Natalee Case Discussion #799 2/5/09 - 2/11/09

[jen3560]

I agree with everything you have said here, Janet. 

Also, IIRC, Kyle said that he watched the blue fabric "sway" in the water - that would be the blue "denim-like" fabric that is in the plastic bag on the right.
I was extremely relieved the day that Kyle posted the photo of the bags in the cage.  We all were, because at least there was SOMETHING to prove it actually happened - since the Arubans are (were?) in possession of the contents.

You recall correctly my dear. 

[wingnut]

What is the title of Dayhiker's book?

Janet

+++++++++

Hotshot just curious did you review Dayhiker aka Hiker's book too?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2WJVYS8S38EYZ
Hotshot's book reviews.

Jen??

wingnut??

SOMEBODY TALK TO ME!!!

 

I'm sorry - I know, but I won't say.  I don't think that will further Natalee's cause.  Plus, it is not "PC" to do so.  wink wink

[Tamikosmom]

What is the title of Dayhiker's book?

Janet

+++++++++

Hotshot just curious did you review Dayhiker aka Hiker's book too?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2WJVYS8S38EYZ
Hotshot's book reviews.

Jen??

wingnut??

SOMEBODY TALK TO ME!!!

 

I'm sorry - I know, but I won't say.  I don't think that will further Natalee's cause.  Plus, it is not "PC" to do so.  wink wink

wingnut ... There is a published book out there on the Natalee Holloway case written by Dayhiker ... the title must not be revealed to Tamikosmom.  It does not make sense.

I will not pursue the issue.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Lifesong- I just wanted to thank you for the researching you did on underwater images.

I know that will be helpful for others who may have questions.

Thanks, Jen.

I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that the images were tampered with in any meaningful or significant way. 

My intention is to avoid getting bogged down in areas of discussion that ultimately lead me no where.  My own concerns about the clarity of the images have been laid to rest.  I appreciate Monkey Mia raising the point, but I've moved on from that particular issue. 

That said, I am sensitive to the fact that at least two others, iirc, have expressed some question as to the evidence bags in the images.  I have not yet seen any image analysis at all by those claiming "hinkiness" on this particular issue, let alone anything that would convince me those bags were not sitting in that cage when the images were made. 

I'm happy to take my time with this particular subject, as I have also sensed a reluctance at this time to really "go there". 

Overall, however, I believe the burden is on those claiming there's something wrong with the bags in the images to actually back that up, not the other way around.  At that point, I'll be inclined to research further and decide if my opinion has been affected.

Lifesong

I have difficulty determining from the ROV images what the contents of the cage are but when I consider Kyle Kingsman's own words I am convinced that Natalee Holloway's remain could have been in that trap/cage.

I am not an expertise in the field of analyzing ROV images.  However ... Kyle Kingman's qualifications are very impressive.  I image that is the reason John Silvetti took him on in the Egypt endeavor last summer.

Also ... logic dictates that Tim Trahan, Louis Shaefer, and Kyle Kingman were not attempting to make a deal with major networks if there was "nothing" case related placed in that trap/cage.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Professional Qualifications
 
Kyle Kingman
Senior Geophysical Project Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
Greater New York City Area
 
Current
Senior Geophysical Operations Manager at Alpine Ocean Seismic Survey Inc.
 
Past
Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
 
Education
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick

Industry
Oil & Energy
_______
 
Kyle Kingman’s Summary

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:
 
Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

I agree with everything you have said here, Janet. 

Also, IIRC, Kyle said that he watched the blue fabric "sway" in the water - that would be the blue "denim-like" fabric that is in the plastic bag on the right.

I was extremely relieved the day that Kyle posted the photo of the bags in the cage.  We all were, because at least there was SOMETHING to prove it actually happened - since the Arubans are (were?) in possession of the contents.

LOGIC DICTATES

[jen3560]

Lifesong- I just wanted to thank you for the researching you did on underwater images.

I know that will be helpful for others who may have questions.

Thanks, Jen.

I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that the images were tampered with in any meaningful or significant way. 

My intention is to avoid getting bogged down in areas of discussion that ultimately lead me no where.  My own concerns about the clarity of the images have been laid to rest.  I appreciate Monkey Mia raising the point, but I've moved on from that particular issue. 

That said, I am sensitive to the fact that at least two others, iirc, have expressed some question as to the evidence bags in the images.  I have not yet seen any image analysis at all by those claiming "hinkiness" on this particular issue, let alone anything that would convince me those bags were not sitting in that cage when the images were made. 

I'm happy to take my time with this particular subject, as I have also sensed a reluctance at this time to really "go there". 

Overall, however, I believe the burden is on those claiming there's something wrong with the bags in the images to actually back that up, not the other way around.  At that point, I'll be inclined to research further and decide if my opinion has been affected.

I appreciate the way your mind works.

I may have said this here before, I don't remember.

For me - it would have made no sense whatsoever for Kyle to have manipulated any images prior to sharing them with us.

He was made aware before he joined our forum that a member of Natalee's family was there with us.

So if Kyle were to have manipulated any images (or otherwise lied in any fashion about the activities surrounding that cage) and were to have been found out as having perpetuated a fraud against Natalee's family - well......... I give Kyle's intelligence level more credit than that.

[Keepthefaith]

After getting caught up.I saw that the photoshopping argument is being brought up.Again.Kyle is trained to analyze these things.No where at anytime am i aware that Kyle say's these photo's are doctored,and or photoshopped.I have a feeling he will NEVER say these photos are anything other than what they are!Jen,and or wingnut.Can you say with certainty that Kyle not once broached the subject of these photos being altered at anytime that you are aware of?TIA

KEEPTHFAITH

[Keepthefaith]

I think you already answered the question whil i was typing my post Jen.Thanx!

[jen3560]

I think you already answered the question whil i was typing my post Jen.Thanx!

 

[Keepthefaith]

KERMIT

"Kyle posted June 13, 2008 2:37 pm
He [John Silvetti] has been talking to polis officials and OM, but I don't know the extent lately.
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.


The IRS filed a $22 million priority claim against Superior Offshore
http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.708248/browse_thread/thread/6d705c29101cd2f2


KYLE WAS IN EGYPT
look at who Superior Offshore's subsidiary:
(its overseas diving subsidiary Subtech goes under in Africa, the United Arab Emirates
http://moneycentral.hoovers.com/global/msn/factsheet.xhtml?COID=152880
Superior Offshore International, Inc.
717 Texas Ave., Ste. 3150
Houston, TX 77002       
Phone: 713-910-1875
Fax: 713-910-1881
Toll Free: 877-367-5986
You could say that Superior Offshore International dives right into its work. Serving the oil and gas industry, the company specializes in subsea construction and commercial diving services (its overseas diving subsidiary Subtech goes under in Africa, the United Arab Emirates, and Latin America). Services include installation, upgrading and decommissioning of pipelines and platform infrastructure, as well as inspection, maintenance, and repair services performed by highly trained divers. Superior Offshore International serves large integrated energy companies and independent companies that specialize in oil and natural gas exploration, production, gathering, and transmission in the Gulf of Mexico.   
http://moneycentral.hoovers.com/global/msn/factsheet.xhtml?COID=152880


Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.
/http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.300

[Keepthefaith]

KERMIT

WHAT WAS JOHN SILVETTI REALLY AFTER?

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount. So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world. The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after.  It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found herI don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4371.msg625934#msg625934

Kyle:After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains


I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil[/u]...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.
Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer


Kyle said: June 29, 2008: I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours.

[Keepthefaith]

KEEPTHEFAITH

I'm also still intrigued with the Antonio Carlo,Paulus connection?Why go into practice with Carlo?Who owe's who in this relationship?


KERMIT

"How else would you protect money laundering, heroin....

Mark Purcell's wife, Marlene Purcell along with Antonio Carlos are involved in the AHATAboard as well.
Antonio Carlos worked for Johan Paul Sjiem Fat, Sjiem Fat & Sjiem Fat, Aruba

 Paulus Van der Sloot participated on a panel which agreed to extradite two relatives of the Mansurs to the US under serious charges some years back

Antonio Carlos worked for the gov't and banks in Aruba."

[Keepthefaith]

KERMIT

"Beth KNOWS what I have been working on.
And I know exactly what Beth wants.

Everyone who wants to doubt or believe whatever someone else is telling them are free to do so.

Those individuals who want to call me names, be insidious will continue to do so, but it won't stop
the good people from bringing the truth out and expose the Aruba cover-up.
I believe the monkeys stand together!"

[Keepthefaith]

KERMIT

"Beth KNOWS what I have been working on.
And I know exactly what Beth wants.

Everyone who wants to doubt or believe whatever someone else is telling them are free to do so.

Those individuals who want to call me names, be insidious will continue to do so, but it won't stop
the good people from bringing the truth out and expose the Aruba cover-up.
I believe the monkeys stand together!"

[Keepthefaith]

 

       BACK ON TRACK....GO MONKEY'S...BACK ON TRACK...GO MONKEY'S

[Keepthefaith]

Great posts Lifesong.Here,as well as in musings!

[Lifesong]

Thank you KTF, Tamikosmom & Jen.

We are all in agreement about the ROV images.

It would have been professional suicide for Kyle to fake any of this.  He has shown himself much to eager to cash in on Natalee & her family to take that kind of financial risk with his own career.

That much I feel is certain.

His second biggest mistake was underestimating the Freebirds.   

[Keepthefaith]

Thank you KTF, Tamikosmom & Jen.

We are all in agreement about the ROV images.

It would have been professional suicide for Kyle to fake any of this.  He has shown himself much to eager to cash in on Natalee & her family to take that kind of financial risk with his own career.

That much I feel is certain.

His second biggest mistake was underestimating the Freebirds.   

Professional suicide is the key.To misconstrue,and or lie about what you are analyzing would not be the wisest thing to do.Hence.That's why he didn't do it.Then you have the Kyle is a scammer acting like a 14yr old.Pleeeeeaaaasssseeeee!!!!!!OK.Just for a minute.Entertain the argument that Kyle was trying to scam.Who?The FBI,Beth Holloway,Dave Holloway,Jug,Robin,The TV companies,as well as the Freebirds.What kinda Federal charges would that incur?

[jen3560]

Thank you KTF, Tamikosmom & Jen.

We are all in agreement about the ROV images.

It would have been professional suicide for Kyle to fake any of this.  He has shown himself much to eager to cash in on Natalee & her family to take that kind of financial risk with his own career.

That much I feel is certain.

His second biggest mistake was underestimating the Freebirds.   

His first biggest mistake was obviously not having shared this information with Beth and Dave, the FBI, and whatever other calvary he could have thought of on January 7, 2008.

[Edward]

KERMIT

"Beth KNOWS what I have been working on.
And I know exactly what Beth wants.

Well, I feel better about this already... 

What does she want ? ???  What can We Do To Help ?

[Lifesong]

I do have something to say about all this nonsense regarding putting anyone's life in danger.

Anyone, whether inside ALE or with ties to ALE, who actually knows the truth about any aspect of this case and the coverup, whether they were involved in it or watched it happen firsthand, has now had four & a half years to prepare and put themselves in a position to expose it.

I have no more patience for cowards or secret sources.

If, for example, Clyde Burke, does know the truth and isn't involved in perpetuating the coverup, then in my opinion its time for him to quit hiding and be a man.  He has plenty of options to secure his family and himself if he is concerned about safety and livelihood issues.  Again, he's had 4.5 years to prepare, that's more than enough time. 

If you're Clyde Burke, or any other ALE detective, and you know the truth, don't pretend like you want to help the case get solved.  Get off your butt and start looking up your chain of command until you find the one honest person in it with enough power to act on your information. 

If you don't want to do that, get your family to America (or wherever) and get on the news.  Name names, places, times.  Who was bought off, who did favors for free, where is she, where was she, what happened.  Stop playing games with this family just to cover your own behind.

Same goes for CAPS. 

If Clyde Burke or CAPs or any other so-called secret source is killed in Aruba, it won't be because they were mentioned on a public (or private) internet message board.  It will be because they were a jackass playing ridiculous games with people's lives and too cowardly to do the right thing. 

It's just not that complicated, imo.

And I'm making my opinion clear here, because going forward I can't imagine I'm going to have any real compunction about calling these people out.  It's just enough.  How many years do they need? 

If I'm wrong about this, I am quite certain that Red/Klaas/theAmazingMods will not allow me to use this forum to undermine the family.  If Natalee's family thinks someone is helping them and needs to be kept secret, I am confident their wishes will be honored here.

Just sayin'...