Caylee Marie Anthony #103 4/04/09 - 4/07/09

[darla]

Goodnight Monkeys....Hope everyone has a great night.

[Leroy]

Goodnight Monkeys....Hope everyone has a great night.

Sweet dreams Darla...and I loved your post to Wendi....you are a very caring monkey!

[VinceVixen]

SHOULD CINDY AND GEORGE NOT BE PUNISHED FOR CASEY'S SINS?

First I want to preface this by saying that I think:
CASEY IS 100% RESPONSIBLE AND SHOULD ROT IN JAIL FOR LIFE...

But.. How much can we say George and Cindy should get away with for Casey turning out the way she did?

So... We know that a person's behavior stems from two things: GENETICS and ENVIRONMENT

GENETICS: Well we all know where she gets these from... Cindy and George (although I've heard he might not be the bio dad). Their family history does not seem promising in this category, but yet we cannot blame someone's action based solely on genetics, or else any criminal with a bad family history can use the defense that it was in their "blood" to commit the crime. So this leaves...

ENVIRONMENT: Again, this includes Cindy and George. We then add Lee and all of Casey's friends.

FRIENDS: I believe a great deal of influence comes from a person's friends' standards and how persuasive they are in getting you to do what they want. I do not think that ANY of Casey's friends would tell her that she would be better off without a child. Tony might be the exception because he did not want Caylee around, however, I do not think his actions or morals would condone Casey killing her own kid.

LEE: Lee got mad at Casey for getting pregnant. Here I think is where Casey started her resentment for Caylee. Her brother and probably best friend was angry at her. She probably felt that Caylee was a burden.

GEORGE: Ah, George, although he is the most honest of the bunch, we cannot let him slide that easily. The whole suicide attempt, whether it was a cry for help or an actual attempt, it shows that he believes when things get too tough, just take the easy way out. He didn't like the situation he was in, so he decided to take his life. Casey didn't like her situation, so she took her daughter's life. He also treated Casey like she was a princess and could do no harm. He made her think that she was always the boss, that the world revolved around her, and that she could get away with anything. He unintentionally and nonverbally condoned her behavior by not checking it while she was running wild.

CINDY: This is where Casey got most of her attitude and thinking from. Cindy probably constantly told Casey that she was a bad mother, that she didn't deserve Caylee, and that Caylee would be better off without her. If you tell someone something negative enough times, they start believing it. Casey knew she was a bad mother so she made no real connection to Caylee. This is why I don't understand why Cindy didn't just take Caylee from the beginning. Cindy also has shown that it is ok to lie or bend the truth if it means getting away with something wrong. Cindy has countless times taken back what she had said before and lies to cover up for Casey. Casey learned this behavior from Cindy.

Now, what responsibility to parents have to the way their children turn out? When a child grows up to be an exceptional person, their parents are always praised for raising them so well. But when a child is a criminal, can we say that the parents have NO part in the way they turned out?

Again, I believe Casey should take full blame and stay in jail where she will be miserable, but what do you guys think should be done with Cindy and George?

Sorry... Long rant...

Wow!  Well to start with, the part I bolded above is intersting and I had never really thought of it that way....but, you are right, they should be held accountable but to what degree?...I'm not sure.  What I do know is that if any of the Ant's had a role in the cover-up of Caylee's death, then for sure they should be punished to the full extent. 

The rest I'm going to think about for a bit, but I really like this post....got me thinking!!

Well thank you for replying! I was afraid no one would, but I started thinking about this last night, and I was wondering what everyone else on here thought about it. I too believe that if the A's knowingly covered up the truth, then yes, they should be taken to court and to jail. But what if they didn't intentionally cover things up (although, we have proof they did), then do they get away scott free?

AGAIN... THANKS FOR REPLYING! I appreciate it.

[darla]

Thank you Leroy...I just can not stand to see someone suffering. Just breaks my heart.. I wish I could adopt all the ones who feel so alone.

[Leroy]

SHOULD CINDY AND GEORGE NOT BE PUNISHED FOR CASEY'S SINS?

First I want to preface this by saying that I think:
CASEY IS 100% RESPONSIBLE AND SHOULD ROT IN JAIL FOR LIFE...

But.. How much can we say George and Cindy should get away with for Casey turning out the way she did?

So... We know that a person's behavior stems from two things: GENETICS and ENVIRONMENT

GENETICS: Well we all know where she gets these from... Cindy and George (although I've heard he might not be the bio dad). Their family history does not seem promising in this category, but yet we cannot blame someone's action based solely on genetics, or else any criminal with a bad family history can use the defense that it was in their "blood" to commit the crime. So this leaves...

ENVIRONMENT: Again, this includes Cindy and George. We then add Lee and all of Casey's friends.

FRIENDS: I believe a great deal of influence comes from a person's friends' standards and how persuasive they are in getting you to do what they want. I do not think that ANY of Casey's friends would tell her that she would be better off without a child. Tony might be the exception because he did not want Caylee around, however, I do not think his actions or morals would condone Casey killing her own kid.

LEE: Lee got mad at Casey for getting pregnant. Here I think is where Casey started her resentment for Caylee. Her brother and probably best friend was angry at her. She probably felt that Caylee was a burden.

GEORGE: Ah, George, although he is the most honest of the bunch, we cannot let him slide that easily. The whole suicide attempt, whether it was a cry for help or an actual attempt, it shows that he believes when things get too tough, just take the easy way out. He didn't like the situation he was in, so he decided to take his life. Casey didn't like her situation, so she took her daughter's life. He also treated Casey like she was a princess and could do no harm. He made her think that she was always the boss, that the world revolved around her, and that she could get away with anything. He unintentionally and nonverbally condoned her behavior by not checking it while she was running wild.

CINDY: This is where Casey got most of her attitude and thinking from. Cindy probably constantly told Casey that she was a bad mother, that she didn't deserve Caylee, and that Caylee would be better off without her. If you tell someone something negative enough times, they start believing it. Casey knew she was a bad mother so she made no real connection to Caylee. This is why I don't understand why Cindy didn't just take Caylee from the beginning. Cindy also has shown that it is ok to lie or bend the truth if it means getting away with something wrong. Cindy has countless times taken back what she had said before and lies to cover up for Casey. Casey learned this behavior from Cindy.

Now, what responsibility to parents have to the way their children turn out? When a child grows up to be an exceptional person, their parents are always praised for raising them so well. But when a child is a criminal, can we say that the parents have NO part in the way they turned out?

Again, I believe Casey should take full blame and stay in jail where she will be miserable, but what do you guys think should be done with Cindy and George?

Sorry... Long rant...

Wow!  Well to start with, the part I bolded above is intersting and I had never really thought of it that way....but, you are right, they should be held accountable but to what degree?...I'm not sure.  What I do know is that if any of the Ant's had a role in the cover-up of Caylee's death, then for sure they should be punished to the full extent. 

The rest I'm going to think about for a bit, but I really like this post....got me thinking!!

Well thank you for replying! I was afraid no one would, but I started thinking about this last night, and I was wondering what everyone else on here thought about it. I too believe that if the A's knowingly covered up the truth, then yes, they should be taken to court and to jail. But what if they didn't intentionally cover things up (although, we have proof they did), then do they get away scott free?

AGAIN... THANKS FOR REPLYING! I appreciate it.

If they did not intentionally coverup anything or knowingly hide/destroy evidence then no I dont think legally they can be held accoutable.

However, one day I believe they will be punished....and by a much Higher Power!

[darla]

SHOULD CINDY AND GEORGE NOT BE PUNISHED FOR CASEY'S SINS?

First I want to preface this by saying that I think:
CASEY IS 100% RESPONSIBLE AND SHOULD ROT IN JAIL FOR LIFE...

But.. How much can we say George and Cindy should get away with for Casey turning out the way she did?

So... We know that a person's behavior stems from two things: GENETICS and ENVIRONMENT

GENETICS: Well we all know where she gets these from... Cindy and George (although I've heard he might not be the bio dad). Their family history does not seem promising in this category, but yet we cannot blame someone's action based solely on genetics, or else any criminal with a bad family history can use the defense that it was in their "blood" to commit the crime. So this leaves...

ENVIRONMENT: Again, this includes Cindy and George. We then add Lee and all of Casey's friends.

FRIENDS: I believe a great deal of influence comes from a person's friends' standards and how persuasive they are in getting you to do what they want. I do not think that ANY of Casey's friends would tell her that she would be better off without a child. Tony might be the exception because he did not want Caylee around, however, I do not think his actions or morals would condone Casey killing her own kid.

LEE: Lee got mad at Casey for getting pregnant. Here I think is where Casey started her resentment for Caylee. Her brother and probably best friend was angry at her. She probably felt that Caylee was a burden.

GEORGE: Ah, George, although he is the most honest of the bunch, we cannot let him slide that easily. The whole suicide attempt, whether it was a cry for help or an actual attempt, it shows that he believes when things get too tough, just take the easy way out. He didn't like the situation he was in, so he decided to take his life. Casey didn't like her situation, so she took her daughter's life. He also treated Casey like she was a princess and could do no harm. He made her think that she was always the boss, that the world revolved around her, and that she could get away with anything. He unintentionally and nonverbally condoned her behavior by not checking it while she was running wild.

CINDY: This is where Casey got most of her attitude and thinking from. Cindy probably constantly told Casey that she was a bad mother, that she didn't deserve Caylee, and that Caylee would be better off without her. If you tell someone something negative enough times, they start believing it. Casey knew she was a bad mother so she made no real connection to Caylee. This is why I don't understand why Cindy didn't just take Caylee from the beginning. Cindy also has shown that it is ok to lie or bend the truth if it means getting away with something wrong. Cindy has countless times taken back what she had said before and lies to cover up for Casey. Casey learned this behavior from Cindy.

Now, what responsibility to parents have to the way their children turn out? When a child grows up to be an exceptional person, their parents are always praised for raising them so well. But when a child is a criminal, can we say that the parents have NO part in the way they turned out?

Again, I believe Casey should take full blame and stay in jail where she will be miserable, but what do you guys think should be done with Cindy and George?

Sorry... Long rant...

Wow!  Well to start with, the part I bolded above is intersting and I had never really thought of it that way....but, you are right, they should be held accountable but to what degree?...I'm not sure.  What I do know is that if any of the Ant's had a role in the cover-up of Caylee's death, then for sure they should be punished to the full extent. 

The rest I'm going to think about for a bit, but I really like this post....got me thinking!!

Well thank you for replying! I was afraid no one would, but I started thinking about this last night, and I was wondering what everyone else on here thought about it. I too believe that if the A's knowingly covered up the truth, then yes, they should be taken to court and to jail. But what if they didn't intentionally cover things up (although, we have proof they did), then do they get away scott free?

AGAIN... THANKS FOR REPLYING! I appreciate it.

I read it to vince....and you are right...it gives you something to think about. I was Blessed with 2 kids that never got into any serious trouble...just normal teenage stuff...most of it I laughed off because I had done the same thing at one time or another. They both turned out to be remarkable adults.

[Cappuccino]

Vince, Im now exhausted but I wanted you to know I read your thoughtful post.   If you think your post was a long rant, I'm afraid my thoughts from personal/occupation experiences would be almost book worthy so I wouldnt dare comment on its length but I would love to comment on its quality of thought - I look forward to picking up the discussion tomorrow.

Good nite monkeys, this lil monkey is hitting the fluffies!  Muah!

[VinceVixen]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am going to bed also. Good night. 

[Leroy]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am going to bed also. Good night. 

Sweet dreams!

[TURBOTHINK]

SHOULD CINDY AND GEORGE NOT BE PUNISHED FOR CASEY'S SINS?

First I want to preface this by saying that I think:
CASEY IS 100% RESPONSIBLE AND SHOULD ROT IN JAIL FOR LIFE...

But.. How much can we say George and Cindy should get away with for Casey turning out the way she did?

So... We know that a person's behavior stems from two things: GENETICS and ENVIRONMENT

GENETICS: Well we all know where she gets these from... Cindy and George (although I've heard he might not be the bio dad). Their family history does not seem promising in this category, but yet we cannot blame someone's action based solely on genetics, or else any criminal with a bad family history can use the defense that it was in their "blood" to commit the crime. So this leaves...

ENVIRONMENT: Again, this includes Cindy and George. We then add Lee and all of Casey's friends.

FRIENDS: I believe a great deal of influence comes from a person's friends' standards and how persuasive they are in getting you to do what they want. I do not think that ANY of Casey's friends would tell her that she would be better off without a child. Tony might be the exception because he did not want Caylee around, however, I do not think his actions or morals would condone Casey killing her own kid.

LEE: Lee got mad at Casey for getting pregnant. Here I think is where Casey started her resentment for Caylee. Her brother and probably best friend was angry at her. She probably felt that Caylee was a burden.

GEORGE: Ah, George, although he is the most honest of the bunch, we cannot let him slide that easily. The whole suicide attempt, whether it was a cry for help or an actual attempt, it shows that he believes when things get too tough, just take the easy way out. He didn't like the situation he was in, so he decided to take his life. Casey didn't like her situation, so she took her daughter's life. He also treated Casey like she was a princess and could do no harm. He made her think that she was always the boss, that the world revolved around her, and that she could get away with anything. He unintentionally and nonverbally condoned her behavior by not checking it while she was running wild.

CINDY: This is where Casey got most of her attitude and thinking from. Cindy probably constantly told Casey that she was a bad mother, that she didn't deserve Caylee, and that Caylee would be better off without her. If you tell someone something negative enough times, they start believing it. Casey knew she was a bad mother so she made no real connection to Caylee. This is why I don't understand why Cindy didn't just take Caylee from the beginning. Cindy also has shown that it is ok to lie or bend the truth if it means getting away with something wrong. Cindy has countless times taken back what she had said before and lies to cover up for Casey. Casey learned this behavior from Cindy.

Now, what responsibility to parents have to the way their children turn out? When a child grows up to be an exceptional person, their parents are always praised for raising them so well. But when a child is a criminal, can we say that the parents have NO part in the way they turned out?

Again, I believe Casey should take full blame and stay in jail where she will be miserable, but what do you guys think should be done with Cindy and George?

Sorry... Long rant...

Very good post.  I agree with all you said and it bothers me terribly when people condone the parents behaviors covering up for KC. It is as if nothing they ever did contributed to Caylee's demise, and I feel very strongly the family pathology was a main factor in her death.

[wendiw8780]

to all monkeys, you are the best!!!! thank you for all your caring & kind comments. i love you all! huggs! HUGGS!!!!!
wendi

PS-thank you muffy for removing my post, it shouldn't ever been here.

wendi

[Leroy]

to all monkeys, you are the best!!!! thank you for all your caring & kind comments. i love you all! huggs! HUGGS!!!!!
wendi

PS-thank you muffy for removing my post, it shouldn't ever been here.

wendi

Hang in there sweetie, everything will be okay!

[Desdemona]

Sorry some Monkeys are sad and worried and sick... and glad they have Monkey friends to care and to share their troubles with.  Monkeys are wonderful.
 
Today I was very sad, too, reading about the details in the Riley Sawyers "Baby Grace" murder, but glad that the mother who helped to kill her was put away for life.  Riley was two, like Caylee was.  Her mother and step-father planned her "discipline session" which resulted in death from multiple skull fractures and other wounds.  Her mother was emotionless and/or smiling in court, too, like Casey.  Riley's little body was also kept around until the smell of decomp created problems, and then tosed away like garbage and left to the elements.  Riley deserves justice.  As she was being beaten to death, she held out her arms and cried out "Mommy, I love you!"  I'm hoping that her step-father who caused her death will also be found guilty when his trial comes up.
 
And just now, I stumbled across some news I didn't know.  Karissa Boudreau, the 12-year-old Nova Scotia girl who was reported missing by her mother, then found murdered a couple of weeks later (back in February) was killed by her mother, as I and many others suspected.  It is breaking my heart; in Canada the court presents what is called a "statement of fact" when an accused pleads guilty.  I was reading the story of how Karissa's mother decided (premeditated) to kill her and carried it out in cold blood.  She actually reported Karissa missing BEFORE killing her.  Karissa pleaded with her mother, "Mommy, Dont!" as she was being strangled to death.  Then her body was thrown into her mother's car, and dumped just off the side of the road at a convenient place to pull over.  Thrown out like trash, to be discovered 13 days later by a horrified 9-year-old boy trying to find a private place to pee...
 
This is O/T maybe, but these two cases, of a girl being killed by her mother, resonate in my heart and I can't help but compare them to Caylee...

Here is a link to the "statement of fact" in Karissa's case, but I actually recommend that any Monkeys who are sensitive or feeling sad NOT read it.  Really.  It did me in tonight and made me wish that I had not.
Warning:  Graphic description of murder.  http://www.thestar.com/article/580101

However, here is a link to an article about Karissa's murder which contains some statistical information about mothers who kill their children, and why Karissa's murder was out of the ordinary... if you read some of the details, Casey/Caylee do fit closer to the classic mommy murderer / child victim case.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Experts+shocked+Penny+Boudreau+crime/1236881/story.html

A quote:  

Boyd noted these cases tend to garner a lot of public attention because people don't understand it.

"We can't help look at it and wonder how is killing a child a solution to your problems," he said. "But when you start to look for rational behaviour in homicides you end up walking away pretty unsatisfied. Most of it doesn't make much sense."

Another:

"Domestic homicides typically involve people without a lot of social and intellectual skills and not very many resources, or social support breaking down in the face of disintegrating relationships or a significant amount of stress," Boyd said, adding mothers are highly unlikely to kill children older than four.

Sorry for the long post, don't mean to be a downer.  Desi is so sad tonight, thinking of beautiful Caylee who did not deserve to die and be discarded... who does not deserve to have her pitiful remains sitting in a box at a funeral home for five weeks while people strike and parry for personal fame or profit.

Goodnight dear Monkeys...  God bless you all and God bless our Caylee...

Justice.   

[Desdemona]

to all monkeys, you are the best!!!! thank you for all your caring & kind comments. i love you all! huggs! HUGGS!!!!!
wendi

PS-thank you muffy for removing my post, it shouldn't ever been here.

wendi

Hi, Sweetie!  I don't even know what your sadness/struggle is, but my heart is with you.  Hoping things are looking up and that you can walk in the sunshine...

Your monkey friend,
Desi

[Desdemona]

Oops, wendi, I see that Leroy already called you "sweetie" !   

*trying to think of another endearment*

Wendi, Honey, hope you are feeling brighter!
 

(Personally think "Sweetie" is better, but Leroy beat me to it...)

[Leroy]

Des - yes, it is so sad and so hard to understand.  The quote you posted (which I've copied below) is exactly how I feel about all of these cases.

You have a good night and hope to see you tomorrow!


Boyd noted these cases tend to garner a lot of public attention because people don't understand it.

"We can't help look at it and wonder how is killing a child a solution to your problems," he said. "But when you start to look for rational behaviour in homicides you end up walking away pretty unsatisfied. Most of it doesn't make much sense."

[TURBOTHINK]

Wendi

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AdultsRecoveringFrom-NarcissiticParents/

Divorcing a Parent: Free Yourself from the Past and Live the Life You've Always Wanted by Beverly Engel (1991): No one should have to endure an abusive, unhealthy relationship that threatens his or her well-being -- even if that relationship is with a parent.
http://www.amazon.com/Divorcing-Parent-Yourself-Always-Wanted/dp/044990590X/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt/102-8702660-7020921?ie=UTF8

 Motherless is a site for sharing real-life stories of people who are apart from their mothers (and fathers in many cases) for all sorts of reasons, not least of which are those who had to make the difficult choice to walk away. Reviewing these stories will show you that you are not alone. You will gain tremendous insight into the ways other people deal with situations similar to your own

http://themotherless.com/

[PookyBear]

Good morning Monkeys -- I hope all slept well and you have a great day.  Hey Scarlett -- I see you logged in and wanted to say hello.   

[Scarrlett]

Hi Pooky..So good to see you. It's quite here so it only took about an hour to read up. How is the little one??

I think I always stay logged in..I think? I just pit the last page on my desk top when I am done and just click that when I get back.

Saw Lucinda yesterday and she is still in the heat. And I am freezing my buns!!

[OriginalKat]

Have to get hubby up for work but wanted to post something quickly before I do that.

Why do the grandparents have to attend the memorial if it is so hard on George? The memorial really won't give them as much closure as the funeral IMO. I am talking from personal experience. I think it is ridiculous people have to be searched and that is another reason the A's should not attend. This is just for performance value. Again it is about them and not Caylee. Wow..that sounds like Casey last interview. This memorial should be for Caylee and the people who have searched, prayed and want justice to come to the one person who ended her life. Those people attend and you don't need security because they are loving people who care.
 
I think the story on NG about the escape of George from the hospital to not be discovered is bull. Sounds like something they came up with when our forum was questioning where are the pictures? Where is video?
They are supposedly constantly hounded by media..where is it? Another game of stories.

Also since it has now opened up a new world to me to have wireless internet I am watching alot of stuff. Wow..it has really but a new life in this case for me. I haven't posted much lately because I am watching videos and not only the words but the body language is amazing. The new Fox show "Lie to Me' has gotten me interested in reading about  the body, expressions, microexpressions, etc and how your brain makes those reactions speak for you.

Off to wakeup hubby...he is like getting a kid out of bed on a cold morning to go to school. I have already tried twice with the "let me sleep just a little longer".