Natalee Case Discussion #800 2/11 - 2/18/09

[nonesuche]

and I am Shango 

[texasmom]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

I am a betting person -- I agree!

We got a bunch of Stackaholics here tonight!I think we can shut this thread down tonight..........

Hello, my name is "wreck"......................................... and I'm a stackaholic. 

 

[hotping]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

 

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

I am a betting person -- I agree!

We got a bunch of Stackaholics here tonight!I think we can shut this thread down tonight..........

Hello, my name is "wreck"......................................... and I'm a stackaholic. 

Good One Wreck! LMAO! 

[billb's daughter]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

 

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

I think Paulus was doing contracts for the Aruban gov't when Posner took over the Casino.

If so...dots....dots....dots...connecting...connecting....connecting.....
Lots of money has been required to do all this coverup......and I'd bet it is not coming out of anyone legitimate earnings...

[texasmom]

and I am Shango 

 

[Tamikosmom]

Magnolia's computer trouble is a reminder to all of us to back-up your wanted pics, etc. periodically! Preferably to an outside medium such as a disc or jump drive!

We would all be lost if Janet's crashed without backup.  Perish the thought!

We can always ask Dr. Phil to return her e-mails!!! 

What's Janet gonna do when they call her to the stand with Deepak,as well as Satish sitting there.Chain-of-command.Prosecutor will have to call her!Just sayin Janet....

Actually ... I would love ten minutes alone with Deepak and Satish.  Joran was raised to believe that the legal and moral boundaries of expectation in a civilized society did not apply to him.  He has no conscience.  However ... I tend to believe that the Kalpoes were raised with some values.  In other words ... there is a foundation of what is right and wrong that they can return to.

I speculate that the truth would be flowing in no time.  Just as eldest son about his Mom's interrogation techniques that he was forced to endure as a teenager.  I do believe this guy is still still having nightmares in regard to those sessions at 37 years of age.

 

Love ya all.

Good Night and ... this time it is for real.

Janet

[wreck]

Are there meetings or 10 step programs available? Does insurance cover this? 

[hotping]

and I am Shango 

 

[nonesuche]

and I am Shango 

 

[hotping]

Magnolia's computer trouble is a reminder to all of us to back-up your wanted pics, etc. periodically! Preferably to an outside medium such as a disc or jump drive!

We would all be lost if Janet's crashed without backup.  Perish the thought!

We can always ask Dr. Phil to return her e-mails!!! 

What's Janet gonna do when they call her to the stand with Deepak,as well as Satish sitting there.Chain-of-command.Prosecutor will have to call her!Just sayin Janet....

Actually ... I would love ten minutes alone with Deepak and Satish.  Joran was raised to believe that the legal and moral boundaries of expectation in a civilized society did not apply to him.  He has no conscience.  However ... I tend to believe that the Kalpoes were raised with some values.  In other words ... there is a foundation of what is right and wrong that they can return to.

I speculate that the truth would be flowing in no time.  Just as eldest son about his Mom's interrogation techniques that he was forced to endure as a teenager.  I do believe this guy is still still having nightmares in regard to those sessions at 37 years of age.

 

Love ya all.

Good Night and ... this time it is for real.

Janet

Oh Janet I wish You Could have 10 mins alone with them too...Then We would know the truth......Good Night! Have Fun tomorrow as TOC! 

[billb's daughter]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

 

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

For goodness sakes.Who got Joran hooked on online poker?

And who is funding his habit?
Remember, this all started with in the casino....posner's casino...

[texasmom]

Magnolia's computer trouble is a reminder to all of us to back-up your wanted pics, etc. periodically! Preferably to an outside medium such as a disc or jump drive!

We would all be lost if Janet's crashed without backup.  Perish the thought!

We can always ask Dr. Phil to return her e-mails!!! 

What's Janet gonna do when they call her to the stand with Deepak,as well as Satish sitting there.Chain-of-command.Prosecutor will have to call her!Just sayin Janet....

Actually ... I would love ten minutes alone with Deepak and Satish.  Joran was raised to believe that the legal and moral boundaries of expectation in a civilized society did not apply to him.  He has no conscience.  However ... I tend to believe that the Kalpoes were raised with some values.  In other words ... there is a foundation of what is right and wrong that they can return to.

I speculate that the truth would be flowing in no time.  Just as eldest son about his Mom's interrogation techniques that he was forced to endure as a teenager.  I do believe this guy is still still having nightmares in regard to those sessions at 37 years of age.

 

Love ya all.

Good Night and ... this time it is for real.

Janet

I don't know Janet, I don't think there is any hope for Joran or Deepak; I always thought Satish might crack though.  He just didn't seem to be as hardened in evil as the others.  JMO

[Keepthefaith]

Magnolia's computer trouble is a reminder to all of us to back-up your wanted pics, etc. periodically! Preferably to an outside medium such as a disc or jump drive!

We would all be lost if Janet's crashed without backup.  Perish the thought!

We can always ask Dr. Phil to return her e-mails!!! 

What's Janet gonna do when they call her to the stand with Deepak,as well as Satish sitting there.Chain-of-command.Prosecutor will have to call her!Just sayin Janet....

Actually ... I would love ten minutes alone with Deepak and Satish.  Joran was raised to believe that the legal and moral boundaries of expectation in a civilized society did not apply to him.  He has no conscience.  However ... I tend to believe that the Kalpoes were raised with some values.  In other words ... there is a foundation of what is right and wrong that they can return to.

I speculate that the truth would be flowing in no time.  Just as eldest son about his Mom's interrogation techniques that he was forced to endure as a teenager.  I do believe this guy is still still having nightmares in regard to those sessions at 37 years of age.

 

Love ya all.

Good Night and ... this time it is for real.

Janet

Goodnight Janet.I gotta stack it up till the end of the night!Gotta shut this thread down..

[billb's daughter]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

 

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

I am a betting person -- I agree!

We got a bunch of Stackaholics here tonight!I think we can shut this thread down tonight..........

Hello, my name is "wreck"......................................... and I'm a stackaholic. 

Duh....with a name like "wreck"....

[2NJSons_Mom]

KTF,

20 posts per page.  fyi

[wreck]

texasmom:

I don't know Janet, I don't think there is any hope for Joran or Deepak; I always thought Satish might crack though.  He just didn't seem to be as hardened in evil as the others.  JMO

I used to think that too. I guess 4 long hard years of 12th grade really hardened him!!




(I'm a stack buster!!!) 

[Magnolia]

Goodnight, Janet.

Take those boys bowling tomorrow....teach them to keep score.

[billb's daughter]

and I am Shango 

Logic dictates....link please...

[Magnolia]

I maintain that Joran had consistently represented himself to the MB group as a visitor to Aruba, also staying at the Holiday Inn.  If she went willingly, she thought she was going to her hotel.  If her friends let her go, they also thought she was going back to their hotel.

JMO and only MO.

THE REVELATION - JORAN IS NOT A TOURIST

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39:  Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.

To be clear, I also maintain that Paulus is the man on the casino video sitting next to and attempting conversation with Natalee - with her friends and Joran also at the table. 

This means I absolutely believe that Paulus both knew of Joran's deception in claiming to be a tourist staying there at the hotel, and was complicit in it.

I maintain that is how premeditation is determined.

 

I've always believed urine and the pimps were procuring young tourists for elders and they played that game 20 times before and nothing bad happened (to the pimps). I'd bet it wasn't the first time urine told a young tourist and her group that he was a student visiting aruba and that he stayed at the same hotel they were staying at. Just think of how many aruba hotel, casino, pimps had to have been involved to "cover urine's lies" and this was a scam played over and over, finely tuned by the playmakers. The photo of paulass in the casino sitting near Natalee says volumes of guilty (goes to premeditation) to me.  Remember rumors of michael posner being livid when that video was released? Guido leaves shortly after if I recall correctly. And d kalpoe saying in the polis car.."your own father".
I'm a believer of Minnesota's Dads contention...paulass is your perp!
If it was only urine...as a minor, he would have been out long before now and aruba could go on their merry way..no worries if urine was prosecuted, tourism would hardly of felt a bump.
I believe there was direct links to paulass that required Natalee's body be disappeared..or paulass would have been implicated along with (fill in the blank..judges/polis/govt official).
paulass pulled out his "get out of jail card - for urine" because of his position in money laundering/drugs/human trafficking/govt contracts/etc.jmoo......
And I noticed yesterday that there are wantabee "stackaholics" lurching in the background....

You all know how long it took me to type this? one finger at a time....
bump....

That's very compelling BillB.Who had the power to make those tapes dissappear??Would that be lil' ol' Michael Posner?Be interesting to know if Paulus set up the paperwork for Posner and the Hotel/Casino end of things...

Without researching, I don't know if paulass was in contracts when posner bought the hotel/casino.....
but he was there when posner started his online gambling....If I were a betting person...I'd go with paulass being involved

I am a betting person -- I agree!

We got a bunch of Stackaholics here tonight!I think we can shut this thread down tonight..........

Hello, my name is "wreck"......................................... and I'm a stackaholic. 

Duh....with a name like "wreck"....

With a name like Bubba, you are one to talk.

[2NJSons_Mom]

texasmom:

I don't know Janet, I don't think there is any hope for Joran or Deepak; I always thought Satish might crack though.  He just didn't seem to be as hardened in evil as the others.  JMO

I used to think that too. I guess 4 long hard years of 12th grade really hardened him!!




(I'm a stack buster!!!) 

Funny, when I read your post my mind just got 4 long yards.....