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Author Topic: ECONOMICS 101 & PROPHECY FULFILLED  (Read 2810 times)
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crazybabyborg
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« on: February 11, 2009, 02:06:25 AM »

Milton Friedman (July 31, 1912 – November 16, 2006) was a United States economist, statistician and public intellectual, and a recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences. He is best known among scholars for his theoretical and empirical research, especially consumption analysis, monetary history and theory, and for his demonstration of the complexity of stabilization policy.[1] A global public followed his restatement of a political philosophy that insisted on minimizing the role of government in favor of the private sector. As a leader of the Chicago School of economics, based at the University of Chicago, he had a widespread influence in shaping the research agenda of the entire profession. Friedman's many monographs, books, scholarly articles, papers, magazine columns, television programs, videos and lectures cover a broad range of topics in microeconomics, macroeconomics, economic history, and public policy issues. The Economist hailed him as "the most influential economist of the second half of the 20th century…possibly of all of it".[2][/b]


This is video of an old program featuring Milton Friedman. If you have difficulty understanding what's going on with our economy, or making up your mind which direction should be our response, I think you'll find this interesting. It's not sexy, just incredibly and accurately prophetic to where we find ourselves. The principles put forth are still germane at this moment. I'm not sure how much longer they will be.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JfdRpyfEmBE&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/JfdRpyfEmBE&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 02:48:11 AM »

If nothing else is heard from the video, I would repeat this:

We must stop judging the merits of legislation by the intentions, and start judging it by the results...............

That alone gives us the roadmap of history to measure our course of action, which is far more tangible than just throwing more and more in and hoping that the price we are drowning our children in, will somehow throw our country a life jacket.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 07:30:05 AM »

Bigger government hasn't done a better job, the economy just gets worse.

Thank you CBB, Milton Friedman makes good sense.

The bulk of the human race is not living in freedom.  Is there such a thing as free trade?


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jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 03:14:01 PM »

Basically, we are screwed.
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Kermit
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 08:50:49 PM »

People forget, we've been through this before during Clinton administration.
We came out on top.

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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 07:53:01 AM »

People forget, we've been through this before during Clinton administration.
We came out on top.

I don't see the U.S. coming out on top part.  Maybe big international businesses and a few super wealthy individuals that are outside the reach of the U.S. taxman.  What I see is greater global control.  Big empire don't seem to survive long term, and it's the little people that get hosed in the end.  Egypt, China, Rome, and many other nations have created empires and sucked the life out of the countries they controlled - bigger and bigger tributes by the slave/working class to the ruling classes are unsustainable.

Today, the ruling classes are large corporations that want to suck the life out of nations with wealth and "exploit/pay low wages" to those with little wealth. 

Quote
As an example, instead of rewarding smaller banks that serve communities, the government looks like it's taking partial ownership of Citigroup.  Why?  To bail out the wealthy?  The international owners of Citigroup?
 

Quote
For example, a Mexican law bars any institution that is more than 10%-owned by a foreign government from running a bank in that country.

Quote
Manuel Medina Mora, Banamex's chief executive and the head of Citigroup's Latin American operations, and Roberto Hernandez, a Citigroup board member who was a co-owner of Banamex before it was acquired by Citigroup, also have lobbied Mexican government officials to press for Banamex to return to local hands, these people said.

Build those financial firewalls!  Save yourselves. 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/26/citi-confronts-global-fallout-nears-deal-stake/

I think nations need to build firewalls and maintain their independence.  Consumerism and debt haven't been working for at least a generation.  More wealth leaves this nation, jobs leave this nation, and there are few good jobs left.  I expect the good jobs will leave soon too, never to return.  However, the new administration seems determined to jump start everyones credit cards, and consumer debt.  The American people have signaled a rejection of buying and credit patterns of the past.  The Obama administration doesn't seem to be listening.  Eventually, we will run out of 'rich' people to tax and we'll start selling the old growth forrests.  Out cheap real estate will be snapped up by foreign interests.

Buying will not bring back anyone's job.  It doesn't stimulate the American economy.  There is no hope for Main Street.  Greed comes from the heart of men, there is always hope if you believe in GOD.

my opinions
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It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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nonesuche
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 09:14:30 AM »

Unemployment hit 5million this week, GM is announcing a fourth quarter loss of nearly 10 Billion.

50% of our voters in this country do not pay any federal taxes, now Obama is raising the tax rate on those earning 250K or more, but those tax raises will begin to impact an increasing number.......as Obama tries to finance all of the programs he's pushing for the democratic agenda. Next it will be those earning 150K, then 100K, then 75K. It is only a matter of time.

Those earning at the highest levels in our country are sure to push their funds offshore, along with our technology and data, and as many jobs as they possibly can. I do not see Obama providing an ounce of focus to stop that, in fact for the duration of his campaign and presidency, I have yet to hear him even voice an opinion on the offshoring of jobs - not once.

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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 10:34:13 AM »

I'm so discouraged, and appreciate the hope Kermit holds out. I'm trying so hard, but everything I see happening goes against any common sense I have. We've just begun. The latest Trillion we've laid on America's ship is only another installment of what is promised to be coming, and the ship's sailing low enough to take on water, now.

I was doing a little reading last night, and ran across an article that I'll post a snippet from with the link to the whole thing. Coulter's style really hacks off those with an opposing view, but it's worth a read with very valid points about the address to Congress, educaion, and the economy that are backed up by facts. The opening paragraphs made me laugh, so I thought I'd share...............


snipped:

THE CAL RIPKEN PRESIDENT
by Ann Coulter
February 25, 2009

As Obama prepared to deliver his address to Congress on Tuesday, the Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner, Fox News' Bret Baier and Charles Krauthammer all gushed that history was being made as the first African-American president appeared before Congress.

Even Gov. Bobby Jindal, whom I suppose I should note was the first Indian-American to give the Republican response to a president's speech, began with an encomium to the first black president. (Wasn't Bobby great in "Slumdog Millionaire"?)

Are we going to have to hear about this for the next four years? Obama is becoming the Cal Ripken Jr. of presidents, making history every time he suits up for a game. Recently, Obama also became the first African-American president to order a ham sandwich late at night from the White House kitchen! That's going to get old pretty quick.

But as long as the nation is obsessed with historic milestones, is no one going to remark on what a great country it is where a mentally +++++++ woman can become speaker of the house?

Full Article:
http://www.anncoulter.org/
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Kermit
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 10:00:45 PM »

What I see is greater global control.  Big empire don't seem to survive long term, and it's the little people that get hosed in the end.  Egypt, China, Rome, and many other nations have created empires and sucked the life out of the countries they controlled - bigger and bigger tributes by the slave/working class to the ruling classes are unsustainable.

Yes I have to agree with you. I see this becoming more and more of a situation where we will see
a one world order with the European Union as the leader.



January 06, 2009
Kissinger: Obama primed to create 'New World Order'
The president-elect is coming into office at a moment when there is upheaval in many parts of the world simultaneously," Kissinger responded. "You have India, Pakistan; you have the jihadist movement. So he can't really say there is one problem, that it's the most important one. But he can give new impetus to American foreign policy partly because the reception of him is so extraordinary around the world. His task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period when, really, a new world order can be created. It's a great opportunity, it isn't just a crisis."
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sterlingtimes/vpost?id=3224197






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Kermit
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2009, 10:06:07 PM »

I'm so discouraged, and appreciate the hope Kermit holds out. I'm trying so hard, but everything I see happening goes against any common sense I have. We've just begun. The latest Trillion we've laid on America's ship is only another installment of what is promised to be coming, and the ship's sailing low enough to take on water, now.

1980's - There was a lot of people out of work, Regan took office and started giving tax cuts. And the economy turned around. I remember a lot of white collar workers out of jobs and homeless. I think it was during this time a lot of Engineers could not find work, because of the influx of Engineers in the market.
We saw the same thing happen to computer guys in the 90s.

1990s there was the Savings & Loan crisis and I remember women with their children standing on corners or at the malls holding signs will work for food. A lot of people lost jobs, men with MBAs were laid off and could not find work.

Oct. 1997 - Black Monday - stocks fell 508 points

Clinton administration takes over and
The Federal government actually began to make a profit of $28 billion from selling assets.

And Nww we see Clintonites onboard with Obama. I'm pretty sure they have the previous experience to move the country in the right direction and pull us out of this economic crisis.

However, with the world economic crisis we might look at other things taking place that could have an impact:
European Union will have control over all nations.




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Kermit
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2009, 10:10:09 PM »

Unemployment hit 5million this week, GM is announcing a fourth quarter loss of nearly 10 Billion.

50% of our voters in this country do not pay any federal taxes, now Obama is raising the tax rate on those earning 250K or more, but those tax raises will begin to impact an increasing number.......as Obama tries to finance all of the programs he's pushing for the democratic agenda. Next it will be those earning 150K, then 100K, then 75K. It is only a matter of time.

Those earning at the highest levels in our country are sure to push their funds offshore, along with our technology and data, and as many jobs as they possibly can. I do not see Obama providing an ounce of focus to stop that, in fact for the duration of his campaign and presidency, I have yet to hear him even voice an opinion on the offshoring of jobs - not once.



Yes exactly and I think I recall McCain, in one of the Presidential debates, said we should lower taxes on businessmen so they don't go offshore. The mainstream public didn't pay attention and this is a big issue/or will be I think.

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nonesuche
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »

Kermit I can assure you it's a growing issue, I have knowledge I cannot share here, just trust me - we are looking at mammoth job loss by the end of this year alone to offshoring.

I can say this now, I think I would have preferred to see Hillary win than Obama.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 08:26:36 AM »

I'm so discouraged, and appreciate the hope Kermit holds out. I'm trying so hard, but everything I see happening goes against any common sense I have. We've just begun. The latest Trillion we've laid on America's ship is only another installment of what is promised to be coming, and the ship's sailing low enough to take on water, now.

1980's - There was a lot of people out of work, Regan took office and started giving tax cuts. And the economy turned around. I remember a lot of white collar workers out of jobs and homeless. I think it was during this time a lot of Engineers could not find work, because of the influx of Engineers in the market.
We saw the same thing happen to computer guys in the 90s.

1990s there was the Savings & Loan crisis and I remember women with their children standing on corners or at the malls holding signs will work for food. A lot of people lost jobs, men with MBAs were laid off and could not find work.

Oct. 1997 - Black Monday - stocks fell 508 points

Clinton administration takes over and
The Federal government actually began to make a profit of $28 billion from selling assets.

And Nww we see Clintonites onboard with Obama. I'm pretty sure they have the previous experience to move the country in the right direction and pull us out of this economic crisis.

However, with the world economic crisis we might look at other things taking place that could have an impact:
European Union will have control over all nations.

Why would Obama and his team want to find rich private investors in the Middle East, Japan and China?  What happened to the rich people in America?  Why isn't he asking them to invest?

I think the U.S. needs to build some tough economic firewalls around our financial system.  For to long, money and jobs are flooding out of this country, along with prosperity.

Spending money on healthcare, schools, is not prosperity - it is debt.  It's like the high people get from recreational drugs.  Long term, not a good idea.

The "cap and trade" carbon/pollution being proposed/implement is another ponzi scheme being foisted on the American people.  It will create another market to raise the price of energy for Americans.  Who does that profit?  The market traders?  No benefit for Americans.  Are we cleaning anything up?  No, some, big profit traders will be trading, and Americans will be paying more.  Why not make an investment (loans, subsidies, grants) in helping existing facilities to help communities meet higher standards?  PAY only ONE TIME for the future?  Another Ponzi scheme with ratepayers, Americans paying over and over - not raising taxes, but raising every other thing you need to live.

just my humble opinons
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 08:28:12 AM »

Kermit I can assure you it's a growing issue, I have knowledge I cannot share here, just trust me - we are looking at mammoth job loss by the end of this year alone to offshoring.

I can say this now, I think I would have preferred to see Hillary win than Obama.

I voted for Hillary in the primaries.  I don't think the country is headed in the right direction under Obama.  Why would you weigh a country down with massive debt and promises?
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
nonesuche
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2009, 09:16:27 AM »

I'm so discouraged, and appreciate the hope Kermit holds out. I'm trying so hard, but everything I see happening goes against any common sense I have. We've just begun. The latest Trillion we've laid on America's ship is only another installment of what is promised to be coming, and the ship's sailing low enough to take on water, now.

1980's - There was a lot of people out of work, Regan took office and started giving tax cuts. And the economy turned around. I remember a lot of white collar workers out of jobs and homeless. I think it was during this time a lot of Engineers could not find work, because of the influx of Engineers in the market.
We saw the same thing happen to computer guys in the 90s.

1990s there was the Savings & Loan crisis and I remember women with their children standing on corners or at the malls holding signs will work for food. A lot of people lost jobs, men with MBAs were laid off and could not find work.

Oct. 1997 - Black Monday - stocks fell 508 points

Clinton administration takes over and
The Federal government actually began to make a profit of $28 billion from selling assets.

And Nww we see Clintonites onboard with Obama. I'm pretty sure they have the previous experience to move the country in the right direction and pull us out of this economic crisis.

However, with the world economic crisis we might look at other things taking place that could have an impact:
European Union will have control over all nations.

Why would Obama and his team want to find rich private investors in the Middle East, Japan and China?  What happened to the rich people in America?  Why isn't he asking them to invest?

I think the U.S. needs to build some tough economic firewalls around our financial system.  For to long, money and jobs are flooding out of this country, along with prosperity.

Spending money on healthcare, schools, is not prosperity - it is debt.  It's like the high people get from recreational drugs.  Long term, not a good idea.

The "cap and trade" carbon/pollution being proposed/implement is another ponzi scheme being foisted on the American people.  It will create another market to raise the price of energy for Americans.  Who does that profit?  The market traders?  No benefit for Americans.  Are we cleaning anything up?  No, some, big profit traders will be trading, and Americans will be paying more.  Why not make an investment (loans, subsidies, grants) in helping existing facilities to help communities meet higher standards?  PAY only ONE TIME for the future?  Another Ponzi scheme with ratepayers, Americans paying over and over - not raising taxes, but raising every other thing you need to live.

just my humble opinons

WG as difficult as it is for some to accept your questions at times, you a really are doing a strong job of this, I applaud you for it.

I don't have conference calls to lead this morning so I've been trying to scope out the various networks for their experts review of Obama's budget, as we know some are far to the right, to the left, and some more moderate. I am not hearing ANYONE state this budget is a 'fix' to our ills. What I am hearing is:

- Obama is seeking to not just fulfill his desires expressed during his campaign in his first year but to EXCEED those.
- Not one business analyst yet hasn't fainted at the TRILLION DOLLAR PRICE TAG
- The fine print of this budget outlines taking monies from the non-profits in our country to fund universal healthcare and his energy policies. The tax credit for charitable donations will be ELIMINATED.
- The incentive of tax credit for mortgage interest annually will be limited significantly for the population which creates our greatest job growth annually, the small busines owners. Those are the largest number of individuals earning 200 to 250K annually.
- Your energy costs, residential, will likely increase up to 40% as a result of this budget.
- Our private college tuition will rise exponentially for donors will no longer be willing to donate knowing their will be no tax incentive to do so.

That's just what is being discussed this morning, many are stating they are still weeding through the fine print !!!!!!

Donald Trump, not a fave of mine at all but nonetheless, he's been successful for many years - he stated point blank we are currently in a DEPRESSION. He thinks Obama is equally as extreme as Bush was.

I agree.

Beyond the fine print of this drastic radical budget proposal is the mere but critically important fact that currently.........currently CHINA holds 40% of the loans to pay for our deficits. Doesn't that make you rest well at night? A country that we have at best, a tenuous relationship with, can call in the loans at any point in time.

If as we've seen historically radical extreme spending to enlarge government drives up inflation, then our dollar will lose value in the world marketplace overnight.

THAT is when the loans will be called in...........that I do believe can and will happen if this budget proposal is passed in it's current state.

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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2009, 10:11:41 AM »

I believe we've been in a depression for some time.  Another clue of desparation - Obama mentioned 'cancer' in his address.  Everyone knows someone with cancer.  Just like they know people who have babies, people who have heart attacks, and people do live to ripe old ages.  There will never be a cure for 'cancer'.  If health were easy to fix, the common cold would have been cured a long time ago.  It's just another special interest group.

jmho
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It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2009, 10:25:05 AM »

Cash is king in a depression, debt is disaster.  Obama is steering the ship into the iceberg of debt and the natural result is sinking...

jmho
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
nonesuche
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2009, 10:40:25 AM »

Cash is king in a depression, debt is disaster.  Obama is steering the ship into the iceberg of debt and the natural result is sinking...

jmho

If you note the DOW over the last two days I think it's telling the real deal from the 'change', I also think it's telling that the markets have so little faith in the leadership?
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2009, 02:17:40 PM »

Cash is king in a depression, debt is disaster.  Obama is steering the ship into the iceberg of debt and the natural result is sinking...

jmho

If you note the DOW over the last two days I think it's telling the real deal from the 'change', I also think it's telling that the markets have so little faith in the leadership?

The leadership, IMO should be working at finding an end to the insolvent companies.  Don't these people publish financials?  Shouldn't their books be open to inspection?  Did someone overnight withdraw trillions of dollars?  The mortgage bailout seems to be fixable for just a few hundred billion...

The stress test?  Maybe a play for time, let the market continue to fall, create chaos, shatter what is left of public confidnece, ensure a longer recovery, or a recovery with the help of friends like China, Middle Eastern Nations, and Japan?  Why aren't there any rich Americans to invest in these banks?

Where is the financial security for Americans?  A firewall to protect our savings and way of life?  Is life so bad here that people are leaving and migrating elsewhere?

In Wisconsin, the public utilities are tied to coal.  They've made investments in clean coal technology.  Why punish those that are already making a difference?  I think the future should include a diverse energy grid.  The diversity isn't being determined with a 'little' help from Washington.  The winners and losers are clearly being chosen - the winners will no doubt come from the Obama special interest group. 

my opinions
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All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
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