Natalee Case Discussion #800 2/11 - 2/18/09

[Keepthefaith]

KTF, I don't think the guy in the red shirt looks like Bucher.  jmo

I WANT TO KNOW WHO HE IS.AND I WANT TO KNOW NOW!

I think the man in the red shirt is John Silvetti......always have thought so.

That must be why Kyle is so adamant about it not being Silvetti?Was that the meeting the voice of reason(Tamikosmom) could be refering to.Is this where the negotiations occured in regards to the GRAND-FINALE TO THE ARUBAN COVER UP!

Keepthefaith

I agree.

I believe after the Arubans observed the ROV images from the December 29, 2008 dive ... immediate damage control was where it was at.  Think about it ... the Dateline dive was scheduled for the next day.  I suspect that just prior to the second dive on December 30, 2009 ... an emergency meeting was scheduled by the Aruban with John Silvetti.  I speculate that at this meeting ... justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closer for her family too a back seat and ... for a price ... for an incentive ... John Silvetti became a participant in "the finale to the great Aruban coverup".  Considering Tim Trahan dove with the Aruban dive team on December 30, 2008 ... I contend that this American also became a player in the betrayal.

Janet

_____

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:  This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.

TIM TRAHAN

The search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

On Dec. 30, off the coast of Aruba, divers from the Aruban police force and the research vessel Persistence were about to make a crucial dive on a promising target in the search for Natalee Holloway.

The researchers had discovered a fish trap about 90 feet below the surface in almost the exact spot search expert Tim Miller had theorized Natalee’s body might be.

Team leader Tim Trahan suited up to join the Aruban police divers. As Tim Miller wished him well, the divers hit the water and the ROV was sent down to capture what would happen for everyone watching on board.

(On the boat)

Brandon: We have visual on divers and target.

Slowly the divers worked their way down to the trap.

They had been instructed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

The atmosphere in the survey room was tense, and nerves were raw as Miller, the Aruban authorities and the crew of the Persistence waited for word of what exactly was in the trap.

The divers approached the target and signaled above. And then...

(On the boat)

No it's thumbs down.

Negative, not it.

Crushing disppointment.

(On the boat)

Tim Miller: Divers coming up right now. I don't know it looked as promising today as it did last night or before.

Miller: Nothing?

Trahan: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

Remember.From what i see when i watch Tim Miller.He says BullSh_t to there being no remains.Hence.He's a liability!!!

[Tamikosmom]

I was disappointed in the "Thumbs down" but ... on December 30, 2007 ... I never doubted that Natalee Holloways remains were not in the cage/trap.  After all ... Tim Trahan was an American diver ... he was a member of the Persistence team ... he was not Aruban.  Nevertheless ... the answer to a question was left dangling.  "What was in the trap/cage".  Obviously ... there was "Something" in the trap/cage ... not "Northing" as Tim Trahan stated.

However ... in a short period of time ... I began experiencing nagging suspicions that all was not right in the land of OZ.

1.  The sudden departure of the Persistence while targets were still to be checked and ... donations were still being solicited.

2.  The CAPS/John Silvetti/Jossy Mansur connection in regards to the pond witness.

4.  Kyle Kingsman's posts on the SM forum regarding the Persistence crew not being involved in the recovery process on January 7, 2008 the chain of command.

3.  Kyle Kingman's posts on the SM forum that were contradictory in regards to the search of the pond.

I questioned my doubts on the SM forum but ... was not upheld.

Then in Nov/Dec when Kermit first revealed Kyle Kingman's posts ... posts that told the story in regards to the John Silvetti deception ... everything made sense ... I felt validated.

Janet



2. 

[Tamikosmom]

I was disappointed in the "Thumbs down" but ... on December 30, 2007 ... I never doubted that Natalee Holloways remains were not in the cage/trap.  After all ... Tim Trahan was an American diver ... he was a member of the Persistence team ... he was not Aruban.  Nevertheless ... the answer to a question was left dangling.  "What was in the trap/cage".  Obviously ... there was "Something" in the trap/cage ... not "Northing" as Tim Trahan stated.

However ... in a short period of time ... I began experiencing nagging suspicions that all was not right in the land of OZ.

1.  The sudden departure of the Persistence while targets were still to be checked and ... donations were still being solicited.

2.  The CAPS/John Silvetti/Jossy Mansur connection in regards to the pond witness.

4.  Kyle Kingsman's posts on the SM forum regarding the Persistence crew not being involved in the recovery process on January 7, 2008 the chain of command.

3.  Kyle Kingman's posts on the SM forum that were contradictory in regards to the search of the pond.

I questioned my doubts on the SM forum but ... was not upheld.

Then in Nov/Dec when Kermit first revealed Kyle Kingman's posts ... posts that told the story in regards to the John Silvetti deception ... everything made sense ... I felt validated.

Janet

4.  The leaked ROV images by Robin Holloway.

[wreck]

I was disappointed in the "Thumbs down" but ... on December 30, 2007 ... I never doubted that Natalee Holloways remains were not in the cage/trap.  After all ... Tim Trahan was an American diver ... he was a member of the Persistence team ... he was not Aruban.  Nevertheless ... the answer to a question was left dangling.  "What was in the trap/cage".  Obviously ... there was "Something" in the trap/cage ... not "Northing" as Tim Trahan stated.

However ... in a short period of time ... I began experiencing nagging suspicions that all was not right in the land of OZ.

1.  The sudden departure of the Persistence while targets were still to be checked and ... donations were still being solicited.

2.  The CAPS/John Silvetti/Jossy Mansur connection in regards to the pond witness.

4.  Kyle Kingsman's posts on the SM forum regarding the Persistence crew not being involved in the recovery process on January 7, 2008 the chain of command.

3.  Kyle Kingman's posts on the SM forum that were contradictory in regards to the search of the pond.

I questioned my doubts on the SM forum but ... was not upheld.

Then in Nov/Dec when Kermit first revealed Kyle Kingman's posts ... posts that told the story in regards to the John Silvetti deception ... everything made sense ... I felt validated.

Janet

4.  The leaked ROV images by Robin Holloway.

We all thought Robin revealed the ROV pictures haphazardly ---- maybe it wasn't so "haphazard". Maybe we didn't give them enough credit. Maybe they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. (if so, I apologize for doubting)

[Keepthefaith]

I was disappointed in the "Thumbs down" but ... on December 30, 2007 ... I never doubted that Natalee Holloways remains were not in the cage/trap.  After all ... Tim Trahan was an American diver ... he was a member of the Persistence team ... he was not Aruban.  Nevertheless ... the answer to a question was left dangling.  "What was in the trap/cage".  Obviously ... there was "Something" in the trap/cage ... not "Northing" as Tim Trahan stated.

However ... in a short period of time ... I began experiencing nagging suspicions that all was not right in the land of OZ.

1.  The sudden departure of the Persistence while targets were still to be checked and ... donations were still being solicited.

2.  The CAPS/John Silvetti/Jossy Mansur connection in regards to the pond witness.

4.  Kyle Kingsman's posts on the SM forum regarding the Persistence crew not being involved in the recovery process on January 7, 2008 the chain of command.

3.  Kyle Kingman's posts on the SM forum that were contradictory in regards to the search of the pond.

I questioned my doubts on the SM forum but ... was not upheld.

Then in Nov/Dec when Kermit first revealed Kyle Kingman's posts ... posts that told the story in regards to the John Silvetti deception ... everything made sense ... I felt validated.

Janet

4.  The leaked ROV images by Robin Holloway.

We all thought Robin revealed the ROV pictures haphazardly ---- maybe it wasn't so "haphazard". Maybe we didn't give them enough credit. Maybe they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. (if so, I apologize for doubting)

Agreed Wreck.One would think that Robin thought this out very well with the advice of others.JMOO.At this point,i think it's just a matter of sitting back and waiting for Silvetti and Co. to mess up if they already haven't.Greed is very powerful!!!

[texasmom]

2/14/2009 Awe Mainta

http://awemainta.com/home/



more of 80 trahador of the aruban resort will lose work

friday, 13 february 2009 21:38 yesterday nightfall owing to surgi one situation much tenso at the aruban resort hour cu owing to dicidi of calling one meeting obligatio for 3’or of nightfall. for of instant cu the trahadornan here owing to achieve know of dje, at once the temornan owing to cuminsa, mirando cu for of enough time end is premirando one situation less favorabel at the resort here. during the meeting here the trahadornan of the part of timeshare owing to wordo informa cu office of sales & marketing will wordo close, the not will is funcional more. esey kiermen cu more of 80 trahador will wordo less. the trahadornan owing to wordo tell cu they have to bay work if, but posiblemente is under tree, because not have more office. till at the momentonan here the empleadonan will follow cobra, they have to punch in y if they wanted after of 1 hour can punch out y bay they cas,y they will wordo pay the day completo. this can will soon while cu is take the decision definite of kico will wordo haci. informacionnan cu awemainta owing to achieve is cu bob watson, vice chairman of departamento of sales & marketing of the resort owing to clean up yesterday morning all the coin for of cuenta y recepcion cu is destina for pay taxistanan hour they take away tourist. after of this past owing to lever plane y bay for of aruba. is conoci also cu the accionistanan owing to quarrel cu another y this owing to bring one serie of problemanan cune, y today can see one of his consecuencianan, one cantidad big of father y mamanan they work is at danger y not know kico they can wait for in future cercano. have to menciona cu have rumornan is core cu another week the resort self will close his portanan debi at the bad maneho of the are of paul more. as awemainta owing to arrive of publica at various ocasion end, the doñonan new of the resort owing to happen the various accionistanan one fast ball hour owing to dicidi cu not will paganan thing they have derecho on dje. fuera of esey several of we trahadornan local they life owing to wordo haci impossible, while cu others owing to wordo less y today can see cu more of 80 trahador will lose they work. several yamadanan owing to enter at we redaccion comentando on the caso here y criticando deparamento of job because; also minister ramon lee for cu the situation here. according some of we lectornan, director of departamento of labora is at height for of enough time end on the situation at the aruban resort, but not owing to haci nothing till at the momentonan here. is kico is sperando for send cientos of trahadornan cas for complace inversionistanan extranhero cu is abusando of we hendenan? or posiblemente does not haci nothing contra the are here mirando cu one of they will is the inversionista for her jackpotnan cu lotto for sport will place at aeropuerto? minister ramon lee have much of splica on all the asunto here y finalmente accomplish cu his funcion of minister of job. is sufficient abuse end the trahadornan here have to owing to wanta for of the extranheronan here for now departamento of job stay keto y not haci nothing! come across

[Keepthefaith]

With the World's economy it may get worse for Aruba.Add the negative publicity from the Natalee Holloway murder and there you have it.Welcome to Danger Island!

[texasmom]

With the World's economy it may get worse for Aruba.Add the negative publicity from the Natalee Holloway murder and there you have it.Welcome to Danger Island!

Ain't that the truth!   

[texasmom]

2/14/2009 Awe Mainta

http://awemainta.com/home/



Papiamentu translation:

Black Friday
not comment! yesterday nightfall owing to surgi one situation much tenso at the aruban resort hour cu owing to dicidi of calling one meeting obligatio for 3’or of nightfall. during the meeting here the trahadornan of the part of timeshare owing to wordo informa cu office of sales & marketing will wordo close. esey kiermen cu more of 80 trahador will wordo less. till at the momentonan here the empleadonan will follow cobra, they have to punch in y if they wanted after of 1 hour can punch out y bay they cas.

[texasmom]

2/14/2009 Awe Mainta Page 3

http://awemainta.com/home/



Papiamentu translation:

alto command owing to anuncia some cambio structural dolfi richardson, comisario of asuntonan general y trudy hassell, comisario hudicial

in one circulario cu alto comisario, peter de witte owing to send for personal of cuerpo policial the week here, date day 10 of feburary ultimo, owing to confirma thing cu we of awemainta owing to come is anuncia. esta cu will have cambionan structural, where comisario dolfi richardson, that will follow fungi because; alto comisario interino, for of day 10 ultimo owing to change of responsabilidad, esta the is let the part hudicial y will is encarga now cu asunto general. of another near comisario trudy hassell, now will become comisario of asuntonan hudicial. one cambio, cu we owing to see is come at caminda, because have diferencianan bao of command policial y for can work more tranquil, the cambionan here was necesario. although have to tell if, cu esnan cu owing to come is work for several year end cu comisario dolfi richardson, the.o. cuerpo of recherche, team of aresto y others do not mucho contento the cambio here. more still, after of owing to crea one relacion y uno good among comisario richardson y the team investigativo, now have to go back establece one relacion new. but have one disgust big, till cu have some of the recherchenan owing to let know, if not can work cu comisario hassell, they will ask traslado or will busca another trabao abroad of police. work because; police, do not agreeable more. all the time awemainta owing to achieve informacion also, cu sindicato of police do not nothing contento niether y another week, will bay happen keep for keep of police, for hear the disgustonan of cada districto. y is they intencion for after convoca one meeting general big, where not have to exclui cu will can bay in accion. have very cos for regulation, the.o. promocion, the asunto of curso of llo, where command policial owing to go back change of opinion, where several police young owing to being let afo, y give pit n’esnan cu dentro of some will descend cu pensioen. spa is cuestiona maneho of alto comisario peter de witte seriamente. the funcionario here have to can stop on his pianan, y have to stop of wordo manipula. ultimo time, past owing to demostra of not can maneha cuerpo policial, cu is one of the motibonan for cual minister of husticia, rudy croes owing to busk’e y owing to cambi’e eliminando one alto comisario crioyo in person of mr. ronny bernadina. cu the hechonan here, y if see ultimamente raport of vno, much person is achieve cu all gobierno of nel oduber practicamente is bao of one lupa, for not tell bao of curatela.

[texasmom]

Klaas or another mod, please add this link to my last post!  TIA

http://awemainta.com/home/

 

{Done} 

[Tamikosmom]

My DIL emailed the document regarding the Kalpoes ... the document she assisted me in putting together ... to Phil McGraw's attorney a few days ago ... 23 attachments.

 

I learned something new.

I had pictured the email to be regarded as junk and ... that would be it.   Well ... an excited DIL just phoned me from her parents' home on the other side of the border and ... informed me that she received a very nice response.  The family were all just headed out the door for the evening but ... she promised to forward it to me tomorrow.

 

Hey ... it was probably just a courtesy response but ... it made my day.

BTW Kermit, Magnolia and texasmom ... your contributions were included as Part 22 and Part 23.

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
8:00 PM

[texasmom]

This statement is at the conclusion of an article in tomorrow's Awe Mainta regarding the upcoming trial next week in Bonaire of the accused murderer of Marlies van der Kowe.  I posted the whole article over in Marlies thread if anyone would like to read it.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3445.700

http://awemainta.com/home/

2/14/2009 Awe Mainta Page 6

snip

while cu corte y om is preparando they self pe caso here already end parents of marlies owing to trip for antilles for of where they will bay sigi the caso here of aserca. the interest at the netherlands is big, already cu all the comunidad dutch owing to live cu the parents y family. together cu the parents have equiponan of television dutch cu will bay transmiti the caso here all day for the netherlands. is for first trip cu rayan pieters will bay come across cara cara cu mayornann y one brother man of esun cu past owing to place end at his life of one form cruel. at bonaire everybody have to is contento cu the family here not owing to actua as mother of natallee holloway cu owing to place merca boycotea aruba.

JMO, I don't think it's right for the two cases/family reactions to be compared here.  Marlies family KNOWS where she is, they have been able to say goodbye to her...they have laid her to rest in a proper burial; they will be in court on Tuesday to see those accused in her murder go to trial. 

Natalee Holloway's family has not had the same result even though every indication is that Natalee's fate was known by authorities on the island of Aruba within days of her disappearance.  It has been over three and a half years, and her family has never been able to bring her home.  No one is being held accountable for the crimes against Natalee or the disappearance of her body.  The cover up of all possible resolution in this case is sickening! 


To repeat the words of a very wise monkey....

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT, IT DOES!!!!!
again, JMO   

[texasmom]

Klaas or another mod, please add this link to my last post!  TIA

http://awemainta.com/home/

 

{Done} 

Thanks San!   

[always 1]

O/T come to musings and see Kermits baby!!!! 

[texasmom]

My DIL emailed the document regarding the Kalpoes ... the document she assisted me in putting together ... to Phil McGraw's attorney a few days ago ... 23 attachments.

 

I learned something new.

I had pictured the email to be regarded as junk and ... that would be it.   Well ... an excited DIL just phoned me from her parents' home on the other side of the border and ... informed me that she received a very nice response.  The family were all just headed out the door for the evening but ... she promised to forward it to me tomorrow.

 

Hey ... it was probably just a courtesy response but ... it made my day.

BTW Kermit, Magnolia and texasmom ... your contributions were included as Part 22 and Part 23.

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
8:00 PM

Great news Janet!   

You and your DIL deserved a response for your hard work!  Can't wait to hear what they said!

Goodnight Janet!   

[Keepthefaith]

You tell Dr.Phil if he get's the Kalpoe's on the stand he'll have an audience full of Monkey's for life!Thank you to Janet and her DIL,as well as all the Monkey's who continue to watch Aruba and the Evil that many on that Island bring out!JMOO

KEEPTHEFAITH

[Keepthefaith]

It is all so plain as the nose on your face now!
Tim Trahan's signal was prearranged before the dive.
I wonder what Silvetti and Trahan received in
exchange for the deception?  Maybe the right to
continue the search?  Was Kyle left out of the barter?

Very simple.Sick people to be able to do somehting like that.You think?

[wreck]

It is all so plain as the nose on your face now!
Tim Trahan's signal was prearranged before the dive.
I wonder what Silvetti and Trahan received in
exchange for the deception?  Maybe the right to
continue the search?  Was Kyle left out of the barter?

Very simple.Sick people to be able to do somehting like that.You think?

Sick and GREEDY.

[Tamikosmom]

It is all so plain as the nose on your face now!
Tim Trahan's signal was prearranged before the dive.
I wonder what Silvetti and Trahan received in
exchange for the deception?  Maybe the right to
continue the search?  Was Kyle left out of the barter?

Kyle Kingman was frustrated.  He did not comprehend what was going on.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:  I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me