...I think that it is possible that Her skeleton remains were put in the larger trap at some time...maybe years after She died..She could have possibly been in the smaller one then moved out further into deeper water and placed in the larger one... I believe that there is a remark by Paulus where He says I had no idea that the ocean could be searched like that meaning by ROV..Anybody else remember this comment by Paulus? 

What condition and what position would those skeletal remains be in?

It seems to Me that the remains being underwater would definitely move around and would not be in the same position as when first put there...as far as condition of the remains I don't know... 

I don't know how to do an experiment on that one. 
The remains were wrapped in a tarp and weighted down with rocks.
I don't think it would have moved much.

So You are saying that when the remains were found they were wrapped up and weighted down.. So  the tarp was inside the cage not outside...I thought that I read that Kyle said that the tarp was outside the trap under the sand...

[Magnolia]

Hotping, I don't know for certain.
I had thought that it was said that a tarp had been
placed over the remains and weighted down.
I do remember about the tarp being outside the cage at
one time.

[Tamikosmom]

Klaasend, I am considering Kyles superimposed image and with a 42" hypotenuse it does not work.  And like I said, how would they find the trap in 90" of water.  Does Aruba keep the coordinates of every lost trap?  How would they find one?

Thanks!  I'm not disagreeing with you just picking your brain.  I don't think the trap itself (that trap) is something the Aruban fishermen would use, more likely it fell off a large fishing vessle passing by.

I'm trying to pick your brain too.  LOL

So if there are no fishing vessels like that in Aruba, how do we get the divers down to that lost trap?

IF you believe Capslock, the trap has been there for some time and used as a post office of sorts for drug drops.   Is 90 feet all that deep?  In my research it appeared that a good skin diver could do 90 feet.  With scuba gear it wouldnt' be a problem at all. 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #701 on: March 18, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »

t's impossible to tell with any precision, but we are in agreement that the trap was not recently dropped at the time of it's discovery.  By recent, I mean disposed the same season as when it was found.  From the level of marine growth and decomposition of the trap's rigging, tubular metal frame, and square coated wire mesh, the time involved would be on the order of years, but not 10s of years.  Neither the condition of the trap or state of the items found inside the trap preclude a disposal at or near the time of Natalee's disappearance.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

[hotping]

Hotping, I don't know for certain.
I had thought that it was said that a tarp had been
placed over the remains and weighted down.
I do remember about the tarp being outside the cage at
one time.

Confusing as H*ll isn't it...I will see later if I can find this information and maybe get it straight...Got to go for now..BBL

[hotping]

Klaasend, I am considering Kyles superimposed image and with a 42" hypotenuse it does not work.  And like I said, how would they find the trap in 90" of water.  Does Aruba keep the coordinates of every lost trap?  How would they find one?

Thanks!  I'm not disagreeing with you just picking your brain.  I don't think the trap itself (that trap) is something the Aruban fishermen would use, more likely it fell off a large fishing vessle passing by.

I'm trying to pick your brain too.  LOL

So if there are no fishing vessels like that in Aruba, how do we get the divers down to that lost trap?

IF you believe Capslock, the trap has been there for some time and used as a post office of sorts for drug drops.   Is 90 feet all that deep?  In my research it appeared that a good skin diver could do 90 feet.  With scuba gear it wouldnt' be a problem at all. 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #701 on: March 18, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »

t's impossible to tell with any precision, but we are in agreement that the trap was not recently dropped at the time of it's discovery.  By recent, I mean disposed the same season as when it was found.  From the level of marine growth and decomposition of the trap's rigging, tubular metal frame, and square coated wire mesh, the time involved would be on the order of years, but not 10s of years.  Neither the condition of the trap or state of the items found inside the trap preclude a disposal at or near the time of Natalee's disappearance.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

Thank You Janet...So this means that She Could have been placed in that trap much later after Her disappearance ...

[Tamikosmom]

I don't know how to do an experiment on that one. 
The remains were wrapped in a tarp and weighted down with rocks.
I don't think it would have moved much.

So You are saying that when the remains were found they were wrapped up and weighted down.. So  the tarp was inside the cage not outside...I thought that I read that Kyle said that the tarp was outside the trap under the sand...

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

The Tarp

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:  The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

[Keepthefaith]

KTF, I think you are right about this.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570184#msg570184

Kermit
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 2945


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:20 PM »  

From Kyle:
I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:41 PM »  

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2008, 01:21:08 PM »  

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

 
 

Comemencia+Clyde Burke+CapsLockWizard=Disinformation at it's finest?Just a thought..

[Keepthefaith]

KTF, I think you are right about this.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570184#msg570184

Kermit
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 2945


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:20 PM »  

From Kyle:
I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:41 PM »  

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2008, 01:21:08 PM »  

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

 
 

Comemencia+Clyde Burke+CapsLockWizard=Disinformation at it's finest?Just a thought..

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

[Tamikosmom]

Klaasend, I am considering Kyles superimposed image and with a 42" hypotenuse it does not work.  And like I said, how would they find the trap in 90" of water.  Does Aruba keep the coordinates of every lost trap?  How would they find one?

Thanks!  I'm not disagreeing with you just picking your brain.  I don't think the trap itself (that trap) is something the Aruban fishermen would use, more likely it fell off a large fishing vessle passing by.

I'm trying to pick your brain too.  LOL

So if there are no fishing vessels like that in Aruba, how do we get the divers down to that lost trap?

IF you believe Capslock, the trap has been there for some time and used as a post office of sorts for drug drops.   Is 90 feet all that deep?  In my research it appeared that a good skin diver could do 90 feet.  With scuba gear it wouldnt' be a problem at all. 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #701 on: March 18, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »

t's impossible to tell with any precision, but we are in agreement that the trap was not recently dropped at the time of it's discovery.  By recent, I mean disposed the same season as when it was found.  From the level of marine growth and decomposition of the trap's rigging, tubular metal frame, and square coated wire mesh, the time involved would be on the order of years, but not 10s of years.  Neither the condition of the trap or state of the items found inside the trap preclude a disposal at or near the time of Natalee's disappearance.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

Thank You Janet...So this means that She Could have been placed in that trap much later after Her disappearance ...

I am not sure.  My take was that Natalee Holloway could have been in that trap from almost the getgo.

 

The bedtime cobwebs have yet to clear. 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Klaasend, I am considering Kyles superimposed image and with a 42" hypotenuse it does not work.  And like I said, how would they find the trap in 90" of water.  Does Aruba keep the coordinates of every lost trap?  How would they find one?

Thanks!  I'm not disagreeing with you just picking your brain.  I don't think the trap itself (that trap) is something the Aruban fishermen would use, more likely it fell off a large fishing vessle passing by.

I'm trying to pick your brain too.  LOL

So if there are no fishing vessels like that in Aruba, how do we get the divers down to that lost trap?

IF you believe Capslock, the trap has been there for some time and used as a post office of sorts for drug drops.   Is 90 feet all that deep?  In my research it appeared that a good skin diver could do 90 feet.  With scuba gear it wouldnt' be a problem at all. 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #701 on: March 18, 2008, 03:03:52 PM »

t's impossible to tell with any precision, but we are in agreement that the trap was not recently dropped at the time of it's discovery.  By recent, I mean disposed the same season as when it was found.  From the level of marine growth and decomposition of the trap's rigging, tubular metal frame, and square coated wire mesh, the time involved would be on the order of years, but not 10s of years.  Neither the condition of the trap or state of the items found inside the trap preclude a disposal at or near the time of Natalee's disappearance.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

Thank You Janet...So this means that She Could have been placed in that trap much later after Her disappearance ...

I am not sure.  My take was that Natalee Holloway could have been in that trap from almost the getgo.

 

The bedtime cobwebs have yet to clear. 

Janet

I'll give you until 10am Janet!

[Magnolia]

I don't know how to do an experiment on that one. 
The remains were wrapped in a tarp and weighted down with rocks.
I don't think it would have moved much.

So You are saying that when the remains were found they were wrapped up and weighted down.. So  the tarp was inside the cage not outside...I thought that I read that Kyle said that the tarp was outside the trap under the sand...

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

The Tarp

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:  The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Thank you, Janet.  You are the best.

[Tamikosmom]

KTF, I think you are right about this.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4216.msg570184#msg570184

Kermit
Scared Monkey
Offline
Posts: 2945


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #147 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:20 PM »  

From Kyle:
I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #148 on: December 07, 2008, 01:20:41 PM »  

From Kyle: THis is what I'm trying to figure out now. I need to know the leak! I believe Caps is only one step away from DirtyHand

 
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 -
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2008, 01:21:08 PM »  

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

 
 

Comemencia+Clyde Burke+CapsLockWizard=Disinformation at it's finest?Just a thought..

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Good morning KeeptheFaith.

Not a clue.  The theories regarding Dirty Hand have keept changing since Shango entered the scene.  There are times I am doubtful that a single Dirty Hand exists.  That would give the Barney Fife Aruban gang too much credit.  I believe the coverup in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway encompasses many players from the Dutch/Aruban administrations that are beholding to one another one way or another.  My gut feeling tells me that Aruba's underground economy ... encompassing drugs, sex trade, pornograph, gambling, money laundering ... has a lot to do with it.

Janet   

[always 1]

Janet thank you for your reply to me last nite.  I missed it at first!!!!   Hugs.

[Tamikosmom]

I am not sure.  My take was that Natalee Holloway could have been in that trap from almost the getgo.

 

The bedtime cobwebs have yet to clear. 

Janet

I'll give you until 10am Janet!

I NEED A CUPPA STRONG TIM HORTON'S COFFEE!!!

 

Janet

[Anna]

From Kyle: We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does.
Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

I don't understand this.  A leak from who to whom?  A leak implies information being revealed that was hidden.  Whose information was being leaked?  Is Kyle speaking as though a member of ALE himself with that remark?