Monkey Musings Daily Open Discussion #14 2/2 -2/5/09

[mytime]

Hugs, Mytime.

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad about anything they were saying. I'm just saying that I'm a wuss and I'm not good at joining in fights. Everyone is welcome to fight amongst themselves, but please leave me out of it. 

I know BT!! You make a vaild point!!  It has been a while since I have been to church - so a freindly reminder is a good thing!!  IMO

((((Hug))))

[Seamonkey]

BT--wow!! you act so clueless...yet, you were right there when stuff happened to me too in gm. Do you even have a friggin clue why carnut asked for that vote on me?? Because when i read the post asking to vote me off misery island the whole lot of ya didnt even act like ya had a clue, yet there ya all were voting. Going on a word of a few, yet they not even knowing why. Can you say sheep following right off a cliff?? It was more to do with my association of the ones that left than anything, the posts proved it. In the vote me off thread where is it mentioned ONCE exactly why i was?? It isnt, more was said about what the others "did" which they didnt, but hey, you have ya wacko leader and his followers words to go on, so why should you feel the need to think or see for yourself. EIGHT People do NOT all of a sudden LEAVE a forum they were part of for so long WITHOUT damn good reason!!! GET YA FACTS STRAIGHT!!

[Anna]

There is a season for everything. . . .a time to speak and a time to be silent.  If your brother sins, rebuke him just as I will rebuke you because I love you.  Avoid evil.

I am just saying that those of us who will and do speak up have our reasons for doing so and no one has a monopoly of rightousness.

And I tolerated being called a LIAR and worse for two days before I ever even responded to a certain monkey on the Natalee forum, a moderator no less.  I had lied about nothing.  So finally I did defend myself because I think to do otherwise is a form of enabling and eventually would make me a part of the deceit.

Yes, we all see our role in response to things differently and I do think most of us try to do what we can determine to be the right thing.  There are certain things I just won't be a party to and collecting personal information on people for the purpose of stalking them on the internet or their children is just something I don't particupate in.  Not even in the context of providing a supporting role of audience.

JMO

[Keepthefaith]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

[crazybabyborg]

I've had this stuff on my mind all night and all morning. I've been oblivious to a lot of the details as they were happening, and seeing Klass's slideshow last night was a real shocker for me. I've digested some of it now.

Here's what I find so hard: If someone wanted to start another forum, fine. If posters want to belong to more than one, or even leave SM for a site that suits them better, then no problem. I know that friendships have been formed here, and it's rare that a poster wouldn't be missed, but certainly no ill will would be brought to a poster that leaves for his own reasons. Look at Robots; he is ever so fondly remembered and missed and any prospect that he would begin posting again is always met with excitement.

If there were disagreements over the facts or theory of a case, and those differing opinions were distinct enough to cause some to want to further their line of thinking elsewhere, among like minded people, then I believe there was provision within this forum to accommodate it. The Shango thread comes to my mind as evidence of that. However, even if a forum was created to persue that line of thinking, why trash the site and people you are leaving?

It is undeniable that SM has been the birthplace for the alliances that were transferred, and also undeniable that a great debt is owed to Red for that opportunity. It is also undeniable that without Klaas, SM would not have succeeded. Acknowledgement of that isn't opinion, it's simple truth.

It is also truth that many of the hurtful things I saw in those posts were from posters I know I felt genuine affection for, and so did many others. Lala's was always someone I could count on for good information and a wonderfully sharp sense of humor.  I won't pull out other individuals, but suffice it to say, that all were, at one time, held in high regard and part of a family formed around a good common cause.

I can only think of one reason that this new forum requires the secrecy, and "oath of SM hatred" that has so obviously been a cornerstone to its' foundation. There's lies and guilt in the mix, and just like Aruba, that sort of thing cannot exist in the light of day and openness.

I'm really saddened by it all. I've been a moderator here for a long time. I've never tracked a poster's whereabouts anywhere on this forum for the purpose of spying or questioning their loyalty. I've never ever seen a poster banned except for something really inappropriate. The O/T emphasis does fluctuate, but in general, the posters themselves play a part in determining where on the scale that emphasis is implemented. My own observance is that there is more tolerance during slow news times, and the moderators are responsive to direction on that.

I feel the loss of long time posters, and I'd like to leave it there. The viciousness in the posts I have read tell me that those who have left have regrets. It's glaringly obvious that the respect and caring afforded posters here, is not available where they are. I would also imagine that a handful of "special members" talking to each other day in and day out on any given topic is pretty boring as well. From the tenor of the posts, I expect that after the distribution of the code rings and spy glasses, the party will peter out.

BUT, since SM continues to be a place of lively discussion, I suppose they can always borrow our conversations second hand.............

[BTgirl]

BT--wow!! you act so clueless...yet, you were right there when stuff happened to me too in gm. Do you even have a friggin clue why carnut asked for that vote on me?? Because when i read the post asking to vote me off misery island the whole lot of ya didnt even act like ya had a clue, yet there ya all were voting. Going on a word of a few, yet they not even knowing why. Can you say sheep following right off a cliff?? It was more to do with my association of the ones that left than anything, the posts proved it. In the vote me off thread where is it mentioned ONCE exactly why i was?? It isnt, more was said about what the others "did" which they didnt, but hey, you have ya wacko leader and his followers words to go on, so why should you feel the need to think or see for yourself. EIGHT People do NOT all of a sudden LEAVE a forum they were part of for so long WITHOUT damn good reason!!! GET YA FACTS STRAIGHT!!

Seamonkey, I know what the eight of you feel happened, and I know what the people who stayed feel happened. We've already hashed that out on the forum where it happened. I don't want to fight it out again here. We're probably never going to completely agree, since people see things so differently. Those of us who stayed miss those of you who left, but we understand that it was your right and choice to leave as you did.

[Seamonkey]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

KTF..yeah..i find that amazing how one could. There are so many words for it. I wonder how many are missing knives...I bet i know where ya can find them.

[Keepthefaith]

I've had this stuff on my mind all night and all morning. I've been oblivious to a lot of the details as they were happening, and seeing Klass's slideshow last night was a real shocker for me. I've digested some of it now.

Here's what I find so hard: If someone wanted to start another forum, fine. If posters want to belong to more than one, or even leave SM for a site that suits them better, then no problem. I know that friendships have been formed here, and it's rare that a poster wouldn't be missed, but certainly no ill will would be brought to a poster that leaves for his own reasons. Look at Robots; he is ever so fondly remembered and missed and any prospect that he would begin posting again is always met with excitement.

If there were disagreements over the facts or theory of a case, and those differing opinions were distinct enough to cause some to want to further their line of thinking elsewhere, among like minded people, then I believe there was provision within this forum to accommodate it. The Shango thread comes to my mind as evidence of that. However, even if a forum was created to persue that line of thinking, why trash the site and people you are leaving?

It is undeniable that SM has been the birthplace for the alliances that were transferred, and also undeniable that a great debt is owed to Red for that opportunity. It is also undeniable that without Klaas, SM would not have succeeded. Acknowledgement of that isn't opinion, it's simple truth.

It is also truth that many of the hurtful things I saw in those posts were from posters I know I felt genuine affection for, and so did many others. Lala's was always someone I could count on for good information and a wonderfully sharp sense of humor.  I won't pull out other individuals, but suffice it to say, that all were, at one time, held in high regard and part of a family formed around a good common cause.

I can only think of one reason that this new forum requires the secrecy, and "oath of SM hatred" that has so obviously been a cornerstone to its' foundation. There's lies and guilt in the mix, and just like Aruba, that sort of thing cannot exist in the light of day and openness.

I'm really saddened by it all. I've been a moderator here for a long time. I've never tracked a poster's whereabouts anywhere on this forum for the purpose of spying or questioning their loyalty. I've never ever seen a poster banned except for something really inappropriate. The O/T emphasis does fluctuate, but in general, the posters themselves play a part in determining where on the scale that emphasis is implemented. My own observance is that there is more tolerance during slow news times, and the moderators are responsive to direction on that.

I feel the loss of long time posters, and I'd like to leave it there. The viciousness in the posts I have read tell me that those who have left have regrets. It's glaringly obvious that the respect and caring afforded posters here, is not available where they are. I would also imagine that a handful of "special members" talking to each other day in and day out on any given topic is pretty boring as well. From the tenor of the posts, I expect that after the distribution of the code rings and spy glasses, the party will peter out.

BUT, since SM continues to be a place of lively discussion, I suppose they can always borrow our conversations second hand.............

Very well put CBB.It shows ones character when you directly bash RED then you sit here at this moment and peruse his Forum...Doesn't get any better!

[crazybabyborg]

I've had this stuff on my mind all night and all morning. I've been oblivious to a lot of the details as they were happening, and seeing Klass's slideshow last night was a real shocker for me. I've digested some of it now.

Here's what I find so hard: If someone wanted to start another forum, fine. If posters want to belong to more than one, or even leave SM for a site that suits them better, then no problem. I know that friendships have been formed here, and it's rare that a poster wouldn't be missed, but certainly no ill will would be brought to a poster that leaves for his own reasons. Look at Robots; he is ever so fondly remembered and missed and any prospect that he would begin posting again is always met with excitement.

If there were disagreements over the facts or theory of a case, and those differing opinions were distinct enough to cause some to want to further their line of thinking elsewhere, among like minded people, then I believe there was provision within this forum to accommodate it. The Shango thread comes to my mind as evidence of that. However, even if a forum was created to persue that line of thinking, why trash the site and people you are leaving?

It is undeniable that SM has been the birthplace for the alliances that were transferred, and also undeniable that a great debt is owed to Red for that opportunity. It is also undeniable that without Klaas, SM would not have succeeded. Acknowledgement of that isn't opinion, it's simple truth.

It is also truth that many of the hurtful things I saw in those posts were from posters I know I felt genuine affection for, and so did many others. Lala's was always someone I could count on for good information and a wonderfully sharp sense of humor.  I won't pull out other individuals, but suffice it to say, that all were, at one time, held in high regard and part of a family formed around a good common cause.

I can only think of one reason that this new forum requires the secrecy, and "oath of SM hatred" that has so obviously been a cornerstone to its' foundation. There's lies and guilt in the mix, and just like Aruba, that sort of thing cannot exist in the light of day and openness.

I'm really saddened by it all. I've been a moderator here for a long time. I've never tracked a poster's whereabouts anywhere on this forum for the purpose of spying or questioning their loyalty. I've never ever seen a poster banned except for something really inappropriate. The O/T emphasis does fluctuate, but in general, the posters themselves play a part in determining where on the scale that emphasis is implemented. My own observance is that there is more tolerance during slow news times, and the moderators are responsive to direction on that.

I feel the loss of long time posters, and I'd like to leave it there. The viciousness in the posts I have read tell me that those who have left have regrets. It's glaringly obvious that the respect and caring afforded posters here, is not available where they are. I would also imagine that a handful of "special members" talking to each other day in and day out on any given topic is pretty boring as well. From the tenor of the posts, I expect that after the distribution of the code rings and spy glasses, the party will peter out.

BUT, since SM continues to be a place of lively discussion, I suppose they can always borrow our conversations second hand.............

Very well put CBB.It shows ones character when you directly bash RED then you sit here at this moment and peruse his Forum...Doesn't get any better!

Exactly!! I have a hard time cutting to the chase, but you've done it for me. Thanks, KTF!!   

[Tamikosmom]

I've had this stuff on my mind all night and all morning. I've been oblivious to a lot of the details as they were happening, and seeing Klass's slideshow last night was a real shocker for me. I've digested some of it now.

Here's what I find so hard: If someone wanted to start another forum, fine. If posters want to belong to more than one, or even leave SM for a site that suits them better, then no problem. I know that friendships have been formed here, and it's rare that a poster wouldn't be missed, but certainly no ill will would be brought to a poster that leaves for his own reasons. Look at Robots; he is ever so fondly remembered and missed and any prospect that he would begin posting again is always met with excitement.

If there were disagreements over the facts or theory of a case, and those differing opinions were distinct enough to cause some to want to further their line of thinking elsewhere, among like minded people, then I believe there was provision within this forum to accommodate it. The Shango thread comes to my mind as evidence of that. However, even if a forum was created to persue that line of thinking, why trash the site and people you are leaving?

It is undeniable that SM has been the birthplace for the alliances that were transferred, and also undeniable that a great debt is owed to Red for that opportunity. It is also undeniable that without Klaas, SM would not have succeeded. Acknowledgement of that isn't opinion, it's simple truth.

It is also truth that many of the hurtful things I saw in those posts were from posters I know I felt genuine affection for, and so did many others. Lala's was always someone I could count on for good information and a wonderfully sharp sense of humor.  I won't pull out other individuals, but suffice it to say, that all were, at one time, held in high regard and part of a family formed around a good common cause.

I can only think of one reason that this new forum requires the secrecy, and "oath of SM hatred" that has so obviously been a cornerstone to its' foundation. There's lies and guilt in the mix, and just like Aruba, that sort of thing cannot exist in the light of day and openness.

I'm really saddened by it all. I've been a moderator here for a long time. I've never tracked a poster's whereabouts anywhere on this forum for the purpose of spying or questioning their loyalty. I've never ever seen a poster banned except for something really inappropriate. The O/T emphasis does fluctuate, but in general, the posters themselves play a part in determining where on the scale that emphasis is implemented. My own observance is that there is more tolerance during slow news times, and the moderators are responsive to direction on that.

I feel the loss of long time posters, and I'd like to leave it there. The viciousness in the posts I have read tell me that those who have left have regrets. It's glaringly obvious that the respect and caring afforded posters here, is not available where they are. I would also imagine that a handful of "special members" talking to each other day in and day out on any given topic is pretty boring as well. From the tenor of the posts, I expect that after the distribution of the code rings and spy glasses, the party will peter out.

BUT, since SM continues to be a place of lively discussion, I suppose they can always borrow our conversations second hand.............

Thank you CBB.

Janet

[nonesuche]

CBB, as always you rise above and provide clarity. Thank heavens for you. {{ HUGS }}

Seamonkey I like your spine sistah!

I feel compelled to post this link below, it's been playing in my mind as a song from back in the day that we used to laugh about. I'm not laughing now.

I've learned a lot since joining this forum, I hope I've grown a lot as well. I"m not ever above reproach but I do learn from my hard lessons.

I just hope the song can make some of us laugh when we most need it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVC2j_Kdw8c

[Artcolley]

BT--wow!! you act so clueless...yet, you were right there when stuff happened to me too in gm. Do you even have a friggin clue why carnut asked for that vote on me?? Because when i read the post asking to vote me off misery island the whole lot of ya didnt even act like ya had a clue, yet there ya all were voting. Going on a word of a few, yet they not even knowing why. Can you say sheep following right off a cliff?? It was more to do with my association of the ones that left than anything, the posts proved it. In the vote me off thread where is it mentioned ONCE exactly why i was?? It isnt, more was said about what the others "did" which they didnt, but hey, you have ya wacko leader and his followers words to go on, so why should you feel the need to think or see for yourself. EIGHT People do NOT all of a sudden LEAVE a forum they were part of for so long WITHOUT damn good reason!!! GET YA FACTS STRAIGHT!!

Seamonkey, as I recall, BT wasn't even there the night this all happened. So I have no idea how she knows everything that went on. Hmm....could it be she was LIED to????? Naw......lol
But, she knows it all, now, doesn't she? How can anyone "FEEL" anything that they know nothing about? OH yeah, the two "leaks" were there spouting off, weren't they?  The same ones that are behind a lot of the "drive bys"...NAW...coudln't be, could it??????

[nonesuche]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

KTF..yeah..i find that amazing how one could. There are so many words for it. I wonder how many are missing knives...I bet i know where ya can find them.

[Seamonkey]

BT--wow!! you act so clueless...yet, you were right there when stuff happened to me too in gm. Do you even have a friggin clue why carnut asked for that vote on me?? Because when i read the post asking to vote me off misery island the whole lot of ya didnt even act like ya had a clue, yet there ya all were voting. Going on a word of a few, yet they not even knowing why. Can you say sheep following right off a cliff?? It was more to do with my association of the ones that left than anything, the posts proved it. In the vote me off thread where is it mentioned ONCE exactly why i was?? It isnt, more was said about what the others "did" which they didnt, but hey, you have ya wacko leader and his followers words to go on, so why should you feel the need to think or see for yourself. EIGHT People do NOT all of a sudden LEAVE a forum they were part of for so long WITHOUT damn good reason!!! GET YA FACTS STRAIGHT!!

Seamonkey, I know what the eight of you feel happened, and I know what the people who stayed feel happened. We've already hashed that out on the forum where it happened. I don't want to fight it out again here. We're probably never going to completely agree, since people see things so differently. Those of us who stayed miss those of you who left, but we understand that it was your right and choice to leave as you did.

well again, you have your facts wrong...heres fact, I went into chat that night to get carnut to tell the ladies himself of what he felt, instead of sending people to talk for him, while in that chat i mentioned "i will more than likely repeat what you say" but its best you tell them yourself....as many of you were repeating his words to them, at least I was up front and said I would. Umm next day..there is a post to vote me off "for mentioning stuff outside of the chat" Oh HELLOO??? so your fact of saying it was our choice was to leave? WRONG! where was MY CHOICE?? I was only there trying to patch stuff up, i wasnt even rotten or name calling, i was being totally diplomatic in all of it. OK part of it wasnt but thats because cat used one of my friends to go into chat so I used the name BigFATCAT..yes that was aimed at him and he knew it because i OPENLY said why i used that name in that chat that night. I was voted off for bein HONEST??? and for trying to patch  up the damage that was done?? You may have had your friends all back in that chat that night IF YOU HAD not all attacked the messenger!!!

NOW go back read the dang posts carnut hid that have all this in it and also the posts i made about him rippin off my mothers codes to her website and get ya facts straight.

Oh and mind you...when all that happened I had JUST gotten the new comp and was abloe to get into chat, i came back to see my friends upset, I went to chat to try to fix the problem as they were very upset..YEP first time in there in over a year and thats how im treated...Im met up with a voting off for sumtin I said i was gonna do..wasnt even a threat, i thought I was being truthful and thought people should know as nothing they dont want repeated wouldnt be while i was in there. My ONLY goal that night was to try to fix a MESS. Next day Im voted off for repeating stuff said in chat...sheesh...what a piss poor excuse. I had NO choice. If ya cant find the posts, I will surely and gladly post them all out in open ...but ya might wanna consider How carnut will feel about that if ya continue to go on about sumtin you clearly have no clue about.

[nonesuche]

For Klaas, this is from me to you.

Ain't No Stoppin You Now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKjC_simy8&feature=related

[Artcolley]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

KTF..yeah..i find that amazing how one could. There are so many words for it. I wonder how many are missing knives...I bet i know where ya can find them.

HOW APPROPRIATE< NONE!!!!
I love that cartoon. HOwever, I would have added a smiling face and halo on the one putting the knives into the backs of the others, lol 

[Keepthefaith]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

KTF..yeah..i find that amazing how one could. There are so many words for it. I wonder how many are missing knives...I bet i know where ya can find them.

If you've watched that slideshow and your in it bashing Red,Klaas,and or Scared Monkey's and your perusing this forum you should be ashamed!Period.If you feel no apology is necessary please go back to CnG!If there has already been an apology please forgive me!

KEEPTHEFAITH

[Tamikosmom]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

KTF..yeah..i find that amazing how one could. There are so many words for it. I wonder how many are missing knives...I bet i know where ya can find them.

none ... I wish I could harden to the back stabbing.  Actually ... in some respect ... I wish I had not viewed the slide show ... ignorance can be a blessing.

However ... curiosity is something akin to the lyrics of the song ....

"I wonder.  I wonder but ... I really don't want to know."

Janet

[klaasend]

Just got done watching the slideshow for the second time.Wow.People disrespecting Red,Klaas,as well as SM and their still posting and viewing here as i type!

Yes, so maybe you can understand if at times I come accross as a little "snippy" with them. 

[klaasend]

For Klaas, this is from me to you.

Ain't No Stoppin You Now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKjC_simy8&feature=related