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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #799 2/5/09 - 2/11/09  (Read 214441 times)
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Icehawk
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« Reply #520 on: February 07, 2009, 05:08:09 PM »

Hi All.


Has this name Nino croes ever been mentioned.

Not that I can recall.  They have pretty good english though.

Quote
Nino Croes
anton@setarnet.aw
31 Mar 2004
19:16:32


Hi I am from Aruba and work at the Divi Village. I have some good idea for everyone who want to have a nice vacation here in Aruba. First you can buy a cell-phone so you don't have to use your phone in your room whitch is too expensive. Local calls will be cheaper than than hotel phone. But also you can buy prepaid phonecard whitch you can use at the cabin around the island. But than you have to go around to find one. That is why a cell-phone is more helpfull. You can make international calls too. For a minute you pay about 60 cent to call USA and Canada. Or it could be cheaper too. And at night it more cheaper. Where to buy cell-phone? At the teleshop behind Royal Plaza you can buy the cell-phone of your choice. When you go home you can take it with you and bring it back next year.No fee to open a prepaid cell phone. Just buy the card to charge it and enjoy your calls.

Regards

http://www.visitaruba.com/guestbook/guests2004.html





Yes that's what I found. And it led me to Arubian Vatos
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« Reply #521 on: February 07, 2009, 05:38:29 PM »

Hotping, you are right....one 'f'.  Thanks.

Lifesong,

What do you think about the ripped pants pic?
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=145480547&albumID=1933832&imageID=18608484#a=1933832&i=18198120


2NJ,

I think that's a pretty big tv for a boat.

    

Seriously though, if "Matt" is the "ROV guy", what did he see and what does he know?  I can only assume until we have more information, that Matt operated the ROV and Kyle operated the cameras and analysed the images.  If that's the case, Matt would have to be looking at the screen to get visuals on positioning the ROV.  He saw everything Kyle saw. 

What did Matt see?

Sorry, I am not sure I would know how to do a side by side, but it's the boat, regardless of the TV size.  I found this in Blonde's Search for Natalee thread.

You have a point about Matt.



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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
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« Reply #522 on: February 07, 2009, 05:41:49 PM »


That's Eduardo, yes?

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texasmom
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« Reply #523 on: February 07, 2009, 05:57:23 PM »

Hotping, you are right....one 'f'.  Thanks.

Lifesong,

What do you think about the ripped pants pic?
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=145480547&albumID=1933832&imageID=18608484#a=1933832&i=18198120


2NJ,

I think that's a pretty big tv for a boat.

    

Seriously though, if "Matt" is the "ROV guy", what did he see and what does he know?  I can only assume until we have more information, that Matt operated the ROV and Kyle operated the cameras and analysed the images.  If that's the case, Matt would have to be looking at the screen to get visuals on positioning the ROV.  He saw everything Kyle saw. 

What did Matt see?

Sorry, I am not sure I would know how to do a side by side, but it's the boat, regardless of the TV size.  I found this in Blonde's Search for Natalee thread.

You have a point about Matt.






Didn't take long at all to set that profile to "private".   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Edward
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« Reply #524 on: February 07, 2009, 05:57:48 PM »

That is probably the denim they used..and that was seen.
jmho
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« Reply #525 on: February 07, 2009, 06:06:11 PM »

That is probably the denim they used..and that was seen.
jmho

Edward,  that is the thought I had when I saw that picture.  Sad/sick thought.....but denim, it is.
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
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« Reply #526 on: February 07, 2009, 06:14:30 PM »

Texasmom,

Good eye, finding the site is set to private, now.   

I've been too busy this afternoon to be here for any length of time, and will be leaving for a fundraiser dance.  Won't be back until late. 
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
Lifesong
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« Reply #527 on: February 07, 2009, 06:16:19 PM »

That is probably the denim they used..and that was seen.
jmho

Edward,  that is the thought I had when I saw that picture.  Sad/sick thought.....but denim, it is.


That never even occurred to me.   
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."  - Galileo
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« Reply #528 on: February 07, 2009, 06:22:03 PM »

That is probably the denim they used..and that was seen.
jmho

Clean, neat edges.  Those pants were cut and not torn.

Guess that helps clear the denim question up.

 
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« Reply #529 on: February 07, 2009, 06:23:39 PM »

Thanks for telling me that is an older photo of Dompig.  I have actually had nightmares about that man.  I know Rudy called him a "tremendous" police chief and am fearful that any day we will read he has been reinstated.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #530 on: February 07, 2009, 06:25:50 PM »

I do hope our Dutch posters are noting that we go after our own just as much or maybe more when we think they may have been involved in wrong-doing.

Normally, I don't think of myself as dense, although I may well be, I can't follow that company conglomerate information.

Unless somebody can make a flow chart, I will never understand it.  It's not necessary that I do however if others can.

Good work even though I don't like the picutre that is emerging.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
texasmom
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« Reply #531 on: February 07, 2009, 06:37:17 PM »

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/undocs/session67/view883.htm


Messrs. L. E. and J. Mansur (represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona and Mr. John H. van der Kuyp) v. the Netherlands, Communication No. 883/1999, U.N. Doc. CCPR/C/67/D/883/1999 (9 November 1999).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messrs. L. E. and J. Mansur (represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona and Mr. John H. van der Kuyp) v. the Netherlands, Communication No. 883/1999, U.N. Doc. CCPR/C/67/D/883/1999 (9 November 1999).
Distr. RESTRICTED*

CCPR/C/67/D/883/1999


9 November 1999

Original: ENGLISH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HUMAN RIGHTS COMMITTEE

Sixty-seventh session

18 October - 5 November 1999


VIEWS

Submitted by: Messrs. L. E. and J. Mansur (represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona and Mr. John H. van der Kuyp)

Alleged victim: The authors


State party: The Netherlands


Date of the communication: 12 October 1999

Date of adoption of Views: 9 November 1999

On 9 November 1999, the Human Rights Committee adopted its Views under article 5, paragraph 4, of the Optional Protocol in respect of communication No. 883/1999. The text of the Views is appended to the present document.

[ANNEX]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANNEX*

DECISIONS OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMITTEE DECLARING COMMUNICATIONS INADMISSIBLE UNDER THE OPTIONAL PROTOCOL TO THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON CIVIL AND POLITICAL RIGHTS

-Sixty-seventh session -

concerning



Communication No. 883/1999

Submitted by: Messrs. L. E. and J. Mansur (represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona and Mr. John H. van der Kuyp)

Alleged victim: The authors


State party: The Netherlands


Date of the communication: 12 October 1999


The Human Rights Committee, established under article 28 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,


Meeting on 5 November 1999


Adopts the following:

Decision on admissibility

1. The authors of the communication are Luis Emilio Mansur and Jossy Mehsen Mansur, Dutch citizens who are residents of Aruba. They claim to be victims of violations by the Kingdom of the Netherlands of their rights under articles 2 and 17 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The victims are represented by Dr. Jan M. Sjöcrona of The Hague, the Netherlands and Mr. John H. Van der Kuyp of Oranjestad, Aruba.


The facts as submitted by the authorsThe facts as submitted by the authors



2.1 The authors are members of the business community in Aruba. Among other enterprises Luis Emilio Mansur is co-owner of a shipping company and Jossy Mehren Mansur is owner and editor-in-chief of a newspaper and co-owner of a trading company.


2.2 Under a Royal Decree of 22 October 1994 the Interim Head of Aruban Security Service, A. Koerten, was instructed to carry out an investigation into the security and integrity of Aruba. A report on this investigation was produced on 20 April 1995, entitled Security and Integrity of Aruba: Context and Perspective.


2.3 The report was issued as top secret and was sent to a limited number of state officials and institutions, named in the report.


2.4 The report draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are Aalmost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels.@ The report mentions the authors by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities.


2.5 Despite the fact that the report was classified as top secret it was leaked to the press and its contents became public. It is not clear who leaked the report. An investigation of the leak was carried out by the Dutch Internal Security Service in which it was supposedly found that the leaked photocopy was not made from a copy in the hands of the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs or another Dutch official. The investigation report did not state of which copy the photocopy was made.


2.6 The authors claim that the allegations against them in the report are totally false and that as a result of the report becoming public their reputations were severely harmed. This led to serious damage to their business interests. They claim that by allowing the report to become public the State party violated their rights not to be subjected to unlawful attacks on their honour and reputation, protected under article 17 of the Covenant.


2.7 The authors requested the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs to disassociate himself from the report. When he refused, they initiated summary proceedings in the court of first instance in Aruba. In these proceedings they requested a declaration that the State party, the Minister of Dutch-Antillean and Aruban Affairs and the Interim Head of the Security Service of Aruba had no evidence that the authors were involved in laundering money or in fraudulent actions.


2.8 The court of first instance ruled that it had no competence to peruse the claim against the State party and that the Official Secrets Act justified refusing a remedy against the Interim Head of Security.


2.9 The authors filed an appeal against the dismissal of their summary action with the Joint Court of Justice of the Dutch Antilles and Aruba. Contrary to the judgment of the lower court this court held that the courts were competent to peruse a claim against the State party. However, the Court held that the authors had failed to demonstrate, nor make probable, that the defendants had been negligent in allowing publication of the report and that they could not be held responsible for acting in violation of article 17 of the Covenant.


2.10 The authors did not challenge the above decision before the Netherlands Supreme Court as they were advised by a Dutch cassation attorney that they had no grounds for a successful cassation appeal.


The author's claimsThe author's claims


3.1 The authors claim that by not preventing publication of the information relating to them contained in the secret report the State party has violated their rights under article 17 of the Covenant. They further claim that the directives of the State party regarding classification of secret information and the requirement of the Court in the summary proceedings that the authors prove the negligence of the State party result in a violation of the duty of the State party, under article 2, paragraph 3, of the Covenant, to provide an effective remedy for violation of their rights under article 17.


3.2 The authors claim that by pursuing summary proceedings they have exhausted domestic remedies. They concede, however, that the domestic law does Aoffer the possibility of a civil standard procedure (before the same instance as where the summary proceedings were lost), yet going through this procedure takes up at least 4 to 6 years (in view of the existing possibilities for appeal and cassation).


Issues and Proceeding before the Committee


4.1 Before considering any claim contained in a communication, the Human Rights Committtee must, in accordance with rule 87 of its Rules of Procedure, decide whether or not it is admissible under the Optional Protocol to the Covenant.


4.2 From the materials presented by the authors it is clear that within the framework of summary proceedings the domestic courts could not examine the factual allegations of the authors. These could only be examined in a standard civil action. The authors have conceded that they have not commenced a standard civil procedure against the State party for a remedy for the alleged attack on their honour and reputation in violation of article 17 of the Covenant. In the circumstances, the Committee cannot accept the mere assertion by the authors that the application of domestic remedies will be unreasonably prolonged. Accordingly, the communication is inadmissible under article 5, paragraph 2 (b) of the Optional Protocol.


5. The Human Rights Committee therefore decides:


(a) that the communication is inadmissible under article 5, paragraph 2 (b) of the Optional Protocol;

(b) that this decision shall be communicated to the authors and, for information, to the State party.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Made public by decision of the Human Rights Committee.

View 883

*The following members of the Committee participated in the examination of the present communication: Mr. Abdelfattah Amor, Mr. Nisuke Ando, Mr. Prafullachandra N. Bhagwati, Ms. Christine Chanet, Lord Colville, Ms. Elizabeth Evatt, Mr. Eckart Klein, Mr. David Kretzmer, Ms. Cecilia Medina Quiroga, Mr. Fausto Pocar, Mr. Martin Scheinin, Mr. Hipólito Solari Yrigoyen, Mr. Roman Wieruszewski and Mr. Maxwell Yalden.


[Adopted in English, French and Spanish, the English text being the original version. Subsequently to be translated also in Arabic, Chinese and Russian as part of the Committee's annual report to the General Assembly.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


__________________________________________________________________

La Cabana per Aruba Chamber Registry

http://www.arubachamber.com/registry/registry_result.afp?KeyValue=10581


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566711#msg566711

CapsLockWizard
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   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #597 on: December 04, 2008, 03:40:45 PM »
 

Quote
John van der Kuip got exclusive info on the case and went to holland intellignet to speak on the case.

came back to Aruba

Last thing he drank was coffee and died not even 10 minutes later at home.

Couse of dead never was performed.
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #532 on: February 07, 2009, 06:52:14 PM »



.

STAY AWAY FROM THAT ARUBAN COFFEE!

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #533 on: February 07, 2009, 06:55:28 PM »

Another link to a document I found interesting RE: Mansur

http://www.trusteesinforms.com/IMPERIAL%20TRUST%20N.V/ImpTrust%20defEnglish%2018Sep03.pdf
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #534 on: February 07, 2009, 07:07:18 PM »

Someone needs to explain to Rudy that the CIA doesn't investigate corruption internally.  That's the FBI's job.

And since several in Aruba trained at the FBI, so it is claimed, they should fully understand the various functions of the different agencies.  Guess this is a reflection of their general failure to grasp things very factually.

Rudy's buddy Dompig should be able to explain it all to him perfectly since he is supposed to be one of those trained by the FBI.

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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #535 on: February 07, 2009, 07:14:07 PM »

 

Timing....

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=897

Papiamentu translation:

judge y abogadonan owing to as 1 minuut of silencio for defunto mr. john van der kuyp

thursday, 06 march 2008

oranjestad – yesterday morning first cu judge owing to cuminsa read the sentencianan of casonan sumario y also casonan civil, past owing to dedica some word at mr. john van der kuyp that tuesday in oranan of nightfall diripiente owing to become bad y owing to fayece. first cu judge owing to cuminsa take away word, all the abogadonan present owing to arise stop for so show the respet y tributo at mr. john van der kuyp. judge owing to tell cu mr. john van der kuyp by 1986 is registra because; advocate y is one person cu owing to haci much for country aruba provided that especial in the part huridico. judge owing to tell cu tuesday nightfall all the personal of corte owing to stay conmovi cu the lamentable news cu mr. john van der kuyp owing to fayece. past owing to tell cu mr. john van der kuyp owing to bay let we at one edad relativamente young esta 64 year. judge owing to describi cu mr. john van der kuyp was one person much ocupa y such vez that was the motibo also cu past owing to bay let we so early. after of the words here, judge owing to ask all present for as one minuut of silencio because; tributo at mr. john van der kuyp.tabata momentonan cu are you feel cu much person was afecta cu the dead repentino of mr. john van der kuyp, provided that especial the abogadonan cu owing to work cune y esnan cu conoce good. cu mr. john van der kuyp sosega at peace. come across
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Anna
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« Reply #536 on: February 07, 2009, 07:14:29 PM »

Tamarijn Aruba All Inclusive
Kids Free  5 Nights From $899

Including airfare.

Pretty soon they will be paying you to stay there!

Don't, however, no matter how cheap it is.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Lifesong
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« Reply #537 on: February 07, 2009, 07:26:50 PM »


<<snipped: the part that should definately be read & thank you texasmom for posting it.>>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566711#msg566711

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   Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #597 on: December 04, 2008, 03:40:45 PM »
 

Quote
John van der Kuip got exclusive info on the case and went to holland intellignet to speak on the case.

came back to Aruba

Last thing he drank was coffee and died not even 10 minutes later at home.

Couse of dead never was performed.


That happened to Tim Russert at work. 

He had a heart attack.


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« Reply #538 on: February 07, 2009, 08:33:07 PM »

I think the connection among Silvetti, Schaefer, Trahan
and the others lies in the projects they work on, not on
paperwork of companies.  They are all in the business
of retrieving oil and gas from beneath the sea.  They are
probably friends and they talk and compare notes and bid
the same jobs.  Each one is just as crooked as the next
and they know to not put too much trust in one another.
There is no honor among thieves.
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« Reply #539 on: February 07, 2009, 08:51:51 PM »

I think the connection among Silvetti, Schaefer, Trahan
and the others lies in the projects they work on, not on
paperwork of companies.  They are all in the business
of retrieving oil and gas from beneath the sea.  They are
probably friends and they talk and compare notes and bid
the same jobs.  Each one is just as crooked as the next
and they know to not put too much trust in one another.
There is no honor among thieves.

I agree.
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