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[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Haleigh`s Brother Says Man in Black Took his Sister

Aired February 23, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida, a 5-year- old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Bombshell tonight. Can Haleigh`s little 4-year-old brother identify the kidnapper? The little boy in the room, sleeping ostensibly with his sister snatched out of her bed, the 4-year-old little boy describing a grown man taking little Haleigh in the middle of the night, dressed entirely in black.

In the last hours, the fiance of Haleigh`s mother taken in an unmarked police car for questioning, as Haleigh`s father, distraught, meets with lead investigators. FBI and police initially zero in on a local sex offender and girlfriend Misty Croslin`s cousin. But tonight, police clearing both in Haleigh`s disappearance.

What more have cops learned from a mystery vehicle seized for evidence? Investigators still refusing to reveal make, model, ownership, as searchers on horseback comb dense woods near Haleigh`s home again tonight. Where is 5-year-old Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings, who police believe was kidnapped from her own bed in the middle of the night. Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, says Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother told her that a man dressed all in black took little Haleigh. Sheffield says a team of investigators have interviewed the boy, but they refuse to comment on what he has told them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say new leads continue to come in, but so far, nothing`s panned out. Haleigh`s grandmother, Teresa Neves, says it`s frustrating, but they`re not giving up hope.

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I feel like my grandbaby is alive. I pray God whoever has her is feeding her and taking care of her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Volunteers were out on horseback over the weekend, looking through areas around the home where Haleigh was last seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, there have been 4,786 man-hours that have been put into ground searches and diving in the water and air searches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family holding out hope little Haleigh will be returned to them safely, staying in tents near the home, refusing to leave until their child is brought back to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will never give up looking for my granddaughter. She`s out there somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators maintain that everyone remains a suspect, as the reward for Haleigh`s recovery continues to climb, now at $20,000.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: I would like to tell my daughter, if she`s watching, baby, I love you and we will find you. I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news in the case of girl-next-door co-ed and Capitol Hill intern 24-year-old Chandra Levy. Levy disappears without a trace after leaving her D.C. apartment in jogging clothes. Almost immediately, police uncover a sex affair between Levy and then Modesto congressman Gary Condit, Condit married with grown children. One year later, Chandra`s remains discovered at nearby Rock Creek Park. But eight years pass, no arrest, no suspect, no justice. Tonight, major development, police set to finally announce an arrest in the murder of Chandra Levy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight years after her death, police are planning an arrest in the killing of Washington federal intern Chandra Levy. CNN has learned the suspect is Ingmar Guandique. He is serving a 10-year sentence for two assaults in the same park where Levy`s remains were found a year after she disappeared. Her parents say news of an arrest is bittersweet.

ROBERT LEVY, CHANDRA`S FATHER: Can`t say who it is right now. We have an idea, of course, but you know, it`s not official, so can`t really say. We just hope we`ll get justice and -- but can`t say we`ll really feel better because, you know, it won`t bring Chandra back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Levy`s case got national attention after her affair with California congressman Gary Condit was disclosed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I`m going to work hard the remaining time that I have there and do everything that I can do to make the valley a better place to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After almost eight years of waiting, an arrest can`t come soon enough for the Levy family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Levy`s parents say they received a call from police telling them a warrant will come soon.

SUSAN LEVY, CHANDRA`S MOTHER: They said there is going to be a warrant out for an arrest, that, We have come up with some positive evidence that will lead to arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Learning about the planned arrest doesn`t make up for the family`s loss.

SUSAN LEVY: There`s no such thing as closure.

ROBERT LEVY: You just don`t forget about it. You have to go through the rest of your life with a hole in it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Can Haleigh`s little 4-year-old brother identify his sister`s kidnapper?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stunning developments in the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, who was abducted from her own bed. According to Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh`s 4-year- old brother saw who took Haleigh.

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER: When I seen him on my visitation, all he said was, I want to find my sissy, and he said something about somebody in black took her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crystal Sheffield says Ronald, Jr., was questioned immediately by a team of people who deal with children. But as with a lot of other potential evidence, police will not comment on specifics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we`re concerned with is the life of this child and what we`re concerned with is the recovery of this child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities are looking through 1,600 tips as part of their investigation into what happened to 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. On day 14 of their investigation, law enforcement officials say everyone remains a suspect and they will continue to pursue leads until Haleigh is found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every lead that comes in, that`s what we`re pushing and that`s what we`re trying to get resolved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they will be conducting tactical searches based on tips and any evidence that comes in, while the family remains in tents, praying for Haleigh`s safe recovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main focus is finding Haleigh Cummings and getting her home to her family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t wait just to touch her, just to hold her in my arms. I can`t wait until she`s home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by at the Sheffield family tent there in Satsuma. Marlaina, what`s the latest?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the latest, Nancy, is that Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother identified the man he saw who took Haleigh who came into the home that night. He told his step-grandmother, Connie (ph) Sheffield, that a man dressed in black took his sister, Haleigh, the night she went missing. He had no other description, and they didn`t push the little boy because special investigators were called in to talk to him the night that Haleigh went missing.

GRACE: To T.J. Hart, program news director at WSKY 97.3 FM. T.J. what more can you tell me? It`s my understanding that the little boy also revealed the same story to his biological mother.

T.J. HART, WSKY 93.7 FM: Yes, that`s the story that we`ve been pursuing today, as well. She said that a man dressed in black got into the home and took Haleigh, and he says, I miss my sissy. And you know -- and right now, you hear those words, it`s -- my God, where do you go from here? And of course, where they went from there is that the child has been interviewed by a team of people who deal specifically with children in situations similar to this.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. And remember, if you think back to cases such as the Elizabeth Smart case -- recall in that case, the little sister -- took her several months, but she ultimately identified Brian David Mitchell, joined that night, we understand, by his nutcase wife, Wanda Barzee, as coming into the home. It took her a while. She was just a little girl, around 4 years old at the time, as I recall. She kind of described the guy that night, and several months later, she put two and two together, and it was thanks to her that Elizabeth Smart`s attacker was finally, ultimately identified.

I want to go out to your calls. To Dominique in Ohio. Hi, Dominique.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. Good evening.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just very curious. Have they thoroughly checked out the father as to what time he gets to work, when he leaves, how far it is from the house, did he take a lunch break, you know, that sort of thing, because I still lean...

GRACE: Excellent question, Dominique, because as you and I both know, you always look in the circle right around the victim -- fathers, brothers. In grown women missing or murdered, you look for lovers, boyfriends, husbands, exes.

Out to T.J. Hart with WSKY 97.3. T.J., it`s my understanding his story has checked out. What do you know?

HART: That is absolutely correct. Law enforcement has verified that he was where he said he was, which was at work. And work has confirmed that, too. Everything has checked out.

GRACE: To Crystal Sheffield, special guest joining us there at the Sheffield family tent in Satsuma. Everyone, the family forced to live in tents right now. They have nowhere else to go. The home is still quarantined. It is cordoned off as a crime scene. Ms. Sheffield, thank you for being with us. I understand your 4-year-old little boy identifies or at least has a description of his sister`s kidnapper?

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: Yes. He -- when I got him for my visitation, the first thing he said to me was, Mommy, I want to find my sissy. And he -- I didn`t question him about none of it. And he was, like, Somebody come in, they was all dressed in black, and took my sissy.

GRACE: Did he say anything else identifying the man, anything at all, any characteristics?

SHEFFIELD: No. He just said that they was dressed in black or he was dressed in black, whoever it was.

GRACE: Did he describe in any way what happened? He opened the door and came in, or the little boy woke up and saw him there? Did he describe anything at all about what the man actually did?

SHEFFIELD: No. He just said a man dressed in black come in and took his sissy. I didn`t ask him any questions.

GRACE: Smart. Very, very smart, Ms. Sheffield. Now, Ms. Sheffield, I know this sounds crazy, but to the best of your recollection, what were his exact words?

SHEFFIELD: He said, Mommy, I want to find my sissy and some man in black come in and took her.

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Angie in Kentucky. Hi, Angie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. My husband and I watch you every day, and...

GRACE: Angie in Kentucky, thank you for watching. And if you`re like me, I know that you`re praying and hoping for the best for this little girl. Go ahead, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The thing I`ve been listening to a lot on Jane Velez-Mitchell and Mike during the day is I keep hearing how the mother keeps talking about the bad things about the dad.

GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear what you just said. The mother keeps talking about what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She keeps bringing up all the bad things in the past about the father. And to me, that should be -- that shouldn`t even matter right now. Her main focus should be on finding...

GRACE: OK. And your question, Angie, is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is, has she taken a lie detector test? Have they done one on her?

GRACE: Well, I will ask her right now. Ms. Sheffield, have you taken a lie detector test?

SHEFFIELD: I sure have.

GRACE: And did you pass it?

SHEFFIELD: As far as I know. The man that did it told me he thinks I did, but they had to send it off to Washington to...

GRACE: And did you do it voluntarily? Did you protest or did you go...

SHEFFIELD: Yes, I did.

GRACE: Everyone, Crystal Sheffield announcing tonight she has taken and passed a lie detector test. We are taking your calls live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say new leads continue to come in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve processed over 1,600 leads to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But so far, nothing`s panned out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not any closer to knowing where she is at the moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s grandmother, Teresa Neves, says it`s frustrating, but they`re not giving up hope.

NEVES: We will never give up looking for my granddaughter. She`s out there somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will not give up hope and we will not stop praying until Haleigh is found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say, like the family, they`re also frustrated, but they`re not discouraged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somewhere along the line is going to be the tip that leads us to her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ll continue to search and follow up on new leads until the little girl is found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sooner or later, we`re going to find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: OK, was your back door locked, do you know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. The back door always stays locked.

CUMMINGS: I need somebody (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: OK, let me speak to (INAUDIBLE)

CUMMINGS: I just got home from work, my 5-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now, I`m telling you.

911 OPERATOR: Listen to me. Listen to me. We`ve got two officers...

CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before y`all do, I`m killing him. I don`t care. I`ll spend the rest of my life in prison, I`m telling you. You can put it on the report, and I don`t care.

911 OPERATOR: OK. It`s OK, sir. We`ve got them on the way. OK, can you give me any -- what kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing?

CUMMINGS: I don`t (DELETED) know! I was at work!

911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, we`ve got them coming, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Where is 5-year-old Haleigh? Straight out to Marie Griffis, maternal grandmother of Haleigh. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh`s biological mother, announcing she has willingly taken a polygraph and was told that she passed.

To Marie Griffis, the grandmother -- Ms. Griffis, thank you for being with us. To your understanding, has the little boy told other people about the description of the kidnapper?

MARIE GRIFFIS, MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Not that I know of. Just Connie and Crystal.

GRACE: And was his story consistent?

GRIFFIS: Yes. From what Connie told me, he talked about a man dressed in black, and then Crystal said the same thing.

GRACE: To a special guest joining us tonight, crime analyst and director of cold case squad at Pine Lake PD, Sheryl McCollum. Sheryl, weigh in.

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD, PINE LAKE PD: Nancy, one thing that bothers me is who takes a child not for ransom? It`s going to be a sexual predator. And if I remember correctly, there are 44 sexual predators within a five-mile radius.

GRACE: A sex predator or someone that has been targeting the family. You can`t count that out, of course. As you know, the girl in the pink hat, little Jessie, that was a sex offender that had been targeting her for some time. How do you compare the two, Sheryl?

MCCOLLUM: Well, most sex offenders are going to stay within that area. And you know, the best way to hide is to fit in. And I think here, you`re looking at a very similar situation, where somebody comes in and they take her for one purpose and one purpose only.

GRACE: Joining us tonight, Matt Zarrell. Matt, I want to talk to you about the fiance of the mother being taken in for questioning today. He was not arrested, correct?

MATTHEW ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: No, he wasn`t. It was Chad Griffis. He`s Haleigh`s mother`s fiance. Now, he was brought in for questioning. Now, this is not the first time he`s been brought in for questioning. He was brought in a couple of weeks ago and asked when the last time he saw Haleigh was, and he said a couple weeks before she went missing.

GRACE: To Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh`s mom. Why was he taken in again, Crystal?

SHEFFIELD: To be -- I think it was something Ronald had said to him.

GRACE: About?

SHEFFIELD: Oh, what was it...

GRIFFIS: It was actually a misunderstanding.

SHEFFIELD: It was a misunderstanding between -- it was told to my brother that Ronald said he was 75 percent sure he knew who took Haleigh. And they misunderstood it and took Chad in instead of my brother.

GRACE: I understand. So to Marie Griffis, what was the outcome of that?

GRIFFIS: I have no idea. The last we heard, the officer was going over to my son`s house to talk to him about what Ronald had told him. And Ronald`s not -- I mean, Marcus (ph) is not the only person that Ronald had this story to. We have a lady that stays up here at our tent. She`s from Pensacola, Florida. She come here when she heard this on the radio. They come straight to here to be with us. We don`t know these people. We just met them. Her name is Teresa (ph). And she went down the day she got here, which was Thursday, to Ronald`s tent. And she was off to the side talking to him, and he told her that he was 75 percent sure he knew that Misty`s cousin, Joe, took Haleigh. So the stories kind of match.

GRACE: Yes. Long story short tonight, we know that that cousin has been cleared, along with a local sex offender that was questioned several times after he broke curfew that evening.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of New York, family law and child advocate Susan Moss, out of San Francisco, famed attorney John Burris, and out of the Seattle jurisdiction, high-profile lawyer Anne Bremner. Sue Moss, what do you think?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Man in black. Unless this child was kidnapped by a ninja, this is a huge clue. That means somebody planned this. They planned and they got dressed in black. That means they were probably scouting out this trailer park, and maybe, just maybe somebody saw him.

GRACE: John Burris?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that part is correct. But the other side of this, how did he get into the house? And that`s the part that is most troubling. It`s hard -- the young girl said the door was locked. So that means not only was there planning, but there has to be some complicity somewhere here, so there are a lot of clues still around...

GRACE: Anne Bremner, Burris -- there he goes with the conspiracy theory. Weigh in, Bremner.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I -- you know, I -- but I agree. I mean, everyone right now is a suspect...

GRACE: Complicity? Why is everybody trying to blame the 17-year-old, like she`s so sophisticated she could fake out the cops for this long?

BREMNER: Nancy, all I`m saying right now is that everybody`s a suspect and nobody`s a suspect.

GRACE: OK, well...

BREMNER: It`s wide open.

GRACE: ... before we start trying to blame the family, let`s take a look at what we`ve already got. They`ve taken polygraphs. They`ve been cooperative. They`ve done everything the police asked them. They`re living in tents, all right?

Everybody, you are seeing photos of little Haleigh right now. The tip line is 888-277-TIPS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying to do everything to find her. You know, I`ll answer any questions I have to because I know I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her. I mean, they love me. I mean, they look at me like their mom, you know? You ask little Junior, he`ll tell you. You know, they talk about me, about being I`m so good to them kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Yes, there`s the lady that everybody keeps saying is faking out the cops and taking lie detectors, cooperating all along. You really think a 17-year-old girl can fake out the entire police squad? I don`t think so. Maybe I`m the crazy one tonight.

To Pat in Ohio. Hi, Pat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve been trying to get ahold of you for six months. Your kids are so darn cute!

GRACE: You know what? I am blessed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know you...

GRACE: I am blessed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the twins. And you know what? You`re such a wonderful advocate for children. The only thing I haven`t heard mentioned in this whole case -- how come nobody talks about Misty`s mother or family? It`s never seemed to be mentioned.

GRACE: Interesting question. Let`s go to T.J. Hart with WSKY. What about them? Now, we know about the cousin that was in town and mysteriously disappeared when she goes missing, but he`s been cleared.

HART: That`s true. The cousin, Joe, as he was somewhat identified as, has been cleared as of Saturday afternoon at about 3:05, when Captain Dick Shuller (ph) said, No, he`s no longer a person of interest, he`s not a suspect. They cleared him, actually, early on in the investigation.

Misty Croslin, of course, has been the focus -- a great deal of focus has been placed on her with some alleged inconsistencies with her stories. But as far as Ms. Croslin`s mom, to be quite honest with you, I`ve not met her yet. That`s one of the few people I`ve failed to walk into after being in the area for the amount of time that I have.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still very few answers for police and the family of Haleigh Cummings. But there`s some new information on several fronts. One of them involving Haleigh`s little brother, 4-year-old Ronald Jr. Today his and Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, said the boy stole her something rather astonishing, that a man in black came and took his sister.

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOM OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: When I seen him on my visitation all he said was I want to find my sissy and he said something about somebody in black took her. He said he was all dressed in black. But I didn`t question him. I`m not going to question him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crystal Sheffield says Ronald Jr. was questioned immediately by a team of people who deal with children. That is with a lot of other potential evidence police will not comment on specifics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we`re concerned with is the life of this child and what we`re concerned with is the recovery of this child. And we`re going to do anything we can to recover her. We don`t want to give out any information that`s going to jeopardize that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1120 to 1271.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead, Sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay at the residence. Maintain that point of access, (INAUDIBLE) canines and do another thorough search from inside the house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a 10-4.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-4 1054.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 10-4 I`m back on Green Lane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-4 Go ahead and just gather as much information as you can about any family or anything around here and go ahead and call in her and get a signal and report her as 8.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has already been done, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You start taking tags and stopping vehicles that leaving for this area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We find out that another search on horseback goes down in the densely wooded area behind the Cummings home.

To Matt Zarrell, that search has already been done several times. Why do they keep going back to this area?

MATTHEW ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Well, at this point we know that the searchers continue to look in all the areas because they don`t have any leads at this point. The cops are sharing some information with them that we know of, but at this point searchers are going on just instincts and reaction at this point.

GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, standing by there at the Sheffield family tent in Satsuma, Florida. You had the opportunity to interview the babysitter/girlfriend Misty Croslin today. And yes, she`s got some strikes against her. Last one to see the victim. Inconsistencies in her story.

On the other hand, she has fully cooperated with police. What is she telling you?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH HALEIGH`S FAMILY TODAY: Misty -- I mean, you have to remember she`s 17 years old. She loves those children. She says she has nothing to hide. She has passed many polygraph tests. She -- her family is very supportive of her. Their family home is right across from the father`s side -- the paternal side`s tent.

Misty, basically, said that she had nothing to hide, she loves those children, she would never do anything to them. The media is vilifying her at this point and so is the general public.

GRACE: Well, here`s the thing. Back to you Sheryl McCollum. In other cases it`s very apparent when the mother or caregiver is somehow implicated. In this case, yes, she had some inconsistencies in her story, which, in my mind, could be explained through a semantic issue and the wording of her answers.

Yes, there are a few problems. But it`s hard for me to believe that a 17-year-old girl could fake out the cops for this long. And what about the little 4-year-old? Wouldn`t he say Misty took my sister?

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Sure, he would. He would not only say Misty took my sister. He would be very clear if she kicked her, hit her, took her out of the house, whatever. He would know that. He would be able to tell that beautifully.

GRACE: What about it, John Burris.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think that we`re going to say that she is the one that took the child. The question is, did she have -- was it a complicity situation with the man in black? I mean I don`t think we will say ever that she is the one who did it. I mean the question that you have here is how could it be.

GRACE: Well, John Burris.

BURRIS: No, let try to (INAUDIBLE) to a point.

GRACE: Come on. No, no, no.

BURRIS: How could it be, though?

GRACE: That`s the same thing. Party to a crime, all for one, one for all. Complicit means you`re just as involved.

BURRIS: Well, obviously. That`s obviously true. I`m just saying how did the person get in? How did that happen? If she says the door is locked.

GRACE: The same burglaries happen every minute in this country. Hello.

BURRIS: Well, that means you`ve got to be stalking this particular person.

GRACE: So?

BURRIS: You`ve got to have some information.

GRACE: Yes?

BURRIS: Maybe you`ve been in the house. Maybe there`s something going on. All I`m saying there has to be a way to get into the house. I`m not saying this girl did anything. You can`t rule it out.

GRACE: It`s called doors and windows. That`s how you get into a house, Burris. And you`re saying I`m not saying she did it but saying she`s complicit.

BURRIS: I`m not finished.

GRACE: . is in reality saying she did it.

BURRIS: I`m just saying she has to be ruled like everyone else. Just because the cops haven`t said certain things doesn`t mean she`s been ruled out.

GRACE: OK.

BURRIS: You know that, too.

GRACE: You know what? Anne Bremner, am I deaf or did he say complicit?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m not going to -- I think there`s his side, your side and the facts.

GRACE: So you`d rather believe him than your own lying ears. OK, whatever.

BREMNER: Well, Nancy, I think the bottom line is.

GRACE: I need the peanut gallery to agree with me.

BREMNER: Nancy, you know.

GRACE: Yes.

BREMNER: . I always agree with you. But the bottom line is, is right now we really have to look at everybody and John is right. Until they`re ruled out you`ve got to look at people, you know.

GRACE: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Look, I`m not taking her side or against her. I`m on neither side right now, because the evidence is not clear to me, Sue Moss. So she`s neither in nor out.

BREMNER: OK.

GRACE: I just find it hard to believe that a 17-year-old can lead people on a wild goose chase for this long. Plus, the 4-year-old boy is there. Wouldn`t he say Misty did it?

BREMNER: Well, it`s.

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Speaking of in and out, I think the only question is did she happen to leave that back door open, whether by accident, whether by going out or for any other reason.

GRACE: To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychologist. Dr. Taylor, back to the Elizabeth Smart case. In that case, the 9-year-old little sister was in the room with Smart when she was kidnapped and, yes, the perpetrator had been at the home before.

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: You`re absolutely right. But the difference here in the Smart case she was 9, and this young man is 4 years old. Yes, he`s capable of giving a description. But at 4, you really have to sort out is it fantasy, is it imaginary, did he wake up? Was he dreaming?

And I think it`s interesting that investigators immediately didn`t hear that story. And that would be my only concern. Is this fantasy or is it reality?

GRAPHICS: Well, Doctor, maybe they did and they didn`t reveal it.

To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, what do you believe, with your experience, about a 4- year-old under these circumstances accurately identifying the kidnapper? I mean Elizabeth Smart`s little sister did it, but she was 9.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, the vast majority of the time they are forthcoming and honest and truthful. But there is significant psychological trauma from the separation anxiety of losing a sibling. And that can be so severe they can clutter their fears and nightmares with reality sometimes.

GRACE: Now, you know, Dr. Makary, out of all the people I`ve ever put on the stand, some of the best witnesses and the most truthful witnesses I ever had were children, except for one dog. OK. Other than him, children had the least ability to lie under oath.

A question regarding Turner syndrome that Haleigh suffers. Would an abductor be able to care for her with Turner syndrome?

MAKARY: Yes. What we know about her Turner syndrome is that she required special care. She was at risk for infections. And she did have an anxiety about being in the dark. So we know there were special medical concerns related to the Turner syndrome, in part, and probably related to the component of it that your immune system is down and your heart does not pump quite as efficiently with the Turner syndrome.

GRACE: Back to New York psychiatrist, Dr. Janet Taylor, also a medical doctor. Dr. Taylor, earlier a caller was venting regarding the family attacking each other. We`ve got separations. You`ve got fiancees, living girlfriend, the whole kit and caboodle.

But you know what, Dr. Taylor, under these circumstances, you expect for other problems to arise, to boil over.

TAYLOR: Well, absolutely. There was conflict before this happened. There`s going to be conflict during. Everyone is pointing fingers. The whole point now is they need to communicate, communicate together. Now is not the time to blame. They need to band together as one and try to find this little girl.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live.

Has Haleigh`s little 4-year-old brother been able to make an identification as to his sister`s kidnapper? That reward is climbing.

Very quickly to tonight`s case alert, the search for a missing 4-year- old California girl, Monica Morales, kidnapped from her Thousand Palms home by two women posing as social workers, both in their 30s, shoulder length brown hair. Police on the lookout for a green minivan heading toward the Mexican border. 4-year-old Monica last seen in a yellow shirt, blue pants, yellow sandals.

If you have info, call Riverside County Sheriff`s, 760-836-1644.

And the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Foundation fights the number one cancer killer in the world. Lung cancer claiming more lives than breast, colon, prostate, melanoma and kidney combined. You don`t have to smoke to get lung cancer.

Joan Gaeta, a mother of five, a beloved wife, a teacher, lost her battle against lung cancer and her family is fighting back. Please go to Joan.org, ForJoan.org.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a driven, bright-eyed 24-year-old intern, one of thousands who flocked to Washington when semesters changed. A little dazzled by the power of this place, a little giddy with her own sense of possibility.

Chandra Levy came here interning at the Federal Department of Prisons, dreaming of a job with the FBI. When spring arrived, she packed her suitcase for a trip back home to Modesto, California. She never got on the plane.

On May 1st, 2001, Chandra Levy disappeared into thin air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My precious daughter. I just want her back. I just want her back alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now eight years after the trail seemed to have gone cold, a potential break in the case. A source close to the investigation confirms that the suspect in the Chandra Levy case is Ingmar Guandique. Guandique has denied any involvement in her death.

For Chandra Levy`s parents, who have been told an arrest is imminent, it is a glimmer of hope in the search for justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s pretty hard not having your child with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, you want justice. You want the person, you know, incarcerated and you want justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Finally, a break in the case. An arrest is imminent.

To Lisa DePaulo, investigative reporter, she covered the Levy case from the very, very beginning.

Lisa, what`s happening?

LISA DEPAULO, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST, COVERED LEVY CASE FROM BEGINNING: Well, tight now, there should be an arrest momentarily. I`m told that either tomorrow or Wednesday, the U.S. attorney will be divulging some of what this new evidence was that allowed them to have this warrant and believe they have a solid case.

GRACE: Sari Horowitz also joining us, investigative reporter with "The Washington Post." Sari, what are you hearing?

SARI HOROWITZ, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST, DID 13 PART SERIES ON LEVY CASE: We don`t know what the new evidence is, Nancy, but we spent a year looking at this case and re-examining it and turning over every rock and we interviewed Ingmar Guandique in prison, we interviewed Gary Condit, we interviewed the investigators. And our series concluded that all signs pointed toward Ingmar Guandique as the prime suspect.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Sari Horowitz, Lisa DePaulo, is that way back at the get-go, park police -- there had been -- there was Chandra Levy`s death. There were two other female attacks, similar attacks, attempted rapes in the same park. And Guandique was the suspect in those. And he actually made the statement that he saw Chandra Levy in the park the day she was murdered.

Lisa DePaulo, explain to me does two plus two still equal four or do I need to go back to kindergarten?

DEPAULO: Well, I`ve got to tell you that was one of the amazing thing in Sari`s investigation that she found that out. Hello, I mean, he put himself at the scene of the crime. You know and that -- way back when Guandique was always one of those people of interest.

But a lot of the cops did not think the MO was the same. And one of the things that they kept saying was, well, you know, yes, he stole these women`s Walkmen and you know, tormented them a little bit in the park, but he`s not a violent killer. Well, in fact, as Sari found, you know, one of the reasons they didn`t know his MO was the same was because they hadn`t even interviewed all the women he had assaulted.

GRACE: Is that true, Sari?

HOROWITZ: The problem is the U.S. park police interviewed Guandique. They arrested Guandique. The D.C. police were investigating the Chandra Levy case and the two never put the dots together. They never connected the case. And so when we went back, we found that the D.C. police had never interviewed the two women that Guandique attacked. And in fact, when we interviewed them they said they were -- they feared for their life because this man attacked them while they were jogging with Sony Walkman and he.

GRACE: Just like Chandra Levy.

HOROWITZ: Exactly. And he attacked them at knife point. And they fought him off and they were able to escape. One of them had taken a self defense course. They were bigger women than Chandra Levy. And once he was arrested in prison he allegedly told an inmate that, in fact, he killed Chandra Levy. This was in 2001.

And the police gave him a lie detector test not using a bilingual polygrapher. And the test was inconclusive. And they disregarded him. He went off their radar.

GRACE: To Boni Driskill, she is a friend of the Levy family, she is president of Wings of Protection.

Miss Driskill, thank you for being with us. How are the Levys taking this development?

BONI DRISKILL, FRIEND OF LEVY FAMILY, PRESIDENT, WINGS OF PROTECTION: Yes. As with most families that we deal with Wings of Protection, they are absolutely in shock. It`s been eight years. And we`re happy but it`s a bittersweet moment.

GRACE: To Dr. Henry Lee, forensic scientist, who examined the crime scene and Chandra Levy`s remains -- Dr. Lee, thank you for being with us. Reportedly DNA evidence is linking Guandique to Chandra Levy`s murder. What type of evidence could show that connection since we know the remains were skeletonized?

HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, EXAMINED CRIME SCENE & CHANDRA LEVY`S REMAINS: Yes, Nancy, you`re right. The remains was skeletonized. However, the fingernails still there. In addition, her clothing and maybe underwear. So a close examination may resolve some potential biological evidence.

I also look at a long time ago this MO is pretty similar. It`s the same location, same setting, Rocky Creek Park, attacked a woman. And of course the two previous case (sic) when the victim indicates knife was used. That`s a violent action. The second one, because the individual lady have walking dogs and I don`t know the dog play factor on that in this case.

GRACE: Back to Lisa DePaulo, investigative reporter. She covered the Levy case from the very beginning. Did you hear Condit`s response? As usual, it`s still all about him. I say from the get-go, Lisa DePaulo, that he hamstrung so much of the investigation by not being forthcoming with the police at the beginning.

DEPAULO: Well, look, I mean, there were two things he said that were just ridiculous but one was, you know, it was this insatiable -- need for sensationalism that blocked people from finding the real truth. Well, you know, it wasn`t insatiable sensationalism that kept Gary Condit from cooperating with the police weeks and weeks and weeks.

And you know, Susan Levy just wrote this great essay on "Daily Beast" and it said, you know what, he did everything in his power to deter the police investigation. That`s pretty strong stuff. But you remember, you remember that summer.

And the other he said which was ridiculous was, you know, he`s been wanting to tell his side of the story. Hello? Everybody, everybody wanted his side of the story including the police and including the Levys.

So it`s a shame. If he had put it out there, if he had been more cooperative, perhaps they would have moved on to, you know, Guandique or come close to finding her body sooner.

GRACE: You know, Lisa, I know that you`ve stayed in close touch with Levys throughout all of this. Is this a surprise for them?

DEPAULO: Oh, wow. I think it has to be. I mean I think everyone felt, you know, that this might never, ever be solved. And I think, yes, they`re in a state of shock in some ways. And I think that they`re also, you know, it`s really bittersweet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s a shock. (INAUDIBLE) you know, long time, you don`t think about it all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Didn`t expect it to happen. And plan to do something else. And all of a sudden you get this call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Unleash the lawyer, Susan Moss, John Burris, Anne Bremner.

Anne Bremner, he tries to rape two women according to police, and now a third is dead, Chandra Levy. Any chance they`ll seek the death penalty? Probably not.

BREMNER: Probably not, although, as you know, Nancy, that the potentially here is it`s a sexual violence, getting involved with the death and then kidnapping, et cetera, but his best defense is going to be the Gary Condit examination in terms of everyone believing that he did the crime. But probably not. We`ll see. It`s a three strikes in a way with the other two...

GRACE: John Burris?

BREMNER: The other two incidents.

BURRIS: No, I don`t think so. But -- you know.

GRACE: Why, John Burris? Three women victims not enough for you for the death penalty to be sought?

BURRIS: Well, I am not for the death penalty at any point in time. So that`s my view so.

GRACE: Yes, I know. Second verse same as the first. Thank you, John Burris.

Susan Moss, what about it?

MOSS: They`ll probably seek it. But had Gary Condit taken lie detector test, maybe his career wouldn`t in a dead rest.

GRACE: Yes, he even had to give up his Baskin-Robbins. Correct, Lisa DePaulo?

DEPAULO: Apparently revoked his ice cream license. It`s been tough.

GRACE: You know, that karma can really bite you in the neck. And Dr. Henry Lee, could the perp`s DNA still be on her clothing even a year later?

LEE: Yes, if sufficient amount of DNA was to occur and new technology, trace amount of DNA, so-called touch DNA, may be able to find enough evidence. Of course.

GRACE: Right.

LEE: . with some luck, with fingernail, maybe find some additional evidence.

GRACE: And Sheryl McCollum, quickly, yes, no, didn`t he push the other two victims down the ravine as well?

MCCOLLUM: Absolutely. All three went down the ravine.

GRACE: Incredible similarity.

Let`s stop remember, Army Private First Class Leonard Gulczynski, just 19, Carol Stream, Illinois, killed Iraq. From a family of vets. Awarded the National Defense Service Medal. Loved football, volleyball, remembered for his laugh and smile. Leaves behind parents, Mike and Jackie. Sister Jackie, brother, Mike. Girlfriend Michelle.

Leonard Gulczynski, American hero.

Thank you to our guests and especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/23/ng.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/23/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Criminal Record for Missing Girl`s Father?

Aired February 23, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, shocking updates in the disappearance of Haleigh Cummings. Little brother Junior reportedly told their mother that a man dressed in black entered the home and took Haleigh. Is this stunning clue enough to help police crack the case?

And an interview with Haleigh`s father Ronald boils over as the reporter confronts him with allegations that he hit his daughter and sold drugs. We`ll tell you Ronald`s angry response to those claims.

And what happened with a reported Haleigh sighting in Tennessee? Was it another dead end?

Then, a horrific crime as an 11-year-old boy is charged with shooting dead his father`s pregnant fiance. The reported murder weapon? A shotgun given to him by his dad as a Christmas present. What ever happened to giving a toy train? Unbelievably, the 11-year-old was being held in an adult jail. I`ll have the details on this tragic story about America`s gun culture.

Plus, we all know Octomom Nadya Suleman. Meet Octodad, or at least the man who claims to be the octuplet donor. Denis Beaudoin says he donated sperm to Suleman three times because he was in love with her. You won`t believe some of the creepy details.

And Suleman`s father questions her sanity on national TV. I`ll have the latest bizarre twists in this shocking story.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning twists and turns tonight in the desperate search for missing Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. Startling new allegations that her father, Ron Cummings, hit Haleigh, abused her mother while she was pregnant with Haleigh, and used illegal drugs. All of these accusations made by little Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield.

Sheffield was interviewed over the weakened by Geraldo Rivera on FOX. Here are her shocking comments about Haleigh`s father, Ron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: My cousin Candice told me when we got down here for this incident that he come to her house. It was Ronald, Haleigh, Junior, and Misty. And Haleigh bumped into him or smarted off to him, and she said he just backhanded her, and she fell flat on her face on the porch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ron Cummings left with no choice but to respond to those allegations. Clearly, he was not very happy and called the claims lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: Never, ever have I ever hit my child. Me and my child have an agreement. Daddy, daughter, she has been spanked on her behind the way DCF says that you can take care of disciplining your children.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You never backhanded her to the face?

CUMMINGS: Never. Never have I ever backhanded my child in the face. Ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Parents already in anguish, being torn further apart by a nasty war of words. How relevant is any of this to little Haleigh`s disappearance? We will debate that.

Also tonight, reports that Haleigh`s younger brother, Junior, says he saw a man in black take Haleigh away. Could his account of that fateful fight two weeks ago -- it`s been two weeks -- help find his big sister?

So much to talk about. And as always, I am taking your calls. But first, let`s go straight to my fabulous panel. Darren Kavinoky, criminal defense attorney; and Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney. Plus, we`re going to talk to the Reverend Terry Wright, the pastor for Haleigh Cummings` family, as well as Deirdre Conner, a reporter for the "Florida Times-Union."

Deirdre, what is the very latest? And we`re hearing something about a rap sheet involving Ron Cummings.

DEIRDRE CONNER, REPORTER, "FLORIDA TIMES-UNION": Well, Jane, the newest, as you said, there`s an increase in the reward. They`re continuing to follow up with a number of family members.

But the real news is that there`s no news in terms of leads or solid information that`s been given to the media about the disappearance of Haleigh.

And in terms of the arrest, the "Times-Union" and Jacksonville.com reported last week on some arrests of the father, Ronald Cummings, in 2001 and other previous years. But there were no convictions in those cases.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

Darren Kavinoky, this is only relevant, I think, if it helps us find little Haleigh. And obviously we`ve got a Hatfields and McCoys situation down there right now, where these two sides of the family are at loggerheads, fighting with each other.

And my question is, is it relevant, given the fact that the sheriff`s department said that Ron, the father`s, alibi checked out? In other words, he was at work and raced home when he found out his daughter was missing. And he`s heard on the 911 call, which we`re going to play momentarily.

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with you, that the only way this becomes relevant is if it helps investigators track down people who may have had a motive to do harm to Ron or to his family.

But if he`s not a target in the investigation, then the notion that he had committed criminal acts in the past, it`s really not important, except perhaps in the court of public opinion.

And it`s just so interesting. I really feel for this family. And I know they must be in a tremendous amount of pain. But when I heard Haleigh`s biological mom describing what had been related to her about how Haleigh had been backhanded, you get into these reliability issues and these hearsay problems. And what`s her motivation?

And this is the least reliable kind of evidence. And there`s no reason to slander Dad if he`s not a target in this investigation. All of the energy should be directed at helping to find this missing little girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t agree more. And the reason we`re discussing it is that there is a possibility that somewhere in all of this information, there is something that would help us solve this mystery of what happened to this child who was taken while she was fast asleep. Nobody can make heads or tails out of it.

Now, Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, says Haleigh wasn`t the only one abused at the hands of Ron Cummings. Listen to another incident that she described on FOX.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEFFIELD: We were living in Leesburg at his mother`s house. And I had just found out I was pregnant. We were both doing cocaine. And I stopped. And I walked in the bedroom, and he was doing it. And I was like, "You know, how are you going to do this in front of me after I just found out I was pregnant and I just stopped?"

And he got very pissed off. And I had my -- I was facing -- I had my back turned to him. He punched me in the head. And then I turned around, and he kicked me off the bed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Now, these two have been at loggerheads before. And as we`ve been discussing, can she really be counted on as an unbiased source?

And we have to point out, Drew Findling, that it was Ron who got custody of the kids, potentially meaning that he was considered the better parent at the end of the day.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. There`s no doubt that that is an issue here. There was a determination by a court that taking these two parents and, comparing them to one another, he would be the better parent. The child would be better off, or the children would be better off in the custody of him.

But apparently, he`s holding off at making allegations at the mom. And the reason why he is and he shouldn`t, it has nothing to do with the pathology of abduction. Because that`s the issue here, the pathology of abduction and who would abduct and secret away a child. This is all a distraction and frankly, this is a time when media and press don`t serve a purpose.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. I -- Pastor Terry Wright, you are the pastor for Haleigh Cummings` family. We`re so happy that you`re joining us tonight. Because perhaps you could make sense of all the friction that is going on down there, as obviously the frustration level mounts, now that we are two weeks since little Haleigh disappeared.

What do you make -- I`m sure you`ve heard of all of the goings-on here and the claims and counter-claims involving Haleigh`s biological mother and father. What do you make of all of it, sir?

REV. TERRY WRIGHT, PASTOR FOR CUMMINGS FAMILY: You know, Jane, it`s a tragic situation. Ronald joined our church about three years ago. So a lot of the incidents y`all have been talking about happened prior to me coming to know Ronald and being his friend.

But it`s certainly tragic. Here are two young people who are very bright when you get to know them off camera. If you really sit down and talk with them. And they`ve made choices throughout the early years of their life that`s really impacted them. And that`s tragic.

And now there`s a 5-year-old girl missing, and that is just so terrible. And so our hope and prayer first is for Haleigh, that she comes back. And then after that, you know, hopefully we`ll spend some time with Ronald and Crystal and do some working on some reconciliation and healing of the relationship.

So it`s -- you know, it`s just -- it`s bad all the way around. And we`re just praying the best for Haleigh right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And Ashley, everyone`s hearts go out to all involved here. Who knows how we would behave in a similar situation when we`re desperate for a child that has been missing for two weeks.

Deirdre Conner, I want to go back to something that just broke, just as we were about to go on the air. And that is that a local station down there, WESH, is reporting that Haleigh`s mother has a fiance and that that fiance was interviewed by investigators today. What do you know?

CONNER: Well, I think it`s pretty clear prom the police that they are talking to everybody involved in this situation, whether it`s family, people in the area. They searched the area very extensively. So I wouldn`t be surprised to hear that any member of the very large families involved here would be interviewed at some point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Darren, here`s the thing that I`m getting out of this, is that we`ve got a cast of characters. Obviously, there`s the possibility of a stranger abduction, but there seems to be a sense down there, that how would somebody have known to go in there at that moment had they not known this family?

So it`s like everybody is looking at each other and developing suspicions, and a vacuum has been created because authorities are not excluding anyone as suspects.

KAVINOKY: Right. And with the passage of time, those kinds of suspicions only fester and grow worse, and people are more concerned about her well-being. And as a result of that, they become more desperate. It really is a horrible situation for that.

And, of course, in any child abduction, there`s always concern about family members. And those are going to be the first people that you talk to.

And your point is a great one, Jane. How is it that somebody other than a person with inside knowledge is going to be able to carry this crime out in the way that it was done? It really is a tough situation.

And I just want to digress for one moment here. I think the value that the media really brings to this is to keep all of these points in -- in focus, because without media coverage, we`re -- this little girl is not going to be on our radar.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And the reward is up -- it`s up to, I think, $41,000, right, Deirdre?

CONNER: Yes, that`s what we understand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. The reward keeps rising. Keep your eyes on that little girl`s photo. We`ve got to find her.

All right, everyone. Stay right there. And don`t forget: Nancy Grace is up immediately following this program at 8 p.m. Eastern. She will have the very latest in the search for little Haleigh Cummings.

And right here on ISSUES, we are just getting started. I want to hear your take on the stunning developments in the search for Haleigh Cummings. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Do you think father Ronald Cummings has anger issues? Or is he reacting the way you would in this situation? Here is his intense 911 call when Haleigh was first reported missing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me, listen to me, we got two options.

CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before y`all do, I`m killing him. I don`t care. I`ll spend the rest of my life in prison. I`m telling you, you can put it on the record. I don`t care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. It`s OK, sir. We got them on the way. OK, can you give me any -- what kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing?

CUMMINGS: I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know. I was at work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: Please bring my daughter home. She`s not yours. She`s not property. You know, she`s not something that you just take and say, it`s mine, or whatever. This is my daughter. This is blood. And I would like to have my daughter back, please. Please bring my daughter home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Ron Cummings, the father of missing 5-year- old Haleigh Cummings, pleading for his daughter`s safe return. We are back taking your calls on all the latest shocking developments in the Haleigh Cummings case.

Phone lines lighting up. Tana, West Virginia, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes, Jane. I enjoy your show. My question is that Ron Cummings, his record as far as drugs has been made public. But how about the biological mother? Has anybody ever checked into her drug use or drug arrests?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Deirdre, my understanding is that she admitted -- well, actually, I saw it on camera, too, having used cocaine at one point. And she said she stopped when she found out she was pregnant.

CONNER: Yes, that`s correct. She has admitted that. That did come up in the custody hearing. But ultimately, the judge awarded custody to the father, because he had insurance coverage for the children and, you know, a very -- a variety of other things. But she did admit cocaine use, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Mary in Texas, question or thought?

CALLER: Yes. I`m -- I have a question. My question is this. I know it hasn`t been proven, but if the biological mother is accusing the father of abusing the child, then why would she allow him custody or let him have the child?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that`s a legal question for Drew Findling. Because if the courts grant custody to the dad, then that`s a done deal, right?

FINDLING: Well, it`s kind of late in the game to all of a sudden, given this tragedy, start casting aspersions at the father. I mean, let`s take this and really lay it out there for what it is.

She`s making all these allegations against him. He`s living with the child -- with the children with a 15-year-old girlfriend, and yet, he continues to have custody of the child. So at the same time, that`s saying something about the mom.

Look, it`s a messy situation all the way around. It just is. And I think that`s something that law enforcement is dealing with and probably not sharing so much with us right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pastor Wright, have you had any contact with Ron in the wake of some of these negative stories that are coming out about him? And how is that impacting him? I would assume this guy -- it must be hell for him right now just not having his daughter, and then his home is a crime scene. He`s living outside in the fields, even though I think he got a trailer. I mean, what`s he going through?

WRIGHT: Well, you know, I`ve got to tell you. It`s horrific what he`s going through. And I think what`s hurt him the most is the accusations that he actually hit and abused his daughter.

The other night I was with him right after that broke, and he vehemently denied it to me. As a matter of fact, he described it to me -- he said, "Look, I have not hit my daughter. I don`t do that. I`ve never done that." He is vehemently denying that. That really hurts. Because the focus needs to be on finding his daughter, not evaluating his parenting skills.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.

WRIGHT: I don`t know about you, but I`m not a perfect parent. OK, I`ve made my mistakes. And if my daughter was missing -- I have an 11- year-old daughter, Madison, just turned 11 yesterday -- I would not want her and my parenting skills being evaluated while she`s still missing. So I think he`s just frustrated that it seems that things are shifting from finding Haleigh to evaluating his parenting skills.

FINDLING: You know, Jane, in defense of Ron Cummings, in just a few minutes, we`re going to talk about a case where somebody waited a month to report their child missing. This man got home from work and was hysterical on the phone.

And anybody that`s done these cases before and tried these cases before can hear on the phone he did nothing wrong. And this is really a distraction from looking for the real person that could help us find this child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. At one of the first news conferences, father Ron pleaded for Haleigh`s safe return. But something stood out to some of us. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: Bring her back anonymous. Give her to someone else to bring back. However she gets back, we want her back safe. If you`ve done something with her, tell us where she`s at, if she`s OK. Something. We just -- I want my daughter back. That`s all I want. I want my daughter back. I`m not out for revenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Notice that he uses the word "revenge." Now, the ex says that he has a lot of enemies. He says he has no enemies. I would assume, Darren Kavinoky, that investigators are trying to track down anyone that`s had a run-in with Ron, and that, to me, is the only way this could possibly be relevant.

KAVINOKY: Yes. And as I sit here and listen to it, and, of course, sit in judgment of it, it makes me think, well, wait a second. This guy knows who`s got his child. And those remarks seem to be addressed to that person. Or he`s got some suspicions about it.

But it`s just -- it`s hard to imagine the amount of stress that this family is under, and that he`s under as the custodial father. It`s tough for anyone of us to judge what we would say or do or -- when we`re in those circumstances.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to ask about, Deirdre Conner, the child, Junior, who was 3 at the time, now 4, is reportedly saying a man in black took Haleigh out. What do we know about that?

CONNER: Well, that`s something that has come up in the past. And, of course, like I said, they did interview everybody. Understand the little boy just turned 4. And, you know, it`s hard to say what to make of that. Everybody has made statements to the police about what they believe happened.

I wanted to correct one thing that was said earlier.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve got to hang on for one second. We`re going to have more on this case in just a moment. Everybody sit tight. Another tragic story, an 11-year-old boy -- an 11-year-old boy -- is charged with killing his dad`s pregnant fiance with a shotgun that he was given on Christmas.

Now the debate rages over whether to charge him as an adult. But what about the debate over whether to give an 11-year-old a gun for Christmas?

And an update on Octomom. You won`t believe what she`s doing now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK HOUK, KENZIE HOUK`S FATHER: I don`t know anybody in the whole world that would want to kill a 26-year-old beautiful daughter like mine and take a child. I don`t know who would be crazy enough or nutty enough to want to do something like that. It`s just -- I hope they find out who it is and they take them to -- their life, or whatever they`ve got to do with them. It`s horrifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A father is mourning the brutal slaying of his daughter today, allegedly at the hands of an 11-year-old boy. How is that possible?

Kenzie Houk, a pregnant 26-year-old mother of two, shot to death Friday. Authorities now contend her live-in boyfriend`s 11-year-old son pulled the trigger. The child shot her in the back of the head as she slept. A shocking but all too familiar case in America today. And it begs the question, when will our society stop putting guns into the hands of children?

Back with me, Darren Kavinoky.

Darren, so many issues. But let`s start with the fact that this 11- year-old was taken to an adult jail, where he is too small to even fit in the clothes they gave him. This strikes me as insane, but apparently in Pennsylvania, they can charge anyone over the age of 10 as an adult. Why?

KAVINOKY: Well, prosecutors are really in a quandary over this one. Under Pennsylvania law, as you point out, Jane, that if you`re over 10 years old and you commit a homicide, then they can charge you as an adult, although the facilities where they house people who are pending charges are ill-equipped to handle children. They -- they -- you know, the clothes don`t fit. They can`t mix with other inmates. It really is creating some logistical nightmares for everybody in charge.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it doesn`t make sense to me, because he`s a child.

Take a look at the type of gun allegedly used in this case. Police say the boy got a gun like this for Christmas as a gift from his dad, so he could learn to hunt. Gun laws in Pennsylvania are known to be lax. But should the father, Darren, be facing any criminal penalties or charges, given that he allegedly gave his child the very gun which that child then, in turn, used to kill his own fiance?

KAVINOKY: Yes, it`s a fantastic question, Jane. The short answer is probably not. There`s -- there`s a host of civil liabilities that may attach as far as negligent -- negligent entrustment or negligent supervision, things of that nature.

But there are all sorts of crimes that are based on extreme types of negligence. For example, if I shoot into a building that`s occupied, even though I don`t intend to kill anybody, it`s so negligent that I can be charged with murder. Giving a child a gun, not the same.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me give you this. We have shocking video to show you of how children shoot guns. Now none of these kids, mind you, were involved in any way in any legal cases whatsoever, but you`ve just got to see it. Kids shooting guns. The video is shocking.

And it`s even more shocking when you consider that there was a similar case in Arizona where an 8-year-old boy shot and killed his father and another man. This was also recent. And, again, this kid was playing with guns, learned how to use them to hunt, Darren.

KAVINOKY: Yes. But you know the interesting thing, Jane, is there are some areas of the country where this is just not considered to be unusual at all. You know, you and I...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what I`m saying.

KAVINOKY: ... get to sit back as observers from the -- from the big city, where this would be highly unusual in my neighborhood and I suspect in yours. But in much of the country, kids are -- are taught to hunt and given guns by their folks. It really is a troublesome situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We may have to look at that, parents, and decide maybe that`s not such a great idea.

Darren, thank you so much.

We all know the Octomom, but now the man claiming to be Octodad wants his time in the spotlight. You won`t want to miss this strange development.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police search frantically for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Could a tip from her little brother provide the key? Junior reportedly told her mom that a man dressed in black entered the home and snatched Haleigh.

And Haleigh`s father Ronald snaps as a reporter confronts him with allegations that he hid his daughter and sold drugs. We`ll tell you his reaction.

Plus, we all know octo-mom Nadya Suleman. Well, now octo-dad wants his 15 minutes. The man claiming to be the octuplets donor`s speaks out saying he donated to Suleman three times because he was in love with her.

I`ll have the strange details.

All the latest on octo-mom in just minutes.

But first, more on missing five-year-old Haleigh Cummings: a new war of words has erupted between Haleigh`s two parents as Haleigh`s little brother reportedly says he saw a man in black take Haleigh.

Could little junior`s comments be the key to solving this horrible mystery? I`m back with Reverend Terry Wright, pastor for Haleigh Cummings` family. As well as Deirdre Conner, a reporter with a Florida Times Union, and a very, very patient Arlene from Florida who has been waiting on line a long time. Your question or thought, Arlene?

ARLENE, FROM FLORIDA: I would like to know if anyone took fingerprints of the brick that was holding the back door open. That maybe the 17-year-old went out and put the brick there so that she could get back in. Because who would open a door and steal a child and put a brick on the door?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Deirdre, any thoughts? I`m sure they dusted everything.

DEIRDRE CONNER, TIMES UNION, FL REPORTER: Well, yes and in fact the trailer where this all happened is still a crime scene and no one is allowed back into that trailer. And the family is actually camping out in another part of the neighborhood because they can`t go back home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s talk a little bit, pastor, about the child, junior, who was three at the time that his big sister disappeared two weeks ago, who is now four. He said that he saw -- reportedly said that he saw a man in black take the child away.

What do you know about this because it seems odd that we`re hearing about this now, a couple of weeks in?

REV. TERRY WRIGHT, CUMMINGS` FAMILY PASTOR: Yes. I don`t know a whole of lot about that, Jane. I know that junior is concerned because his sissy is lost. And that`s what`s really registering to him. I`m not sure about his witness of a man in black. I`ve heard that, as you have.

But don`t know much about it. I just know that I was with him a couple of nights ago. He`s just, you know, sissy is lost. When is she coming home?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, and of course the investigators are going to have to determine whether this child is wanting to be helpful and saying something. Children are very suggestible. Or if in fact he did see a man in black.

Now, this comment by Ron stood out to me; it went by very quickly. Listen carefully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, besides junior, do you have another child?

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Haleigh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Besides Haleigh and Junior?

CUMMINGS: I don`t know. Possibly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Pastor, what does it mean? Possibly more children.

WRIGHT: Not sure. I`m not sure what that means.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think one of the reasons that we`re discussing all this is that there seems to be an expanding cast of characters. We heard that the biological mother`s fiance, was interrogated or interviewed by the authorities today.

Now we`re hearing that he possibly has other children. Perhaps there is somebody else that that connects to. That`s why there are so many question marks in this case. And it`s got to be, boy, a handful for investigators, right, Reverend?

WRIGHT: Oh, yes. I imagine. I mean, look. Neither person in this thing lived a perfect life you know, mom or dad and we`ve all made our mistakes. And certainly there`s a lot of things that is confusing this issue right now, Jane. And investigators are having a hard time finding that one clue that leads them to the end of this road.

But I will tell you this. Let me just tell you, the family`s confidence in our local law enforcement is unshakable. Both sides of the family, Crystal as well as Ronald, have complete confidence that our sheriff`s office along with the FBI and FDLA have done all they can -- are doing all they can to bring little Haleigh home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well.

WRIGHT: And so as much as there`s a lot of confusion with issues they are confident that things are being done right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Reverend, I thank you again for joining us. And please know that --

WRIGHT: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- all of our hearts go out to everybody involved in this. It`s got to be hell right now for all sides of the family. And the only reason we`re discussing this is that we are hopeful that somehow we can help solve the mystery and put that child`s face out there. And that somebody will call and we will find this child alive and we pray that that is so.

Thank you, Reverend. And Deirdre Conner, thank you as well.

WRIGHT: Thank you.

CONNER: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Great reporting.

Turning now to another war of words: this one in the Caylee Anthony murder case. The former meter reader who discovered Caylee`s skeletal remains in December has drawn a line in the sand. Roy Kronk is demanding that bounty hunter Leonard Padilla stop making statements in the media that somehow link him to the Anthony family.

He says that Padilla has ruined his reputation. But what if Padilla just keeps talking? The answer in just a moment.

Meantime, expect fireworks in that other civil matter. You know the one the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony says, he`s going to go to court, before allowing his clients to be deposed in the Zenaida Gonzalez case. They are supposed to be questioned in three days.

As for Casey Anthony`s defense team, they are saying it was outrageous and cruel for jailhouse personnel to videotape her reaction to news that a child`s remains had been found.

Does doubling over twice and hyperventilating equal consciousness of guilt? Let`s get some answers to all these questions. Still with me: Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney and Ashleigh Banfield, anchor on the Legal Network, "In Session."

Ashleigh, does Casey`s defense team have a point when they denounce investigators for secretly videotaping Casey`s reaction to the remains being found? Or is this a fair tactic? It`s a criminal prosecution. They would like to show consciousness of guilt.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR OF "IN SESSION": Well, if you`re incarcerated you should know you don`t have any privacy. Not on a telephone and not anywhere in the facility. And I don`t care if you`re getting a nurse`s update. Yes, your actions can speak volumes.

I think there`s a bigger issue here, though, and that is whether if you double over and are upset by the news that remains are found and you`re a mother whose child is missing, it can mean two things. You`re devastated that your child may not be coming home or you`re devastated that somebody found bones that maybe you put there.

I don`t think you can read it either way on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Drew Findling, the only reason why prosecutors are implying that it could be consciousness of guilt is that there were other sightings, there were other moments where they thought remains were found and there is no report of her having any kind of similar reaction.

And remember, this was before the remains were identified as being Caylee`s.

DREW FINDLING, ATLANTA CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, two-fold. One, we`re talking skeletal remains found very, very close to the house, number one.

Number two, regarding the issue of privacy, let`s make this clear. We`re not talking about just walking and talking and having casual conversation. We`re talking about something surreptitiously set up by law enforcement to induce the criminally accuse and not being investigated but indicted for murder to get a physical reaction, which is the equivalent of a statement.

I guarantee you if these lawyers know what they`re doing, they are coming guns slinging into court; terrible move by the prosecution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you really think so?

FINDLING: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because I would think as a juror sitting there watching her doubling over and hyperventilating at that moment, I would say, "Hey, that would be very powerful indicator that perhaps she is reacting because she knows something that other people don`t know."

FINDLING: Well, it may be, but you know what, you have to come with every emotion that you can. And when you see sneaky work like this, because you have to remember, at this stage in the game with indictment, the work of law enforcement is an extension of the prosecution. They`re the same.

And when you see a setup job like this, it`s just bad lawyering, bad prosecution, bad investigation. And you`ve got to stick it up their throat.

BANFIELD: You know what, as far as conscience and guilt goes, I`m not as concerned about this behavior and this videotape that may or may not make it into court. I think what could really fry this young woman is false statements. Because that`s the kind of thing if proven, judges can actually instruct juries that they can consider false statements part of consciousness of guilt on behalf of the defendant.

That is where Casey could be in a lot of trouble.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we`ve got to get to this next issue. Roy Kronk says bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, is trashing him in the media. Listen to what Padilla told Nancy Grace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, "THE NANCY GRACE SHOW" HOST: So what`s your theory? And how is Kronk somehow part of a conspiracy? Go ahead and tell me.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, we know that the defense is the one that`s benefiting by the confusion right now as to the finding of the body and how it was found. How did somebody get word to Kronk to get out there? I think he was the end of a daisy chain that started with Casey and two or three people in the middle there. And I mean, he says he saw something white out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Drew, Kronk says stop that or you`re going to be in trouble. And Leonard Padilla`s response is if you want a legal fight, saddle up. Is this just another side show or is this possibly a big deal?

FINDLING: Well, on the one hand, it`s another side show. But I have to say when you go through -- when you go online like all the viewers can do and you read the discovery in this case, you know, it wasn`t a very good move to come out and say -- and we`ve talked about in this show, immediately the meter reader was not a suspect.

Because when you read the investigative summary, that meter reader stuff is bizarre. It is crazy. It`s a lot more detailed than all of us thought. Now, does that make him part of the case? Probably not.

But I think it was discounted way too early. And unfortunately, it opens the doors for people that are opportunists to make accusations, to get a little publicity and get themselves on TV.

BANFIELD: But when it comes to defamation though, truth is the ultimate defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just want to say that the police say Roy Kronk is a hero. He used his gut and he found the remains and we`re going to have to go with what the police say.

Ashleigh and Drew, thank you so much.

Nancy Grace will have the very latest on the Caylee Anthony murder case. She is up next at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

And here on "ISSUES," I will have an update on octo-mom, Nadya Suleman. The man claiming to be the octuplet`s donor wants he`s side in the limelight. Wait until you hear all that crazy developments that have just happened. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297 to sound off on octo-mom, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re familiar with the octo-mom, but up next, you will get a glimpse at the octo-dad, or at least the guy claiming to be the octuplet donor.

But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.

A break in the Chandra Levy murder mystery: you may remember, this case was a national obsession back in 2001. Levy was killed in May of that year and many pointed the finger at her secret lover, then Congressman Gary Condit. Police are now reported close to arresting a suspect in this murder.

No official word has been released, but cops are expected to arrest and charge Ingmar Guandique. Guandique, an illegal immigrant, is already behind bars are for attacking two female joggers with a knife close to where Levy`s remains were found.

Though never charged, Gary Condit political career was ruined by the Levy murder but he now hopes to clear his name entirely by publishing a book telling his side of the story.

That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."

More twists and turns tonight in the never-ending octo-mom outrage drama. A man who says he donated sperm to Nadya Suleman on three different occasions has come forward. Now Denis Beaudoin tells ABC`s "Good Morning America" that he wants a paternity test.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, ABC ANCHOR: How far do you want to take it?

DENIS BEAUDOIN, CLAIMS TO BE SULEMAN`S SPERM DONOR: I would like a DNA test. And like whether or not it is or it isn`t, I still extend my hand in help.

CUOMO: You`ll help even if they`re not your kids?

BEAUDOIN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beaudoin says he made those sperm donations at home. Get this. Are you sitting down? Suleman kept the sperm sample warm by placing the cup between her breasts.

Just when you thought this story couldn`t get stranger, it goes to a whole new level of total weirdness.

I`m taking your calls, of course. But first let`s get to my fantastic panel: Debbie Glasser, clinical psychologist; Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Pete Demetriou, legendary reporter from L.A. KFWB News 980 and A.J. Hammer, the host of HLN`s "Showbiz Tonight."

Thank you so much for joining us, A.J. Always love to have you.

You`ve been tracking this case. Why would this man who already has two of his own kids want to get involved in this chaotic drama and put his face out there?

A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": First off Jane and most importantly I think I`d like to say I`m happy about this because now we can at least say octo-dad and not have to say octo-mom all the time. We have something new to talk about.

First, let me give you a cynical A.J. Have you ever heard the name Denis Beaudoin before? No, probably not. Here we are talking about him. This is what happens when cases like this come along and you remember what happened with Anna Nicole Smith. Everybody and their brother and father came out saying, "I`m the daddy." Prince Von Anhalt, Zsa Zsa Gabor`s husband even coming out and saying he was the dad.

So that could be a little of what`s going on here maybe coming after the 15 minutes. However, that said, we don`t really know what this guy`s motives are. He has said that he has a big custody battle he`s had to endure over his son and he does not want the same sort of drama to befall these octuplets. Well, guess what, I think a little too late on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. That ship has sailed. In fact, we have a new bizarre development: a face-to-face confrontation between octo-mom and octo-granny courtesy of Radar Online. Take a gander at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA SULEMAN, NADYA SULEMAN`S MOTHER: You should have considered your other six children.

NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLET`S MOM: Okay, but I still was going to use -- I was not going to destroy the embryos. Period. Done, done, done. It`s already done. You can`t go back and ring a bell. You can`t go back and ring a bell. You can`t go back and alter the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think she meant you can`t go back and unring a bell. But Pete Demetrious, that aside, remember when we heard that octo- mom said she was not going to do a reality show, that looks kind of like a reality show right there.

PETE DEMETRIOU, REPORTER L.A. KFWB NEWS 980: Well, it could a reality show, Jane, to say the least. But I think there are a couple of other interesting issues regarding what`s going on with Beaudoin and everyone on this thing.

The question about paternity, we`ve got legal people on the panel; I`d like them to go into it. But I talked with three lawyers today and they frankly said unless there was some indication that the sperm donation was made under false pretenses or some other irregularity there, he actually has no right to request any kind of a DNA test or anything at all.

Although there is a possibility, possibility given a court`s trend toward the parents of biological -- well, if you want to call it donor`s rights -- that if there was something irregular with the way the donation was made --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that there is a growing trend toward parental rights of the sperm donor. Paul Callan couldn`t we envision, if in fact, his DNA tests out and he is the biological father of one or all of these 14, couldn`t we see a legal battle if he, in fact, wants to get involved and she doesn`t want him involved?

PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s an interesting fact pattern here. And I think what you would see is that he would not have the right to force himself into the picture. But the reverse might be true.

Let`s say the children -- it certainly looks this way -- are going to have problems being supported because the mother is poverty-stricken. Couldn`t the state sue him for child support?

You know, there`s been a lot of speculation in legal circles that sperm donors had better be careful because if a child is conceived and cannot be supported, why should the state support the child? So I think if these children have economic problems, maybe there could be a lawsuit against him if he`s the biological father. But, of course, we don`t even know if that`s true.

VELEZ-MICHELL: Well, A.J. Hammer, when cases like this evolve and you and I have seen it, people come out of the woodwork.

HAMMER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And given that there are 14 kids and medically it`s very possible that they have several fathers. There`s no -- even though she says it`s one person -- she`s been known to be inconsistent about other facts. Is it possible that we`re going to see other men coming forward and saying, "Hey, I`m the dad?"

HAMMER: I think it`s a pretty sure bet at this point. I don`t know if we will see Prince Von Anhalt come out in this particular case. But the interesting thing about Denis Beaudoin, he`s coming out and saying, "Hey, I do want to take ownership of the fact that I`m probably the father and I do want to help out."

Now Nadya Suleman has not responded to any offers of help from her or the several other people and organizations that have made offers to help. The wackiness here, Jane, pretty consistent with what we`ve seen so far, wouldn`t you say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is. It`s like a reality show in the works. We`re going to talk to our psychologist about that in just a moment.

Everyone stick around. Don`t forget. You can catch A.J. Hammer on "Showbiz Tonight" 11:00 p.m. Eastern. I will be joining him for the very latest on the octo-mom story.

Here on "ISSUES" we`ll have more on the octo-mom. She may be a tad odd, but so are the men surrounding her. I will tell you why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED SULEMAN, NADYA SULEMAN`S FATHER: I mean, I understand it`s your job, you need to do it, but give us a little break. Too much is not good. There`s a limit to everything. They`re fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The man who claims to be Nadya Suleman`s sperm donor is now among those who say she wasn`t always so truthful. Take a listen to what he told ABC`s Chris Cuomo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Nadya says, "It`s not him." Is that good enough for you? Is that closure?

BEAUDOIN: No. I can`t take everything she says for granted. I mean, when initially she told me the whole reason why for me donating sperm in the first place is to get pregnant because she was not going to be able to have kids. And it turned into this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This, being 14 kids. She has been caught in numerous inconsistencies. She says she wasn`t on welfare, but she`s getting food stamps and disability payments for her brood.

Let me ask psychologist Debbie Glasser how is her lack of candor going to affect these kids growing up?

DEBBIE GLASSER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t know Nadya Suleman and I don`t know what she`s being candid about or what she isn`t being candid about. Truthfully, this is going to be something that needs to be addressed by the health care professionals that are already involved in this family`s life.

They need to take a look at this mom. They need to take a look at her support network. They need to take a look at the circumstances in her home, because we`re talking about real life.

It is playing out a little bit like a reality show, like a bad one. But this is real life and these are real babies, real children who need and deserve loving, stable, consistent caregivers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pete Demetrious, we only have a little bit of time, but Nadya has said that this other guy who has just come forward is not the real father. And on some of the birth certificates of four of the six children she had before she had the octuplets she listed a David Solomon, but they had different birth dates for this so-called father. Is David Solomon a real person or a fictional person?

DEMETRIOU: Doesn`t matter whether he`s real or fictional, because the mother is not obligated under law to provide any real data on the parent or the father. Not only that, in the case of a sperm donor, she probably wouldn`t know anyway. So she could name David Solomon, John Doe or Chewbacca, for all that we know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure Chewbacca is going to be coming up soon and saying that he donated the sperm.

Let`s talk about the doctor, A.J. Should this doctor face more scrutiny? I know he`s being investigated currently.

HAMMER: Everybody is taking a look at the doctor. And somebody even called in to "Showbiz Tonight" to suggest that this guy should take the financial responsibility for the kids. I think a lot of people are going to be taking a look at what can go on here legally, what can go on ethically or should go on ethically. So I`m surprised we haven`t heard more from the doctor about this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. There are so many ramifications; moral, ethical, environmental, let`s not forget that.

Thank you everyone. Hope you come back again soon.

I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. You`re watching "ISSUES."

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/23/ijvm.01.html

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NANCY GRACE

Investigation Continues into Disappearance of 5-Year-Old Haleigh

Aired February 24, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida, a 5-year- old little girl tucked into bed. Five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Bombshell tonight. While members of little Haleigh`s immediate and extended family have taken multiple polygraphs and stated they passed, lead investigators say no one -- repeat, no one -- has been cleared.

Also, across the country, Grand Junction, Colorado, is there a credible sighting of 5-year-old Haleigh there in a crowded mall? As police sift through over 2,000 tips, can Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother ID the kidnapper? The boy ostensibly in the room, sleeping with his sister when she`s snatched, the little boy describing a grown man taking Haleigh in the middle of the night dressed in entirely in black.

After FBI and police initially zero in on a local sex offender and girlfriend Misty Croslin`s cousin, police now clearing both of them. And what about that mystery vehicle that was seized for evidence? Investigators still refusing to reveal the make, model or ownership. As local police refuse to scale back the search, tonight, where is 5-year-old Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators continue to comb for clues in the case of missing 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, who was kidnapped from her own bed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I didn`t notice about Haleigh then until I seen the back door open, and then I go in the room and she`s gone! And that`s all I know!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the reward increases to $25,000 today, authorities say they are not planning on scaling back their investigation into what happened to little Haleigh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators are still following up on leads. They`re still following through. Nothing has been cut back as a result of what`s gone on here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are interviewing anyone who had a connection to the child, giving polygraphs and even re-questioning family members when needed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll probably do more interviews with the family simply because, as new information comes up, they re-interview to follow up on information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Questions still remain about what exactly Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother says he saw the night Haleigh was taken. According to the boy`s mother, the boy saw a man dressed all in black take his sister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All he said was, I want to find my sissy, and he said something about somebody in black took her. He said that he was all dressed in black. But I didn`t question him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement experts have interviewed the boy but won`t elaborate on what he told them.

RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I`m here to plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news tonight on another beautiful child, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate to skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide, a utility meter reader stumbling on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping the child`s mouth, finishing off by placing a heart-shaped sticker over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Tonight, grandparents George and Cindy Anthony refusing to testify under oath in just 48 hours. Brother Lee Anthony says he will answer questions but that he knows nothing about the so-called nanny, never even met her. And tonight, is tot mom`s defense attorney back under investigation by the Florida bar?

But with her family facing legal questioning, it`s apparently not affecting tot mom`s appetite. She`s loading up on treats for herself -- chocolates, expensive bottled water, headsets, beauty products, all for her use in her private jail cell. And hey, she can afford it! Strangers from all across the country sending money to tot mom`s bank account at the jail, including one California man who sends in five -- one, two three, four, five -- deposits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: ... to push me to smile at her and hug her. I miss that kiss on the cheek, that special hug.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony are set to be deposed this week as part of a defamation lawsuit filed against the tot mom by the alleged baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez. But the attorney for the Anthonys does not want them to give a sworn depositions and is trying to get a delay. Citing them as being emotionally fragile, attorney Brad Conway says George and Cindy need more time to recover before answering any questions.

LEE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S UNCLE: This family is incomplete. I`m incomplete!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, controversy is swirling over someone trying to sell a doll that looks similar to tot mom Casey Anthony. The doll, which was put on eBay and later taken down, is seen wearing an American flag as its clothing. Tot mom Casey Anthony wore the same outfit to the no-clothes party last May.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I forgive whoever has her, and I just want her to come home. I just -- I just want my baby back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a 14-year-old California girl on her way to school around 7:00 AM in the morning vanishing into thin air, last seen just one block from her school. A model student, she loves to read, excited about purchasing a little lamb for FFA, Future Farmers of America. She planned to name the little lamb Nannette (ph). Tonight, where is this little girl, 14-year-old Amber Dubois (ph)?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I go to bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here! And she`s not!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are looking through hundreds of leads in the desperate search for 14-year-old Amber Dubois. Amber was last seen heading to school the day before Valentine`s Day and hasn`t been seen since. Now a private investigator working on the case says another woman that looks similar to Amber told him that on the same day Amber went missing, a group of men tried to kidnap her near the same high school that Amber herself attends. While the girl told the PI that she was able to get away, Amber`s family says Amber would never leave on her own and they will continue to search for clues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The search for a 5-year-old girl, Haleigh Cummings, in Florida. Has there been a sighting of Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the search for missing 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings continues, authorities say they will not scale back their investigation as to what happened to the child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are five detectives that are assigned to the case. This is their case. And I feel that those five will probably stay assigned to this case because it is important. Until we find Haleigh, it is important.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haleigh was last seen February 10th, when she was abducted from her own bed in the middle of the night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying to do everything to find her. You know, I`m answering any questions I have to because I know I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reward has now increased to $25,000, with Haleigh`s family praying the reward could lead to the child`s safe return.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s all I have is prayer and faith and hope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A team of experts met with Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother after the boy`s mother says her son told her that a man dressed all in black took his "sissy."

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: And he was, like, Somebody come in, they was all dressed in black, and took my sissy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t feel like anybody should have said that. If you are that person and you feel like he could identify you, what would be your next move then, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police officials will not comment on what information the boy provided them.

CUMMINGS: If you`re watching, baby, I love you. That`s all I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight to T.J. Hart, news director with WSKY 97.3. Mr. Hart, all the family is telling me they have all taken and passed polygraphs, some of them multiple polygraphs. So why is it, T.J., that police, the lead investigator, says that nobody has been cleared?

T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3: That`s because the polygraph examinations are also sent elsewhere, too, and the results of those are never given, to my understanding, to the person who takes them. No one has been informed directly that they have passed or not passed. I don`t know why anyone would say that unless someone said, you know, We`re through here and it looks good...

GRACE: To John Lucich...

HART: ... and they take that for something else.

GRACE: OK, great. To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies." John, typically, when you administer a polygraph, the person who`s administering can tell right then whether you passed it or flunked it.

JOHN LUCICH, FORMER INVESTIGATOR: Right. But it`s up to them whether they want to reveal that, and it`s up to the policy of the department whether they want to reveal that. Somebody can actually pass a polygraph in some instances and still be lying. I think that they have, based on what -- the results that they have right now, they don`t want to release that information. But often enough, when somebody walks out from taking a polygraph, if they don`t get arrested, they have this feeling that they passed it.

GRACE: Straight to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by outside the crime scene. What are you hearing from the family?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we spoke to both sides of the family today, Nancy, and right now, we`re sitting here with the paternal grandmother of Haleigh Cummings. And basically, investigators really don`t have much more information than they had yesterday. They are not scaling back the search at all, whatsoever. People -- there`s been rumors that they were scaling back the search because they haven`t been doing press conferences, but that`s mainly because they don`t have main areas to search right now.

They are following up on at least 2,000 leads, we heard today from the lead investigator on the case, John Merchant (ph). And also, they are still interviewing this family.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We are there in Satsuma, Florida, bringing you the very latest -- police refusing to scale back the search for little Haleigh.

Has there been a sighting of her clear across the country? Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHEFFIELD: When I got in for my visitation, first thing he said to me was, Mommy, I want to find my sissy. And I didn`t question him about none of it. And he was, like, Somebody come in, they was all dressed in black, and took my sissy.

GRACE: Did he say anything else identifying the man, anything at all, any characteristics?

SHEFFIELD: No. He just said that they was dressed in black, or he was dressed in black, whoever it was.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Ms. Sheffield, have you taken a lie detector test?

SHEFFIELD: I sure have.

GRACE: And did you pass it?

SHEFFIELD: As far as I know. The man that did it told me he thinks I did, but they had to send it off to Washington to the...

GRACE: And did you do it voluntarily? Did you protest, or did you go along?

SHEFFIELD: Yes, I did.

GRACE: Everyone, Crystal Sheffield announcing tonight she has taken and passed a lie detector test.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, thank you for being with us. I recall distinctly when your child, Polly Klaas, went missing, you approached police to say, Polygraph me. Do it right now. Now, tell me something, Marc. Why were you so adamant that you be polygraphed immediately?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there were a couple of reasons. Number one, I wanted to eliminate myself as a suspect so law enforcement could then focus their full resource on whatever had happened to Polly. But more than that, we wanted to make sure that the focus stayed exactly on where is Polly and not tangential questions about the family, et cetera, et cetera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigators are still following up on leads. They`re still following through. Nothing has been cut back as a result of what`s gone on here. I mean, they`re just -- they`re working as hard as they have been.

We never know when the one`ll come in that`ll solve the case. You just don`t know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother identified the man he saw who took Haleigh who came into the home that night.

SHEFFIELD: He said, Mommy, I want to find my sissy, and some man in black come in and took her.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This is a huge clue! That means somebody planned this. That means they were probably scouting out this trailer park, and maybe, just maybe, somebody saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is significant psychological trauma from the separation anxiety of losing a sibling, and that can be so severe, they can clutter (ph) their fears and nightmares with reality sometimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child has been interviewed by a team of people who deal specifically with children in situations similar to this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crystal Sheffield is not mincing any words anymore for the person who has her baby.

SHEFFIELD: I hope you`re watching this every day and see how much it hurts our family. And I hope that (INAUDIBLE) She`s just a baby! It`s tore my heart out of my chest, and I hope (INAUDIBLE) same to you. Haleigh, if you`re watching, I love you! And I miss you. And we`re going get you home safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight to Matt Zarrell, who`s been on the story from the very beginning. Matt, what can you tell me about this alleged sighting of little Haleigh?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, on Monday, the Grand Rapids, Colorado, mall, the Mesa mall, that a number of employees that reported that they had seen Haleigh in this mall. Now, investigators went out to the mall. They took photos. They took information. They even took video. And in addition, they then went to the local hotels to search for the woman who was supposed to be with this girl. Then what happened is they spoke to the Putnam County`s sheriff`s office. They determined through evidence and what they learned that it was not Haleigh.

GRACE: A sighting that raised everyone`s hopes clear across the country in Colorado. The problem is it was a false sighting. That does not mean that authorities want you to stop calling in tips. Over 2,000 tips police are sifting through as they refuse to scale back the search, this as we learn the lead investigator says even though the entire family and extended family and friends have taken polygraphs, some of them more than once, no one has been cleared.

Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, when you took the polygraph when your daughter went missing, how many questions were you asked?

KLAAS: Well, actually, they told me the questions that they were going to ask me in advance. And if I remember correctly, they probably only asked me somewhere between about 10 and 20 questions. And at the conclusion of the polygraph -- and mind you, this was done by a very experienced FBI polygrapher. At the conclusion of the exam, one of the agents came in and said, Well, that went very well. And that basically is as close that anybody came to telling me that I had passed the exam.

GRACE: Joining me right now, a special guest, Teresa Neves. This is the paternal grandmother of little Haleigh. Ms. Neves, thank you for being with us. Ms. Neves, I know that the lead investigator, John Merchant, came by to speak with you today and debrief you. What, if anything, did you learn?

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I learned that just because they`re not having a press conference does not mean that they`re not working some leads. They do have a few good leads right now that they`re working on. Basically, they`re not going to give us a whole lot of information, but he did say that they have some things that they are working on, so...

GRACE: Ms. Neves, why is the home still cordoned off, making the family live in tents and donated campers?

NEVES: Well, we do not have to live in a tent. My son will not leave here, and therefore, we stay here in the tent to be with him. The people who donated the RV were wonderful to give him a place where he can be alone with his son and actually be warm and almost comfortable. So that was great. What was your other question, Nancy?

GRACE: I was just wondering why, Ms. Neves, they still...

NEVES: Why they still have it.

GRACE: Yes.

NEVES: OK. That is because, in the event that they get a lead or a tip from somewhere -- you know, just for instance, you know, somebody says that there was a hole in the floor where somebody could have came through - - they have that still where they can go back and collect evidence, where if they release that home, then all that evidence is pretty much useless.

GRACE: You know what? You`re absolutely right about that, Ms. Neves. And your son says that right now, he can`t go back into the home anyway. Why?

NEVES: Because Haleigh`s not there. I mean, Haleigh is one of them children who fills up a home with smiles and laughter, and you just couldn`t be there without her!

GRACE: Everyone, the reward is now up to $25,000. Please take a look at this little girl, Haleigh. Phone number 888-277-TIPS -- 8477.

Out to the lines. Amy in Illinois. Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. and I want to thank you for -- God bless you for, you know, trying to help all these lost children. And I just -- I want to tell the family to, you know, stay focused on Haleigh, and any differences they have, put it aside. But I was wondering, the little boy, you know, the man dressed in black...

GRACE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know if they have -- if this information is all out, but I was curious as to -- if the little boy and his sister were in the same bed, and also, if this person with the black mask had his face hidden or anything, you know, like...

GRACE: Out to Teresa Neves. Let`s answer Amy`s question. Ms. Neves, was the little brother in the bed with Haleigh?

NEVES: No, ma`am. Haleigh`s bed is a toddler bed, and it is probably, I would say, somewhere around three feet from the bed where Misty and Junior were sleeping.

GRACE: And the guy...

NEVES: And they`re not in the same bed.

GRACE: The guy that he believes he saw, was his face covered?

NEVES: I -- I cannot -- that -- Nancy, that`s things that we (INAUDIBLE) with the detectives. I don`t feel like any of that information ever should have been released because I feel like you put my grandson in danger when you say, you know, that he can identify somebody or that he`s giving clues on somebody.

GRACE: And also, the family is not to be questioning the little boy, in case this turns up to be evidence at a future trial.

Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the heartfelt signs and drawings to the stuffed animals, the community`s love for Haleigh Cummings comes in many forms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The more comfort you can give them and let them talk to you and pray with them, I think it helps them. Gives them hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have granddaughters and it just kind of hit a nerve. And I needed to come up here and do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Allison in Florida. Hi, Allison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good talking with you.

GRACE: Likewise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When all the perv -- the pedophiles in the area -- when the sheriff went to each one of their homes, did -- why don`t they take a K-9 unit or a cadaver dog with them?

GRACE: Well, I don`t know that they did not. To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by there at the crime scene. Marlaina, have they used bloodhounds in the area?

SCHIAVO: Yes, they have, Nancy. Right from the beginning, they took articles of clothing of 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings and they had hounds all in the area. As a matter of fact, we heard from the maternal side today that a friend of Crystal also had a hound out here, as well.

GRACE: To Shelley in Kansas. Hi, Shelley.

GRACE: Hi, Nancy. It is such a pleasure to speak with you. You are just a joy.

GRACE: Likewise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, the grandmother in her he last segment just clarified that Junior was sleeping with the baby- sitter/girlfriend. My question is, if he saw someone, why didn`t the girlfriend see anyone?

GRACE: Apparently, the girlfriend did not wake up. Is that correct, Ms. Neves?

NEVES: That`s correct.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More developments today in the case of 2-year- old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. The attorney for George and Cindy Anthony is trying to stop the grandparents from having to give sworn depositions this week in the defamation lawsuit filed by Zenaida Gonzalez.

Attorney Brad Conway says the grandparents are fragile emotionally and need time to clear their heads before answering any questions about the tot mom`s case.

CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDMOTHER: Oh, man. Hearing her call out my name and telling me how much she loves me.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDFATHER: To hear her call me Joe-Joe. Sure, I was grandpa, but I was Joe-Joe to her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, outrage. Someone was trying to auction off a doll that bears a striking resemblance to tot mom Casey Anthony. The doll which was dressed in an American flag was initially placed on eBay on Sunday but later taken down by the seller.

G. ANTHONY: I miss my daughter Casey. Do not form any judgments because I`ll tell you, you don`t want to be in any of our family`s shoes no matter what it is. Casey deserves prayer. She deserves understanding. She deserves love. She deserves letters. Take the time to write a letter to her.

You could just say hi, Casey, I`m thinking about you today. You can do it for me, I would love it. If you could do it for my son, for Cindy. You can do it for Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the Anthony family refusing to answer questions under oath set down in just 48 hours.

To Kathi Belich with WFTV, what is their reason for not wanting to answer questions under oath?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, their attorney says that it`s just aimed at annoying, embarrassing them, causing further anguish that they are both emotionally fragile. Their attorney mentioned how everyone knows that George, apparently, tried to kill himself last month and that Cindy is just as emotionally fragile at this point. Both are seeking counseling to get them through this.

He also talks about concerns over whether private information might go public. There is some sort of dispute over whether this proceeding is public. It`s Zenaida Gonzalez`s attorney`s belief that it is a public proceeding and that`s another reason why they`re trying to prevent this at this point.

GRACE: With me, Keith Mitnik, co-counsel for Zenaida Fernandez- Gonzalez, the woman that the tot mom named as the kidnapper of little Caylee. She has been cleared. Mr. Mitnik, what do you make of the Anthonys` claims?

KEITH MITNIK, CO-COUNSEL FOR ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ: The claim that she can`t come suddenly to a deposition is very frustrating. We`ve had this case set. This deposition set for over a -- for a month and it was cleared through her lawyers. They said fine, we`ll bring her. You don`t even need to subpoena her.

Now suddenly at the 11th hour, they can`t come. You can`t just stand in the way of the truth. This is a serious matter. It`s not a game that`s played to say I feel like playing today and the next day I don`t.

GRACE: What are the private matters they fear will become public, Mr. Mitnik?

MITNIK: Yes.

GRACE: What are the private matters they fear you will make public, Mr. Mitnik?

MITNIK: I have no interest in making anything public. I have an interest in doing what`s right for my client in these proceedings. I have no clue of what it is they`re so scared of, but I know it`s not my problem nor my client`s problem.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, any idea which way the judge is leaning right now? Is he going to make these depositions go forward?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, we could have an emergency meeting tomorrow where the judge would have to decide on that. As to what the judge will think, you know, it`s hard to say in this case. Before, he`s delayed hearings like this when they involved Casey Anthony. Whether he would be willing to delay them when they involved her parents, we might have to wait until tomorrow to see that.

GRACE: To Kathi Belich. Kathi, what about brother, Lee? Is he agreeing to go forward with the questioning under oath?

BELICH: As far as we know, he does not plan to fight the depositions. He`s scheduled for Friday morning at 9:00.

GRACE: To the lawyers, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, Alex Sanchez out of New York.

Ray Giudice, do they have a leg to stand on fighting the depositions?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I thought their answer for protective motion was very weak. It attached no medical evidence indicating that Cindy and George were not medically competent to testify.

I do think that there might be some restrictions on the deposition and that the deposition may be private, not allowing the public and the media and sealed until used by court.

GRACE: And Alex Sanchez, there are rules that apply to depositions. You can argue against a question if it`s beyond the scope.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. All of these matters do have certain rules and regulations and if there`s some question that is improper and it`s placed to the parties, the person can object, and they can actually get a judge to intervene at that point to make a ruling whether or not the questioning should go on.

GRACE: So the Anthonys` arguments about not testifying under oath are getting weaker and weaker under the law.

Joining me right now, Andy Kahn, director of the Houston Mayor`s Crime Victim`s Office. He monitors murderabilia sites all across the world.

Andy, what do you make of this nutjob that is still selling Caylee Sunshine dolls, still trying to make money off Caylee bracelets, t-shirts and now we hear that there is a doll like tot mom draped in the flag for sale.

When will it end, Andy?

ANDY KAHN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S VICTIM`S CRIME OFFICE, MONITORS MURDERABILIA SALES: It`s not going to end. This is just the beginning of the merchandising and marketing of both Caylee Anthony and Casey Anthony.

And you remember the nutjob that was on your show and the day after, they -- all of a sudden they said we`re no longer going to be selling the Caylee doll. Well, guess what? On February 28th orders will be shipped so that was a bold-faced lie, and as far as the other sellers of the voodoo dolls, this doll that was draped in the flag of the United States of America, from my perspective, they`re nothing but a bunch of parasitic vermin, and they`re turning murderers into godlike immortal figures simply to make a buck off of.

GRACE: You know, Andy, people ask me all the time how can it be stopped? We did have the Son of Sam laws until the U.S. Supreme Court in its wisdom reversed them. What about in Florida? But really, this cross estate boundaries. This isn`t just Florida. This is on the Internet.

KAHN: It`s on the Internet and the only way to do it is through public outrage. Unfortunately, you cannot legislate manufactured items or bad taste and until she`s convicted, the bottom line is, quite frankly, she can do whatever she wants and people can make money off of her.

It`s just insidious and despicable that a tragic death of a 2-year-old girl is going to bring out some of the worst entrepreneurialship in American history.

GRACE: Joining me right now Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California.

Leonard, brother Lee Anthony is not refusing to testify under oath. Why is he going forward while the parents are saying they can`t do a depo?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED LOOK FOR CAYLEE & SPENT TIME WITH CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t -- I don`t think Lee ever heard of Zenaida prior to possibly July the 15th or the 16th. He might have heard about Zenaida on July the 3rd, but I don`t think so. I think it was July the 15th or the 13th -- 15th through 16th and I don`t think he`s got any knowledge past that.

GRACE: To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist out of New York. Lauren, it would not have been difficult for the Anthonys to go to a doctor, to explain what they were going through and get a psychological evaluation, psychiatrist, psychologist to state they were in no shape to testify, but they didn`t do that.

Raymond Giudice has pointed that out you`ve got to have a doctor`s note if you`re going to claim some type of an illness.

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s true, but the extent of the illness may be hard to document. I mean, yes, they`re under emotional distress. Yes, this whole thing is upsetting but that doesn`t mean that they can`t be part of the solution and seeing justice through.

I`m not sure what kind of doctor would excuse them from being able to show up at a deposition. If anything, they should be happy to show up for a deposition to get this thing going down the right path of seeking justice and the right answer.

GRACE: What do you make of it, Marc Klaas?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Oh, I completely agree. I think the Anthonys have to -- have to start moving forward on this thing. Poor Zenaida is just another one of Casey`s victims just like everybody else that is involved in this case and the quicker they can adjudicate her situation and get her out of the picture, the quicker they can move forward and everybody can finally seek final justice in this case.

GRACE: And Ray and Alex -- first to you, Ray, don`t they see how devastating this will be to the tot mom`s case when they all three say we never heard of Zenaida Gonzalez? She never came to the house to pick up the baby.

GIUDICE: Right, it may go to bolster the plaintiff`s claim that this was an intentional act by Casey Anthony to select Miss Gonzalez as the quote, unquote, "kidnapper" if they`ve never heard of her before.

GRACE: Alex?

SANCHEZ: You know, I`m just wondering, what is the urgency to go forward with these hearings tomorrow or later on this week? I think the judge should grant them -- in this had case.

GRACE: It`s been seven or eight months now.

SANCHEZ: I know, but this -- it`s absolutely indisputable that this family has gone through absolute hell. They should adjourn it.

GRACE: OK, so -- you know what?

SANCHEZ: Give the family time to recover. There`s no emergency here.

GRACE: On that I agree with you. They have been through hell.

Quick break. We are taking your calls. I want to remind you about the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Foundation, fighting lung cancer. Lung cancer claiming more lives than breast, colon, prostate, melanoma and kidney combined.

Miss Gaeta, beloved wife, mom of five, a teacher lost her battle and her family is fighting back. For info or to donate go to ForJoan.org.

And tonight, a special happy birthday to a Georgia friend of the show, Mike Lynch, the pastor to over 2,000 at North Star Church.

Happy birthday, Mike.

And tonight, please continue to pray for veteran New York defense attorney Richard Herman in the fight of a lifetime battling leukemia.

Richard, please stay strong. We are thinking of you now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A private investigator working on the case of missing teenager Amber Dubois says another woman was attacked that same day near Amber`s school. Private investigator Bill Garcia says the woman looks a lot like Amber and told him that a group of men got out of the van and tried to force her inside the vehicle.

She told Garcia she was able to get away from the men who tried to take her near the Escondido High School where Amber is a student. Authorities say Amber`s cell phone was turned on briefly the day after she disappeared, but hasn`t been turned on since.

Police are not ruling anything out as Amber`s family waits and hopes saying their child would never try to leave on her own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This is a 14-year-old little girl. She`s a model student, loved to read, not all into Facebook and MySpace and that whole thing. In fact, she was thrilled to be going to school and swapped Valentine`s and was very involved in FFA, Future Farmers of America.

In fact, she wrote a big long letter to her mother why she should get to buy a lamb, a little lamb, as part of a FFA project, a lamb she planned to name Nannette. This is a sweet, precious girl who has never run away.

To Phil Farrar, news anchor and reporter with KOGO, what can you tell me, Phil?

PHIL FARRAR, NEWS ANCHOR/REPORTER, KOGO RADIO: Well, Nancy, she was last seen on Friday the 13th and she was on her way to school and her mother said she was looking forward to that day, as you said. That was the day before Valentine`s Day, but it was also Friday the 13th and she was supposed to exchange these cards and gifts and this, we believe, was shortly after 7:00 in the morning.

GRACE: To Bill Garcia, a California licensed private investigator, he is helping the family in their search. Bill, what can you tell me about an attempted kidnap of a similar-looking person in the same area?

BILL GARCIA, CALIFORNIA LICENSES P.I., HELPING FAMILY IN SEARCH FOR MISSING TEEN, AMBER DUBOIS: I`ll have to make a slight correction. It actually occurred on February 2nd, and it was about 3:30 in the afternoon. This woman so much looks so similar to Amber that I asked if I could take photos of her, and she does. She looks like a high school girl of similar height and build.

GRACE: Now are you telling me the similar transaction occurred on February 2nd?

GARCIA: The similar abduction occurred on February 2nd, yes, at about 3:30 in the afternoon.

GRACE: Correct, I was.

GARCIA: Which was right about the end of school.

GRACE: Yes, I wasn`t sure what you thought you were clearing up, but in any event, what have you learned about the disappearance of little Amber?

GARCIA: Well, we`ve learned that she`s not a runaway. Her family does not believe she`s a runaway. When we got involved in this case we did not feel she was a runaway. Correction, the Escondido police have stopped physical searches. You can`t do that. You have to keep searching for these children until they`re found and that`s -- that is the point that we got involved was Friday morning.

GRACE: Has the family been polygraphed?

GARCIA: The family came forward immediately and volunteered to be polygraphed. The entire family has been cleared of anything with these polygraphs.

GRACE: Now she had a debit card. Has that been used?

GARCIA: It has not. There`s been no activity on that nor has the check that she was given by family for the lamb been cashed.

GRACE: And where are police? Where have they been searching?

GARCIA: Well, police have been conducting investigative situations. They stopped their physical search by utilizing their people and San Diego County sheriff.

GRACE: Why?

GARCIA: . search and rescue people on Thursday. So there has been no.

GRACE: Why? Why did they quit?

GARCIA: No new evidence. There was nothing to substantiate where she might be so they stopped on Thursday evening.

GRACE: Did little Amber have a cell phone? Has it been used?

GARCIA: Amber did have a cell phone. She apparently had taken it with her and it was not found at home. Apparently the next day, there was a -- about a 30-second blast on it where they -- police were able to get one ping from one tower, but the location outside of Escondido has not been divulged.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Sharon in Virginia, hi, Sharon.

SHARON, FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

SHARON: I was wondering if there was any way that you could talk to this one girl who said that she -- someone tried to kidnap her and tried to think if it`s the same guy that got Amber.

GRACE: Well what do we think about that, Bill Garcia?

GARCIA: Well, there have been a series of attempted abductions of teenage girls in the north San Diego County area and in most instances the description is an older model white utility van. No further description other than there has been reported to be at least one to three Hispanic men.

In one situation within the last month a teenage girl was abducted. She was held for approximately 20 minutes before being released and this was reported by San Diego County Sheriff.

GRACE: To Dr. David Posey, medical examiner joining us out of L.A. Dr. Posey, thank you for being with us. Doctor, if she were forced into a van on her way to school which is extremely rare, 7:00 a.m. in the morning. It is very disturbing. What forensic evidence, if any, would you expect to find in that van?

DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: Well, I think trace evidence would be one thing we`d be looking for. Obviously, she may leave particles of clothing, there may be DNA from little flecks of skin coming off. If she accidentally cut herself, there could be some blood there, so there`s all kinds of evidence if a van could be found to tie her to the van.

So those would be the things as an investigator I`d be looking for.

GRACE: To the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Alex Sanchez, a reward is up, Alex, by the family. Do you believe rewards have helped? Have they helped in cases you have handled?

SANCHEZ: I think it will help. Because one thing about teenagers, they don`t keep secrets very well and they love money. And if there`s a kid out there who has any information, please go to police. If this young is watching the show right now, call the show and we`ll put you in contact with your mother.

GRACE: Ray Giudice, rewards help?

GIUDICE: They always do. Because every time the reward goes up, it goes on the media, it raises attention to the case.

GRACE: And to Lauren Howard, this does not sound like the kind of girl who would put her parents through this kind of pain.

HOWARD: No, it doesn`t but it also doesn`t sound like the kind of girl who would just go -- just go off with a stranger. So it begs the question, did she know this person? It`s a tough one, Nancy. This is a tough one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. I don`t think she`s a runaway. She had too many things planned. There was nothing taken from the home. Usually in a runaway situation, I mean, they at least take a change of clothes. That`s not the case here. The little cash that she had was not taken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here. I`m trying to keep things positive. It`s really hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: There is nothing to suggest this little girl ran away. No clothes were taken. The money, the cash in her room that she had saved up was not taken. Her debit card or cell phone not used.

Out to the lines, Deb in Illinois, hi, Deb. Deb, are you with me?

DEB, FROM ILLINOIS: Yes.

GRACE: Hi, what`s your question, dear?

DEB: Are you sure that maybe she didn`t run away, by any chance?

GRACE: Marc Klaas, you have studied these cases so -- for so long, what do you think?

KLAAS: Well, given the history of the little girl and everything that everybody says about her, I think the chances of her having run away are very, very remote. I think the only indication that that might be a possibility is the fact that some of her friends claim they have seen her, but again, that could always be something else as well.

GRACE: John Lucich, what do you make of it?

JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": No way. Absolutely not. There`s so much evidence that says that this girl was taken. She was on her way to school, end of story.

GRACE: 7:00 in the morning with the check in her pocket.

To Deborah in Florida. Hi, Deb, what`s your question?

DEBORAH, FROM FLORIDA: Oh, hello. Would the police let us know if there were cameras? There must be have been cameras on some buildings or businesses in the area?

GRACE: Good question. Bill Garcia, have they checked into the camera, surveillance video?

GARCIA: Actually, there was cameras at the school, at the high school. There was also intersection cameras. We.

GRACE: Did they get anything?

GARCIA: They did not. They were too grainy and it was a drab day so there wasn`t anything useful.

GRACE: Everyone, take a look at this little girl. 1-888-55-AMBER. Or www.bringamberhome.com.

Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Robert Vallejo II, 28, Richland Hills, Texas, killed Iraq. A Texas University grad. Loved military science, jogging every morning at 5:00 a.m. Lost his life one day before his wife found out she`s having a baby boy. Leaves behind parents Robert and Juanita, three sisters, widow Hillary Ann and a baby son he will never meet, Robert.

Robert Vallejo, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Relative Discusses Case of Missing Girl; Investigators Following Leads in Haleigh Cummings Disappearance

Aired February 24, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight perplexing questions piling up in the desperate search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Cops are seriously investigating the little brother`s tip that a man in black took Haleigh. Sixteen hundred tips, and their best lead may come from a 4- year-old.

And when cops re-interviewed Haleigh`s father, he gave investigators a piece of paper. Did that note contain crucial information?

Plus, another stunning similarity to the Caylee Anthony case, as a psychic weighs in. I`ll tell you what he said, and I`ll be taking your calls.

Then, stunning developments in the Caylee Anthony case as the civil showdown with Zanny the nanny looms. Mom, Casey, has received over $1,000 from strangers since she`s been in jail. Who`s sending her this money and why?

Speaking of money, a Casey Anthony doll on sale on eBay. Who`s profiting from this one? I`ll have the latest development.

And high drama in the Octomom story. Nadia Suleman and her mother get into a heated argument on camera, but was it staged? I thought Octomom wasn`t doing reality TV.

Plus, TMZ reports cops were called to the Suleman home last night after a neighbor ran around waving a shotgun. I`ll have the latest details in the Suleman circus.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a shocking twist in the desperate search for missing Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. There has been an avalanche of almost 2,000 leads, but the best lead police have so far appears to come from Haleigh`s younger brother Junior. Four-year-old Junior claims that a mystery man dressed in black snatched little Haleigh from her bed.

Here`s what Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, said on "NANCY GRACE" last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": I know this sounds crazy, but to the best of your recollection, what were his exact words?

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH: He said, "Mommy, I went to find my sissy, and some man in black come in and took her."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But hours ago in a perplexing twist, Jacksonville affiliate WJXT asked Haleigh`s dad, Ronald Cummings, if little Junior had shared this detail with him. Here`s what the dad said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I don`t know nothing about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he say anything to you?

CUMMINGS: I think that those questions are questions that y`all should discuss with detectives. I`m not here to answer any questions. I`m here to plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home. I don`t care how she gets here, just bring her home. And if you`re watching, baby, I love you. That`s all I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, in light of accusations involving drug use and violence being traded by Haleigh`s family in recent days, Orlando affiliate WFTV is now reporting that Crystal Sheffield and Ron Cummings, Haleigh`s parents, were involved in a bitter custody battle, so the recent accusations of drugs and violence may be well-covered ground for them.

WFTV also reports that three years ago Sheffield took Haleigh and her brother away from her dad, even though he had custody. Ronald Cummings reportedly had to go to court to get them back. He insists Haleigh`s disappearance has nothing to do with the custody dispute.

Also tonight reports that Cummings has a rap sheet, as some would say, a mile long. We have that rap sheet. Is it relevant or not? We`re going to get into that. Our expert panel will weigh in.

So much to talk about and as always, I am taking your calls. But first, with me now is a very special guest, Connie Sheffield, Haleigh Cummings` maternal stepmother.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight. I know this has to be extraordinarily difficult for you and your family. Just so we understand, you were married to Crystal`s father. Crystal is Haleigh`s mother.

There seems to be a growing rift between your side of Haleigh`s family and the father`s side of Haleigh`s family. Why is this rift growing, do you think? And it seems to be betting bitter with every passing hour with all sorts of nasty accusations?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD, STEPMOTHER OF CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD: I think there are concerns for R.J.`s safety. People are tired, angry, hurt, and we don`t have any answers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So when you say R.J., you`re talking about Junior, the little boy?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you have concerns about his safety. Well, that`s a new one. I had not even thought about that. Obviously, we`re all looking for little Haleigh, but the implication is that he might not be in safe hands right now.

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: Not necessarily in reference to whom he`s with, but whoever took Haleigh may target the family again. We don`t know this. So I`m concerned for my son myself. He`s 3, and, you know, when nightfall comes about in this neighborhood, we left. We wouldn`t even stay for the vigils.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So are you operating on the theory that was originally brought up by Geraldo Rivera on FOX, and he went up to Ron Cummings, the father of the missing child, and said, "Are you a drug informant for the police?" And he said absolutely not.

Now I will say that law enforcement was asked about that just earlier this evening on Headline News, and law enforcement said we`re not going get into that one way or another, which I think is a mistake. I think that they need to clarify at this point what`s going on, because there`s so much rumor and speculation at this point.

But ma`am, are you referring to that issue when you say you`re afraid for little Junior and for even your own child?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: No, just you know, when you`re up here and you have so many people coming up offering their condolences, you don`t know if the person who took Haleigh might be hugging your neck or shaking your hand, if it`s someone locally in this area. So I was concerned for all the children here. There were several kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So there`s a sense of palpable fear.

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: Yes, there is a fear. I fear for my son, all of the children. I told parents, you know, try to keep them close by in a group, because until we know all the answers, that is the fear.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can totally relate to that, and I`ve covered other cases where a child has gone missing, and fear swept through the entire neighborhood. When people don`t have answers, obviously, if they have children their imaginations are going to run wild and they`re going to be afraid.

So you`re saying that people in that community are keeping their children indoors, and you and other parents are keeping close watch on these children because you`re scared?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: Yes. I noticed several parents picking their children up on golf carts from the bus stop, seeing to it that there was someone there, whether it was a mother or a father, aunt or an uncle, to pick up the children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What bothers you most about this perplexing case? We -- we are all mystified. How did this child disappear out of a double-wide trailer with two other people asleep? The little boy, Ron Jr., has reportedly said that a man in black -- dressed in black took him away. Have you heard that from his lips, and what are your thoughts on all of this, this mystery?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: The day it happened he was allowed to walk up to where we were all located, and I think that`s more or less the mind of a child when speaking to find some comfort in where his sister may have gone because the children are afraid themselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you saying you don`t believe that a man in black went in there -- in other words, you think that this is a child`s imagination?

CONNIE SHEFFIELD: I would. That`s what I think, because my son himself there again. When we took him home he drew pictures about boats and helicopters. And him and R.J. are closely related in age, so I can see where a child would want to find reasoning to all this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to thank you so much, Connie, and I hope you come back. I hope we get some good news. We all here pray that this little child comes home safely and that all the children in your neighborhood remain absolutely safe. Our thoughts are with you and your family. Thank you.

I want to turn now to my expert panel: Judge Jeanine Pirro, former district attorney and host of "The Judge Jeanine Pirro Show"; David Schwartz, criminal defense attorney; Vinnie Parko, private investigator; Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist; and Jennifer Bauer, a reporter with WJXT-TV.

Jennifer, let`s start off with you. What is the very latest?

JENNIFER BAUER, REPORTER, WJXT-TV: Today, Jane, investigators continue to follow up on leads. As you mentioned earlier, now almost 2,000 tips. And when we spoke to detectives earlier today they said those calls are coming in from all over the country. And I really do think it`s because of shows like this one, getting the word out all over the nation that this little 5-year-old is still missing. Two weeks, no new significant leads, and police tell us, though, a lot of leads coming in, but so far they`re not turning into anything.

Also a lot of Haleigh sightings, they said. We`ve gotten a lot of calls. People saying they think they spotted the little girls and detectives have checked out each and every one of those calls, but so far nothing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Jeanine Pirro, you just heard one of the relatives talking about her terror. She`s afraid for her own child. People in that neighborhood are panicked because of this mystery.

Now the authorities, while doing an absolutely astounding job, and they`re all working around the clock, so I certainly never want to be critical of the authorities. I mean, they`re giving this their all. However, that being said, couldn`t they clear up some of the question marks at this point and eliminate certain people as suspects and sort of give us an idea of where this is headed?

For example, we just discussed Geraldo Rivera went down there and asked the dad, "Are you a drug informant for the authorities," because he does have some drug arrests on his rap sheet. We`re going to get to that in a second. No convictions, however.

Now, he said absolutely not, but when a law enforcement official was asked about that, he said, "We`re not going to comment on that one way or another." Why not? If he`s not a drug informant, why now say, "You now what? That`s nonsense. There`s no truth to that," so that people can put their mind at rest. Because the way it stands right now, if people are thinking that that might be true, they might be thinking that some drug cartel or some drug thug is out there snatching kids as a form of revenge or retaliation for him ratting on someone.

JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO, HOST, "THE JUDGE JEANINE PIRRO SHOW": Well, you know, Jane, your question is an excellent one and the bottom line is this: the police have no obligation to tell the public whether or not someone is a confidential informant. I mean, w e had them registered when I was a D.A. You had someone to working with us. The last thing we`re going to do is identify this person as an informant and, you know, to try to quell the fears of the community.

Here`s the bottom line, Jane. You know, now we`re seeing crime up close and personal, and we want to have resolution. We want it all decided, but you know what? If you remember the John Couey case with the young girl who was...

PIRRO: Yes, sure. Jessica Lunsford. She was in the closet after the police had already cleared through that trailer. You know, you can`t say everything is resolved yet. It is a fluid, ongoing situation with no obligation by the police to make us feel better.

And, you know, at the end of day, if he is or is not a drug dealer, someone took that child, whether it -- drugs were a motivation or, you know, for some other reason.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. It was never that he was a drug dealer. It was the allegation that he might have been a drug informant for the cops.

PIRRO: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. We got your point. Everyone, stay right there. We`re just getting started right here on ISSUES. Do you think cops making headway in the search for the man in black? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297 and let me know.

But first, here is Haleigh`s dad pleading, pleading for her safe return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: Please bring my daughter home. She`s not yours. It`s not property, you know. It`s not something that you just take and say it`s mine or whatever. This is my daughter. This is blood, and I would like to have my daughter back, please. Please bring my daughter home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA NEVIS, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I fear for both of my grandchildren. Whoever has Haleigh, I want them to bring her home. We`ve not asked for anything more than to just drop her off somewhere that she can be found and somewhere that she can be brought home to her father. That`s all we`ve ever asked for from them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Haleigh`s paternal grandmother believes somebody abducted Haleigh in the early hours of February 10, and that someone knew that the father, Ronald Cummings, was not at home.

Back with my fantastic panel. The phone lines are lighting up. Lois, Illinois. Question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes. I have remembered that they had accused the father of having an argument with someone the night before she was abducted, and I remember his first interview he had a Band-Aid, I believe under his left eye. Was any of that ever explored?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me get into a segue question that relates to that, and that is this rap sheet which we have gone through. It`s long. I mean, I don`t know if you can see it here, but that`s -- it`s quite a hefty little rap sheet.

But I have to say that in this father`s defense, while he`s been arrested for drugs, he has never been convicted on any drug charges. All the drug charges have been dismissed. He`s also had some driving problems, but a lot of people have had driving problems. In Florida, those dismissals are called withhold of adjudication.

David Schwartz, what does that mean, because usually we hear plead guilty or not guilty. Here we`re seeing "withhold of adjudication."

DAVID SCHWARTZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Basically, Jane, it`s a second chance statute in Florida. You know, if you have a minor criminal record, which in my opinion this is not even a rap sheet. He`s got a very minor criminal record, one misdemeanor conviction. If you have a minor record, the judge can choose to give you this withhold of adjudication, which gives you a second chance. It puts you on probation. If you successfully complete the probation, then there is no convict at all. It`s completely wiped out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Lisa, Texas, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes, I actually have two questions, the first of which being we`ve heard about Misty being 17. Nobody has said how old Ronald Cummings is. I find that very interesting, considering that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think he`s 25, isn`t he? Yes. 25 years old.

CALLER: Really? OK. Well, there you go. I personally have a problem with that. I`d like to know if that`s even legal and how old the mom was when she had the two kids.

Then the other question I had, quickly, was I wonder if the conviction for contributing to the delinquency of a minor might have been caused by him feeding Misty tobacco because at least in Texas, you have to be 18 to buy cigarettes, and you see them puffing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`ve been studying and pondering this case, ma`am. I`m going to give you a Sherlock Holmes cap. Good thoughts.

I think that it is OK, it`s legal, because she is of age. This is what another lawyer had mentioned. Yell at me if I`m wrong.

But I want to get to two other issues. The man dressed in black. Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist, the child says a man dressed in black took the child. What do you make of it? Is it a child`s imagination, as Connie Sheffield suggested?

BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, it could be. Children that age do live if a world of fantasy, imagination, and when something frightening comes into a child`s world, they do try to figure out in their own way, to the limits of their own cognitive capacity, what could have happened. Well, somebody bad took my sister. Somebody bad would be dressed in black.

Now the flipside of that, of course, is we don`t know if he actually saw something. My guess is he was asleep at the time. My guess is this is probably part of his imagination giving him an explanation he can live with.

But Jane, I want to say something about these families at war with each other. They are hurting their own chances of finding Haleigh and working this through, because they`re pitted against each other, which isn`t unusual...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

WADE: ... when there`s been a separation, but they`ve got to remember there`s unity in strength, strength in unity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It is.

Vinnie Parko, you`ve been listening to all of this. What do you make of this? I mean, this case is a total mystery. It`s baffling everyone.

VINNIE PARKO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, if this kid is telling the truth, if there was a man in black and this man -- Cummings had a fight or an argument the night before. And, in looking at his rap sheet, they are minor crimes, but it`s funny how he`s got no -- no convictions. Either he has a very good attorney or maybe he is cooperating with the police, and maybe this is retaliation for him cooperating.

PIRRO: Jane -- Jane, can I say something here?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

PIRRO: I`ve got his rap sheet in front of me. This guy has been arrested at least nine times. He`s 25 years old. I`ve got him on probation three times, and it sounds to me, and I`ve got to tell you, Vinnie, it`s starting to make sense to me. For him to have so many dismissals, ultimately, and a refusal to go into drug programs with arrests for cocaine, as well as for marijuana, tells me he`s cooperating.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, you know what? I wish we could discuss this all night. I think that we have to stick with what the police said. They`re not commenting on it. And he says it`s not true. But food for thought.

Vinnie, David, Jennifer, thank you so much. Judge Jeanine, Brenda, hang tight.

Shocking details emerge in the case of an 11-year-old boy accused of fatally shooting his dad`s pregnant fiance. Was the attack premeditated?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH HOUK, VICTIM`S MOTHER: He knew all about guns. He knew the severity of guns. He knew the danger of a gun. He was -- he should have gone to therapy, come on, and he knows what he did. He killed my daughter (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- my baby`s dead. She`s never coming home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So sad. That was the mother of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk, in total agony over the loss of her pregnant daughter. Tonight, new and disturbing details emerge about what prosecutors say was a premeditated execution-style shooting committed by an 11-year-old boy.

Shocking revelations about the boy, who allegedly took a child-sized 20-gauge hunting gun, a gift from his father, and turned it on the father`s fiance. New evidence: a blanket with a quarter-sized hole, shows he might have tried to hide the gun as he allegedly carried it through the house.

Plus, details emerging that jealousy was a possible motive and that the 11-year-old had threatened to kill Kenzie and her two girls at least once. So much to discuss.

Joining me now, the first person to discuss it with, Judge Jeanine Pirro, former district attorney, judge and host of "The Judge Jeanine Pirro Show."

Judge Jeanine, we have now learned that the boy will be moved to a juvenile facility tomorrow from adult jail. How should the criminal justice system handle this? Because just because he`s moved to the juvenile facility doesn`t mean he`s going to be tried as a juvenile. He`s still facing adult charges, which to me seems insane, given that he is 11 years old.

PIRRO: Well, you know, the laws in many states, Jane, give prosecutors the ability to charge young people -- they call them juvenile offenders -- as adults. But understand what the law in Pennsylvania is. In the juvenile justice system there, there is no murder charge. So that prosecutors, the D.A. in Pennsylvania, would not be able to charge him with any kind of homicide.

So they want to charge him as an adult so that he can be prosecuted for murder. But understand, since he`s a juvenile, they can only keep him until he`s 21. But they have to house him in a place separate from the county -- from the county jail with adults. They have to house him in a juvenile detention center.

So, you know, we can go into this discussion as to whether or not was he adult, was he acting as an adult?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s 11 years old! What 11-year-old acts like an adult?

PIRRO: It`s hard to fathom, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is.

PIRRO: I agree with you. You know what? He had a gun and knew how to use it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: His dad gave him a gun for Christmas. He taught him how to use it.

PIRRO: And he won a turkey shoot on Valentine`s Day, and he wrapped it in a blanket after, you know, the woman`s daughter saw him come down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me get to this.

PIRRO: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A theme being pursued by the prosecutor, jealousy. The prosecutor contending the 11-year-old was jealous that his father`s attention was being divided by the girlfriend, her own kids and the baby on the way. Kenzie`s mom thought the same thing. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOUK: Maybe a month and a half ago, it was brought to our attention that he had made a remark that he would kill my daughter. He hated her, and he would kill the two girls. He`d shoot them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Nevertheless, this gun was a functional gun, and it was left in his access. It wasn`t locked up somewhere.

PIRRO: Right. And apparently, it was a gun that is for young people. Don`t ask me about this. But he had not only threatened his victim and her daughters, and luckily the 7-year-old is still alive, and she told police where the spent shell casing was. But in addition to that, he knew how to use it. He was very good with the gun.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He was trained to kill. He was trained to kill turkeys.

PIRRO: And you know what? And he hated someone, and he knew to take that weapon. But you know what, Jane? It`s a tough issue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is.

PIRRO: When I was a D.A., I prosecuted a 13-year-old for murder. It`s a wrenching decision.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to go. Sit tight. We`re just minutes away from this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony`s civil showdown with Zanny the nanny is looming, but stunning developments to report in the murder of her daughter Caylee. Casey has received more than $1,000 from strangers since she`s been in jail. Who is sending her this money and why?

Plus high drama in the octo-mom story, Nadya Suleman and her mom get into a heated argument on camera, but was it staged? Plus the Oprah interview with Suleman`s father aired today. More staged TV drama? I`ll have the latest details in the circus surrounding octo-mom.

"ISSUES" continues now.

Bizarre developments tonight in the Caylee Anthony case. Reports that accused mom Casey Anthony has gotten over $1,000 in donations from stranger all across America to her jailhouse bank account.

Believe it or not, Casey has a strange collection of fans. A 15-year- old Florida boy has donated his savings to help Casey out and apparently she isn`t the only one looking for some cash. Today a seller on EBay posted a Casey Anthony doll draped in American flag.

You will recognize the outfit from pictures of Casey Anthony partying with friends just before little Caylee went missing and we`ve got some late-breaking developments on that doll issue to tell you about in a moment.

Meantime, reports say Roy Kronk, the former meter reader who found little Caylee`s remains recently paid his wife, his ex-wife $5,000 in unpaid child support. Did Kronk use his reward money to make a dent in his debt?

Plus, the Zenaida Gonzalez civil case heating up; George and Cindy Anthony continue to fight their depositions set for this Thursday. Gonzalez looking for punitive damages after Casey linked her name to the child`s disappearance. So much going on this week.

Judge Janine Pirro back with me and also joining us, Cindy Adams the crime examiner for examiner.com and she`s been following this case since the beginning.

Let`s start with Thursday`s planned depositions by Zenaida Gonzalez. Just before we went to air we heard some breaking news that the attorney for George and Cindy filed a motion to prevent them from having to give their depositions on Thursday. But Judge Janine, it`s very late in the game. We`re only two days away, is he taking a risk filing so late?

JANINE PIRRO, "JUDGE JANINE SHOW": Well, I think that any judge is going to look at this and say, number one, my calendar is already arranged for Thursday, but I think it`s the basis of the motion that`s really ludicrous saying that George and Cindy are really not in such great mental health and therefore he wants them to testify only when they have a clear head.

Look, Jane, there are two victims in the Caylee Anthony case, Caylee Anthony and Zenaida Gonzalez. The woman who had her name and reputation trashed and now the Anthonys who were saying the native -- the nanny took our baby don`t want to be questioned about it. Too bad, they need to be questioned.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Cindy Adams, Lee the brother of Casey says I`m going to go to my deposition and I`m going to just -- I`m not fighting it. Because I have nothing to say and I don`t know anything about Zanny the nanny and that`s what I`m going to tell them. So why don`t Cindy and George do the same thing?

CINDY ADAMS, CRIME EXAMINER, EXAMINER.COM: I think their attorney is arguing that they`re psychologically damaged and they`re not ready to talk where Lee I think has been a lot more forthcoming. I think he was with the FBI and I don`t think he has anything to hide. So I think he`s ready to go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to get to this whole bid about profiting out tragedy. There has been more than one doll related to the Caylee Anthony case. The Caylee Sunshine doll was met with appropriate outrage --

ADAMS: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- and production stopped. The doll actually saying you are my sunshine, a song Caylee loved. That to me is totally sick and then a Casey -- and that`s the Caylee sunshine doll right there.

Now, take a look at this one. This was the Casey Anthony voodoo doll that actually drew a bidding war on EBay. That`s another sick little manifestation of the bizarreness of this case. And then today, the piece de resistance also on EBay, a Casey Anthony doll wearing an American flag. There she is no doubt inspired by the photos of the real Casey Anthony wearing an American flag to a party over the summer.

Now we`re going to show you the pictures of Caylee partying, but I`m sure you`ve seen it before if you`ve been covering this case. These items apparently just taken down from EBay.

Cindy, what do you know about that doll with the American flag on it being taken down?

ADAMS: Well, when I first reported on this, I got a comment or a message from the seller that asked how she could get publicity for her book. And then I got a lot of outrage from readers and they were commenting on how horrible this doll was and the seller came back and said she was sorry. That it was in poor taste. She took it down, but she still is trying to tout her book.

So I have a feeling it was all based on trying to sell her book, getting publicity for her book.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: God, people are coming out of the woodwork in this case and other high profile cases and it just sends a chill down my spine.

Now, just who is sending Casey Anthony money? One 15-year-old in Florida says he donated $25 out of sympathy for George Anthony. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW MILLER, DONATED TO CASEY ANTHONY: Because he really identified with Caylee by doing something that Caylee would want that would make him feel better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, Judge Janine, what would you tell this youngster along with the other people sending Casey money in jail so she can buy snacks and beauty products?

PIRRO: You know that they have flawed reasoning, Jane, to think that it`s going to help Caylee by giving the grandfather some solace by giving the alleged murderer money is just bizarre, but in this world there`s nothing that surprises me anymore.

And there will be people who will want to give money to Casey, but at the end of day, I think that justice will be served and people will see her for what she truly is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s see. We`ve got a long way to go before the trial happens. It`s going to like in a year. Judge Janine and Cindy, thank you so much.

PIRRO: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, turning to the continuing drama in the Casey Anthony case it can only be rivaled by one person. You guessed it, octo- mom. Today the never-ending circus reached new heights as both of Nadya Suleman`s parents were speaking out again.

Octo-grandpa, Ed Doud, on "Oprah" today and she asked him very pointedly about his daughter`s responsibility or lack thereof.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, "OPRAH WINFREY SHOW" HOST: Do you think the doctor was irresponsible?

ED DOUD, GRANDFATHER OF OCTUPLEST: Absolutely irresponsible exactly.

WINFREY: And do you think your daughter was irresponsible?

DOUD: Irresponsible, too.

WINFREY: You think your daughter was irresponsible?

DOUD: Yes, ma`am. She listened to him. She had seen this doctor.

WINFREY: Let me ask you this.

DOUD: Yes.

WINFREY: It`s a very pointed question, you can answer or not. Do you think your daughter is mentally stable?

DOUD: That`s a very good question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sure is. Joining in on the chorus of criticism is Nadya`s own mother Angela Suleman. Nadya squared off with her in an interview from radaronline.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NADYA SULEMAN, OCTO-MOM: I will never understand your inflexibility and your inability to --

ANGELA SULEMAN, GRANDMOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: Inflexibility.

N. SULEMAN: Yes, to be able to accept and let go. Learn to let go.

A. SULEMAN: Yes, but if I could totally let go, these are my grandchildren, I would, but you know, it`s very difficult now you have eight more.

N. SULEMAN: No, no excuse me, not now, learn to let go of what I chose to do. You didn`t accept it, move forward.

A. SULEMAN: Something was happening there because, you know, in the first place you should have considered your other six children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ai, ai, ai. And believe it or not, the drama doesn`t end there. TMZ reports cops were called to octo-mom`s house last night after reports of a ma brandishing a gun was outside. So much to talk about tonight. I`m going to be taking your calls.

But first, let`s go straight out to my panel: Mike Walters, with TMZ.com and Mary Margaret, senior news editor at Radar online, plus the much-needed Brenda Wade, clinical psychologist.

Let`s start with Mike Walters. Of course, drama seems to follow octo- mom everywhere she goes. What can you tell us about the cops coming to her house last night?

MIKE WALTERS, TMZ.COM: Yes, Jane, this was a gun, this was a shot gun. A couple of doors down from octo-mom, a neighbor came out carrying a shotgun and went from his car to the trunk -- I mean, from his house to the trunk of the car.

Now, we`re told by the cops that he wasn`t threatening, he wasn`t pointing it, but he definitely is frustrated with the cameras and the media activity on the street. You know, we talked to a couple of their neighbors and apparently it`s trashed everywhere, there`s corn on the cobs chewed and like thrown all over the place and this isn`t just paparazzi, it`s news cameras and big sat trucks and even the school bus trying to get into the street to pick up the kids for school can`t get in and out and apparently the cops have to -- yes, usher the bus in and out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Nadya Suleman gets a whole lot of attention especially when she`s out in public. You`ve got to take a look at this video again from TMZ.com that shows the strong reaction to Nadya when she`s out and about. Listen closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the one that`s spending all our money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, wait! Come over here and tell us what you think.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our tax money that`s using it. Sorry!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think about that, Nadya?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get a job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brenda Wade, they`re yelling at her, get a job.

BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, she did say when the kids were born God will provide and of course, the right answer isn`t God will provide, it`s I`m going to have to work really hard to provide.

But Jane, her squaring off on her mother and telling her mother you have to accept and let go when in fact her mother is one of the main caretakers and supporters of her children.

She is burdening her mother. She`s burdening taxpayers. She`s burdening a lot of people. This woman is not living in the real world. And she`s living in a fantasy world where the children at the end of day, are the ones who`re going to lose out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I wonder if octo-grandma isn`t a little co- dependent and needs to take care of that issue.

Ok, everybody, stay right there. What do you think of these very weird developments surrounding octo-mom? 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Let me know.

Take a listen to the rap spoofing of octo-mom. Not quite as good as Christian Bale`s remake, it`s pretty funny.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More from the circus surrounding octo-mom Nada Suleman, but first, "Top of the Block" tonight.

This is just a case of horrific, pure evil. The trial against this monster, accused pedophile Chester Stiles, began this week with gut- wrenching testimony from an 11-year-old girl alleged to be one of his victims.

Stiles allegedly videotaped himself in 2003 having sex with a different girl who was just -- I just almost can`t say this, two years old. 2 years old. The case sparked a national man hunt in 2007 after images from that tape were made public to help cops identify Stiles and the toddler.

The girl from the tape is now 8 years old, safe and healthy. Thankfully, thankfully she has no memory of this sexual assault. She may not be required to testify. Stiles faces 22 counts of sexual assault and lewdness with a minor.

If convicted he could and should spend the rest of his life behind bars; sicko. That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."

Returning now to our conversation on octo-mom and Nadya Suleman, the mother of 14 with no shortage of critics and now you can count her two parents among them. And of course, I`m taking your calls. First back with my fantastic panel and the phone lines lighting up.

Bridget, California, your question or thought, ma`am.

BRIDGET, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

BRIDGET: I just want to say I love your show. I love Nancy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We love her, too.

BRIDGET: And I think Adult Protective Services need to go ahead and intervene. The parents, their needs are not being met. They`re worn out. They look broken down, and it`s just not right and she`s being very, very selfish; very selfish.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you 100 percent. Thank you for that call.

Mary Margaret, you`re the senior news editor with radar online. Thanks for your patience. Believe it or not, there are so many things happening with octo-mom, it`s a three-ring circus indeed.

You actually, your news organization spent some time with octo-mom and the mother and we`re going to hear a clip in a moment, but set it up. What was your impression of the dynamic between these two because I have to say, watching what you guys videotaped, I get a sense of this young woman acting out some kind of psycho drama, childhood trauma resentment with her mother. And the kids are almost pawns in this sort of sick dynamic between mother and daughter.

MARY MARGARET, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR, RADAR ONLINE: Right, -- no, Jane, you`re definitely right. We knew going into it there was going to be a high level of drama. Obviously these two women have been at odds for a very long time. We were pleasantly surprised that once we got them to sit down, all of those issues came to a fore.

One thing that was great about having Angela on camera was that she was the voice of all that scrutiny out there that was on the minds of the American public. One thing that you mentioned earlier was, how is she going to pay for these children. And that`s something that Nadya responded finally in a video we posted to today. She kind of lives in this fantasy world where she`s going to write a book and she`s going to have a $40,000 a year counseling salary that`s going to feed 14 children.

It`s not going to happen, but at the same time this is -- what we found was her underpinning and her thought process going forward.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She has some kind of -- I don`t know if there`s a psychological phrase for it, Brenda Wade, but she has this kind of syndrome where anything she thinks in her head she makes it sound realistic. Like, if I thought it therefore it can happen.

BRENDA WADE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly.

Right. Well, for sure she`s narcissistic, Jane, and there`s a very immature personality; very immature quality to her. Even watching her with the child that she`s kissing over and over and over and over, it`s just not appropriate behavior.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. There`s something wrong here.

Octo grandma had more to say about her daughter and mother of 14 kids. Take a look and a listen at more of this contentious interview from radaronline.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF NADYA SULEMAN: I feel sorry for them.

NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS` MOM: Because they`re healthy and thriving and crying?

A. SULEMAN: No, because there are so many and how are you going to be able to provide for them? 14, think about it, Nadya; 14.

N. SULEMAN: I have to let go of my need to control everything and I have to accept the help that`s been offered.

A. SULEMAN: I hope you`ll get help. I really hope so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is so rich.

Brenda Wade, I have to go back to you as the psychologist. What occurs to me is that grandma is a little co-dependent on her daughter and therefore the daughter feels that she has sort of the freedom to do anything that pops into her mind because guess who`s going to -- who is the safety net that no matter what happens is going to come in and rescue her?

WADE: Right and mom`s going to clean up the mess and the thing that is so ironic is that in the video she`s saying to her mother you have to let go of controlling when at the same time she`s saying to her mother and by the way, I am counting on you to make it all work. And the mom`s going, but you have 14 children.

Now, Jane, I also have to say I am saddened by the public attacks on her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I know you are.

WADE: out in public. That`s not going to help anybody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in. If octo-grandma had not done so much with the first six kids, do you think she would have felt the freedom to go and have eight more? Just a quick question.

WADE: Darn good question, Jane. Darn good question. And I think the answer to the question is that her mom certainly has been co dependent. She`s probably motivated by wanting to protect and nurture her grandchildren.

What grandmother wouldn`t be, but she has gone far enough that Nadya thinks it doesn`t matter what I do, mom will pick up the pieces. So she doesn`t have to grow up.

And maybe mom needs to visit Al Anon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there`s a program for that. There`s a program for co-dependent behavior where essentially, and I`m just giving my definition of it is when you`re addicted to the person with the problem. They become your drug because they`re so exciting. You have to give it to octo-mom. She is exciting.

WADE: But her mom looks exhausted.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not fun being co-dependent.

Mike Walters, what about a deal? We`ve heard so much. Obviously, this woman is very confident that something will work out. We keep hearing there might be a deal somewhere or maybe she made a lot of little deals around Hollywood as is often the case.

MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Well, I mean, let`s first say that octo-grandma is losing her house on March 5th. It goes on the auction block for sale where they all live. So first of all, it`s been reported that octo-mom has already taken money -- I mean octo-grandma has taken money for an interview.

Get beyond that, octo-mom also sold her pictures through an agency of her kids. She has a website where she`s collecting visa deposits. So hopefully, for their sake, the kids, octo-mom will take this money and pay for their care. Let`s all hope that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have so much more. We`re back in a minute with more octo-mom drama. Hang in there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re back taking your calls and discussing all of the latest in the octo-mom case including the growing rift between Nadya Suleman and her parents.

Let`s go back to Mary Margaret, senior news editor, radar online; quite a scoop that you managed to get octo-mom and octo-grandma to sit down in front of cameras and argue.

MARY MARGARET: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did you accomplish that? The entire world was focused on Nadya and everything was about Nadya. And then we kind of stepped back and thought there`s more drama here. Where did this woman come from and what is the story behind her family?

And we approached her mother and her mother thankfully was welcome to kind of talk about the allegations of Nadya`s childhood and the dysfunction behind that. And one thing I would like on mention, TMZ, you know, brought up the fact that the interview might have been paid for and one thing is there was no money exchange. Radar online doesn`t pay for interviews, but at the same time I`m sure Nadya`s book`s going do well and the family will profit handsomely for this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you didn`t exchange any money in any way, shape or form. I just want to clear that up because there is always speculation that various people can say we didn`t pay them, but they paid somebody else that paid them at the end.

MARY MARGARET: No, to set the record straight, radar online, we`re a news organization and we don`t pay for interviews. We did give a location for the interview which was that house that everyone was speculating whether or not Nadya was going to buy it, but that`s pretty much the extent of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

Paula in Florida. Your question or thought, ma`am?

PAULA, FLORIDA: I actually have three. One is if the man that talked to you last night turns out to be the eight babies` dads can the state of California go after him for the child support.

The second one since she`s an Angelina Jolie look alike, why didn`t she go to a celebrity look alike thing and make money doing that to support her family.

And the third one is I love your show, and I love your outspokenness, and that`s it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is so sweet of you. Thank you, Paula. That`s very nice to hear.

I think I`m going to throw that out to Brenda Wade, psychologist in terms of the whole Angelina Jolie thing. I mean, look, Angelina Jolie is one of the most beautiful women in the world, we all know that. And Nadya Suleman, I`m not saying she`s unattractive, but she`s no Angelina Jolie, let`s face it; even if she`s trying to look like her.

WADE: Well, she`s obsessed with Angelina Jolie. I understand that she`s written letters for some period of time to Miss Jolie. She`s had surgery so she looks more like Angelina Jolie.

All of this says again, she`s not living in the real world. She`s living in a fantasy world. I do hope she`s going to get, first of all, good psychotherapy. Her mom`s going go to Al Anon and she needs some parenting classes. She`s got 14 kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re done. That`s it. We`re out of time. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. You`re watching "ISSUES."

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/24/ijvm.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/25/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

New Developments in Haleigh Cummings Disappearance

Aired February 25, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, stunning new twists and turns in the disappearance of Haleigh Cummings, centering around her own family. Tensions were building in the days leading up to her abduction. One week before Haleigh vanished, dad, Ronald, reportedly filed a complaint against mom, Crystal Sheffield, for allegedly failing to pay child support. What does Crystal have to say about this? And could the drama provide clues?

And new questions emerge about Ronald`s arrest record. He fiercely denies reports he was a police informant. But why were his drug charges mysteriously dropped? We`ll take a closer look at this issue.

Then, more fallout from the brutal chimp attack in Connecticut. Victim Charla Nash remains in a medically-induced coma in grave condition. Meantime, her brother preps for a lawsuit on her behalf. I`ll have the very latest developments.

Plus, the Octomom`s psycho drama continues. TMZ reports Nadya Suleman has been offered one million bucks to do a porno. And the Octomom`s media campaign continues as she sits down with Dr. Phil and tells him she may not get immediate custody of her children. And I`ll have more fallout from the outrageous argument between the Octomom and her mother.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is day 16 in the search for missing Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. Investigators have been chasing down false Haleigh sightings as almost 2,000 leads pour in. An exhausted and frustrated family suffers the agony of not knowing.

Meantime, new reports now reveal the tensions between the beautiful little girl`s estranged mother and father reached a fever pitch the day before she disappeared. The reason? Child support. Court documents show Haleigh`s mother, Crystal, owes more than $4,000 in back child support. Her mom says she couldn`t pay, because she can`t find work in this bad economy.

Still, Ron took legal action against Crystal, and the timing is startling. Court papers are dated just one week before Haleigh vanished. But even more shocking: reports that Ron got court documents about the hearing on the day before Haleigh disappeared. Could this simply be a heart-breaking coincidence?

Meantime, questions continue regarding Ron Cummings` arrest record. Why so many drug charges but no convictions? Ron has said flat out he does not do drugs and is not a drug informant for cops. So much to talk about. And I am taking your calls.

First, my fantastic panel. Pastor Terry Wright, the Cummings family pastor; Pam Bondi, Florida state prosecutor; Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; plus Vinny Parco, private investigator; and Cindy Adams, the crime examiner for Crime.com.

Cindy, what is the very latest that you`re getting from CrimeExaminer.com?

CINDY ADAMS, CRIMEEXAMINER.COM: Well, as you talked about, the rap sheet is an issue. Ron has many offenses. He doesn`t seem to have many convictions. He -- he had possession of marijuana, possession of cocaine. And I don`t think that really an issue in Haleigh`s disappearance, but I do think it becomes an issue regarding who he`s associated with and who may, you know, have a vendetta against him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s such a fascinating case. Let`s dive into it. Crystal Sheffield made accusations about her ex, Haleigh`s dad, Ron Cummings` alleged drug use. Geraldo Rivera from FOX asked Cummings about his drug history. Here`s what he said. Listen to Ron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: What about the allegations of cocaine use, methamphetamine use?

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH: There`s nothing. I do not do drugs.

RIVERA: You don`t do drugs? All those arrests were all...

R. CUMMINGS: No.

RIVERA: Do you work for the police? Are you an informant?

R. CUMMINGS: No, I am not an informant. I do not work for the police. I work for PDM, which is a bridge-building company. That`s who I work for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. There you hear it. But let`s look at his arrest record from Putnam County, Florida. Possession of cocaine and cannabis. That was dismissed. Use of drug paraphernalia, no action taken there. Maintaining a drug vehicle, no action taken. Hunting deer with gun from roadway, assault, that was dropped. Possession of a firearm, guilty.

Vinny Parco, you`re the private investigator. Overall, he seems to have gotten a lot of breaks when it comes to his drug arrests. Now, he had absolutely no convictions for drugs.

It`s very important to point out, once again, police say Ron`s alibi is firm. This is not about whether he did anything to his child. He was at work at the time of little Haleigh`s disappearance. But when asked whether he was a drug informant for cops, authorities would neither confirm nor deny it.

Vinny, your thoughts?

VINNY PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: OK. Well, many times law enforcement will not confirm or deny a statement like that. And that`s just standard operating procedure.

But if I was running a drug -- a drug operation for the police, he would be a prime -- prime informant for me. His arrest 4 1/2 years ago was for marijuana, for over excess of 20 grams, which in my opinion is intent to sell. Now, he skated on that. He skated on a lot of -- a lot of these crimes.

Now, he would be the perfect guy to be an informant, because he`s a local guy. He knows everybody. And he`s got a -- I mean, arrest record is extensive, but it`s all minor things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I have to say again -- and I want to go to Pastor Terry Wright, who`s the Cummings family pastor. We are not discussing this to, in any way, shape, or form, imply that this poor man who`s been through hell did anything untoward toward his daughter. Authorities have said this guy was at work when his little girl was abducted.

The reason, Pastor, that it has become relevant is that people don`t have any answers. Nothing adds up. The entire community is living in fear. And there were questions raised as to whether somebody might be trying to retaliate against him, if he had done or said something that had perhaps gotten somebody locked up, for example.

Now, Pastor, you spoke to Ron, and you`ve also spoken to Crystal. Tell us about your conversations, particularly with Ron.

Pastor? Are you there? Oh, we -- we can`t hear the pastor. So as soon as we hear him, we`re going to get back to him. But we`re going to -- I want to hear what the pastor has to say. That is absolutely crucial.

Because we`re not trying to gang up on this guy. We`re trying to get to the heart of a perplexing mystery. And I hope that our viewers make that decision. I mean, this poor man has been through hell. And it really pains us to have to go into his record, but unfortunately, it could be relevant.

So, guys, tell me in my ear when the pastor is back, and we`ll go to him.

Meantime, just today, we also received Ron Cummings` arrest report for Sarasota County, Florida. Possession of controlled substance, morphine and Xanax, possession of a drug without valid prescription, possession of drug paraphernalia, violation of domestic injunction. Again, all the drug charges dropped.

Pam, you`re the Florida state prosecutor. You`ve analyzed the Sarasota County arrest record. What can you tell me about the drug charges and also this violation of domestic injunction? What does that mean?

PAM COUNTY, PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, Jane, and it`s interesting because, yes, I`ve been reviewing this. and we have a copy right here of the injunction.

He was pulled over on a routine traffic stop. And the police officer noticed some suspicion, brought in a drug dog, and he had all these drugs in his car, on his possession.

Now, also in the report it tells us -- we had known he had this violation -- an injunction. But now we know that he was not to possess firearms. He was not to come within 100 feet of Crystal, who was the petitioner at the time in the injunction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So wait. In plain English, is that like a restraining order?

BONDI: Exactly. That`s exactly what it is. She had a restraining order. And this also mentions that they had minor children together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the pastor. We have Pastor Wright. We`ve been -- we`ve been going through all of this. The friction between the two sides of the family, the problems with Ron. You spoke with them, both sides last night. What were your conversations, sir?

REV. JERRY WRIGHT, CUMMINGS FAMILY PASTOR: Yes. Here`s the situation. With Crystal, the mom, she is obviously very distraught, very upset, just wanting her daughter back. That is for sure.

Obviously, I spoke with Ronald just after that. We spent an hour, hour and a half together. Look, everyone understands that he, as the dad, and Crystal, as the mom, have not had a perfect past. We get that, right? That`s true.

However, they have come to the place at this point in their life where they`re doing things a lot better. Obviously, Ronald is working on a bridge company. He`s trying to do good, trying to make an honest living. And Mom is getting ready to be married again with an honorable guy. And, you know, that`s what`s going on there. But I...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you talk to him about -- and again, this has only come up not to suggest that he has done anything to his daughter. We know that he was at work.

WRIGHT: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But have you talked to him about this speculation that he might have been a drug informant for the cops? Because the cops are refusing to say one way or another. They were asked on Headline News, and they said, "We`re not going to comment."

WRIGHT: You`re correct. He told me absolutely not. He was not an informant for the Putnam County Sheriff`s Office. He was not an informant (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He was not an informant in any way, shape, and form. That`s not saying he didn`t do some things he regrets, but he was not an official informant. That is correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Pastor.

Well, let -- let me know back, then, to Vinny Parco. Let`s assume that he`s absolutely telling the truth. He was not a drug informant for cops. What are the other possibilities, given this drug -- alleged drug history with all these arrests that had no convictions in terms of how it could factor into missing Haleigh? I mean, we have heard about drag deals gone bad, for example, in the past, where a family member is taken in retaliation.

PARCO: I just have got to tell you, Jane, I truly believe that he has done nothing wrong in this respect. I don`t think he violated any code or any operation that might be present within the drug world. I don`t think he`s done any of that. I don`t believe any of that has a bearing on this particular case. He is incredibly distraught and upset. Let me tell you what he said last night.

I spent an hour and a half with him last night. He told me last night -- we were out in the middle of the cold in North Florida. Believe it or not, it does get cold in North Florida. We were out in the middle of North Florida, and he told me this. He said, "Pastor," he said, "I kissed my daughter, went to work, trying to make an honest living, trying to make an honest wage. I came home eight hours later, and she was gone."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Period. End of story. Yes.

PARCO: End of story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much. But it`s not the end of this story.

Stay right there, everyone. So much more to cover in the search for little Haleigh Cummings, now in a second heartbreaking week. Do you think family turmoil was a factor in the disappearance? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. And let me know.

First, here is Haleigh`s dad yesterday, again, begging for his daughter`s return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R. CUMMINGS: I`m here to plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home. I don`t care how she gets here. Just bring her home. And if you`re watching, baby, I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R. CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. We`ve got two officers...

R. CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before y`all do, I`m killing them. I don`t care if I spend the rest of my life in prison. I`m telling you. You can put it on recording. I don`t care.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. It`s OK, sir. We`ve got them on the way. OK. Can you give me -- what kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing?

R. CUMMINGS: I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know. I was at work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Such agony on the part of Ron Cummings, the father of little missing Haleigh. And right now on the phone, we have a woman by the name of Crystal Cummings, who says she is Ron Cummings sister.

And Crystal, you reached out to us. And we called you back, and you are reportedly at the campsite right near the double wide trailer from which little Haleigh was abducted on February 10. Is that correct, ma`am?

CRYSTAL CUMMINGS, SISTER OF RON CUMMINGS: Right now I`m at work. I tried to get a hold of you last night, and I couldn`t. I had to come home to take care of -- I have a daughter myself. And I had to come home and take care of her. But I will be back down there tomorrow. I just wanted to speak on his behalf.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

C. CUMMINGS: Because he was told not to speak to anybody by the detectives.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, speak on his behalf then. There`s so much speculation surrounding his history, and he was confronted with this question, was he ever a drug informant for police.

Again, not to suggest that he did anything with his daughter, but that perhaps somebody might want to retaliate against them. He said no, but others have looked at his record. I mean, we`re talking about high-powered prosecutors have said this seems very indicative of somebody who would have gotten a pass to be an informant.

C. CUMMINGS: Right. It is my understanding that he has had lawyers cover -- cover his case. He was put on probation and successfully completed all of that. It was held for adjudication.

I know that he is not an informant. And not trying to be rude or anything, but for someone to get on the TV and say that is actually putting his life in danger and his other child`s.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you this question. What are your thoughts as to who might have taken little Haleigh? The only reason we`re even discussing this is because we all want to find little Haleigh, and the facts of the case don`t seem to add up.

C. CUMMINGS: Personally, me, I think it was a predator.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

C. CUMMINGS: I mean, I don`t see anybody -- I know he didn`t have any -- anyone that was against him or anything. So, I mean, really -- we -- we`re not getting any more information than you guys are. So I really couldn`t -- I mean, from me, my point of view, I think somebody that had been watching the house and knew when my brother went to work, because he`s only been on the night job for three weeks. So I think somebody -- somebody that knew that he was gone and went in that house and took Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just one last question. Yes or no. Does your brother have any enemies?

C. CUMMINGS: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has he had any fights with people at all?

C. CUMMINGS: No, he hasn`t.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Ron Cummings` sister, Crystal Cummings, I hope you call us back again. And we want to hear from you. We want this to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

And again, it`s nothing that we are getting any pleasure out of discussing, but there are so many bizarre aspects to the family friction that we have to take a look at it, because there are those who feel maybe somewhere in this, like searching for a needle in a haystack, we might find something that can help bring little Haleigh home. I thank you so much for calling, and we all pray that Haleigh is found, found alive and brought back. Thank you.

All right. Let`s talk about this. Haleigh`s has been missing since the early hours of February 10th. The family and police believe that this is an abduction. Is that why there`s an air of fear in this community?

Watch Connie Sheffield, Haleigh`s maternal step-grandmother, talking about her concerns for Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother, R.J., also known as Ron Jr., just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONNIE SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MATERNAL STEP-GRANDMOTHER: I think there`s concerns for R.J.`s safety. People are tired, angry, hurt, and we don`t have any answers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So when you say R.J., you`re talking about Junior, the little boy?

SHEFFIELD: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you have concerns about his safety? Well, that`s a new one. I had not even thought about that. Obviously we`re all looking for little Haleigh. But the implication is that he might not be in safe hands right now?

SHEFFIELD: Not necessarily in reference to whom he`s with, but whoever took Haleigh may target the family again. We don`t know this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re...

SHEFFIELD: I`m concerned for my son myself. He`s 3, and you know, when nightfall comes about in this neighborhood, we left. We wouldn`t even stay for the vigils.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinny Parco, there`s so much fear in this community. Is it time for police to come out and speak and say, "This was eliminated as a suspect. That one is. This one" -- they will not confirm one way or another whether Ron was a drug informant. He says no. But wouldn`t it be helpful? This man is going through hell.

PARCO: Yes, but you know, it`s possible -- maybe he`s not a drug informant, but maybe a drug deal went bad. You know, he`s got a long history of drug abuse. And I`m not accusing him of anything, but you know, it`s possible that he`s involved with some people that retaliated by taking the child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pam Bondi, what`s your...

WRIGHT: Jane, that is absolutely not true. Listen, I was with Ron last night for an hour and a half. That is absolutely not true. He is not in any way involved with people that are going to come and take Junior.

However, he is concerned, because Haleigh was taken far beyond his understanding that that would ever happen, but Junior is not in any danger of being taken. I promise you that -- that Ronald is doing a great job of taking care of his son.

PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I just want to jump in for a minute on this and disagree with Vinny. You know, drug records can be very, very deceptive in the sense that a lot of times, charges are made, and because it was a bad search by the police, the case gets thrown out. Sometimes when they seize the drugs and they test the drugs, they don`t turn out to be the controlled substance the person was charged with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got it.

CALLAN: So it doesn`t mean that he`s an informant.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there. We`re back in just a minute with more of this debate so that we can hopefully help find this beautiful little girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I don`t feel like anybody should have said that, you know? I mean, you don`t know who has my grandchild. We don`t know who has my grandchild. And if it`s somebody who would hurt my grandchild -- you know, if you are that person and you feel like we can identify you, what would be your next move then? You know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: and the phone lines lighting up on this terrible case. Gabby in New York, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Well, I understand that you have a job to do with trying to get to the bottom of this, but it seems to me, comment and question, that you people are vilifying the father when the mother herself has her own arrest record. She`s $4,000 behind in child support. If she was a man, she`d be in jail for that already.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it sounds like you`re vilifying her a little bit. I mean, listen, the facts are the facts. And if we recite them, it - - I would say don`t blame the messenger. This would not be relevant, except that questions have been raised, and we`re trying to answer those questions and then move on.

And I want to ask, Paul Callan, about the mother issue and the fact that reportedly Crystal, Haleigh`s mother, owed $4,000 in back child support. Ron went to get the child support, took legal action, and the paperwork announcing that there would be a March 27 hearing, which has since been canceled, arrived the day before little Haleigh went missing. Just a sad and odd coincidence?

CALLAN: Well, I`m just going to step back and look at it like I think a police officer or a prosecutor would look at it. And they`ve said everybody is a suspect in this case.

And the reality is that this is a possible motive. You know, I`m not saying that it supports charges against her, but certainly the police are going to say there`s a motive here because of the problems and the fight over back child support. So that`s something they`re analyzing. And you know, how it plays out ultimately depends upon all the other facts in the case. But that`s certainly on the table.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pastor Wright, the reason why all of this is coming to a head is because the authorities have not excluded anyone as a suspect. I`ve covered many cases where, as the days and the weeks go by, the authorities will come out and say, "You know what," for example, in a case where a woman is murdered, and always the husband and the boyfriend is looked at first.

When they are cleared, they say that person is no longer -- they`ve been cleared as a suspect. Don`t you think police need to come out now and say something to clear the air, given the fear that has been expressed about children in this community? Everybody is looking at everybody, because nobody has been excluded as a suspect.

WRIGHT: Yes. Let me speak to two things you mentioned. First of all, I`ve been approached by no less than a dozen -- maybe a dozen and a half people over the last week, week and a half that have said, "We have changed our sleeping arrangements based upon this case." In other words, parents have come to me saying the mom is sleeping in the bed with children, the dad is on the couch.

Matter of fact, I had a lady just two nights ago -- catch this -- saying, "I have booby trapped the windows just in case someone is trying to come in and get my child." So that`s going on. So that`s issue one.

But issue two is this. The sheriff`s office cannot come out and make some sort of statement if they don`t have evidence for it.

Now, look, the psychosocial dynamics of our community have really been in upheaval. And that is horrible, because we are a simple community with great people just wanting to live the simple life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We just want to solve this case. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Please come back soon.

Want to know what porn, tumors and Dr. Phil have in common? Octomom. We`ll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news in the Caylee Anthony case: an emergency court hearing was held today ruling that Casey`s parents George and Cindy Anthony will not have to give sworn depositions tomorrow in the Zanny the nanny civil suit. I`ll have the very latest on the legal wrangling.

Plus, the circus surrounding the octo-mom heats up; TMZ reports Nadya Suleman has been offered one million bucks to do a porno. Perhaps going for a more wholesome image Suleman sat down with Dr. Phil today. You won`t believe what she told him.

Breaking news tonight in the Caylee Anthony case -- a stunning turn of events in the Zenaida Gonzales defamation suit against Casey Anthony. You`ll recall that Zenaida is the woman who said Casey ruined her life in an 11th hour emergency hearing.

Today, the lawyer for Casey`s parents, George and Cindy, fought tooth and nail to prevent them from having to testify under oath tomorrow. In a surprise decision, the judge delayed their deposition but just for 20 days; that, to allow their attorney to present evidence of the psychological trauma George and Cindy are suffering.

But is putting off what is perhaps inevitable fair to Zenaida Gonzalez? Zenaida claims her reputation has been destroyed after Casey Anthony linked her name to the case with the now-infamous claim that Zanny the nanny abducted the child. Of course, we say it`s complete nonsense. Zenaida is asking for more than $15,000 in punitive damages.

Joining me now to thrash all of this out: criminal defense attorney Rebecca Woodland; and Steve Helling, staff writer for "People" magazine who has been covering this case from the very beginning.

Steve, the attorney for Cindy and George now has to present evidence of their psychological trauma. The world knows that George apparently tried to commit suicide recently. Isn`t that enough?

STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, it would be enough, but then again, there`s also Cindy who has to be deposed as well. So they`re going to have to go into a little bit on both of them and just what the -- what the doctors have to say about them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why didn`t he bring all that to the hearing today so that instead of having to go back in 20 days and do this all over again we could have gotten some resolution?

HELLING: Well, he bought himself 20 days and that`s really what he was looking for.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Zenaida says her life was ruined -- ruined, when Casey linked her name to an abduction of little Caylee, something cops say is a complete fiction anyway.

Here is Zenaida this past summer before she was comfortable revealing her face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, SUING CASEY ANTHONY FOR DEFAMATION: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name -- because it`s not so much because they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name and everywhere I go they are obviously are insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much on the news.

Plus, I haven`t been able to get a job. I haven`t been able to do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zenaida is asking for more than $15,000 in punitive damages. Rebecca Woodland, what do you need to prove to win punitive damages?

REBECCA WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that she has to prove, Zenaida and her attorney, has to prove that this was reckless beyond negligent. It was reckless. It was intentional. That Caylee Anthony -- that the Anthony`s in general, she may be suing all of the parents, the daughter.

She wants the parents to discuss with the attorneys and at the deposition exactly what happened, where this information -- upon which it was based. Where did anyone come up with her name?

She is saying I went to the Sawgrass apartments once. I don`t know this people, I never had and contact with this child and now. So that`s reckless. Not only was there no interaction and I didn`t take the child, I don`t even know the child.

So they have to prove recklessness beyond negligence for the punitive in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now part of the problem here is that the Anthony family isn`t budging from the story that somebody named Zenaida took little Caylee. Listen to what Brad Conway, George and Cindy`s attorney said back in December.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still think that Zenaida Gonzalez had something to do with this?

BRAD CONOWAY, ANTHONY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

CONWAY: But not the Zenaida Gonzalez that Mr. Morgan represents. And Casey Anthony has made it clear from the beginning that the individual that Mr. Morgan represents is not the Zenaida Gonzalez that she was referring to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Steve Helling, does the fact that the family is basically sticking to the story and saying, well, it`s a different Zenaida, does that impact the civil case?

HELLING: Well, of course it will. But the point is has it affected this specific Zenaida Gonzalez? And she would say the answer is yes. Whether or not she`ll be able to get a jury to award her anything remains to be seen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, now, let me just ask you a follow-up. Lee Anthony is going to do his deposition on Friday, no questions asked. He`s not making a big deal about it. He`s saying basically I don`t know anything and that`s what I`m going to tell them.

So Steve, why are Cindy and George so afraid of having to say whatever it is that they know? Steve? Hello, Steve? Are you there? All right, everybody has just gone silent. That was such a shocking question.

WOODLAND: I hear you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rebecca?

WOODLAND: Yes, I hear you, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You go ahead. You take it.

WOODLAND: The Anthony`s maybe -- their attorneys are claiming -- let`s first say their attorneys are claiming that they are very traumatized by their daughter being in jail and by their granddaughter.

Now, we know the evidence of her remains were found. They are traumatized. What could be is that they are traumatized. They`re not ready to relive it psychologically. Could also be that they are afraid they may remit or somehow release information that should only be released or they feel would be in their best interest to be released in the criminal case, which may help the criminal case or help their daughter.

There may be other issues that we`re not aware of, but their attorney is stating it`s for psychological reasons.

VELEZ-MITHCELL: All right, well listen, we`ve got so much more, of course.

Friday is when Lee does his depo, so we`re going to have an update on that on Friday. Thank you, Steve and Rebecca both for your insights.

And now, octo-drama reaching a fever pitch with Dr. Phil, Oprah, TMZ, Radar Online and various other media outlets all uncovering stunning new information.

Meantime, octo-mom says she`s worried the local hospital won`t let her take eight newborns home. TV`s Dr. Phil tells the L.A. Times today a distressed octo-mom called him on the phone saying she was just all afraid that Kaiser Permanente, the hospital where she gave birth to the octuplets wouldn`t release her eight babies until she proved she can care for them. You think?

And in a separate conversation airing today, she made this shocking admission to the good doctor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL SHOW": I wonder if you have gotten addicted to being pregnant.

NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF THE OCTUPLETS: I loathe pregnancy. I hate it more than anything in the world.

PHIL: But you`ve been pregnant so --

SULEMAN: The only way to have the children is through IVF and it was through the pregnancies. It`s the result, the baby, the child. This pregnancy I could have done without. I actually -- after my third, I looked into adoption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whatever.

Meantime, another bizarre twist: TMZ reports that a notorious pornography producer has made Suleman a $1 million offer for a starring role.

Plus, the latest outrageous accusations by octo-granny during that confrontation with her daughter that was caught on tape by Radar Online.

I`m going to be taking your calls on this in just a moment. But first, my expert panel: Kelly Burning, producer at TMZ; Mary Margaret, senior news editor with Radaronline.com and Dr. Gail Saltz, a clinical psychiatrist and associate professor at New York Presbyterian Hospital.

Dr. Saltz, the babies might soon be healthy enough to leave the hospital. Nadya is afraid the hospital still won`t release them because of all the craziness going on. How might this play out with the hospital and Child Protective Services?

DR. GAIL SALTZ, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, the hospital is under an obligation, really, to -- before they send any mother home to make sure that the mother`s capable or somebody is capable and going to take care of the children adequately, that the environment that they`re going home to is well-supervised and a healthy environment.

And there`s usually a social worker on a case to make sure that this is happening. And certainly in the case where there are so many babies going home, of course they`re going to step in and take a look at that. And if she`s worried, well, I can only assume she`s worried because she`s not necessarily able to prove that.

But that is their responsibility legally and ethically.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it looks like that they`re not going home. They`re, I think, 34 weeks and there`s a possibility if they`re healthy, they might go home at 35 weeks. That`s a week from now. But it looks like unless she can resolve all of these problems those children might remain at the hospital.

Now, the confrontation between octo-mom and her mom, octo-granny, has taken another very, very, very, very weird turn. Listen to this exchange which appears at radaronline.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA SULEMAN, GRANDMOTHER OF 14: You won`t really know in the beginning whether she`s kind of -- I don`t know how to say this. She`s done the other ones, you know, without letting me know and then all of a sudden her stomach is growing bigger and bigger and I say what`s going on and she says, oh, I have a tumor. Yes, right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a tumor. Mary Margaret, senior news editor, Radar Online, you got that. I mean, obviously she didn`t have a tumor. So we`re talking more lies.

Now, remember what Denis Beaudoin, who claimed to be the octo-sperm donor, told ABC`s "Good Morning America". He said Nadya said time was running out and he had to donate his sperm ASAP because she had ovarian cancer.

MARY MARGARET, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR WITH RADARONLINE.COM: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we`re seeing lies here with a pattern to them.

MARGARET: No, that`s definitely something that we found the most interesting in this interaction, was as you said this pattern of deception.

One big question on everyone`s mind is; is she going to have more children and what exactly is her mental state? And from what we can see from this interaction with her and her mom, clearly she`s someone to watch. She`s someone who will say one thing and do another. And that`s a scary and dangerous prospect.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kelly Burning, tell us about the porn angle to all of this.

KELLY BURNING, TMZ PRODUCER: Well, it`s a weird development, but a very large, very big porn company has offered her $1 million to be one of their contract girls, which means she has to actually be in multiple films.

And then in a weirder twist, there`s another porn company that has offered her one year`s worth of diapers not to do the $1 million for porn.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God.

KELLY: So they`re afraid of her ridicule and scorn.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is just too much. We got to get in to all of this. There`s so much more, sit tight. A lot more to sort through in the octo-mom story and I want to hear your take. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll have more on the outrageous octo-mom developments.

But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.

An update on the savage beating of Rihanna: On February 7th, she suffers severe cuts and bruises and was reportedly even bitten. The alleged attacker was her boyfriend, allegedly, fellow pop star Chris Brown. Brown was arrested for making criminal threats against her, but he`s not been charged. Still, he`s now taking anger management classes.

Legally he doesn`t have to take those classes, but reports claim Brown is attending the classes at the behest of his PR guru. After the alleged abuse, brown lost lucrative endorsement deals with Wrigley`s gum and other campaigns. Some stations even stopped playing his songs.

But if he voluntarily goes to anger management classes, that could help fix his image. However, what`s more important is that he learns something from those classes, namely that violence is not a sign of power. It`s a sign that your rage is controlling you.

That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."

Now back with my panel and your calls with more real-life drama in the octo-mom story. Denise, South Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am?

DENISE, SOUTH CAROLINA: Hi.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.

DENISE: I was just wanting to know, if she was getting all those food stamps and stuff with the six children, where was she getting the money to have all of these plastic surgeries and the things to getting her pregnant, the shots and stuff?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an excellent question. And of course, she denies, Kelly Burning, having plastic surgery. But obviously all of these -- these embryo implants are very, very expensive. Didn`t she get some kind of disability thing from an injury?

KELLY BURNING: Yes. I mean, she`s received -- she received a lot of different monies from different places through the government, through taxpayers.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Mary Margaret, she had injured herself on the job several years ago and she got a lump sum payment or pay-out of a pretty substantial amount, didn`t she?

MARY MARGARET, RADAR ONLINE: Right. Yes, she did. Of course, as we know, she set up that website currently where she, you know, is able to get donations and that kind of thing from people who, you know, don`t really necessarily care about her but care more about the well-being of the children. So obviously, she has a very enterprising and entrepreneurial mind.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s one way of putting it. Mary Margaret, you`re an optimist.

Kathy in Ohio, question or thought, ma`am?

CATHY, OHIO: I was wondering, if Nadya proves to be an unfit mother, what will happen to the babies?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dr. Gail Saltz, you`ve sort of outlined a bit, but go through the actually process. They`re in the hospital now. What if the Child Protective Services gets involved? What could be the possible outcomes?

DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIAST: Well, the most likely outcome is that they`d discharge them to foster care. That would be temporary until -- I mean, unless, you know, this proved to be a long-term situation that she was deemed unfit.

And the question is what does unfit mean? Is she really unfit to take care of a child or would she be deemed to be unfit to take care of 14 children? Many people would not be able to provide a healthy environment for 14 babies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who could? I can`t imagine anybody, especially a single mom who doesn`t have a job.

DR. SALTZ: Yes, exactly. And unfortunately, foster care is not a great solution. That`s not an optimal care situation for babies either who really do need to be with a mother, with a consistent parent. They need that bonding. It can be pretty traumatic for a child, quite honestly, to be in a foster care, to move from place to place, and to not be able to be with their mother. They have to weigh that carefully.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My heart goes out to these little tiny, angelic children. Gosh, who knows what they could face in the future.

Peggy in Washington, your question or thought, ma`am?

PEGGY, WASHINGTON: I just am amazed that no one has ever told the parents of Nadya that they`re really enabling her to do all of this. It`s never going to be over.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love that question.

PEGGY: They have to stop enabling her right now or they have to stop when they die, which won`t be too long probably.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you 100 percent. I do believe that octo granny is co-dependent and needs to get some help for that.

DR. SALTZ: Jane, I would just add here that, you know, parents -- they often find themselves in this horrible, tough situation. Do they let their grandchildren, you know, fall along with this child who`s doing this? It`s so conflicted for a parent.

You see this with parents where the child is, you know, involved with alcohol and drugs. At what point do I just step away, tough love, let them fall? And you can see unfortunately the flip side, what enabling can do. And, you know, the terrible future that this is going to predict.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s easy to say, hypothetically, don`t enable her, but when there`s six crying mouths, which there were before she had eight more, what are you going to do? You have to feed these grandchildren of yours.

If you`re outraged at octo-mom, well, guess what. The feeling is mutual. Listen to what she has to say to her critics and how she deflects her mom`s question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA SULEMAN, NADYA SULEMAN`S MOTHER: I mean, is 14 enough?

NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: Well, I don`t have any further embryos. I keep hearing the word responsibility -- this is enough. This isn`t a right. This is a responsibility. I have no choice. I have to delve completely into the role of motherhood.

I have to disagree with anyone who would have the audacity to say that any of these children should be adopted because I have more love for these children than I think -- well almost. I`m sure many parents would have just as much love. But this is something that I find to be really a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mary Margaret, what`s shocking is she doesn`t say absolutely no way, I would never have another child. She doesn`t say it that way.

MARY MARGARET: Right. That`s exactly what Angela`s concern was and echoes the concern of America is this feeling that she actually secretly enjoys the attention, even though she claims it impedes on her life at the same time, obviously she courts it in a way. That is something that, again, we have to watch since this is obviously a woman who seems like she might be imbalanced.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do feel that Dr. Phil hit the nail on the head when he said are you addicted to pregnancy. Even though she says she abhors being pregnant, the fact is there is an addictive component to her behavior. They say one drink isn`t enough, a thousand is too many.

It`s the same thing with her except instead of a drink, it`s a child. And it`s just bizarre. Stick around, more octo-mom drama in just moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you a big fan of Angelina?

N. SULEMAN: No. I`m actually not a fan of anybody. I don`t put people on pedestals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL, HOST, "DR. PHIL" SHOW: If you don`t have the plans in place, you need to say so, so we can help. If you`re saying, "I`ve got it," people are going to say, "Hey, she`s got it."

N. SULEMAN: Not all of it. Not all of it.

DR. PHIL: But you don`t have it, do you?

N. SULEMAN: Not all of it. No. We`re working on it. It`s starting to look a lot more positive.

DR. PHIL: You don`t have the money. You don`t have the manpower, you don`t have the housing. You didn`t have a plan for these children. The plan that you had for the six that you have --

N. SULEMAN: Right.

DR. PHIL: -- is a substandard plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is Dr. Phil holding Nadya Suleman`s feet to the fire and confronting her with very important but tough questions about her lack of planning while she proceeds to have 14 children with no job, while she`s getting food stamps, while three of her kids are disabled and they`re getting disability payments. The list goes on and on.

Mary, what`s so astounding is that this organization called Angels in Waiting has been waiting for her to take them up on her offer to offer round the clock help with these kids. What`s going on?

MARY MARGARET: Right. Radar on line this morning talked exclusively to Gloria Allred who said that Angels in Waiting were ready and waiting to, as you said, offer round the clock care and also actually even give them a home to be in.

As radar online showed today, the standards that they live in right now are definitely substandard as Dr. Phil says. I mean, wall to wall are toys, and clothes are littered everywhere. It`s not a place that you want children to live in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she better take them up on that offer, I think, before the deadline because she knows the hospital may not release. If the hospital knew that Angels in Waiting was waiting there to take the kids, they might release the children. That would be a win-win for everybody, especially for the kids, which is -- they`re the people we care about the most.

Kelly burning, as a producer at TMZ, you are constantly covering these media storms. Have you ever seen anything like this in a case of this nature? We`ve seen media storms with murder trials but nothing like this.

BURNING: I think it started out kind of as sweet, everybody was like, "Octuplets, that`s so sweet." Then it was just like, "Wow, she has six other kids. She doesn`t have a job." So then it turned into kind of like we`re starting to question the fertility drugs, who should get them, brings up a lot of questions.

But, no. She`s the perfect candidate, very willing to talk to the media, loves the attention and she looks like Angelina Jolie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think Angelina Jolie would be too happy about that comparison. She`s one of the most beautiful women in the world.

But we`re out of time. Mary, Kelly, Dr. Saltz, thank you.

I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. You`re watching "ISSUES."

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/25/ijvm.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/26/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Cops Search Dumpster Near Haleigh`s Home

Aired February 26, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Breaking news tonight. Out of Florida, in the desperate search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, at this very moment as we speak, authorities are searching through a construction Dumpster. You`re looking at the live picture right now. Close to Haleigh`s Satsuma home, after a cadaver dog hit on this particular location.

This stunning development as investigators today took the search back to the scene of the crime, Haleigh`s home. Numerous officers plus seven cadaver dogs searched panels under neighborhood homes.

We`ve also learned that late this afternoon, Ron went back to the very trailer home where his little daughter disappeared to talk to investigators inside the trailer. Let`s go straight to the scene of this search.

Joining me by phone is our producer on the ground, Amy Doyle. What exactly are we looking at there? We have a live picture of a Dumpster and numerous people around it.

What is going on, Amy?

AMY DOYLE, CNN HEADLINE NEWS PRODUCER: Well, Jane, basically for the past two hours, investigators have been searching this Dumpster. They constructed the lights so they had better night vision. They are now -- they put out blue tarps about an hour ago. They are now taking piece by piece, trash, possible evidence, whatever, laying it out on -- laying it out on the tarps in front of them and sifting through it.

This has been by far the busiest day in the last week here, beginning with the cadaver search this morning. Investigators have been on scene all day long. We were tipped off by the captain at Putnam. He confirmed that this came in from a hit off of the cadaver dog today.

They are not saying whether it is human remains or animal remains, but there was a hit in this exact location. As of right now, we are standing by for any information coming out of the Putnam County sheriff`s office. Police are searching through this construction Dumpster and seeing what they can sift through.

So right now we are waiting in a holding pattern, trying to find out any more information at this time.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wanted to ask you about the families.

DOYLE: Yes. Both families are alerted and aware, as we are, that they are searching here. I did speak with Crystal Sheffield, mother of 5- year-old Haleigh Cummings, about five minutes ago. She says she was aware of this investigation. She said that they have gotten -- they have not called her with any information or any sign that they have found anything at this location as of yet. But she is on stand-by, waiting at any moment for any information that the sheriff`s office can give her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amy, I understand that the sheriff`s office wanted her DNA sample today. Did they get it? And is it possible that they wanted that DNA sample to match up with DNA that they have located there in the Dumpster or believe they will locate?

DOYLE: She did leave the grounds today around 1:30 this afternoon to go and give a DNA sample. When I talked to Putnam`s captain, Dick Shawlin (ph), he said this is routine, that Ron Cummings, the father of 5-year-old Haleigh, also gave his DNA at the beginning of this investigation. That this is routine. She did offer it willingly. And that it`s just taken a couple of weeks to get her in the office to give that DNA sample.

They have not concluded whether that DNA sample is linked to anything new in this investigation as far as this current search is concerned.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why did they decide to come back here today and search around the home? They said that they weren`t going to do ground searches. They were only going to follow specific leads. Now, at first they had said this wasn`t a search that was based on a lead, but we`ve seen reports that possibly it was a tip-off from a neighbor. What do you know?

DOYLE: All I know from the captain, he said they have not confirmed that this was a tip. They are here directly in result to the cadaver dog finding something here of importance to the investigation. They said as soon as the cadaver dogs made a hit, they put together a team to come down to the ground and search this construction Dumpster.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you are looking at it there. Teams working. Now, their process at this point, I assume, Amy, is going to be removing everything they don`t think is relevant from that Dumpster. Apparently, they`re bringing in another Dumpster to put next to it to put the irrelevant material in a second Dumpster and then find -- who knows what they`re going to find.

But obviously, they are looking for something that could be very tragic in terms of a find. We hope that that is not the case. We pray that this is a false positive and that this cadaver dog didn`t hit on little Haleigh.

But obviously, this is a huge, huge development in the case. And you can just see by the number of people there that this is something that is extraordinarily significant.

What, Amy, is the mood there right now? It must be quite somber.

DOYLE: It is extremely somber. Both camps are retreating to be with their family members at this time. Not one family member is out here on site at the search. They are reconvening with their family. It is very somber.

I was just up with Crystal Sheffield. She`s got a lot -- a huge support system there. I`m assuming Ron Cummings does, as well. There`s probably about 20 to 25 people gathered up at the mother`s camp right now, all praying. They`re starting to light the vigil candles. Everybody is hoping that this is a false positive lead.

However, you know, Crystal said that she`s just waiting, standing by her phone for any kind of tip that the sheriff`s department can give her. Although at this time, she knows as much as we do, Jane. She`s sitting there desperately wanting to know if this has anything to do with the disappearance of her daughter.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Teresa Neves, Ronald`s mom, said she had asked authorities numerous times to search this area and was reportedly told that they had. So why didn`t this come up sooner? Did they search this area but without cadaver dogs?

DOYLE: Well, all we know right now, Jane, is that the cadaver dogs today directly linked to this search that we are seeing right this minute. They started. Investigators were on scene around 5 p.m. They set up the whole scene. They blocked it off, brought in the lights, brought in the tarp, brought in the gloves, and have been picking through piece by piece for the last two hours of anything that`s remotely significant. Trash, trash bags. They are rummaging through whatever they possibly can to see if anything is leading to any tips in Haleigh`s disappearance.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amy, stand by.

Now I want to turn the conversation over to my panel. Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator; Debbie Magids, psychologist; plus Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; and Scott Johnson, reporter with WJXT.

Scott, the question I think that would be an everybody`s mind is, one, are these cadaver dogs human specific or do they just hit on remains that could be human remains or animal remains? Do you know anything specific about these particular cadaver dogs?

SCOTT JOHNSON, REPORTER, WJXT: I have been looking into that. We have heard from one of the people who had a dog out here -- I don`t know if it`s a specific dog that found this, but that person did tell us that these are human-specific cadaver dogs.

But I`ve also heard two stories here. A different person with the investigating agency out here says the dog could have noticed an animal. So it`s really something that we haven`t gotten a clear, concise answer on yet. Could the dog have noticed an animal? Could it have noticed human remains? Could it have noticed a used bandage? That was another thing that was speculated.

So a lot of questions out here as we sit and watch, as you were saying. It`s gone on for around two hours now, as we try and determine what exactly this dog noticed. They say there`s definitely something here, and they will probably be here throughout the night until they found something. We just don`t know what it is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Scott, we`re about 17 days into this search.

JOHNSON: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Have they searched that area before? And if they did, did they use dogs?

JOHNSON: I don`t know if they used dogs. They have definitely searched that area before. Dogs have been out here earlier in the investigation. They brought them back out today, because they say that is standard procedure. It wasn`t on any leads. And then this came up.

I don`t know if they took -- went into this Dumpster specifically, but they have been around this area all over in past days. So if this was something that would have been put in the Dumpster recently or not, we can only speculate. Police will eventually have to answer that question.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Scott, let`s just get, before we go to the rest of our panel, the big picture here. Because this was one of numerous developments. They brought Misty, the girlfriend, who was the last adult to see little Haleigh before her disappearance, in for more questioning. They`ve talked to Ron.

JOHNSON: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They sought a DNA sample from Haleigh`s mom.

JOHNSON: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was a convergence. There was a convergence of activity. So what do you think they knew before they got this hit?

JOHNSON: We don`t know. But it was interesting to see so many things going on. But a lot of these things that I`ve been told prior to the dog - - what the dog noticed were standard protocol. The mom going in for the DNA test is standard. They say they just hadn`t gotten around to bringing her in yet.

They did talk to Ronald Cummings earlier today, investigators did. We don`t know what that conversation consisted of.

But a lot of the things that have gone on up until the dog finding this, I`m told, have been standard protocol. Before this, they said, "We don`t really have any new leads for you." So this has been the first concrete thing I`ve seen in days. We`ll have to wait and see how it pans out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator, we`ve been hearing for days now everyone`s a suspect. They haven`t eliminated anyone as a suspect. We also wondered whether this could be a stranger abduction. What does all of this tell you, not necessarily in terms of an individual, but where this investigation is headed?

STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, Jane, based upon the statistical data that we have, we know that less than one half of 1 percent of actual childhood abductions are non-custodial. So that would indicate that it`s someone that knows the child.

With regard to the dogs hitting on that Dumpster, I spent a number of days at 9/11, as did many thousands of other police officers, behind the cadaver dogs. And my conversations that I had with those dog handlers were very vivid in the nature of that, and they are human remains specific. They are trained to detect human remains and to -- to detect disguises by someone that may be trying to hide the element of a body.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, certainly, we hope and pray that this is a false positive. We all want little Haleigh to come home alive. And there have been examples of false positives.

But, Jayne Weintraub, you`ve done so many cases, and you`re so experienced. You look at this. You think also of little Caylee Anthony, found right near her family home. It seems that there`s a certain predictability or pattern to these cases as they unfold.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you`re absolutely right, Jane. There are.

No. 1, the fact that the dad gave the DNA last week also tells you it is protocol to have DNA. Why? God forbid. It`s called in case there`s an identification of remains that are unidenfiable.

KARDIAN: Yes, Jane...

WEINTRAUB: I hate to say that, but that`s why they ask for it, No. 1.

No. 2, you`ll notice in this case, unlike in the Casey Anthony case, the police have kept everything very close to the vest. We don`t know if there were hair fibers left on the bed. We don`t know if there were fingerprints on the entry. We don`t know if there were footprints on the outside in the mudded area. We don`t know, because it hasn`t been released.

All we can really hope and pray is that it`s an Elizabeth Smart case. She will come safely home. And that`s what we`ll have.

Perhaps the Dumpster hit -- I agree with Steve. It`s usually just live remains hit, but it could be blood on a skin coming off that was bandaged up in an Ace bandage and a gauze piece. Something like that. But it is definitely human blood that the dog is smelling.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re absolutely right. It could be that maybe this child injured herself on the way out and, somehow, that ended up in the Dumpster. Let`s hope.

Everybody, hang tight. Lots of stunning developments to analyze. We will have much more on this breaking news. Cops frantically searching a Dumpster near little Haleigh`s home after cadaver dogs hit on that Dumpster. You`re looking at a live shot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight. Cops search a Dumpster near Haleigh Cummings` home. You`ve been looking at live pictures of the work they are doing right now. I am back with my panel.

And I am also here with a very extraordinary guest, Marie Griffis, Haleigh`s maternal grandmother.

Marie, thank you for joining us. I know this is an extraordinarily difficult time for you. And I just want you to know that our hearts go out to you and your entire family. Our prayers are that this is a false positive and that little Haleigh is OK.

What were you told? I understand the family got some phone calls. Tell us all about that.

MARIE GRIFFIS, HALEIGH`S GRANDMOTHER: My husband had called me. He said he saw it on the news that the cadaver dogs were -- hit on a Dumpster. And it`s showing it right here on HLN right now, that they`ve got all the garbage dug out on the ground. And it`s just -- I don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you get any calls from authorities?

GRIFFIS: No. I haven`t heard from authorities in over a week. They haven`t said -- they haven`t contacted us and said anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Because we had gotten reports, published reports, that the families had received phone calls from authorities. But perhaps the phone calls were from other people who had just heard this watching the news.

Your daughter, the mother of Haleigh, was asked to give a DNA sample today. I`m just curious as to the timing of that. Did that -- did you...

KARDIAN: I`m still here, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... was that scheduled or was that something that might have been because they found something and they wanted to have DNA available to possibly do some kind of match?

GRIFFIS: I don`t really know. Crystal had a doctor`s appointment at 2 today. And they still hadn`t showed up to pick her up or come by and get the sample. So they went to the doctor`s office where she was and retrieved the sample.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marie, do you think this was just a random search that didn`t come from a tip or any inside information on the part of investigators, and they just happened to hit this Dumpster today where the cadaver dog got a positive hit? Or do you think they knew something that drove them back to that trailer?

GRIFFIS: I think as far as using the cadaver dogs that they maybe just -- it`s been over two weeks now since she went missing. I think they just brought the cadaver dogs back in so that they could just check out the area.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re pretty...

GRIFFIS: In case there was something...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re pretty familiar with this area. Have they searched this area where this Dumpster is before? And how far is it from the trailer, your understanding?

GRIFFIS: Well, from what I understand, it`s right back here where the command center was at one time. I`m not for sure. I haven`t climbed up and looked yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I heard something like two-tenths of a mile away from the trailer where little Haleigh disappeared.

GRIFFIS: Huh. Where is the Dumpster at? Yes. Yes. Oh, OK. It`s over by the marina. They`re telling me it`s over by the marina down here. It`s not far from the trailer, if you cut through these yards and stuff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marie, I know your family is involved now in just huddling together and praying. Tell us how you are doing right now emotionally. What are you doing to stay strong emotionally?

GRIFFIS: Praying. Relying on God to give me the strength that I need. Because without him, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t be able to stand and go through this. And -- and the faith that I feel knowing that God has laid it on my heart that Haleigh is fine and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray and hope that you`re right.

GRIFFIS: Yes. I just -- I mean, all I can do is rely on God to return her home to us. And I feel like, you know, that`s what he`s letting me know is that he`s -- he`s sending her back. It`s just going to be in his time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marie, I want to thank you so much for joining us. And again, our hearts go out to you. And stay strong. Thank you very much, Marie.

Let`s get back to my panel. Debbie Magids, psychologist, what is this family going through right now? I can`t even comprehend.

DEBBIE MAGIDS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Jane, it`s probably the most intolerable pain one can experience. You know, when a parent has a child and they experience every pain that child has when they`re missing. There`s no closure. You don`t know what`s happening. You don`t know if your child is suffering. The grief is unbelievable.

And this family is actually doing it right. They`re relying on community. They`re relying on prayer, higher power, to get them through the pain because it really is indescribable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is. Scott Johnson, take us through the day, because there was such a momentous day in terms of a lot of developments. Was it coincidence, do you think, or is there a pattern here that shows that police knew something?

JOHNSON: I can only speculate, but this is the first thing that seems concrete to me. There had been things earlier in the day, such as Crystal Sheffield, the mother, giving a DNA test, which I am told was standard protocol.

They brought out the cadaver dogs earlier in the day. I`m told they were brought out just as another routine check. I do want to point out something I wasn`t sure of earlier. The cadaver dogs have checked this Dumpster before, and they didn`t find anything. So this is a first. They`re back here, and they did find something this time. We only don`t know what that is.

Another thing that came up earlier today was Ronald Cummings, the father, was talking to investigators at the home. We don`t know what that conversation consisted of at this point. Investigators haven`t let that out. But there are a lot of questions about things that went on throughout the day that seem like they were routine checks. This is their first concrete thing to happen that we`ve seen in a while in this investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Scott, thank you so much. Everyone, stay right there. More breaking news in the search for Haleigh Cummings.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight as cops search a Dumpster. You are looking at a live picture of that search near Haleigh Cummings` home. I am back with my panel.

Steve Kardian, how do they go through this Dumpster to find important evidence without destroying something in the process? You see all of these people around this Dumpster. This has got to be very, very detailed and careful work, right?

KARDIAN: Yes, Jane. They`re going to go through, they`re looking specifically for anything that might pop out at them such as the decomposition of a body or a body part. They`re going to secure that evidence as evidence. They`re going to retain anything and everything. They`re going to take it to a secure location, in all likelihood, go through that again and again forensically and look for any additional evidence that may be present.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you account for the fact that cadaver dogs were there before and didn`t hit?

KARDIAN: That`s a hard one, Jane. It`s possible the body wasn`t there. Take a look at the Casey/Caylee Anthony case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know it`s a body yet. And let`s hope. So let`s be careful.

KARDIAN: Right, yes. But take a look at the Casey/Caylee Anthony case and how many times that the body had been moved. So it`s possible that it hadn`t been there prior to today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, in the Caylee Anthony case, we don`t necessarily know that the body had been moved once it got to the scene of the remains. We know that many people had gone there, visited there, called about that location and tried to get the authorities down there to look at that location, including meter reader Roy Kronk. And they never quite got there to find the remains, so Roy Kronk went back several months later and found them himself, which is just -- it`s a stunning, stunning turn of events. And of course, all of this is happening, I think, just about 70 miles away from that tragedy, which is -- is truly extraordinary.

Jane Weintraub, what happens now in terms of what this sheriff`s department says? Are we going to have a long wait as they analyze tiny little pieces of DNA to see if there`s anything here? Or will they undoubtedly have some kind of a news conference and say, "Hey, here`s what we know"?

WEINTRAUB: I hope they don`t, because I think if they have a news conference, it will be saying that they found something that we don`t want to hear about and that it`s part of a body. I hope that they keep going and that they keep finding, you know, more clues, and they return her safely.

What do I really think will happen? They will not say a word. I don`t think that they will release anything. They haven`t yet. They`ve kept it very close to the vest. And they`re avoiding all the pitfalls we saw in Caylee Anthony`s investigation. I do not think they`re going to get up there and say, "We haven`t seen this" or "we haven`t seen that." And I think it would be a mistake to do that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jayne, we`re looking at a live picture of more than half a dozen, almost a dozen people standing around, obviously investigators talking and huddling. What are they talking about right now, would you gather?

WEINTRAUB: I would gather that they`re thinking, where else would something have been thrown away? Where else could a specific specimen -- I, personally, believe, based on my experience that they have a tip, that they have a reason to have gone back with the cadaver dogs again. You don`t go back with cadaver dogs within three days for no reason. You go back there because something was said to you.

And either they found something that they haven`t told us about yet from the house of identification means, or maybe it`s within a very tight perimeter. But they heard something, and now they`re trying to figure out, should they try to talk to somebody again, go re-interview somebody? Or should they just shut it down, bring back what they have, start the lab work?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s interesting. As you were talking, a very, very heated conversation was happening. And of course, we can`t listen in, but you`re very experienced, Jayne. Thank you.

We are staying on top of this. New details flooding in on this desperate search in the Dumpster. We`re going to be back with the very latest from the scene in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are looking at a live picture of a desperate search through a dumpster only two-tenths of a mile from where little Haleigh Cummings lived and where she was abducted from about 17 days ago. A cadaver dog has hit on this dumpster. We all hope and pray that it`s a false positive and that Haleigh is ok somewhere. But obviously from the teams of investigators who have converged on the scene, we know that something extremely momentous has happened.

Amy Doyle, you are our producer on the ground. You`ve been walking around talking to people. What have you learned in the last few minutes?

AMY DOYLE, HLN PRODUCER: In the last few minutes, no family members have still come down here. There`s hustle and bustle as far as news camera crews, helicopters have just arrived on scene. What has been -- what is interesting to notice is I am standing right here in front of this fence.

And I can see the family -- the Ronald Cummings family tent -- and it`s about one football field away from the house where Haleigh was allegedly abducted. I could walk there in about 60 seconds each direction so it`s smack dab in the middle of this investigation.

So investigators have been driving up and down; we`ve seen some sheriff vehicles. But nobody is commenting to the media at this time. Right now it`s being a little bit louder because all the helicopters are starting to come in. This is just the latest developments (INAUDIBLE) Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amy, give us a time line. Because we`re trying to understand how everything was connected today; talking to Misty, talking to Ron. Give us a time line of the key developments throughout the day and what time they occurred.

DOYLE: Absolutely, Jane.

And I was on scene this morning about 10:00 a.m. Around 1:00, Crystal Sheffield was at the family tent. Investigators have been here all day long. This is the first day all week that we`ve seen so much activity.

They`ve been driving in and out of the scene. Around 4:30 this afternoon, I noticed investigators talking to Ronald Cummings out in front of his family tent. At that time, they drove down to the taped-off crime scene. Where moments later, Ronald followed in his truck and met up with investigators at the scene.

Two detectives or two investigators walked into the house at the scene of the crime. Misty was with him. She stayed in the car, remained there. An unidentified man was also in the vehicle with Ronald and Misty. That was about 4:30. They would not comment to the media at that time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And when did the cadaver dogs hit information come out? In other words were they talking to Ron before the cadaver dog hit or after?

DOYLE: Before; about 30 minutes before we noticed some activity behind this fence. Now, Jane, as you can see, this fence, I mean, it is a ten-foot-tall fence. So some investigators got behind that fence before we even noticed that there was any activity.

By the time we got here, though, there were six to eight investigators on scene, taking photographs before they even remotely touched a thing; photographing the entire scene from start to finish, top to bottom, inside, around the ground. At that point is when they first laid down the blue tarp, put on the gloves and started picking through it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you could see the fence at the bottom of the screen. Because at first when you said fence, I wasn`t sure what you were talking about. But you actually see the fencing at the bottom of the scene.

So you`re saying that on this side of the fence is where the tents are that the families have set up and right on the other side of the fence is where this dumpster is. This is extraordinary that it`s all happening in such a close proximity.

DOYLE: Correct. The only way that the actual camera crews can get the shot is to be on top of their vehicles at this time. This fence is extremely tall.

So the activity that we first noticed bustling around was around 5:00 p.m. How long they were actually behind the fence before anybody actually saw, we don`t know at this time.

But there were no sheriff`s vehicles parked in front of the fence at the time when they first started searching.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Amy.

Steve, what do investigators do next? Do they start looking in the area further out? But they`ve already done that. I`m perplexed as to what their next step is going to be.

STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, Jane, they -- the crime scene, the immediate crime scene, is there in the dumpster and it`s going to work outward from there.

And just to clarify something, by all the activity, it may be indicative that they did receive a tip, but it also wouldn`t be uncommon for them to come back, you know, days after this event, more than two weeks, and have this be a recovery search for Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So are we going to have to wait weeks for some kind of DNA testing if they find something that looks suspicious or looks like an article of children`s clothing?

KARDIAN: It`ll take at least that long to obtain DNA evidence and samples from the forensic experts.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, your guess, and just a yes or no answer, do you think they have a theory as to how this case went down? And I don`t want to hear you`re theory but do you think they`re operating on a theory at this point?

KARDIAN: I believe that they are.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

Steve, I agree with you. Thank you so much. And we`re going to check in with Amy in a little bit.

I want to turn now to the legal wrangling going on just about 70 miles away in Orlando, Florida tonight, as Casey Anthony sits behind bars right now, charged with murdering her daughter.

A defamation suit against her is creating a firestorm of controversy. A judge`s ruling gives the attorney for her parents George and Cindy 20 days to prove they are two emotionally distressed to be deposed by attorneys for Zenaida Gonzales, her name of course, forever linked with the infamous Zanny the nanny, the woman Casey insists took Caylee.

Then there is Casey`s brother Lee Anthony, he is set to face a grilling by the Gonzalez camp tomorrow morning. His attorney says Lee has nothing to hide and will be there.

But if the media is there, will that still apply? Zenaida`s lawyers told me there is not much that he can do about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: Well, I can`t stop the media from coming. What I would recommend that they do is to get a protective order from the court to stop the media from coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, the thing is he can do something about it. I`m going to tell you what that is in just a moment.

Meantime, the criminal case against Casey may not be quite the slam dunk prosecutors would have us believe it is. The "Orlando Sentinel" reports it`s still a dog fight to sort through all of this.

My expert panel: William Sheaffer (ph), a criminal defense attorney and legal analyst for WF-TV in Orlando; investigative reporter, Leslie Snadowsky; and Jonathan Kasen, Casey Anthony`s civil attorney.

Jonathan, some people say this defamation suit against your client, Casey, should be moved to after her criminal trial. Why has there been no legal ruling on that issue yet?

JONATHAN KASEN, CASEY ANTHONY`S CIVIL ATTORNEY: Well, good evening, Jane. Good to see you again or good to speak to you again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

KASEN: We had filed a motion probably two months ago, a motion to either stay or defer the civil matter until the resolution of the criminal case. Judge Gonzalez, for whatever the reason, or it should be Judge Rodriguez I apologize -- for whatever the reason denied the request and allowed the lawyers for Zenaida Gonzales to submit written questions in lieu of a deposition.

So I`m not entirely sure why the judge ruled in the way that he did. It seems to me pretty obvious that she can`t answer questions during the pendency (ph) of a criminal investigation and a subsequent trial.

William Sheaffer, you`re a legal analyst. Now, the attorney for Zenaida Gonzales says I can`t stop the media from showing up. Nonsense. As a reporter who has tried to get in to depositions, I`ve had those depositions locations moved on me three times in one day so that they could avoid me getting the shot of the person going in for that deposition.

Couldn`t he just make it a secret location?

WILLIAM SHEAFFER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure they could make it a secret location and under Florida law, however, the press does have the right to be present at the deposition.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s -- that`s fascinating to me. So they can just march in with their cameras and roll videotape while Lee is being interrogated?

SHEAFFER: Absolutely. Again, under Florida Law, they have the right to do that and that`s what all the legal wrangling is about now. And that`s the basis upon which George and Cindy Anthony have said, look, this is too emotional of an experience for us. And, therefore, since the media is going to be there, we shouldn`t be required to, in fact, attend this deposition at this time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Jonathan Kasen, if Lee doesn`t show up because the media is there or if he sees the media and turn on a seals and leaves, which what his attorney says he`s going to do just that, could he be held in contempt?

KASEN: Interesting question. He could be if in fact the judge felt that he was doing something to subvert justice. If the situation where -- if he goes there and feels that he is going there simple to be put up as a sacrificial lamb for Mr. Morgan`s deposition then he has some legal grounds on which to argue to the judge that hey, I was there, I made a good faith basis to be there, a good faith effort to show up, answer questions, and they turned it into a media circus.

I would also add that it`s not entirely accurate that the media just showed up. Mr. Morgan reached out to a number of avenues in the media and asked them to show up. I know that because three different reporters called me and said, "Mr. Morgan is inviting us to the depositions. Do you have a comment on that?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the Anthonys got a reprieve yesterday as we`ve been saying, when the judge gave them almost three weeks to turn over evidence showing they`re two distraught to be grilled under oath.

Here`s what the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez said after that emergency hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEITH MITNIK, ATTORY FOR ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ: We`re going to get these depositions. People are going to have to go under oath. I don`t know why no one wants to go under oath. But we`re going to get them under oath. I`d love it tomorrow but its coming. It`s coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, listen to what Cindy and George`s lawyer had to say about all of this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD CONWAY, ANTHONY FAMILY ATTORNEY: They will answer the questions they need to I think at the right time. And certainly under the right circumstances, that was the main goal here is to avoid a circus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Leslie Snadowsky, it`s more like postponing a circus.

The point is what is the criteria for not showing up at a deposition? Do you have any idea now that you`ve researched this? Can people just say, you know, I`m depressed and distraught and I`m not going to show up because it would be too much? Put me through the emotional ringer.

LESLIE SNADOWSKY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, it sounds that way for Brad Conway. And that`s what he successfully argued and the judge said, ok. I`ll give you 20 days to prove it and the Anthony`s have to come in with essentially a doctor`s note excusing them from the depositions or something that proves that they`re seeking psychological counseling.

And as you mentioned, Lee Anthony -- he`s all set to go tomorrow. But again, one media outlet did reported that if the media shows up for that deposition, Thomas Luka, his attorney, is going to take him and say we`re walking and not do the deposition.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. It`s such a dramatic case. And tomorrow is going to be a huge day. We`re going to have to see how it unfolds.

Jonathan, William, and Leslie, thank you so much.

And we will have an update on the search of that dumpster near Haleigh Cummings` home right after the break.

There, you are looking at a live picture. Cops have been searching that dumpster since a cadaver dog hit on it earlier today. This case is just experiencing stunning developments tonight. And we`re going to tell you all them.

Don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are looking at live pictures from Satsuma, Florida. The search of a dumpster less than a mile away from the home where little Haleigh Cummings disappeared more than two weeks ago. This search entering a crucial phase; it was prompted by an alert given by a cadaver dog just a few hours ago.

I want to check in once again with our producer on the ground, Amy Doyle. Amy, I understand they`ve brought in another dumpster. Tell us about that.

AMY DOYLE, HLN PRODUCER: Correct, Jane. I just climbed on top of a vehicle so I could get a better bird`s eye-view. It appeared to be an empty dumpster. The same size as the construction dumpster they have been searching through. No material has been brought in or put in that as of yet. We`re still waiting.

Right now what you cannot see off camera, to the right about 50 feet over there, there is a clump of investigators just sitting around talking. I can only imagine what they`re talking about at this time.

The new material has been brought in. One thing that`s extremely crucial, Theresa Nevus, the paternal grandmother of little Haleigh Cummings, has just alerted us that the families have been told to stay at their respective places and to not come down here with all of the mayhem going on right now. So they`re sitting right now watching all of this break and are not supposed to be down here. They were told by police authorities they would update them. But they are staying at their camp at this time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marie Griffiths, Crystal -- the mother of little Haleigh`s mother -- so Haleigh`s grandmother told us that she did not get a call from law enforcement telling her or the family about this particular development. But we`d also heard reports that the family did get phone calls informing them of this development. How do you -- how do you -- deal with this discrepancy?

(CROSS TALK)

DOYLE: Moments ago, Theresa Nevus did alert us that they were told to stay at their respective places right now and to not come down here with all of the activity that is going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think when they brought Ron in to the trailer they were telling him about this? Or was it too early? Was the cadaver dog hit after they were talking to Ron? I understand you said it was, but it just seems like there`s too much coincidence.

There`s too much that happened today. Re-interviewing misty, bringing Ron to the trailer, getting the DNA sample, doing the ground search, and all of this happening in the same area; they`ve talked to Ron many times. They didn`t talk to him in the trailer before.

DOYLE: Jane, I have not witnessed them talking to Ron in the trailer before today. Although I have been here a week, that`s the first time I`ve seen that happen. Although I have seen investigators briefing Ron Cummings and his family on a daily basis; they seem to have a very good relationship as far as maintaining updates.

When I spoke to the lead investigator, John Merchant (ph) he told me that he`s been giving daily updates to Ronald Cummings -- both sides of the families -- but making sure that everybody is up to speed on where they are in the investigation as of date.

Now, with the fence so tall, those investigators could have been here earlier and nobody paid attention because they were guarded by this fence. Nobody was alerted because there was sheriff`s people out here. What might have happened is they were on the other side of the fence. Of course, the media has been kept on the other side of the fence.

But they could have been investigating --

(CROSS TALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Amy, we`re going to check in with you once again a little bit later, but you can see a heated discussion going on right now; a lot of huddling with the investigators. Very significant talk, I am sure.

Amy, thank you so much.

We will be keeping a very close eye on this search; we`re going to bring you any news as it breaks.

Now to the latest from Nadya Suleman: tonight, octo-mom fighting back, but Dr. Phil pulled no punches during part two of his interview with this mother of 14.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL SHOW": Do you acknowledge that that choice was wrong?

NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: I do. I do.

DR. PHIL: Ok. I mean, that`s huge for me. I think it`s huge for people in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Today also marks the deadline for octo-mom to accept a generous offer from the Angels in Waiting Foundation. The California- based group offered the mother of 14 free housing, counseling, medical services for at least six months.

As the deadline looms, another group has emerged to help out octo-mom. Just who are these mystery women? We`re going to find out in just a second.

Meanwhile, octo-mom`s quest for a home for her family continues as do her fears that her eight babies won`t be released from the hospital. Is her house up to snuff? You be the judge when we give you a videotaped inside look at octo-mom`s house. And I`m going to be taking your calls in a bit.

But first, my expert panel: Mary Margaret from radar.com, back with us; psychologist Debbie Magids; and host of "Showbiz Tonight" A.J. Hammer. Thanks, guys. We`ve had a lot of breaking news tonight so thank you for your patience.

A.J., as all the new video of Nadya Suleman pours in, does she give new meaning to the term overexposed if she has any hopes of making an entertainment deal in the future?

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Yes. I mean, this is one of the things that we`re going to be talking about on "Showbiz Tonight." Is it working for her or against her, the fact that she is going on so many shows and talking about what`s going on?

Going on Dr. Phil, it may have been an opportunity for her to set the record straight. But in my mind, Jane, what she really needs to do is spend less time worrying about what other people think of her and maybe more time focusing on what she`s going to do for these eight babies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.

Mary Margaret, you were the ones who scooped everybody getting an inside look, videotape look inside the Suleman home. And I watched that video clip on radaronline. And it -- it did seem to me that yes, it was messy, but I wouldn`t say it was slovenly.

And one thing I noticed is that the kids -- there you see one of them -- they seemed very happy. The older children did seem happy and well balanced.

Your thoughts?

MARY MARGARET, RADAR ONLINE: Well, of course, the house is obviously appropriate for the family size that they had before the octuplets. She mentioned that there`s a very large backyard where the kids can roam free and there`s a lot of love in this household.

But again, there`s eight more children and even though it`s not slovenly, at the same time, it is messy. There is chaos, there is disorder and you just can`t bring eight more babies into that household.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Phil made a great point when he said you should never have a child to fill a void within yourself. Given her whole complaint about being an only child, isn`t that precisely what she`s done?

MARY MARGARET: Yes. Exactly -- sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Well, guess what? I`m going to answer that question myself because we`re just about of time. Yes, that is precisely what she has done.

Stay right there everyone. We`re going to be back in just a minute with more on octo-mom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are looking at a live picture from Satsuma, Florida. It is day 17 since precious little Haleigh Cummings disappeared in the middle of the night from her double wide trailer. And this afternoon, momentous developments as a cadaver dog hit on a dumpster.

You`re looking at the dumpster right there to the left and they`re setting up a new dumpster on the right to take the refuse that is not relevant from the dumpster where the cadaver dog hit and put it in the second dumpster so that they can analyze all of this evidence. The question is, was it really little Haleigh? Or was it a false positive?

The families, both sides of little Haleigh`s family, huddling and praying right now staying away from this area. They were told don`t come down because the emotions are so high at this moment, these investigators have some very grueling, very tough, really unpleasant heart-wrenching work to do right now and they`re very focused. Again, the big question is, is it Haleigh? And we pray that it`s not.

We will stay on top of this story, obviously, and we`ll cover it tomorrow as well here on "ISSUES."

All right. We`re back with the other big news of the day and that is the octo-mom drama.

A.J. Hammer, could next week be a huge week in that when infants reach 35 weeks they can sometimes leave the hospital if they`re healthy enough and they`re reportedly going to hit that 35-week point next week.

HAMMER: Yes. It will be a big week, but everyone is waiting to see what the hospital says because apparently before the hospital is willing to release the infants they want to have a good look inside Nadya Suleman`s home and see if it`s okay. If everything is set; if it`s good and we`ve seen some of those photographs inside the house, it may not be ready.

And Jane, I`m still trying to figure out what kind of a vehicle is she going to get? That`s how Detroit can turn the car industry around. Come up with the right car for the 14 kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s a bus is what she`s looking for.

HAMMER: At least.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mary Margaret, in terms of all the videos and the interviews that you`ve done with this family, what strikes you as the most bizarre? We understand that now there`s a new group of women who are offering to help Nadya Suleman, a mystery group from the school?

MARY MARGARET: I think, you know, your first question would strike me as most bizarre and I think we discussed in the past few days and you brought it up, Jane, a day or two ago is the difference between her perceived reality and what actually is reality. In her mind she has enough resources. She`s going to be enterprising enough to accumulate the resources to take care of 14 children on her own when in reality that`s not true.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s it. Got to go. Thanks for joining us tonight.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/26/ijvm.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/26/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE

Cadaver Dogs Added to Search for Haleigh

Aired February 26, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Bombshell tonight. Multiple teams of dogs, dogs specially trained to find human remains, spend the entire day re-searching dense woods around the home where little Haleigh disappears. Specialized cadaver K-9s brought in to join the search for Haleigh, this at least the third time the same area is searched, but now again with cadaver dogs. Why now? What do police know?

As dogs continue to search, the family, desperate to find their little girl, releases new home video, hoping to spark tips to find Haleigh. And while members of little Haleigh`s immediate and extended family have taken multiple polygraphs and stated they passed, lead investigators say no one - - repeat, no one -- has been cleared.

We confirm the girlfriend/baby-sitter with Haleigh the night she disappears back today for police questioning. It goes on for hours, this at least the fourth time Misty Croslin has been interrogated. Police sifting through over 2,000 tips, but can Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother ID the kidnapper? The boy, ostensibly sleeping with his sister when she`s snatched, describing a grown man taking Haleigh in the middle of the night, a man dressed entirely in black.

And what about the mystery vehicle seized for evidence? Investigators still not divulging the make, model or ownership. As local police refuse to scale back the search and DNA is taken from the bio mom, tonight, where is 5-year-old Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings, who police believe was kidnapped from her own bed. Authorities, including cadaver dogs, are out searching near Haleigh`s home today for any clues into the child`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our main focus is finding Haleigh Cummings and getting her home to her family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they`re continuing to follow up on the nearly 2,000 leads that have come in so far. That includes the four Haleigh sightings that investigators say have all turned out to be false.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While the search goes on, Putnam County officers are once again interviewing 17-year-old girlfriend Misty Croslin. Croslin, who was sleeping in the same room as Haleigh, was the last person to see the child before she was taken in the middle of the night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want everybody to know that I didn`t do anything to that little girl! I loved her like she`s my own, and I`ll do anything to get her back!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, Haleigh`s family released home video showing little Haleigh opening Christmas presents. The family hopes this new video may trigger the tip that could lead them towards finding Haleigh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she hears this, Haleigh, I love you and I miss you. And we will bring you home, and I will be right here waiting on you when you get home. I love you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a 14-year-old California girl on her way to school 7:00 AM vanishes into thin air -- a model student, loves to read, excited about purchasing a little lamb for Future Farmers of America. Police combing cell phone records, text messages just moments before the 14-year-old disappears without a trace.

Bombshell tonight. Is a dangerous Friday the 13th prank behind Amber`s disappearance? Her family and their PI piecing together the puzzle as best they can. And a new, disturbing theory emerges involving three recent kidnapping incidents near where Amber goes missing. Are they related? Amber`s mother and father both with us, asking for your help. Tonight, where is 14-year-old Amber Dubois?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she was abducted and kidnapped, she can be anywhere. Anywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: California authorities are desperately searching for clues in the case of 14-year-old Amber Dubois, last seen the day before Valentine`s Day. A private investigator hired by the family says that Amber may have been the target of a cruel prank. PI Bill Garcia (ph) says because the day Amber went missing was Friday the 13th, it`s possible that either someone that knew Amber or knew of Amber may have targeted her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have a relationship like our family has - - we`re very, very close -- you know, she`s not the type of girl to run away and then not come back to face the music, you know? She has no reason to run away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Garcia has still not ruled out the theory of Amber being abducted by strangers, while the family holds out hope that any new tip could help find Amber.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I go to bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here. And she`s not!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, multiple teams of dogs specially trained to find human remains spend the entire day re-searching dense woods surrounding the home where little Haleigh disappears. Specialized K-9s brought in to join the search for Haleigh, this at least the third time the same area searched, but now again with cadaver dogs. Why now? What do police know?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 2,000 tips have been received in the case of 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, who police say was abducted in the middle of the night. Law enforcement officials, as well as cadaver dogs, are out searching the area around the home where Haleigh was taken today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have now received more than 2,000 tips, and at least four have been sightings of girls who look like Haleigh. The sightings have been reported in Tennessee, St. Augustine, Colorado and Indiana. But deputies say, and family members agree, it is not their little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, the 17-year-old girlfriend of Haleigh`s father, Misty Croslin, is being questioned by police again. Croslin says she woke up in the middle of the night on February 11th and Haleigh was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you take a polygraph?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did. But I`m not supposed to talk about that. They told me not talk about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you did...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did take a polygraph.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you passed it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My understanding is that I passed it, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family, hoping to trigger more tips, just released home video of Haleigh opening presents Christmas morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve got to believe that that baby`s alive somewhere. I mean, if you lose that, you`ve got nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family is still in tents, praying for their little girl`s safe return, while the reward for information leading to Haleigh`s recovery has now reached over $25,000.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: I`m here to plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home.

Please bring my daughter home. And if you`re watching, I love you. That`s it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by at the crime scene where police are searching. Marlaina, cadaver dogs specially trained to find human remains shipped in from out of the jurisdiction -- they`ve been searching the entire day. Again they`re near Haleigh`s home. Explain.

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. They had seven cadaver dogs searching today. They had multiple teams from counties in the surrounding area. And they also brought in dogs from Georgia. They are searching tomorrow. They went up and down the street. They are still behind us right now. The search is not over.

They`ve also brought in a boat just in case dogs led them to the water and divers would have to go in. They`ve since taken the boat away, but they are bringing in more dogs, and the search is not over, Nancy.

GRACE: You are seeing video from just hours ago, the search going on into the late, late afternoon. There you see specially trained human cadaver dogs. Marlaina, repeat what you said about the water?

SCHIAVO: Well, they brought in a boat because there`s a lot of water in the surrounding area, and just in case any of the dogs led to this water, they wanted to have a boat ready so that they could re-search the water. Right now, there is no water search. Right now, they`re just sticking to the dogs, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now here in studio, Tracy Sargent and Cinco. He is a human remains detection dog, highly trained in the discovery of human remains, cadaver dogs, as they`re commonly known. Tracy, explain to me, are cadaver dogs able to find bodies, human bodies, even under water?

TRACY SARGENT, K-9 HANDLER: Yes. Dogs working in the water is actually easy for them. The reason being is because the dogs always work with scent, and scent rises to the surface of the water. So dogs searching for people under water is actually an easy thing for them to detect.

GRACE: So that`s easy for a cadaver dog to find someone under water? I didn`t know that.

SARGENT: Yes, ma`am. What makes it challenging for water recovery is the idea of the dogs may be responding to scent in one area, but based upon the currents and wind conditions, the body may be located in another location. So that`s the challenge with water recovery.

GRACE: Tracy, I understand you have a demonstration with Cinco?

SARGENT: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Go ahead. And explain to the viewers as you`re doing it.

SARGENT: What we`re going to do is go ahead and show the viewers what we call a training aid. It essentially smells like a deceased person. And we`re going to hide this for the dog. Now, the dogs work really well for things that we can`t see or smell ourselves, so that`s the reason why we use detection dogs. So we`re going to show how Cinco tells us that there`s something there.

Hunt!

OK, so what he`s showing us is by his, what we call, trained alert, which is a sit, in this instance, he`s telling us there`s human remains scent in this location. Then what we do is we reward him and tell him he`s done a good job. So he`s done the job that we`ve asked him to do. At that point in time, if this was the real thing, we would investigate the area and see what exactly he is responding to. It could be evidence, it could be human body parts, it could be an actual body.

GRACE: And when she says evidence, everyone, that could be referring to Haleigh`s clothing. It could be referring to shoes, something she had with her. But remember, these dogs hit only on human remains. They are not bloodhounds, isn`t that right, Tracy? They`re not looking for a live human.

SARGENT: Yes, ma`am. That is correct. There is a big difference. It`s interesting with dogs is that when we`re alive, we smell totally different to dogs. Each person has an individual scent. But when we die, each person smells exactly the same. So regardless if it`s a child or an old person, to a dog, finding human remains, they smell the same. So we don`t have to have a person`s clothing for them to search for a deceased person.

GRACE: Right. You are seeing, everyone, K-9s that were brought out today there at Haleigh`s home, where she disappeared. And earlier, you were seeing just-released home video of little Haleigh. We understand the girlfriend/baby-sitter has been in police interrogations for nearly three hours today. Plus a Haleigh sighting across the country in Indiana.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s one of them children who fills up a home with smiles and laughter. And you just couldn`t be in there without her!

CUMMINGS: I know somebody took my little girl! Somebody stole my child out of my bed.

This is my heart. And somebody stole my heart from me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is -- basically, getting to be more than he can bear. I mean, he stood up to all the scaredness of, you know, being afraid and tired and not eating right and everything, and it`s -- it`s wearing him down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What`s her date of birth?

CUMMINGS: Y`all are (DELETED) playing games, man! I`m going to (DELETED) kill somebody!

911 OPERATOR: OK, tell him we understand. We need to get her date of birth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s her date of birth?

CUMMINGS: (DELETED) her birthday! We need to find her! (DELETED) her date of birth!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Specially trained human cadaver dogs searching the area around little Haleigh`s home. Hours were spent going through the dense woods surrounding the home. You are seeing newly-released video of little Haleigh released by her family just hours ago in the hopes that this would spur tips. Where is Haleigh?

Also, we learn that the bio mom was asked to give DNA. That`s right, Crystal Sheffield gives DNA to police today. Also, the girlfriend/baby- sitter, Misty Croslin, there in the home, ostensibly asleep when little Haleigh is snatched, re-questioned, re-interrogated for nearly three hours today at police headquarters.

Straight out to T.J. Hart with WSKY. First I want to hear about this sighting, this alleged Haleigh sighting in Indiana.

T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3 FM: Very much so. We got word that a truck driver spotted what he thought was missing Haleigh. He reportedly took a picture from his cell phone, and then sent it on to a friend. In this case, it was Marie Griffis. Couldn`t make out heads or tails whether or not it was Haleigh. They took it to a local television station to try to enhance the picture, and it was determined that this once again was not Haleigh. At this time, we`d still like to see that picture and get another shot of that, but we`re in the course of getting that taken care of, but once again, it turned out to be a -- just a dead end at this point.

GRACE: T.J., how many sightings have there been of Haleigh?

HART: Several, according to Captain Dick Showland (ph) with the Putnam County sheriff`s office. Just the other day, we had a sighting in a shopping area in Grand Junction, Colorado, which turned out to be inaccurate. And we`ve had a couple (INAUDIBLE) as well, in St. Louis, I believe, and also in St. Augustine, inconclusive.

GRACE: You know what? God bless him. God bless the truck driver who cared enough to take a cell phone photo, thinking he was getting a shot of little Haleigh. This is going to take more than just a police department to crack this case.

You are seeing just-released home video of Christmas morning, little Haleigh opening up presents, her family releasing this video in the hope it will jog someone`s memory and spur tips to find the 5-year-old little girl.

Straight back out to Marlaina Schiavo. Marlaina, what can you tell me about the biological mother giving DNA today, Crystal Sheffield?

SCHIAVO: Well, we spoke to Crystal very briefly today, and while we were talking to her, she was getting in the her car. She was on her way to an appointment. And right when she left, someone came from Jacksonville to take a DNA sample. And right before Crystal had left, actually, she said, Let them know I`m at an appointment. So she knew that they were on their way and they wanted a DNA sample. They weren`t going to wait for her. They actually drove off, and they said they would meet her wherever she was. Whether or not they actually got the sample, we`re still waiting to hear, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, you know -- out to Dr. Joshua Perper, renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner, Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, it`s a very simple process to get a buccal swab, an oral swab in the mouth, for DNA, right?

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Absolutely. Just a swab and it`s not painful to the individual and it`s easy to take, right.

GRACE: So you know, it`s less than a minute. Don`t you use one of those long Q-tips and just swab the inside of your mouth like you`re using a toothbrush?

PERPER: That`s about it. It`s a very simple procedure, and as I said, it doesn`t cause any discomfort.

GRACE: None whatsoever. Dr. Perper joining us out of the Miami jurisdiction today.

To Matt Zarrell, who`s been on the case from the very beginning. Matt, what can you tell me about the girlfriend/baby-sitter taken in for police questioning again today? How many times has she been questioned?

MATTHEW ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, we believe it`s been at least three or four times. We know last week, she was questioned. She was questioned initially...

GRACE: Well, Matt, last week, you told me it was three times last week. So that means it`s four times this week that we know of, correct?

ZARRELL: Yes. That`s correct.

GRACE: And it was regarding?

ZARRELL: It was regarding more questioning about similar transactions. They`ve been talking to her and asking similar questions each time. We know she`s been there. She was gone for about three hours and has returned now from meeting with investigators.

GRACE: Everyone, we are joining -- we are being joined right now by the grandmother of little Haleigh. She has been part of the search from the very beginning. When we come back, we`ll be questioning her about the latest search there at the home. Also, we`ll unleash the lawyers.

But as we go to break, outrage! A man who brutally tortured and raped a 24-year-old pregnant co-ed, Elizabeth Gillies, for hours before killing her is set for release from prison, the Mississippi parole board voting to parole Douglas Hodgkin, 43, convicted in `87 of murdering Gillies and her unborn child. This convicted rapist soon walking the street free again, a convicted killer and rapist. What was the Mississippi parole board thinking?

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I stood there for about 30 minutes with her holding me, not wanting me to leave. And it hurts. And now I haven`t seen her in four weeks, and it hurts even worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like my granddaughter is alive. I have faith that God will bring my baby home. And if you give up that hope and that faith, then you really have nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Right now, cadaver dogs are leaving the area after spending the entire day searching around the home where little Haleigh went missing. Now, that area has been searched, we know of, three times before. Why now? Why with cadaver dogs? What do police know? This as a sighting allegedly occurs in Indiana by a local trucker. He takes a photo with his cell phone.

Out to Teresa Neves, the paternal grandmother of Haleigh. Ms. Neves, thank you for being with us. I know the family is completely strung out at this time. I understand police are speaking to Ronald, your son.

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Right now?

GRACE: Today. Yes. Have they spoken to him?

NEVES: We spoke with them earlier. They were -- they were warning us in advance that the dogs would be here.

GRACE: Right. Right. Did they give you any idea, Ms. Neves, as to why they`re re-searching the same area with cadaver dogs?

NEVES: No, ma`am. They just said it was critical. Basically, we have to trust those detectives to know what they`re doing and let them do their job. I don`t feel like they`re going to find my Haleigh out there and so...

GRACE: Why do you say that?

NEVES: Because I have to keep the hope and the faith that my Haleigh is alive.

GRACE: We are showing the viewers the video of little Haleigh at Christmas. She`s been opening up a purple hat and putting it on.

Ms. Neves, tell me about Haleigh. We`ve talked about her a million times, but it`s always about the night she went missing, the circumstances around her disappearance, her illness, Turner syndrome. Tell me about her as a little girl.

NEVES: Oh, she`s a precious little girl. She`s very petite and tiny. She has a beautiful little voice. She likes to sing. She loves to put on make-up. She loves to put make-up on everybody else. I`ve looked like a clown at least a million times. She loves nail polish. She`s just a typical little girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While the search goes on, Putnam County officers are once again interviewing 17-year-old girlfriend Misty Croslin. Croslin who was sleeping in the same room as Haleigh was the last person to see the child before she was taken in the middle of the night.

TERESA NEVES, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I trust the detectives to do their job, and as far as Misty is concerned I know that she loved my grandchildren and they loved her dearly. You know, I mean, I don`t think you`ll find anybody who won`t say that those grandchildren didn`t love her just like a mom.

MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMING`S GIRLFRIEND, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: I just want everybody to know that I didn`t know anything to that little girl. I loved her like she`s my own and I`ll do anything to get her back, and if people think that I have something to do with it, if I have something to do with it, I knew where she was, we wouldn`t be sitting here today. We would have her and I don`t, and I don`t know where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello?

911 DISPATCHER: OK, sir, let me talk to you wife. Let me get some information from her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man. (INAUDIBLE)

911 DISPATCHER: OK. Can I talk to her?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

911 DISPATCHER: OK, listen to me. I need you to answer some questions. Does the door look like it was pried open?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Um.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Straight back to paternal grandmother, Teresa Neves, joining us there at the home where little Haleigh went missing.

Miss Neves, I was just watching Misty Croslin with tears in her eyes. There`s something very believable about what she says. Look, I know she`s had some inconsistencies in her story, but a lot of that was explained away regarding was she in the bed with the little girl. No, the little girl was in the bed beside her, but in the same room.

About the little pink t-shirt. Misty Croslin is the one that reported her gone in the pink t-shirt, but then saw the t-shirt and showed it to police. That`s not entirely inconsistent.

NEVES: No, ma`am. I believe.

GRACE: Tell me.

NEVES: I believe.

GRACE: Tell me about the birthmark on Haleigh`s cheek. Let`s see if we can get a picture, Rosie, that shows that even faintly. There it is if you look down towards the bottom. Explain where her birthmark is, Miss Neves.

NEVES: It`s a little tiny -- I don`t know, almost like a peanut shape on the left side of her face.

GRACE: You`re seeing that up beside her ear.

I want to go out to the lawyers. Mickey Sherman, high-profile defense attorney joining us out of New York, and veteran defense attorney, former prosecutor, Peter Odom, joining us out of Atlanta.

To Mickey Sherman, this is now, we believe, the fourth time Croslin has been interrogated by police. Should she lawyer up?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": You know, she probably should. Without a doubt. But I think it speaks volumes that she apparently hasn`t, that she has been submitted to two polygraph tests and apparently passed them and doing what the grandma just said that she believes in her character and also the way we just saw her present herself.

She`d have to be a pretty darn good actress to carry that off. So she`s the most logical suspect, but she seems to be doing OK by herself so far.

GRACE: You know, Peter, he`s right. She is the most logical suspect. The father and the mother, because typically in child disappearances or child homicides, the family is responsible. That`s just the harsh reality. I don`t like it, but that`s the truth. But it`s hard for me to believe a 17-year-old girl can pull a hoax over on police for this long.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the fact -- I agree with you, frankly, that she seems very candid, she seems very believable, but the fact that the police have been talking to her repeatedly, the fact that they have asked her many of the same questions over and over again, may be an indication they`re looking for inconsistencies and she probably needs to get a lawyer.

GRACE: Back to grandmother Teresa Neves. I have not seen your son Ron on air making public pleas regarding Haleigh`s disappearance in many, many days. Why?

NEVES: Ron was actually out, I believe, it was the day before yesterday at 1:00 press conference.

GRACE: Good.

NEVES: . to make a plea for Haleigh. He, basically -- he`s pretty much taken all he can take, you know? I mean.

GRACE: You know to.

NEVES: . it`s hard enough to lose your daughter and then people beat on you and badger you on top of it.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers," she`s right. He and the girlfriend have taken quite the beating even though they`ve been cooperating with police. You know, maybe I`m wrong, but every time I`ve heard the girlfriend speak she seems relatively free of guile.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think she`s free of guile. I think she`s innocent. I think it`s easy to throw stones at the family because we don`t know much about the broader picture, but it`s also easy to kind of confuse if there was some family dysfunction that contributed to this and to try to distinguish that from the fact that that doesn`t mean she was the perpetrator.

Like let`s say, perhaps she didn`t have a key or wasn`t allowed to have one, maybe she did go out that night. Maybe she propped the door open with the cinder block so she could have a way back in. Maybe she talked to someone in the neighborhood who knew she wasn`t at home and that contributed, and if that`s the case I`m sure she`s come clean at this point.

She`s just a 17-year-old girl, but that is quite different from whether or not she`s the perpetrator or had any malice towards this child. Someone came in and took little Haleigh and the sad fact is that when a child is abducted and a part of a sexual homicide abduction, the body is usually dumped within three blocks of the home.

That`s what we saw with Caylee Anthony, and I`m sure that`s why they have the cadaver dogs out searching at this point.

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. He is also a crime victim. His daughter Polly was kidnapped from her home many years ago and murdered.

Marc Klaas, a tireless victim`s advocate since that time. Marc, another thing about lie detectors and I -- I just can`t say this enough, when Polly was kidnapped you go to police, you did, and said, quick, polygraph me right now so you can clear me and go on to look for my daughter.

You know, someone can lie on a polygraph about one issue like, were you drinking that night? Were you -- did you smoke pot that night? Did you take medication? Did you leave the back door open that night? And the person thinking of getting in trouble can lie about a tangential or collateral issue and flunk the polygraph.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I -- I don`t know. All I know that I took a polygraph and I passed it. I think one other thing that people have to understand about Misty is that she`s ground zero on this issue and she was the person that was the last one to see the little girl.

The little girl was in her care. There appear to have been inconsistencies in her story, therefore law enforcement does have to continually ask her questions so more information will emerge. Was there a man in black? Did she see him? Perhaps. Was there a pedophile cousin in Tennessee that was there and then left shortly thereafter?

Well, that`s something that seemed to emerge a little bit later as well. But also, I think that Dr. Marshall was exactly right about the cadaver dogs being in their neighborhood. Remember, Jessica Lunsford and Caylee Anthony were both found within several hundred yards of their homes and then finally, I think that people have to understand that I thank you so much for talking about the truckers.

You know, America`s truckers are unheralded and unsung heroes in the fight for missing children and they`ve got a long and storied relationship with this issue. There are more than two million long-haul truckers on the highways of America on a given day and they are in constant communication with each other.

So this is a force that can probably do much more than they already do, but already they`re a great ally for our cause.

GRACE: You know, they really are. How many times have you seen a truck go by with a missing child`s.

KLAAS: Yes.

GRACE: . picture on that truck? So you`re absolutely right again, Marc Klaas.

I want to go back to our special guest, Tracy Sergeant and Cinco, who`s joining us, a cadaver dog, human remains detection dog. I understand you have with you part of a human rib? Please, go ahead.

TRACY SERGEANT, DOG TRAINER: Yes, ma`am. We`re going to show you a demo. It`s important to understand that the body goes through different phases of decomposition and the dogs need to be trained in those different phases. So earlier we showed you how a dog will find somebody, let`s say the smell the flesh. In this case we`re going to show you how he will locate bone.

GRACE: OK.

SERGEANT: Again, I`ll give him the command to search for it. Cinco, hunt. Again, he will respond just as he did before, in this case, a trained alert. So I will give him the ball and reward him and again, we`ll investigate what he has searched.

GRACE: Cadaver dogs, the entire day outside the home of little Haleigh where she went missing.

As we go to break happy birthday to hair and makeup superstar Jill Devito. She`s a cover girl herself. Happy birthday, Jill. You`re finally 21. And happy birthday, 74, to a friend of the show Jimmy Johnson. Happy birthday, Jimmy, Fayetteville, Georgia. Isn`t he handsome?

And a very special happy birthday to Sam. A junior at Georgia Southern University majoring in biology, minor computers, holds down a job and knows how to cook. There he is on the right. He`s a handsome fellow. Happy birthday, Sammy.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GARCIA, CALIFORNIA LICENSES P.I., HELPING FAMILY IN SEARCH FOR MISSING TEEN, AMBER DUBOIS: I don`t think she`s a runaway. She had too many things planned. There was nothing taken from the home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are looking for answers in the mystery surrounding what happened to 14-year-old Amber Dubois. Amber was headed to school the day before Valentine`s Day but hasn`t been seen since. Two family members claimed they saw Amber only 300 yards from school that morning, but the school says Amber never showed up to class.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family came forward immediately and volunteered to be polygraphed. The entire family has been cleared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now a private investigator hired by the family has new fears about what may have happened to Amber. P.I. Bill Garcia says it`s possible being that it was Friday the 13th that Amber was the target of a cruel prank. While Garcia still believes it`s more likely Amber was abducted by strangers, the family is desperate for answers, hoping for Amber`s safe return.

MAURICE DUBOIS, FATHER OF MISSING 14-YR-OLD, AMBER DUBOIS: She was in a great mood. We went out after the movies. Went out and fed the ducks at the park, like we typically do, me, her and my niece. She was in great spirits.

GRACE: Mr. Dubois, what are police telling you?

DUBOIS: Basically, they`re continuing their investigation, you know? They`re following up on leads that come in. There`s been no concrete leads, nothing significant that can help us find her at this point.

GRACE: Just one mile from her home to the Escondido High School.

DUBOIS: That`s correct. Even less than that. I would probably say closer to a half mile than a mile.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: How many millions of parents let their children walk to school every day? I did. My brother and sister did, seemingly millions of children every morning walking to school, walking home in the afternoons. That is what happened with Amber Dubois, just 14 years old.

Straight out to Phil Farrar with KOGO. Phil, what`s the latest?

PHIL FARRAR, NEWS ANCHOR, REPORTER, KOGO RADIO, COVERING STORY: Well, the latest is right now Bill Garcia is out searching, the private investigator, back out searching once again. I talked with him this morning. He has told me of a couple of new developments.

One of the developments was they found four kids who were taking some of the flyers off of poles and these parents saw that they put these flyers back up and once again, these kids took these particular flyers back down so they`ve been kind of looking at these particular kids as well.

Once again, Friday the 13th. That unlucky day, the significance of that. Did that play a role as well? Garcia also told me that he would be searching particular areas today near Lake Wolford which is due east of Escondido. There was a report of two men on Friday the 13th that late evening who had a plastic bag and they dumped something near the lake.

GRACE: Joining me right now, the mother and father of little Amber, Carrie McGonigle and Maurice Dubois, joining us from San Diego. Thank you to the two of you for being with us.

To Carrie, Miss McGonigle, tell me about the morning she disappeared.

CARRIE MCGONIGLE, MOTHER OF MISSING 14-YR-OLD, AMBER DUBOIS: I went to work early that morning. I saw her before I left for work, and I went in and I told her she was getting her baby lamb, that she was -- been wanting for a year to -- she guaranteed she`d take care of it. I went over and gave her a hug, a kiss, told her I loved her and told her I`d see her later that evening.

GRACE: She wanted to get the -- to purchase the baby lamb for her Future Farmers of America project?

MCGONIGLE: It was for her -- it was actually for her science, but she is part of the Future Farmers of America.

GRACE: And where were you going to keep it?

MCGONIGLE: The Escondido High School keeps it at the high school. They have, I think, a five-acre farm there and they raise it for four months and then they auction it off at the county fair.

GRACE: And she was excited about having one for herself and plan to name it Nannette?

MCGONIGLE: Yes.

GRACE: To Amber`s father Maurice Dubois. Mr. Dubois, thank you for being with us again. I don`t understand this new theory that`s emerging about her disappearance being part of some kind of a prank. What does it mean?

DUBOIS: It`s a little confusing to us. I wouldn`t understand any prank that would go on this way, you know? I don`t see any student who could pull a prank on a family that`s this devastating. I just couldn`t see it.

GRACE: So is the theory behind the prank that they kidnapped Amber as a cruel joke and they`re holding her somewhere? That doesn`t make any sense.

DUBOIS: I don`t -- I don`t see any sense in it either.

GRACE: And you know what else, too, Mickey Sherman and Peter Odom, they may call it a prank, but I call it felony kidnapping, Odom.

ODOM: Well, first of all, Nancy, if that`s a theory, then it`s a theory in search of evidence and frankly, if there`s no evidence to back it up I think they ought to stay away from saying anything about it.

GRACE: I agree, Mickey Sherman. This is not a prank.

SHERMAN: No, frankly.

GRACE: If it started as a prank it is felony kidnapping at this point.

SHERMAN: I don`t believe it even started as a prank.

GRACE: I don`t either.

SHERMAN: I think that`s an absolutely ridiculous theory. A prank is when you throw water balloons to somebody or order too many pizzas to go to their home. This is serious as a heart attack. Our hearts going out to these folks. And they should be going down different avenues.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, much more legitimate is the fact that there have been multiple kidnappings and attempted kidnappings in the area. In fact, one was very near a school, an elementary school.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: All around in the same school district, Nancy. There, apparently, were three in an eight-day period. Now law enforcement, they`re all -- the vehicles that were used in this were all different. There was, apparently, a firearm on the dash of one of the vehicles of these attempted kidnappings, but right now they don`t believe that they`re connected, but it`s something I would definitely be looking into.

And the other thing, too, you know, when she walks all that way, she was seen 300 yards, Nancy, from the school. My question is, do any of the homes along where she was walking, do any of them have any kind of surveillance video? You know, a lot of people nowadays have surveillance cameras around their house.

If I was law enforcement I`d make sure that I`d -- checking to see if any of these homes along her route had any surveillance cameras.

GRACE: You know, Mike, you`re absolutely correct. Practically anyone that has a nanny cam these days can have one trained on the front door which also shows the yard, the driveway, the road in front of the home.

I want to go back to Carrie McGonigle, this is Amber`s mother. Again, thank you for being with us. You said Amber had her cell phone with her. Did she take her charger as well? Did she carry that with her?

MCGONIGLE: No, her charger was left at the house.

GRACE: Did she have a debit card or a credit card of any type, Miss McGonigle?

MCGONIGLE: She had no access to any money whatsoever. She has -- she hides her money in her room and I found it and it was $8 and she puts it in a secret spot and that`s all the money she had on her besides the check to -- made out to the school.

GRACE: You know, how people are suggesting she ran away, Maurice Dubois, is beyond me. She -- her cell phone`s gone dead, she didn`t have any money. She only had the check to buy the little lamb at school. Did she take anything with her such as clothes or any of your or her mom`s money?

DUBOIS: Absolutely not. There`s nothing -- nothing else is missing from the house.

GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas, where do we go from here, Marc? I mean the police have -- stopped the searched because -- not to their discredit, they followed up on all of the leads. They don`t know where to search -- where to search next. What about it, Mike Brooks?

BROOKS: Tell you what, Nancy, they`re going to continue to look for any kind of leads that they can find. You know there`s a lot of things -- she was seen within 300 yards of that school. Someone else had to have seen her. Was she by herself? Was she with friends? You know, if this -- if this -- whole prank theory which I don`t think -- I would totally discount that.

GRACE: I wish nobody had even said that. That`s hurting the investigation. That`s BS!

BROOKS: I think you`re absolutely right, too, Nancy.

GRACE: Look at this girl. Amber Dubois, the tip line, 888-55-AMBER. It is anonymous. There is a reward. Go to www.bringamberhome.com. Please help us find this girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUBOIS: Typical home life. I mean, I`m not going to paint a golden picture. I mean everything is great there. I mean she loves her house, she loves her life. Great friends. No problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight back out to Amber`s parents, joining me today, the father, Maurice Dubois, and her mother, Carrie McGonigle.

To Carrie, have you and the father done any ground searches, any searches yourself for Amber?

MCGONIGLE: I did last weekend. I went up on Amber`s horse up into -- all through up a big park near us. We did -- we covered about 15, 20 miles of searching.

GRACE: Miss McGonigle, when did you realize Amber was missing?

MCGONIGLE: About 4:30.

GRACE: Oh, no. So the whole day had gone by before anybody realized?

MCGONIGLE: Well, yes. She -- called me when she gets home from school. And when she didn`t call, I was at work, I called her cell phone and it went straight to voice mail. And then I left work. Thinking she was.

GRACE: So.

MCGONIGLE: Thinking she would be at a friend`s house, or, you know, just being a teenager. But there was no sign of her.

GRACE: So Mr. Dubois, the whole day passes and no one realized she was gone, the school didn`t call home or anything?

DUBOIS: The school called and left a message at the house. And once Carrie got home, she listened to the message and received it. But, yes, we had no -- no notification that.

GRACE: Mr. Dubois, you are speaking to the public tonight. What is your message?

DUBOIS: Help. You know what? Help us find our daughter, you know. Keep her in your mind. Go to her Web site. Print up a flier. Keep it on your dash. You know keep it somewhere nearby so that if you see her or see someone that looks like her, you know, look at the picture, keep it for reference.

GRACE: Everyone, the tip line, 1-888-55-AMBER.

Let`s stop and remember Army Chief Warrant Officer Brady Rudolf, 37, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, killed Iraq. From a family of military vets, had more than 20 years service, a pharmacist. Would give you the shirt off his back, with a sparkle in his eye, a smile that lights up a room.

Loved family, God and country. Leaves behind grieving widow, Jennifer, three sons, brother, Dustin.

Brady Rudolf, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. A special good night from friend of the show, VG, Virginia Gunn (ph).

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," February 27, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: We're back live in Satsuma, Florida, reporting on the disappearance of 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, little Haleigh allegedly last seen by the 17-year-old girlfriend of Haleigh's father at about 10:00 PM on February 9.
Joining us live is Haleigh's mother, Crystal Sheffield, and Haleigh's grandmother, Marie Griffis. Nice to see both of you. Any news today, Crystal, at all? Nothing?
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH'S MOTHER: Nothing.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you talked to the police today?
SHEFFIELD: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you, Marie?
MARIE GRIFFIS, HALEIGH'S MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Not since last night.
VAN SUSTEREN: What were they telling you last night?
GRIFFIS: He -- last night, he just stopped and confirmed that the dumpster that they had went through, the smell coming out of it was just debris laying in water. And something else was in there, he said, but it had nothing to do with Haleigh, and just letting us know that they had turned the trailer back over to Ronald.

VAN SUSTEREN: And was that -- I mean, you're making a reference to that the -- that there have been some dogs that have made a hit on that -- on that dumpster, which cast a lot of suspicion on the dumpster?
GRIFFIS: Yes. Yes. They smelled something, but he said there was nothing in there. They went through it piece by piece.
VAN SUSTEREN: Crystal, you know, I can't even imagine the agony. What do you -- I mean, how do you pass your days, just waiting and waiting? Is that...
SHEFFIELD: I take it day by day.

VAN SUSTEREN: What -- you know, what -- what's your child like? Tell us about her. I mean, is she the kind who -- would she ever walk off with anybody?
SHEFFIELD: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Absolutely not?
SHEFFIELD: No. No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is she a shy kid, a bold kid?
SHEFFIELD: She's not shy, but she's not going to go off with a stranger. I mean, she's just -- she's a wonderful little girl. She'll talk to you, but she's not going to go with a stranger.
VAN SUSTEREN: Marie, do you think she's capable of opening a deadbolt lock?
GRIFFIS: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why not? I mean (INAUDIBLE) been with you, and like, you've -- I mean, she just doesn't seem like a kid who's interested in locks and would mess with the door?
GRIFFIS: Well, at our house, I keep my deadbolt locked, and it's right where a kid can open it. My 9-year-old daughter, she can unlock it, but the other kids don't usually mess with it. And Haleigh has never opened the back door and went out of it.
VAN SUSTEREN: Crystal, what's your -- you know, in your heart or -- what do you think happened? Or your mind. I mean -- I mean, like, what -- deep down inside, what's your -- what's your suspicion?
SHEFFIELD: I honestly don't know. I mean, there's so much going around. I hope somebody has her and they're taking care of her. I mean, because I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. All I hear is what everybody's saying happened, and I just -- I hope someone has her and they're taking care of her. And I just want them to bring her home.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you actually live in this community?
SHEFFIELD: No. I live in Baker County.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you ever lived in this area?
SHEFFIELD: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: In the time that you lived here, did you ever hear about kids being nabbed or grabbed, or anything.
SHEFFIELD: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: In broad daylight it looks like a pretty safe area. There were not a lot of people around today. It looked pretty safe.
SHEFFIELD: She was a year old when me and her dad moved here. And I lived here until she was almost 15. I never had no worries about my kids running around playing with the neighborhood kids. We never worried about anybody coming and snatching one of our kids. This is the first time.
VAN SUSTEREN: What is your sort of thought on this, if you are investigating it?
SHEFFIELD: Somebody in that house knows what happened.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken to Ronald or his girlfriend since your granddaughter disappeared?
SHEFFIELD: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken to them either directly?
SHEFFIELD: I have spoke to Ronald. I have not spoke to Misty.
VAN SUSTEREN: And when you spoke to Ronald, what did you ask him.
SHEFFIELD: I did not ask him nothing. He just told me he was sorry and that if he had been home from work, it would not have never happened.
VAN SUSTEREN: He's hurting. He is a good father, isn't he?
SHEFFIELD: Yes. He loves Haleigh. I know Haleigh is his heart, and I do not think he hurt her.
VAN SUSTEREN: And we certainly hope we'll get some good news and find that child, your granddaughter and daugther. Thank you both for joining us.
GRIFFIS: Thank you.
SHEFFIELD: Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Moments ago, we walked through the neighborhood where Haleigh was last allegedly seen with the missing child's paternal grandmother Teresa Neves.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: How did you find out?
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH CUMMINGS PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: He called me.
VAN SUSTEREN: About what time did he call you?
NEVES: He called me 3:27, 3:28.
VAN SUSTEREN: So right after the 911 call? Right before?
NEVES: I believe that she was on with 911 when he called me.
911 CALL: (INAUDIBLE)
NEVES: He was in a panic.
911 CALL - RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH CUMMINGS’ FATHER: I just got home from work. My five-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now.
NEVES: And I thought, I am in my nightgown, and I am throwing me jeans on and going out of the door, and I thought that she is probably hiding under the bed or something.
VAN SUSTEREN: How far do you live from here?
NEVES: I live about somewhere between 12 and 15 miles.
VAN SUSTEREN: So did you hightail it over here?
NEVES: It took me about five minutes.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you did move fast.
NEVES: I was well over the speed limit, that's for sure. But I just thought if they got behind me, there would be more people here when we got here.
VAN SUSTEREN: So when did you get here, about 4:00 a.m.
NEVES: When I got here, it was about 3:30.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is the level of pain that which you imagined, or when it really happens, are there any words to describe it?
NEVES: I don't think that anybody ever, ever could understand how bad and how deep that hurts. And I do not think that they can understand the fear that you feel, not knowing where your child is and knowing that she is scared to death.
She is a five-year old. She was not a child who would go out in the dark. So you know that somebody took her.
But she is a daddy's girl. To be away from her father, you just know that she is scared to death, you know? I am afraid that maybe some couple who can't have a child and wanted a child, because she was so precious, they took her, and they are taking care of her.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did you say to Ronald? I know it is horrible for you, and it is horrible for your son. What are you saying to him now to try to help him get through this?
NEVES: The same thing I tell everybody--you have to keep praying. You have to keep the faith, and you have to believe what you pray.
VAN SUSTEREN: What do you think happened? Do you have any idea?
NEVES: I don't. No, I don't. I wish I did. I wish I could come up with any kind of scenario that would help find my baby girl.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: We are going to bring you the very latest on this investigation as soon as we get it.

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NANCY GRACE

Aired March 3, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

<snipped to include only Haleigh coverage>

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been exactly three weeks since anyone has seen Haleigh Cummings. Just like every other night since her disappearance, Haleigh`s mom`s family and her dad gathered for a vigil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pray that you would honor this prayer, bring Haleigh home safely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mobile home on Green Lane where the 5-year- old was sleeping the night police say someone abducted her is no longer a crime scene, but Haleigh`s grandmother Teresa Neves says the family is having a hard time going down there and no one wants to go inside, at least not yet.

TERESA NEVES, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: It`s very hard. It`s hard to see all her things in there and she`s not there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The support from the community continues to pour in and the families say it`s appreciated. A local man even dropped off a CD with a song he wrote dedicated to the little girl.

He even printed the CrimeStoppers number on the front encouraging people to call in tips because tips are what investigators say are going to help them solve this case and hopefully bring Haleigh home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing right now just-released home video released by the family just before we went to air in the hopes that it would generate new leads. You`re seeing little Haleigh, 5 years old, playing there in the home. Little Haleigh taken out of her home in the middle of the night according to the girlfriend/babysitter sleeping in the room with her, reportedly.

The family so desperate they are calling in psychics to help in the search for Haleigh.

To T.J. Hart with WSKY 97.3 FM. T.J., what`s the latest?

T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIR., WSKY 97.3FM, COVERING STORY: The latest is a lot of people have been re-interviewed today including neighbors, family and friends and also a lot of tips have come in about 2,300 so far and well over a hundred of them have been coming in from people professing to be psychics and there`s a lot of people being very positive about the probable return in the case of Haleigh.

A lot of people are describing this case as similar to that of Elizabeth Smart, and I know that you brought this up several times on the show where you talked where she was found alive nine months later. There`s a lot of hope but there are also a lot of people trying to find whatever leads they can possibly follow in this case. And even if it is a psychic, that`s where they`re going.

GRACE: To Natisha Lance on the case from the very beginning. Natisha, explain how the family has decided to call in psychics.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH HALEIGH`S FAMILY: Well, actually, Nancy, the psychic approached the family and so far they`ve searched two locations. They were able to find some evidence and hopefully they want to turn that evidence over to investigators. Some of the evidence that they were able to collect were water bottles, eggs, Easter eggs as well as a fresh soda can.

They believe that possibly this could be connected to Haleigh based on what the psychic has told them and they will turn it over to investigators so that they can get it processed and looked into it.

GRACE: Joining me right now is special guest Marie Griffis. This is the maternal grandmother of little Haleigh.

Miss Griffis, thank you for being with us.

Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Miss Griffis, does the family believe that the psychics will be able to help?

MARIE GRIFFIS, MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER OF HALEIGH: Yes. Some of the things that they have told Crystal, they`ve told her things about her past that they would have no way of knowing, so, you know, we kind of lean towards believing some of the things that they`re trying to do. But you know.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. The family now relying on psychics as police comb through over 2,000 tips in the search for this little girl.

Back to Marie Griffis, the maternal grandmother of little Haleigh. Miss Griffis, a lot of viewers have asked about a band-aid that the father, Ronald Cummings, was wearing immediately after little Haleigh went missing. We`re showing it to you right now.

We have been told that that band-aid was not due to a cut, but due to a cyst that Mr. Cummings suffered. Is that true?

GRIFFIS: I have no idea. I know Crystal said he always gets cysts like that on the back of his neck. A lot of people associate it with steroids or drugs. I have no idea.

GRACE: Well, you know, I don`t know about that. I just want to clarify the purpose of the band-aid.

With me maternal grandmother of Haleigh, Marie Griffis.

Back to Natisha Lance. Natisha, cadaver dogs hit on a dumpster near Haleigh`s home. What can you tell me?

LANCE: Nancy, this was about two-tenths of a mile away from the Cummings` home. Now when you say that it`s about 60 seconds in walking distance away from the home. Three cadaver dogs hit on this dumpster. Now investigators went through it, searching through every single bag that was in this dumpster. They were not able to find anything that was connected to Haleigh. They didn`t get specific in terms of what the cadaver dogs hit on, but they said it was nothing that was connected to Haleigh.

GRACE: You know, to Dr. Posey. Dr. Posey, cadaver dogs don`t hit on human waste like a band-aid or a syringe where there`s blood. It`s my understanding they only hit on human remains, dead remains.

POSEY: That`s correct and I find the lead a little bit concerning because they found nothing in the dumpster. So I agree with you, there`s - - there has to be something there and more to that than what we`re hearing.

GRACE: And to Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Is that your understanding regarding cadaver dogs?

SHINDEL: Yes, it is, Nancy. The HRD dogs, human remains detection canines, that`s what they do. They go for human remains only and that`s what they`re trained to do. That`s what they find.

GRACE: And back to T.J. Hart with WSKY, 97.3 FM. T.J., when was the dumpster searched?

HART: That dumpster was searched, I believe, it was Thursday night and that was one of the things that we saw a lot of action coming in from right over the fence and we were able to peer over and they brought out actually two dumpsters and they emptied them out and went through the bags pretty thoroughly that night. They had the night lights and everything else out there for the search.

GRACE: Why so long after her disappearance to go out with cadaver dogs?

HART: Normally, we`ve been told that that is just a protocol to make sure that nothing is missed and to have the three dogs being that close to the home and then getting that strike like that was very shocking to a lot of people.

GRACE: But, I mean, so many days had passed since Haleigh went missing for them to go to the dumpster. I`m very disturbed.

HART: We were told that by.

GRACE: I`m very disturbed by that whatever -- go ahead.

HART: I`m sorry, Nancy. We were told by officers that nothing had been taken out of that dumpster -- since that time. So nothing has been disturbed.

GRACE: How did they know? How did they know unless the dumpster`s been under surveillance?

We`re taking your calls. Cheryl in Michigan, hi, Cheryl.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: Here`s my question. When was this dumpster dumped?

GRACE: It was Thursday.

CALLER: Could she be in there prior?

GRACE: It was Thursday, late Thursday afternoon, and I don`t understand the delay, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Nancy, investigators have told us that nothing had been dumped or removed from this dumpster before Haleigh -- from the time Haleigh went missing. Now we also called the dumpster company, they didn`t return our phone call back, but this is an area that Teresa Neves had actually asked investigators to search previously and she said she asked them over and over again and investigators have said that they did search this area, but for some reason when they went back there with these three cadaver dogs they all hit on it.

GRACE: And very quickly, Sue Moss, the delay in searching this dumpster and they got a hit with three cadaver dogs. That`s a problem.

MOSS: That`s a huge problem. That`s just like the fact that they didn`t do the AMBER Alert quick enough. Time is of the essence. The more time that passed, the less chance we`re going to find her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I`m not here to answer any questions. I`m here to plea for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home. Don`t care how she gets here, just bring her home. And if you`re watching, baby, I love you. That`s all I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to a special guest, joining us, Reverend Jesse Smallwood. He`s joining us from Claxton, Georgia. He was the prior owner of the home form which Haleigh was taken.

Reverend, thank you for being with us. Specifically, I want to ask you about that bedroom in which Haleigh was sleeping when she was allegedly kidnapped. How big is that bedroom?

REV. JESSE SMALLWOOD, PREVIOUS OWNER OF MOBILE HOME WHERE HALEIGH DISAPPEARED: It`s about 10 by 10, maybe 10 by 14, little wider than it is long because it has a very large bath at the end of the bedroom.

GRACE: And Reverend Smallwood, how far away is the kitchen door? The back kitchen door that was left propped open from the bedroom?

SMALLWOOD: Very farthest part of the house. You`re in one corner of the house and the door is basically on the same wall. You would have to go all the way through the living room, the kitchen.

GRACE: OK.

SMALLWOOD: Then the washroom and then to the door which have.

GRACE: Got it.

SMALLWOOD: . a sliding bolt that I installed for my son, young son was there.

GRACE: A sliding.

SMALLWOOD: And I was a renter there, not owner.

GRACE: A sliding metal bolt. Not plastic.

SMALLWOOD: Yes. Yes. They`re put it up because the door would prop open and I put a sliding metal bolt up high.

GRACE: Did that repair the door from just popping open? Did that repair the door?

SMALLWOOD: Yes. Yes.

GRACE: And Ray Giudice, I`ve got 15 seconds. So the perp would have to come in to a room 10 by 14 and make it all the way down the length of the home and not be heard?

GIUDICE: Yes, and if you ever walked in a lot of mobile homes, they tend to actually squeak because they sit off the ground and they`re aluminum. There`s a lot of creaking going on. I think the story that somebody did that without being noticed is difficult to believe.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant Daniel Eshbaugh, 43, Norman, Oklahoma, killed Iraq. A flight engineer on a second tour, also served in the Air Force dedicated to family, country, awarded the Army Commendation Medal, Oklahoma Long Service Medal and Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal.

Loved Oklahoma football, leaves behind widow Rachel and four children.

Daniel Eshbaugh, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

New Leads in Haleigh Cummings Case; Search Suspended for Men Lost at Sea

Aired March 3, 2009 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, week three in the frantic search for Haleigh Cummings. Cops are following up on every possible lead as a new tip leads him to question a neighbor about a door bell. What could it mean? Was it another dead end?

As desperation mounts, the Cummings family released another batch of Haleigh home video in the hopes somebody will recognize this child.

Then a massive, intense search across the Gulf of Mexico. Two NFL players and another man lost at sea after going on a routine fishing trip. A fourth man already saved in a dramatic rescue. I`ll have the details.

And bad news for Casey Anthony`s defense. A judge rules that scandalous party photos of Casey will be released to the public. How shocking are they? I`ll show you, and I`ll examine how it will affect her murder trial.

Plus, an update on the Rihanna/Chris Brown soap opera, Rihanna reportedly back together with Brown less than a month after he allegedly battered her. Now Rihanna`s family speaks out, worrying she`s putting herself at risk. And why haven`t authorities charged Chris Brown yet?

Then we have the shocking video of a 15-year-old girl getting a vicious beating by prison guards as one slams her to the floor by her hair. Will the guards face charges, or is this just business as usual behind cell walls?

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight it`s a race against the clock in the frantic search for little Haleigh Cummings. The investigation is now entering its fourth week, and authorities admit they are totally stumped.

In a desperate bid to drum up new leads, her family has released another home video recorded about six months ago. It shows the adorable little girl playing in front of the fireplace.

While thousands of tips have poured in, not a single one has brought authorities closer to finding this missing 5-year-old. Little Haleigh vanished from her bed in the wee hours of February 9. One mysterious tip about a doorbell chime led detectives to the home of a neighbor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTY HUBBARD, NEIGHBOR QUESTIONED ABOUT DOORBELL: They got a tip on my name, period, and they said that they needed to question me because that I had a door bell -- if I had a door bell that rang like a grandfather clock and which I said I don`t even have a door bell in my house, y`all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is the significance of that, if any? And why after all this time are there so many more questions than answers?

Let`s go straight to my panel: Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; Vinny Parko, private investigator; Debbie Glasser, clinical psychologist; and Jennifer Bauer with CNN affiliate WJXT in Jacksonville.

Jennifer, what is the very latest?

JENNIFER BAUER, WJXT REPORTER: Well, unfortunately, Jane, for these two families there is not a lot of new information to report. Police tell us they now have 2,300 leads have come in, in the last 22 days since Haleigh was last seen. Seventy tips just came in over this weekend, and investigators tell us they are just continuing to follow up on every one of them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you a couple of things going back over this investigation. What happened to the missing sex offender. I believe his name was Chad Reynolds, 25. He lived in the area, and he disappeared mysteriously in early February?

BAUER: That`s right. Twenty-five-year-old Chad Reynolds. He is a sexual predator, registered sexual predator here in Florida. He was convicted of a sex crime here in Putnam County but has been missing out of Marion County. Still no information. Police have not been able to find him in the last 22 days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what about tests? We know that cadaver dogs last week hit on a Dumpster. Have they taken any of the material from within that Dumpster and had it tested forensically? Because they say they have absolutely no leads, but perhaps if they test it and found DNA or something in that Dumpster that the cadaver dogs hit on, we`d have something.

BAUER: You know, Jane, that`s a really good question. They had the one Dumpster where they were going through and searching and then they brought in a second Dumpster, an empty Dumpster, and they were transferring things from one Dumpster to the other and going through them piece by piece.

But that night, that Thursday night, they told us there was nothing. So I`m going to have to go out there and say that nothing has been forensically tested, because they told us that evening that the investigation in that Dumpster was over.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now I was hearing reports that they are still re- interviewing the relatives. This has gone on and on with these re- interviews. What`s the latest on that?

BAUER: We asked investigators about that today, and they keep telling us that as new tips come in, as new leads come in, and as they continue to receive phone calls, more questions come up, and they keep going back to the family for confirmation and for information. They say it`s strictly routine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So I understand that the families are obviously just hanging on by huddling together with prayer. We only have a couple of seconds, but how would you describe them right now? Are they in the tents right near the crime scene from which Haleigh was taken, or have they scattered?

BAUER: They`re still in the tents, Jane, and I would use one word to describe these families, and I`d say desperate. They are desperate for information, and they are just beside themselves. Every day it gets harder and harder, and they just don`t know what to do at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer Bauer, you`re doing a great job out there. Thank you for joining us and please come back soon, hopefully with some very good news about little Haleigh.

All right. Let`s get to the rest of my panel. Jayne Weintraub, the FBI is involved, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Putnam County Sheriff`s Office, and still no leads on this child. How is that possible?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t than that they don`t have any leads. We just know that they haven`t released any information. I mean, you raised one good point about the pedophile that`s registered that hasn`t appeared yet.

We also know from the doorbell chime that they have re-interviewed her younger brother, even though he`s only 3 years old. He speaks. He heard. He knows what he heard, Jane, and if it sounded to him like a doorbell chime, maybe it was a cell phone ring, a BlackBerry ring. Maybe that`s one way that they can look to identify if they`re speaking in the neighborhood or if it`s a portable ring. I think that they`re on to something with listening to the little boy. That`s all they`ve got.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I actually have a couple of thoughts on that.

Debbie Glasser, Haleigh`s mom said that her little boy, who was 3 at the time of this abduction of his big sister, and is now 4, had sort of revised -- or there`s been a revision of his description of what happened.

He had said initially that a man in black had come in and taken Haleigh, and now he`s changed it to a black man dressed in black. Can we really trust what a 3-year-old has to say, given that they often live in their imaginations?

DEBBIE GLASSER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. It`s a really touchy situation. And plus, he said he was 3 at the time and now he`s 4. You know, a lot of changes take place in the lifetime of a young child, 3 to 4. Enormous cognitive changes, neurological changes, physical changes.

You know, this family is clinging to everything. And, of course, investigators must track down every lead and follow every piece of information they get. It`s just really, really challenging to pin a whole lot...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not to interrupt, but if the child is having a flight of imagination, that could hurt the investigation, because then it puts people on -- in a wild goose chase.

GLASSER: Right. Well, hopefully, the investigators are tracking down all leads and not doing one instead of another. There`s an enormous amount of information coming in. This poor family is clinging to everything. And the truth is perhaps the 3-year-old did hear something, and that needs to be investigated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Early on in the investigation, bloodhounds have reportedly tracked Haleigh`s scent to the area along the banks of the nearby St. John`s River.

Now, as you can see from this Google map -- take a look at this -- it`s not far from the Cummings` home. Reportedly, investigators came up empty. You see the river there. But does this mean it was really a dead end?

Vinny Parko, private investigator, do you think we`ve heard enough about the possibility of Haleigh`s abductor, let`s say taking her away by boat? Or what about thoroughly dredging this river?

VINNY PARKO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: You know, you have to try everything. I mean, you`ve got a poor little girl that`s missing. Every lead can help you. If the dogs found a scent towards the river, then that would be an area that I would look at.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And you know what I`d like to talk about very briefly is the fact that Ron Cummings has gotten a tattoo. And he was so devastated by the events that have occurred, his little daughter being taken from his home, that he decided to go get a tattoo. And it`s a tattoo of little Haleigh`s face. And this is something that he has done sort of as a sign of solidarity with his missing daughter. Debbie Glasser, good therapy?

GLASSER: You know, everybody reacts to stress in their own way, and this is such extreme stress. There`s no way we can put ourselves in the shoes of this family and what they`re anything through. You know, if putting a tattoo of his daughter`s face is going to help him stay hopeful and cooperate with investigators and do everything that they can to bring little Haleigh home, then that`s when he needs to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Everyone, sit tight. We are just getting started. Do you think cops are grasping for straws in the search for Haleigh Cummings? Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297 and let me know.

In other stunning news, a 15-year-old girl is viciously beaten by prison guards. It is caught on tape. I will show you more of the shocking video in a moment.

But first, here is the Cummings` neighbor showing support for Haleigh`s family after cops questioned him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUBBARD: Anything I could do to bring this girl home, that`s what I`m here for. You know, this is my neighbor. This is my neighborhood. So, you know, I mean, I`ve got grandkids, you know, and this worries me to death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I`m here on plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home. I don`t know care how she gets here. Just get her home.

And if you`re watching, baby, I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Haleigh`s dad making a desperate appeal to anyone with information about his daughter.

I am back with my panel, talking about the latest developments in the search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Her family refuses to give up hope. Her grandmother says one reason is detectives on the case have described it as similar to that of Elizabeth Smart.

Elizabeth was abducted from her Salt Lake City home in June of 2002. She was snatched from the bedroom she and her kid sister shared. Miraculously, Elizabeth was found alive nine months later.

I am very pleased to welcome her father, Ed Smart, president of the Surviving Parents Coalition.

Thanks so very much for joining us, and thank you for all the very good work that you do, Ed.

ED SMART, PRESIDENT, SURVIVING PARENTS COALITION: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They have actually cited your daughter`s miraculous recovery as a reason for hope for little Haleigh. Do you agree, and if so, why do you agree?

SMART: Absolutely. You know, I think that the Cummings are going through an incredibly difficult time. I remember how hard it was for us. And you get to a point where there are all these people working, trying to do their best to find her, and yet it still seems to be so far out of your control to have any control on the situation. And it`s just so difficult.

You know, one of the things that really helped us was, you know, a former -- or should I say another family member that had been through the same situation before, talked about trying to keep the focus, keep the picture of Elizabeth out there. Certainly, in this case keeping Haleigh`s picture out there. And we -- we just didn`t know what we could do to try to find her, and we had everyone helping. Now, certainly, things have changed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ed, let me jump in and ask you...

SMART: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You at some point took matters into your own hands. What did you do?

SMART: Well, you know, we had a -- the Law (ph) Recovery Center came in and set up a search center. And we had a number of searches going on, numerous dogs, heat-seeking helicopters, volunteers that were there time and time again combing the area. We -- my brothers were amazing. They just would not give up, and they kept trying to search on any tip that they -- they heard about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But didn`t you call "America`s Most Wanted"? Didn`t "America`s Most Wanted" get involved at a certain point?

SMART: They did, and it was a few months down the road. But John Walsh was amazing. In fact, it was because of his show that Elizabeth was found. And, you know, the -- having everyone there trying to help was...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me get into that...

SMART: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... because it is so crucial. I mean, it was on "America`s Most Wanted," and then people started seeing the video of the girl. And they connected it to a child that they had seen in the area?

SMART: No, really what it was, was we had just come out with the picture that was supposedly of this Brian David Mitchell. And we -- two people had seen that picture on "America`s Most Wanted." and initially they spotted Brian Mitchell. and then they spotted Elizabeth or they thought who was Elizabeth. and so that was, you know, that was key, of course, in finding her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask you one other question. It was the kid sister, your youngest daughter, who had the epiphany and suddenly realized who it was. She actually cracked the case one day and said, "Dad, I know who did this." And apparently, authorities didn`t listen to her.

SMART: That`s right. They brought her in. They said, you know, "She says, `I think it might be.`" And you know, she had said to me, "Dad, I think it is." Well, I think and being the only witness there, certainly puts the most credibility on what she had to say.

And of course, that wasn`t considered or was downplayed significantly to a point that, you know, there wasn`t as much attention that needed to be focused in that direction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. And it`s just because she was a kid, right?

SMART: Right, right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And so we have a similar situation here. And Ed, I want to thank you so much. I really want to thank you for all the great work that you do as part of the Surviving Parents Coalition, helping people in these hellish situations get through this kind of stuff.

But Jayne Weintraub, you just heard it right there. In that previous case the child solved it, and nobody listened because it was a kid.

WEINTRAUB: And that`s exactly what I think is happening here. And just because he`s 3 years old, you know, those of us who have had children we all know, maybe it was in the questioner. Was he wearing black or he was all in black? Maybe it wasn`t clear. If he`s saying what it was and what he saw, he knows.

But I also have to tell you, I`ve had the pleasure of meeting Ed Smart and his entire family. And that`s what this is all about, keeping the message going, never giving up. Their faith, their support system.

And the Cummings family seem to be overcoming their dysfunction and whatever from the divorce. They`re hanging together. He`s tattooing. You have to keep it out there...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.

WEINTRAUB: ... because something happened to Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thomasina, Florida, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes. I understand that Haleigh`s dad Ron had a long rap sheet for arrests involving drugs. I`d like to know how he got sole custody of his kids with such a long criminal record.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...

WEINTRAUB: Because she did -- oh, sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Answer the questions. I don`t have the answers.

WEINTRAUB: Because I think that it was also alleged that the biological mother was having the same situation and the same problems and also was not employed and couldn`t care for the child. And one of them was deemed more fit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to be more careful, because I don`t have any independent confirmation of that. And again, I think that one of the things the grandfather said is let`s not beat up on this family. We all have a past, and at this point, certainly, the dad`s alibi, whether the sheriff`s department said was firm. He was at work when this child was taken.

So you do have to wonder, Vinny Parko, why don`t they eliminate the family members as suspects, because they have studiously refused to eliminate anybody as suspects.

PARKO: You can`t eliminate anybody until they find the child, either alive or dead. And anybody could be -- everybody is a suspect. That`s unfortunate, but that`s the way it is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Tonya, Indiana. Question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes, I was wondering, have they done any investigation into the air-conditioning repairman since he was left in the house alone?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My understanding is that there was an air- conditioning repairman that day and that they have checked him out and that he is -- his alibi is OK. He is not a suspect, even though they haven`t officially taken anybody off the suspect list. That`s what the reports were from the local reporters, is that his whole story checked out.

Kathleen, New Mexico. Question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes. I was wondering, my comment is, is that either being man or woman, young or old, when you wake up in the middle of the night and the door is propped wide open, the first thing you would do is call the police, not knowing if somebody else is in that house. And that`s my comment is why she didn`t call the police right away.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vinny Parko, what do you think?

PARKO: That`s a good question. I have no idea why she didn`t call the police right away. Maybe she called her boyfriend, the father, right away, but a normal person would call the police right away.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we wrap up here, I want to do our part, because the family says that we really have to get the distinguishing features of this little girl out there. We do have a couple of photos showing her distinguishing features. And hopefully, we can go to that.

You see that she has light brown birthmarks, one on her left cheekbone and the other on her right jaw line. Details like this can make a difference. Look at this child`s face, and if you see her call authorities.

I want to thank my excellent panel, and please come back soon. Let`s hope we have good news in this case.

End of Haleigh coverage

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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Aired March 4, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

<snipped to include only Haleigh coverage>

Octo-mom developments in just moments. But first, the desperate search for Haleigh Cummings continues as tensions mount at the crime scene. Little Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, has been told to clear out of the makeshift camp she has called home for nearly a month now. Crystal broke down in sobs when a property manager told her she had to leave. The news hit her like a punch to the stomach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: I got really upset. I cried. Because I just want to be close. And yesterday I was just -- I was really upset yesterday. And I tried to hold it together, but it`s hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sure is. I`m sure.

Meanwhile, investigators say their leads have totally dried up on the whereabouts of little Haleigh. How is that possible with the FBI, state, and local law enforcement all working furiously on this case?

As the family clings to hope, they are now asking psychics for help; psychics to find their precious daughter. Ron Cummings made another desperate plea this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: Baby, I love you. I really love you with all of my heart. And my heart breaks every day that you`re not with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is just heart-breaking.

Joining me now, my expert panel: Char Margolis, a psychic intuitive and author of "Discover your Inner Wisdom" who has worked on previous investigations, hand in hand with law enforcement and Steve Kardian, former criminal investigators.

Char, before we get to the details of the investigation, you saw the mom`s reaction to being told to leave. Why is being close to the crime scene so emotionally important for family members who are now told they have to leave?

CHAR MARGOLIS, PSYCHIC INTUITIVE: When somebody is psychic and -- and working on a case, you want to feel the energy of the -- of the whereabouts of the person. And everybody has their own unique energy thumbprint.

So emotionally, the mother needs to be there because she wants to try and find her child. A psychic will go there to feel the energy, to see into the future of where that child may be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words, it`s sort of like a lesser version of what you experience? You say that you experienced intense energy but for family members and loved ones, there is a sense of energy when they`re close to the last place that she was seen before she disappeared?

MARGOLIS: Well, of course.

Imagine not knowing where your child is. Emotionally, this woman wants to be as close to her child as she can. In the last place that she knew her child was, was there. So she wants to grasp on to anything. She`s desperate.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, before we get to the whole psychic issue, I want to have Steve Kardian, you`re a criminal investigator. Weigh in here. The authorities are saying they have no idea. They`re no closer than day one.

Now, my suspicion, I could be totally off base here, is that that is not true. That they`re saying that as a strategy to see what happens because I can`t imagine that with cadaver dog hits, with all sorts of things that have happened that they have absolutely nothing.

STEVE KARDIAN, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I agree 100 percent with you, Jane. And law enforcement, if they have a cooperative individual who is a person of interest or a suspect if you will, they want to continue a dialogue and actually befriend that individual for as long as they possibly can.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I must point out that those cadaver dog hits, the authorities said, were false positives. Nevertheless, I would think that they would want to test some of the material found in that dumpster that the dogs hit on to see if maybe there`s some DNA or some other forensic evidence there.

Now, the cops are telling Haleigh`s family, as we`ve just talked about, they`ve run out of leads. Haleigh`s maternal grandmother, Marie Griffis, spoke to Nancy Grace about what a psychic has told them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE GRIFFS, MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER OF HALEIGH: Yes. Some of the things that they have told Crystal, they`ve told her things about her past that they would have no way of knowing. So, you know, we kind of lean towards believing some of the things that -- that they`re trying to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Char, how effective are psychics? And I know you`re a little biased because you`re a psychic, in this kinds of investigations. But I also know that I`ve actually watched shows where police -- these are reality shows, they`ve brought in psychics when they can`t find anything and they`re desperate themselves.

MARGOLIS: Well, I want to make it clear that I`m not working on this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.

MARGOLIS: To begin with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

MARGOLIS: Psychics can add things that other people may not be able to. And when a psychic works on something like this, it`s a team. You need to work with the family, the detectives, the FBI.

When I`ve worked on cases and some have been successful and some have not been, but the ones that are successful are the ones where everybody works as a team. There`s no like, you know, nobody is God. It`s teamwork.

Everybody respects everyone else`s abilities. And then you`re able to really come up with things because a psychic can see a vision of where this child can be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me ask Steve Kardian to have the last word here.

I know in the Casey case, there was a psychic who said she approached authorities and they didn`t take her seriously. What should the attitude of authorities be toward psychics who were trying to help out?

KARDIAN: It`s an investigative tool. And it`s a very good tool when it`s successful. And it`s kept relatively quiet, but the FBI and the U.S. military do use psychics on a regular basis.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll have to leave it right there.

Ok, we`re going to have leave it right there, I hope you guys -- you psychics out there are successful. They need help.

Steve and Char, thank you.

(end of Haleigh coverage)

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NANCY GRACE

Police Collect DNA From Missing Haleigh`s Family

Aired March 6, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Primetime exclusive tonight. We go live inside little Haleigh`s home, including the bedroom where the 5-year-old little girl is snatched in the middle of the night. How -- how -- could an intruder enter this home, including the bedroom where the girl slept along with her little brother and girlfriend/baby-sitter Misty Croslin, without detection? And for the first time since investigators clear the crime scene, Haleigh`s family goes back inside a home brimming with reminders -- Haleigh`s clothes, her photos, her pink-and-blue bicycle, favorite toys.

As we go to air, investigators back inside the home with Haleigh`s father. But why? In the last 48 hours, police insist on taking DNA evidence from multiple family members, including girlfriend/baby-sitter. Police emphasize no one -- repeat, no one -- has been cleared as a suspect. And was Haleigh spotted 35 miles away to the east, Saint Augustine, Florida? Tonight, inside the home of 5-year-old Haleigh, the very bedroom where she was snatched.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Poor little Haleigh Cummings. This 5-year-old girl`s missing now more than three weeks.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) back door was all open and I can`t find my daughter.

911 OPERATOR: Can`t find what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mobile home on Green Lane where the 5-year- old was sleeping the night police say someone abducted her is no longer a crime scene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t hear anything at all, nothing. If I heard something, I would have got up and I wouldn`t have let them take her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went through that house six or seven times. There`s nothing, nothing at all.

GRACE: The family now relying on psychics...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a dead case, it`s a cold case. I mean, it`s -- there`s all kinds of leads still coming in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Small reminders of Haleigh are everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cleaning her room was the hardest because she has her toys and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her bicycle sits out front, along with other toys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just (INAUDIBLE) and just know that she`s not there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never, ever imagined the pain that Ronald feels.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: I would like to tell my daughter, if she`s watching, Baby, I love you, and we will find you. I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, music superstar Rihanna brutally attacked just before she takes the stage at the Grammys. Stunning photos of a bloodied and beaten Rihanna go public as police announce an arrest. Rihanna`s alleged attacker, R&B superstar Chris Brown. As Rihanna stops cooperating with police, does it indicate she will not testify at trial? Suspect Chris Brown caught on video out on the town, boasting he`s got nothing to worry about. Hold on! Not so fast, Brown. It ain`t over yet!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Brown (INAUDIBLE) not to annoy, harass, molest, threaten or influence (ph) (INAUDIBLE) Do you understand that, sir?

CHRIS BROWN, CHARGED WITH ASSAULT: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to a detective`s sworn statement, Brown became enraged after Rihanna read a text message on his cell phone from a woman he had a previous sexual relationship with. The affidavit says Brown took his right hand and shoved her head against the passenger window, punched her in the left eye and continued to punch her in the face, causing her mouth to fill with blood and blood to splatter all over her clothing. The affidavit says Brown then told her, I`m going to beat the blank out of you when we get home. You wait and see. Now I`m really going to kill you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge asked whether or not he wanted a stay- away order, a no contact order for Rihanna with Chris Brown, and he said no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If convicted, Brown faces up to four years and eight months in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Primetime exclusive tonight. We are live inside Haleigh`s home, including the bedroom where the 5-year-old little girl is snatched in the middle of the night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s full of laughter as she poses for the camera in this home video.

GRACE: ... vanished into thin air.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now, I`m telling you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You always hear of it happening, but it`s never happened here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that they just haven`t found anything. Nothing. No DNA evidence, no evidence of any kind. That`s why they`ve turned the house back over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The piece of information is going to come in that will lead us to her, we haven`t found it yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just Haleigh all over the house.

GRACE: ... the back door propped wide open.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know what the crime is, at this point. All we know is that Haleigh is missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there talk from cousin Joe about revenge?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one is out of the mix.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my neighborhood. I got grandkids, you know, and this worries me to death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s our baby girl, and if you could just see her and call it in. We would greatly appreciate anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Won`t you help us?

Right now, we are there in Satsuma, Florida, live there at the crime scene just cleared by police. Joining me, our producer, Marlaina Schiavo, and Teresa Neves, the paternal grandmother of little Haleigh. Ladies, thank you for being with us.

You know, a lot of people have been extremely dubious, doubting, as to the girlfriend/baby-sitter`s story that in the middle of the night as she slept there in the room, someone came in the home, into the bedroom and took the little girl and nobody heard a thing.

Marlaina, show me the girl`s room. That`s the first thing I want to see.

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, Nancy. Well, we`re standing right here. Right beside me on my left is the bed where Misty Croslin was sleeping. And here on the right, we have the bed where little Haleigh was sleeping. And you can see it is all but about three-and-a-half feet from each other. And this is right where Misty said she got up and she had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Now, on the -- where I`m facing right now, Nancy, is a bathroom. It`s the master bathroom. Through the living room behind me is the other bathroom in the house. And you have to remember she said that when she got up to go to the bathroom, she saw that the kitchen light was on. The kitchen is over this way. So that means she would have had to have gotten up and gone out this door and then have noticed.

GRACE: OK. Stop. Marlaina, are you telling me that she did not go to the bathroom -- the baby-sitter did not go to the restroom, the master bathroom? She chose instead to go out the door, across the kitchen to another bathroom?

SCHIAVO: That is the assumption we are making. We asked Teresa, Haleigh`s grandmother, who`s standing with us. She wasn`t sure which bathroom she used. But if she saw the kitchen light on, she would have had to have used the other bathroom in the home, Nancy.

GRACE: Was the door open or shut, Ms. Neves? Because if the door was closed, that rules out her seeing the kitchen light. So was that bedroom door open when she realized the kitchen light was on?

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: The bedroom door is always open.

GRACE: So they sleep with the bedroom door open?

NEVES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Ms. Neves, where was the little brother?

NEVES: He was in the bed right here with Misty.

GRACE: OK, so the -- you`re answering a lot of questions by the way, Ms. Neves and Marlaina Schiavo. I`m seeing the short distance between the bed -- let`s take a full screen, please, Elizabeth. The full distance between the bed where Misty Croslin was sleeping and the little youth bed, the daybed, where Haleigh was sleeping can`t be more than about four feet, maybe five feet.

NEVES: I don`t think it`s that far.

SCHIAVO: Yes, it`s about -- it`s about four feet, Nancy, at most.

GRACE: All right. And the door is open.

SCHIAVO: Yes, the door is open.

GRACE: All right. What more can you tell me, Marlaina?

SCHIAVO: Well, basically, Nancy, we took a walk through with Teresa earlier, and we were trying to see if you -- if the door was loud when it opens, the back door where the intruder came in. We were also trying to see if the floor creaks. I must say, the floor does not creak. There`s carpeting throughout the home, with the exception of the kitchen. And the back door actually does slam.

Now, Teresa told us earlier that it was the screen door that was propped open with the cinderblock, not the actual main door. But both doors -- both doors, and I can take you and show you -- will both -- they both actually close automatically.

GRACE: OK. Wait. Before you leave the bedroom, Marlaina, how big is that bedroom? Yes, I don`t need to see the ceiling. Bring it back down. How big is the bedroom?

SCHIAVO: The bedroom is, I would say about -- I would have to say 11 by 13.

GRACE: OK. Let`s go through the rest of the house -- 11 by 13. Thanks. Go ahead. Tell me what else you observed.

SCHIAVO: OK. Well, basically, Nancy, they kept saying that the door, the back door, which we are about to go to, is about 16 feet from the bedroom. It`s a little bit more than that, actually. If I had to guess, it would probably be about 25. But I`m going to show you the back door and show you how both doors close automatically. So -- and I`m also going to show you the lock because the lock is about three feet from the floor, and we know that that`s about as tall as Haleigh stands.

So here`s the back door and here`s the lock. It sticks, so -- there you go. Now, we open the back door, and here`s the back screen door, the one that was propped open with the cinderblock, OK? Now, if you see when it closed -- it slams. It makes a loud noise. But if you leave this door -- this slowly closes, as well. So leaves a lot of questions as to what exactly -- how exactly did this person do this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone! I need somebody to be here now!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I walked in the kitchen and the back door`s wide open. And I go in the room, and she`s gone. And that`s all I know!

CUMMINGS: Came home this morning to find out that I didn`t have a child, that somebody stole my child. It`s not like a bicycle or a car. Somebody stole my child!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to have to go back in the room where the little girl was stolen from. I could not even come close to imagining what goes through his mind and how his heart is broken.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin said that she realized Haleigh was missing in the middle of the night when she woke up to use the bathroom. There`s two bathrooms in the mobile home, one directly in the master bedroom and the other all the way across the living room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live inside the home where little Haleigh is snatched in the middle of night while sleeping there in the room with the baby- sitter/girlfriend and the little brother.

Straight back out to our producer, Marlaina Schiavo. And leading us on the tour of the home, paternal grandmother of Haleigh, Teresa Neves. Ms. Neves, again, thank you for letting us inside your home.

Marlaina, I want to go back to that back door very quickly. What more can you tell me? Uh-oh, Marlaina can`t hear us.

While we wait for the satellite to clear up with Marlaina, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Gloria Allred, Randy Kessler, Joe Episcopo. To you, Joe Episcopo. I understand police have been back at the home with the father today and they have just insisted on taking DNA from all the family members. What does that mean to you?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, it means to me that they don`t have a viable suspect and they`re fishing around, like police do. They`re trying to find some evidence to make some connection. And I think they`re just trying to do the best they can do.

GRACE: Gloria?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nancy, they`re trying to gather all of the evidence. As the sheriff indicate, they don`t yet have an item of evidence that is going to lead them to Haleigh, in their opinion at this time. So they have to keep checking and rechecking and gathering everything they can.

GRACE: To Randy Kessler, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Randy, to me, the fact that they are taking DNA from all the family members does not mean anything nefarious because it may be they want to rule out DNA they found in the home. All the family members are rightfully there. But if they find DNA in the home that doesn`t match a family member, then they`ve got something to go on. So this is not necessarily a suspicious thing for the family.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, was it Sherlock Holmes said deductive logic? You know, that`s what they`re trying to do. And also, what if they do find some evidence? What if they find a car, some abandoned, you know, box that had the child, who knows, and then they find DNA on that box? They want to be ready to go, and good for them. It sounds like they`re pulling out a lot of resources, investing a lot of time, money and energy to be ready to catch whoever did it and then we`ll find out what it is.

GRACE: Straight out to T.J. Hart, the news director with WSKY 97.3. T.J., it`s good to see you again. T.J., what can you tell me about this alleged sighting 35 miles to the east?

T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3: Well, I tell you, it got a lot of people excited, too, because what had happened was there was a sighting of a man with a little girl walking on State Road 16 near Highway 1. And when this report came in, of course, law enforcement quickly went out to the scene. They went near the railroad tracks and they finally found the man who matched the description. It turned out that it was indeed a man who was walking his little girl to school. A lot of people had a lot of hope that this, indeed, was a sighting of young Haleigh. It turned out to be someone else.

Once again, she does have some identifiable markers folks need to look out for, including that birth mark on her cheek that looks like a peanut and also one on her jaw that is consistent with her Turner syndrome.

GRACE: But you know, T.J., the birthmark on her cheek is very, very pale. In most photos...

HART: It certainly is.

GRACE: ... you don`t even see it.

HART: That`s true. That`s true. But when people are the eyes out in the community, it`s something a little bit more to look for. We have so many people acting as eyes in the community. In Indiana, a truck driver took a picture of a young girl thinking, of course, it was young Haleigh. Grand Junction, also in Tennessee, as well. People are out there. They do have their eyes peeled. But it`s down to the details.

GRACE: Let`s see a map of the various Haleigh sightings, the last one seemingly the most promising...

HART: It was.

GRACE: ... Saint Augustine, Florida. I want to go to Matt Zarrell as we show you this map, our staffer on the story. Matt, what more can you tell me about the latest in the investigation? I understand it is transitioning from a ground search to an investigative search. What do you mean by that?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, they`ve gotten over 2,400 tips at this point and they still continue to get leads from the public every single day. You`ve got volunteers out searching throughout the weekends and during the week. And now what they`re doing, they`re doing tactical searches. When they get leads and tips that come in, then they`re searching based on that information.

GRACE: To Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author of "Love Prescription." Dr. Gardere, thank you for being with us.

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: A pleasure, Nancy.

GRACE: The family has just gone back into the home. And apparently, the father couldn`t take it. He could not take looking at the home, especially Haleigh`s room with all of her favorite toys, her blue-and-pink bicycle. What`s your advice?

GARDERE: Well, he`s taken this harder than anyone else, which is completely understandable. But my advice to him is that if he cannot take being around that environment where his beautiful daughter was, then he should spend some time away from the home, certainly spending more time with family, which is what he`s been doing and that has been a source of strength for him, Nancy.

GRACE: Everyone, we are live right now, about to take you back into the home where little Haleigh was allegedly kidnapped in the middle of the night. There you see the little bed where she was sleeping only about three feet away from where the baby-sitter/dad`s girlfriend was asleep with the little brother. We`ll be right back.

First to, tonight`s "Case Alert." Tonight marks the 16th anniversary in the mystery surrounding the murder of a 51-year-old Arizona mother, Gail Parker, vanishing March `93 after leaving a Tucson Circle K. Just hours later, she`s found bludgeoned to death in the desert, her purse and jewelry gone. The reward at $100,000. Take a look. If you have info, call Tucson police 520-791-4487.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the back door area, you can see that you have to walk up a ramp in order to get into the house. Now, what we do know is that Haleigh was afraid of the dark. And on both sides of the house, there is densely wooded area.

The back door has two locks on the door. The second lock which you would have to turn is a tight lock, so it wouldn`t be likely that little Haleigh would have been able to turn the lock and then let herself out the door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Marlaina, back to you there in the home. What can you tell me again about that door?

SCHIAVO: OK, Nancy. Basically, what I was saying to you is that the back door opens and shuts. When it shuts, it shuts automatically. So this was the one that was propped up with the cinderblock. This is a deadbolt, OK? Misty said that this one was wide open and this was propped open with the cinderblock. So basically -- and -- but if you leave this door by itself, it slowly closes on its own. So there was laundry on the floor, as you recall. Misty found the pink shirt by the back door where the laundry was. The laundry room machines are right here. If you put this down, the door stops.

GRACE: So to Teresa Neves joining us, the paternal grandmother of Haleigh. Ms. Neves, is it your understanding that there was laundry on the floor that night? Yes, no.

NEVES: I hate to say it, Nancy, but there`s almost always laundry on the floor.

GRACE: OK. Believe me, it`s that way in every home in America. But my point is -- I don`t care about laundry on the floor. I`m thinking about the mindset of a potential attacker, comes in the house, props open the back door with a cinderblock -- nobody knows where the cinderblock came from. That door`s open. And he steps over -- I`m pretty sure it`s a he -- steps over laundry, makes his way back out that door, Doesn`t shut. He doesn`t kick the laundry to the side. Haleigh never says a word. He`d have to prop it open before he comes in to get Haleigh. He couldn`t prop it open with a cinderblock with Haleigh in his arms. I mean, think about it.

NEVES: Right.

GRACE: So he must know that this door automatically slams. Marlaina, standing in the bedroom, can you hear the door slam? Yes, no.

SCHIAVO: No.

GRACE: Are you sure?

SCHIAVO: You can`t hear the door slam. We tried it once, and you can barely hear it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Haleigh`s family releasing new home video of Haleigh hoping to generate leads. As family, police, volunteers, working around the clock to bring the little girl home.

MARIE GRIFFIS, MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER OF HALEIGH: It hurts because we don`t have her, but at least I do have this that I can see her and look at her.

GRACE: Little Haleigh taken out of her home in the middle of the night according to the girlfriend/babysitter.

MISTY CROSLIN, GIRLFRIEND OF HALEIGH`S FATHER RONALD CUMMINGS: When I want to sleep she was there. And then when I woke up she was gone. I wish that they would have took me instead of her, you know, because I could have fought. You know, she`s only 5. She can`t really do anything. And I just wish they would have took me instead of her. What do they want with a little 5-year-old?

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I guess I do have a message for whoever has taken Haleigh. I would ask that you please, please bring my daughter home. And she is not yours. It`s not property. You know, it`s not something that you just take and say it`s mine or whatever. This is my daughter. This is blood and I would like to have my daughter back. Please.

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: From the back door it`s about 16 steps through the kitchen and through the living room right to and the front of Haleigh`s toddler bed in the bedroom. Directly across from her bed is a bed where Misty Croslin was sleeping with Haleigh`s little brother, Junior.

Misty Croslin said that she realized that Haleigh was missing in the middle of the night when she woke up to use the bathroom. Now there`s two bathrooms in the mobile home. One that is directly in the master bedroom and another one that is all the way across the living room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live inside that Satsuma home taking a look at where little Haleigh went missing. This in response to many of your questions about the lay out of the home.

Marlaina, you are there with Miss Theresa Neves, the paternal grandmother. Very quickly as we go to the lawyers, could you give me a walk through from the back door to the bedroom? I want to get a feel of how far away it is.

SCHIAVO: OK, Nancy. We`re at the back door. We`re coming through the kitchen here. Into the living room for a minute. And then around this corner is where the bedroom is. It`s about, you know.

GRACE: Keep going.

SCHIAVO: It`s about 20. So here we are into the bedroom. And this -- what I was saying to you earlier that we couldn`t see before, here is the master bathroom. Here`s the bed where Misty Croslin was sleeping with Junior. Now basically she would have to get up and either go to this bathroom or she would have to turn around, go that way into the other bathroom.

GRACE: So how many feet.

SCHIAVO: At this point.

GRACE: How many feet is it approximately, Marlaina, from where they were sleeping -- where the little girl was asleep in the middle of the night to that back door where the perp allegedly came in?

SCHIAVO: I`m going to say about 25 feet, Nancy.

GRACE: OK.

NEVES: (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: What, Miss Neves?

NEVES: I said I walked it in 16 steps.

GRACE: OK. And a step is usually about a foot for somebody your size.

Miss Neves, I understand that you all came back into the home to clean up. Did the police leave it a mess after the search?

NEVES: It was -- it was not -- they did their job, I guess.

GRACE: Got it.

NEVES: They turned the furniture over. They emptied the toy bins. They - - you know, they emptied whatever she might be in, pulled the -- pulled the paneling off the tub to make sure that she wasn`t in there.

GRACE: Did they take fingerprint?

NEVES: Basically we just tried to put it back. Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: So there was all the black fingerprint powder, too.

Steve Kardian, former police detective in New York. Steve, that`s the way it always is when there`s a thorough search it looks like somebody just completely rampaged the place. They tear everything up. And they are not house maids. They`re not paid, the detectives, to go back and put everything right. They were there to find evidence.

That`s tough, but that`s the way it is.

STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE: Yes, Nancy, it is. Everything is left un-unturned, everything is checked. And rechecked and rechecked again. And the fingerprints are taken. Any potential samples of DNA would be obtained. Anything worth evidentiary value but they would go through that house completely.

GRACE: And Steve, when you take fingerprints it is really a huge mess because it looks like somebody takes black talcum powder and just throws it everywhere. That`s how you lift latent prints. It`s very difficult to clean up after that. I`m sure you`ve seen, Steve Kardian, many, many crime scenes.

I want to go back to Theresa Neves, Haleigh`s grandmother. Miss Neves, do you stand firm that you believe Misty Croslin`s story, the babysitter that was with her that night?

NEVES: Yes, ma`am, I do.

GRACE: Another question -- Miss Neves, I understand that your son Ronald is not able, even now, to go back into the home? Why? What happened?

NEVES: It`s just very hard for him to come in here where Haleigh brought so much happiness and laughter. And see all her things and know that she is not here.

GRACE: How does it feel to you to be in there right now?

NEVES: I hope it`s helping Haleigh.

GRACE: Ms. Neves, one thing you`ve done for so many people tonight is to put to rest a lot of questions. We see the lay out of the home. We see that it`s not a shotgun home where it`s a straight shot and you can definitely hear everything at one end that happens at the other end. A lot has been cleared up.

Miss Neves, I understand that the police tore out the wall where the water heater was. Why?

NEVES: I couldn`t tell you unless they were looking for a way in or a way out. I don`t know.

GRACE: Miss Neves, a lot of viewers are wondering why your son Ronald is no longer making appearances on air to ask for help in finding Haleigh, why?

NEVES: It has -- pretty much, Nancy, there has been some really terrible things said about my son. He is a good father. I mean, it`s evident if you see him with his son or in the pictures with Haleigh. And he just feels like that -- that they`re beating him up.

GRACE: Well, assuming, and I am assuming that he is innocent of any wrongdoing, the media and others have been brutal on Ronald. And I understand.

I want to go to the Dr. Zhongxue Hua from Union County, the New Jersey medical examiner.

Doctor Hua, what toll, and I assuming that little Haleigh is still alive, would it take on her to be with a stranger all this time?

DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CO., N.J. MEDICAL EXAMINER: It`s -- I mean it`s very hard for young kids of her age to spend time with -- entirely separate from her parents and live with a stranger. It`s a new environment. It will take a while for the kids to adapt to it.

GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, weigh in, Matt?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, I think at this point they`re still looking for more clues. You`ve got sightings that are coming in every day. The family is praying for return. A $26,000 reward being offered. So they`re still hoping that they can get some more clues into whereabouts.

GRACE: I want to go back to Miss Neves there with our producer Marlaina Schiavo inside the home.

Miss Neves, when you look at the bed where little Haleigh was sleeping that night, what runs through your mind?

Last night when I got of the show and went home hand I checked on the twins, and I thought about, if I came home and that crib was empty, what would I do? And for the rest of the night, last night, I was walking around, I looked at the windows, the doors, I kept going back in and checking on the twins.

When you look at that bed, what goes through your mind?

NEVES: I just pray to God that Haleigh is alive so that she can come home and sleep in her bed again.

GRACE: Miss Neves, what message do you want to send tonight right now?

NEVES: I would like to thank everybody for their help and thank you, Nancy, for keeping my granddaughter out there, and I would just look to beg whoever has my granddaughter to please bring her home.

GRACE: Everyone, the tip line for little Haleigh is 888-277-TIPS. That`s 888-277-8477. Everyone is begging for your help. Here you`re seeing all right information about little Haleigh. Age 5, last seen, 2/10/09 there in Satsuma, Florida.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD ETRA, RIHANNA`S ATTORNEY: Concerning her rights whether or not the court should issue a stay-away order in this case, Rihanna requested that no such order be issued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Singer Rihanna wants the court not to issue a no contacted order against her boyfriend Chris Brown. Brown was in court facing two felony charges for allegedly assaulting her during an argument in February.

ETRA: But the court issued level one protective order, ordering Chris Brown not to annoy, molest, or harass her. We feel that that`s more than sufficient in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to court documents, Brown threatened to kill her during an argument over a text message. A police detective says Rihanna`s mouth was filled with blood after Brown allegedly punched her. The affidavit said the text message was from a woman with whom Brown had a past sexual relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Brown, you have the right to be arraigned today and have your trial within 60 days of today`s date. Do you now reach final agreement (INAUDIBLE) your arraignment to April 6th this year?

CHRIS BROWN, R&B SINGER: Yes, ma`am.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Tom O`Neil, senior editor at "In Touch Weekly." All right. He beats the smithereens out of her. I`ve got the affidavit for the search warrant right here. While he`s beating her, according to this sworn testimony, with his right hand driving with his left hand, he says "I`m going to beat the F out of you when we get home. You wait and see."

She, Rihanna, picks up the phone, calls her assistant, says I`m on my way home. Make sure cops are there, pretending to talk. He says you just did the stupidest thing ever. Now I`m really going to kill you. Her clothes, inside of the car, covered in blood.

And now, we learn she wants the judge not to issue a no-contact order. Why?

TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR IN TOUCH WEEKLY, COVERING STORY: Well that was the breakthrough as of yesterday because she`s with him now, Nancy. She can`t.

GRACE: Whoa, there she is.

O`NEIL: Yes, they are. As of last week they were down at Diddy`s mansion in Miami kissing and cuddling and carrying on.

GRACE: Excuse me, you said, Diddy?

O`NEIL: Mm-hmm.

GRACE: I assume you are referring to Sean Puffy Combs.

O`NEIL: Yes.

GRACE: I did not realize that you were on a first name basis.

O`NEIL: Well.

GRACE: You are seeing to the left of Rihanna.

O`NEIL: Yes.

GRACE: . the faces of battered women. Women brave enough to let their photos be public after brutal beatings at the hands of their boyfriends, lovers, husbands, exes.

Joining me right now, along with Tom O`Neil, is Yvette Cade. You will remember Yvette Cade, a long time victim of domestic violence whose story culminates when her ex comes into her place of business, at a phone store, and throws acid on her. It has taken her such a long time to rehabilitate.

Miss Cade, what do you make of superstar Rihanna back with her attacker?

YVETTE CADE, VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: I`m appalled. What I just heard is -- is really devastating me because I heard rumors today, I have been praying for her, for some time. And the rumor I heard was that this past weekend her and Chris entertained to get married.

And that is actually my story. I had a fight with my ex husband. At the time he was my boyfriend. And to get out of court I agreed to go to Justice of the Peace and in order for me to stay. Her case will be the public eye and go on about her business. But I think she has made the worst mistake of her life getting back with him.

I believe that she needs time to really think about what she is doing.

GRACE: I agree, Miss Cade. Miss Cade, do you remember -- of course you do -- the moment when your ex set you afire?

CADE: I do. The flames were 1,500 degrees. And it was just by the grace of God that I was able to consciously run to -- run back in the store and get to a sink and spray my face.

GRACE: Everyone, I want to go now to Naomi Goldstein, a reporter joining us via Web-cam.

Naomi, they are so young. It`s really hard to put the burden on Rihanna to speak for battered women across the country. But this is sending an extremely disturbing message. Is it true that, a, they were married over the weekend? And b, that the alleged perpetrator, Chris Brown, was living it up and actually stated he is not sweating it?

NAOMI GOLDSTEIN, NANCY GRACE REPORTER, VIA WEBCAM, COVERING STORY: That`s right, Nancy. Well, we`re not sure about the marriage. I had heard the same rumor that Yvette heard about them getting married at P. Diddy`s mansion in Miami over the weekend. But there`s no actual factual reports on that.

GRACE: OK.

GOLDSTEIN: As far as Chris Brown partying it up after court yesterday, there was reports from TMZ that he was indeed at a local L.A. hotel with his bodyguards until about 3:45 a.m. this morning.

GRACE: To Gloria Allred, it is not uncommon for battered to take the perp back.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: That`s true, Nancy, and here`s my question. Is she an emotional hostage to Chris Brown? And who is enabling her to continue in this relationship? I don`t think Sean Diddy, P. Diddy, or anyone else should be supportive of Rihanna and Chris Brown being together in a relationship at this time.

GRACE: To "CNN HEROES."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.

EFREN PENAFLORIDA JR., CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: Gang members are groomed in the slums as early as 9 years old. They`re all victims of poverty.

I`m Efren Penaflorida Jr. In high school, gangs were very rampant. I felt the social discrimination and I was then -- I was bullied. I got afraid. So we thought of a group to actually divert teenagers be productive. So that`s why we are bringing the classroom to the kids.

We operate the pushcart every Saturday. We teach them language and mathematics. And we also have our hygiene clinic.

RHANDOLF, FORMER GANG MEMBER (Through translator): My gang mates were the most influential thing in my life. I would probably be in jail right now or most likely a drug addict if I hadn`t met Efren.

PENAFLORIDA: Yes, I always tell to my volunteers you are the change you dream, and collectively we are the change that this world needs to be.

ANNOUNCER: Tell us about your hero at CNN.com/Heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The state announcing the death penalty is off the table. Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With all this new evidence coming out nothing has changed at this point. From what I have been told that decision could change any time up until the trial starts. But at this point nothing has changed. The state does not intend as of today to put the death penalty on this case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement officials say they continue to get tips in the case of the missing Florida boy Adji Desir, who was last seen playing outside his grandmother`s home.

GRACE: Tom Smith with the special crimes bureau, Collier County Sheriff`s Office, who`s the lead investigator into Adji`s disappearance.

Lieutenant, thank you for being with us.

LT. TOM SMITH, SPECIAL CRIMES BUREAU, COLLIER CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICE, ON THE CASE: Thank you again for airing Adji`s story. You know, keeping his picture in everybody`s mind is very crucial to finding him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He allegedly began punching her in the arm, causing contusions. She then attempted to send a text message from her phone. Chris Brown allegedly threw that phone out the window. So she picked up his cell phone. He put her in a headlock. Bit her on the left ear. The car swerved. They stopped. More punching ensued. Another headlock.

GRACE: Thousands of pages, stunning documents, inside the tot mom police investigation just released.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last time that Caylee was ever seen alive, June 16th, there was partying on June 20th. So farther on to have the pictures, I think, is evident of a state of mind prosecutors would say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Michael Medders, 25, Avon Lake, Ohio, killed Iraq. A Bowling Green State grad. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. An all Southwestern Conference football star. Loved baseball and basketball. Dreamed of marrying his fiancee. Leaves behind grieving parents, Michael and Lynn, three sisters, beloved fiancee, Stacy.

Michael Medders, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you. A special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, Norm, Liz. And good night from Georgia and Alabama friends of the show, Gaylin, Mary, Dawn, Shay, Jennifer, and Meredith. Aren`t they beautiful?

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/06/ng.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/09/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Father of Missing Girl Proposes to Girlfriend; New Video Surfaces of Caylee Anthony; Prosecutors Question Casey`s Defense Team; Victim of Madoff Angry at Talk of a Plea Deal

Aired March 9, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Haleigh Cummings` grand-grandmother breaks down. The family endures torture, not knowing Haleigh`s fate as the county forces them to move their cam campsite vigil off county property. Why is the county giving this heart-broken family such a hard time about some minor land code?

And 70 miles away, the Caylee Anthony case heats up, as mom Casey is due back in court this week. And we get our hands on more adorable video of little Caylee that fell through the cracks. Why hasn`t the world seen this footage?

Then, shocking news in the Rihanna/Chris brown saga. Oprah issues a stark warning to Rihanna with a frightening prediction. It seems just about everyone has an opinion on this case, except Rihanna`s dad. Reports say he hasn`t spoken to his daughter since the alleged beating. I`ll try to figure out what`s going on.

And where does the violence end? A pastor in Illinois gunned down in the middle of a church service. I`ll have the details.

Plus, outrage escalates as Ponzi mastermind Bernie Madoff schemes for a plea deal as he prepares to go to court this week. Could he escape justice? I`ll talk to one of his furious victims.

And Octomom`s latest publicist quits, saying Nadya Suleman is nuts. Meantime, Octograndpa is back in the media, saying he`ll fight any attempt to separate his daughter from her brood of 14. The octuplets set to be released from the hospital this week. I`ll tell you if they`re going to be coming home.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning new developments tonight in Florida`s twin tragedies: the Caylee Anthony murder case and the disappearance of 5-year- old Haleigh Cummings.

I want to start in Satsuma. Breaking news right off the top. Haleigh`s father, Ron Cummings, has reportedly proposed to his 17-year-old girlfriend, Misty Croslin, the last person to see little Haleigh alive. We will have more details on this shocking engagement announcement and what it could mean.

It has now been one month since little Haleigh went missing from her home. Her family is more emotional than ever. Now, Haleigh`s great- grandmother is speaking out about that fateful night and what may have happened before Ron`s new fiancee, Misty, noticed the little girl was gone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNETTE SYKES, HALEIGH`S GREAT-GRANDMOTHER: I mean, when she got up and came back out, she seen Haleigh gone. When she got up, you know, you get up half asleep and go to the bathroom and you don`t -- you know, you don`t expect your baby to be gone. She noticed, I think, that the light was on. I`m not sure. I just know that, you know, she got up to go to the bathroom. Then when she came back out, the baby went -- there was nobody there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This poor family. As the family continues their desperate search for little Haleigh, backlash growing against Putnam County`s decision to force the Cummings family off the land where they have set up their tents. The county says it`s not a campground and they have to move. The request leaves Ron Cummings stranded, since he refuses to return to the trailer where little Haleigh disappeared.

Is the county kicking this family when they`re down? Shouldn`t the local government be for them, not against them? We`ll explore that question.

But right now, I want to get to the breaking news about this engagement. Stunning stuff.

Joining me, my expert panel. Drew Findling, Atlanta criminal defense attorney; and Sharon Liko, family lawyer and criminal defense attorney. Plus, Dr. Gaby Cora, psychiatrist, as well as reporter Diane Cho from CNN affiliate WJXT.

Let me start with Drew Findling. I thought I`d seen it all, but to see this engagement is quite extraordinary, given that Ron Cummings, the father of the missing child, is marrying -- or says he wants to marry -- he`s getting engaged, reportedly, to the very woman who -- the child disappeared on her watch.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, sometimes when people aren`t even suspects, Jane, they hire a criminal defense attorney just because we`ve been through this process of investigation before. And I wish he had a good attorney, because any good attorney would have told him not a good time to do something like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why not?

FINDLING: Because it`s going to raise the whole suspicion and people are going to be out there, particularly some people in the media that have nothing to do than try to make him a suspect, and say, "Aha, somehow he had something to do with this. Why don`t they get rid of her so he could be alone or be one child less and spend more time with his, you know, 11th- grade-age girlfriend." It`s going to -- it`s going to create suspicion and rumors and create problems that he doesn`t need.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Sharon Liko, also a criminal defense attorney and family lawyer, the first thing the folks in the studio here said, "Oh, spousal privilege, right? That means that one doesn`t have to testify against the other." Does that hold in this case?

SHARON LIKO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, maybe, maybe not. If they are married, then she could assert the spousal privilege. However, if it`s a domestic violence case, that doesn`t apply. So she could be forced to testify. But in most of the country, people seem to think that this is a case of trailer trash versus middle class.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t like to use that -- I don`t like to use that phrase. I find it extraordinarily offensive. I really think that these people have shown tremendous dignity, tremendous dignity in a time that would leave most of us on our knees and perhaps not showing our best selves. And I just find that those kinds of descriptions...

LIKO: I agree with you, but that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... to be highly offensive.

LIKO: And I`m saying that that isn`t the case. The salacious details of the Caylee Anthony case are just so paramount that this case is going to fade away, because it doesn`t have some of the nutcases that the Caylee Anthony case has.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know. I think the word "nutcases" can apply to a lot of people. You know what I mean?

Let`s bring in the shrink. Dr. Gaby Cora, let`s look for the innocent explanation to this engagement proposal. When people are in crisis, when they`re in panic, don`t they have a tendency to come together and hang on to each other? And couldn`t this engagement be a manifestation of that?

GABY CORA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, it could very well be. And that is an extension of that. And life goes on, so to speak. And in a way, it looks like this father had already been engaged with this 17-year- old in some shape or another. So this is just making things a little more formal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Diane Cho, your station broke this story. What can you tell us about this astounding news that has reportedly proposed to Misty?

Oh, OK.

Well, I`ll tell you what, we`re going to go back to Drew Findling. We do not have Diane Cho. But we`re efforting her. I think we have a little sound problem there.

Drew Findling, is this a mountain out of a mole hill or is the timing just too extraordinary for us to just let it be?

FINDLING: Well, look, I mean, if I had been his attorney or consulting the family, I would have just said, "Ron, bad time to do this. Let the focus be on finding your daughter and not on your nuptials." That`s what I would have said.

Now, that being said, I agree with you about the dignity of this family. And why not contrast it to what happened in Anthony? You know, you brought up a good fact when you introduced this. That is, 30 days since Haleigh has been missing.

Well, for 30 days when Caylee was missing, nothing happened. Look at what has happened here. We may not realize the progress that law enforcement has made. They say they don`t have clues, but we don`t know that. We know that they had a 30-day head start.

LIKO: Hang on a second, partner. Let`s look at the fact that this father decides he`s going to marry the girlfriend. I mean, his kid is missing. He doesn`t even know whether she`s alive or dead, and he`s thinking of getting married? What is up with that?

FINDLING: Well...

LIKO: The guy is totally inappropriate to the situation.

FINDLING: Yes, well, I`m agreeing. I`m just saying I would have advised him not to do that.

LIKO: But advice versus just human nature -- does he need a lawyer to tell him not to do something like that? What`s wrong with him?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are young people, you know. These are very young people.

FINDLING: Maybe his upbringing and his relationship with his family and the way that he looks at his father and his mother and their relationship is different than yours. We can`t tell him what is culturally relative...

LIKO: Yes. Well, if your kid was missing, would you be thinking of getting married?

FINDLING: I`m not -- I don`t -- I don`t dare to compare myself to him.

LIKO: I don`t think he has any boundaries, whether it`s age or socioeconomic...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I really feel like -- to be honest with you, I have to jump in and cut you off, Sharon. Because this -- this guy is, to all intents and purposes, a victim here. He lost his child.

FINDLING: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think we should be beating up on him.

FINDLING: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, if he needs the comfort of being married because his heart is broken, how are we who are not living and walking in his shoes...

FINDLING: Exactly. That`s exactly right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... going to judge him? I just find it extraordinary. But, you know, it`s a free country, and we`re listening to your opinion. And you have a right to your opinion. But I`m just responding that I think that we have to give this man the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

Diane Cho, your station broke the story. You`re back with us. Tell us what you know about this engagement.

DIANE CHO, REPORTER: Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, proposed to his 17-year-old girlfriend, Misty Croslin, last night at a Chili`s restaurant in the neighboring city of Palaca (ph). We`re told that he apparently got down on one knee, told her that he loved her and then proposed in the middle of the restaurant in front of several family members.

Now, we spoke to Misty today for the first time, really, in a couple of weeks, and since Haleigh disappeared, this is the first time we`ve also seen a smile on her face. And her seemingly very genuinely happy as they were walking down to the courthouse to fill out the application for the marriage license.

Now, of course, because she is 17 years old, Misty`s mother did have to accompany them down to the courthouse to give the court the OK for this marriage.

Now, Misty also told us that she what thought was that, you know, she thinks that despite what everyone is thinking or what they`re going to say about this after they learn about this news, she says they`re only doing this for one reason. That reason is because of Haleigh.

They say that this is what Haleigh`s wanted all along, since the two of them have gotten together, since they started dating six months ago. They say that Haleigh wanted them to live as a family. So this is what they`re doing, and they hope that when she does return, that this is what she can fulfill for them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Gaby Cora, your thoughts as a psychiatrist?

CORA: There`s many things that we don`t know that may have been going on behind the scenes, and this may explain it. There may be even more things that we don`t -- we`re not aware of.

But, you know, the other -- the other thing that`s so important for us to discuss is the judgment. It looks like so many people have such strong opinions about this. and this family is grieving. And they still don`t know if Haleigh is alive or -- or what`s -- what`s happened to her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Absolutely. We have to always keep compassion in our hearts for this family. I mean, we have no idea what it`s like to go through something like this.

Diane, thank you so much for that report. We`re going to talk to you again a little bit later in this broadcast. Everyone else, hang tight. We have so much to cover.

<snipped to include Haleigh coverage only>

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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Award Raised for Info on Haleigh Cummings; Father of Missing Girl Comforts Cummings Family; Bernie Madoff Expected to Plead Guilty to All Charges

Aired March 10, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a heart-wrenching scene as Haleigh Cummings` family forced to tear down their camp site and move out, but to where?

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: Haleigh, I love you. Your daddy loves you. Please just bring her home.

RON CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I love you very much. We will find you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus Misty Croslin shows off her engagement ring as new details pour in about her upcoming marriage to the missing girl`s father.

And the family of abducted teen Tiffany Sessions, who vanished 20 years ago on the same date as Haleigh, never to reappear, arrives in Satsuma to comfort Haleigh`s relatives.

Then, 70 miles away, stunning news in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Where is Casey Anthony getting the money to pay for her dream team of eight lawyers and famous experts? Prosecutors demanding to know if there`s a secret source for the big bucks. Will Jose Baez spill the answers?

Then shock as reports say Rihanna is recording a duet with Chris Brown, even though he`s facing two felonies for allegedly assaulting her. As the case gets over to focus in on domestic violence, I`ll tell you why their punch drunk love is sending all of the wrong messages.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a community tries not to crumble in the face of a devastating mystery. It was one month ago that a desperate and frantic 911 call alerted authorities that little Haleigh Cummings had disappeared from her home without a trace.

Today, a heart wrenching news conference in Satsuma, Florida, marking the terrible one-month anniversary. Standing before a small army of cops, Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield, broke down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEFFIELD: I just want to say thank you for everybody that`s doing everything. Haleigh, if you`re out there, Mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you. We`ll be right here. Please -- please, whoever has her, bring her home. Please. We need her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her ex, Haleigh`s dad, Ron Cummings, who has just gotten engaged, also made another emotional plea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home, please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want. I want nothing else, but Haleigh, that`s it. Please, if you have her, bring her home. Baby, if you`re watching, you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unfortunately, despite a massive investigation, cops stood before the media today and seemed to acknowledge they have absolutely no idea, not a clue, what happened to this precious 5-year-old.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: I ask this community to please have patience and to bear with us. And we`re looking for that one lead and that one tip that it`s going to take to bring Haleigh home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So today the Justice Coalition, in a desperate bid to get answers let would-be tipsters know that the reward has been upped to $35,000 for information that will hopefully solve this mysterious case.

In the middle of all of this, the Cummings family is being evicted from their camp site. They are tearing down their tents as we speak. Where will this tormented family go to wait for news?

We will be taking your calls on all of this tonight, but first, to my expert panel: Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; Drew Findling, Atlanta-based criminal defense attorney; Pat Brown, criminal profiler, joining us by phone; and Jennifer Bauer from CNN affiliate WJXT.

Jennifer, what is the very latest?

JENNIFER BAUER, WJXT: Well, I think the big news today coming out of Putnam County, Jane, is that the reward has been upped to $35,000. Investigators are telling us they hope the additional money, of course, will bring in new tips, new leads, talking with investigators today.

They say, you know, people all the way from San Diego, California, to Cape May, New Jersey, are really taking an interest in this case. And the FBI field agent who was here at today`s news conference said the FBI is going out of state, handling these calls, these sightings, these tips. The number still remains at 2,400 and the investigators here still remain optimistic.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Pat Brown, criminal profiler, because what I have noticed, and it`s certainly pretty obvious, is that the law enforcement teams operating on this case are being very, very tight- lipped. They`re not saying anything. They`re not saying whether the family passed the polygraph.

Contrast that to the Casey Anthony, case where there were leaks left and right. Do you think this strategy is working in the Haleigh case? It does not appear to be working. Perhaps they should hold a news conference and tell us everything they know, Pat.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, that is the concept, Jane. May have a strategy that we just don`t know at this point. Lots of information that they do believe will eventually bring them in something.

And one of the things that`s very interesting about this case, if you compare it to the Caylee Anthony case, is there are always two options in any child abduction or supposed child abduction: that indeed, a stranger did take the child or the family was involved.

And in Caylee`s case there was a lot of, you know, obviously right away the behavior of Casey Anthony was suspect, so everything kind of focused there, but you will notice that law enforcement still looked around for her. They still didn`t just go with that. They kept their options open.

And I think they`re doing the same thing in this case. There are some concerns with the family, but they`re looking elsewhere.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s the problem, Pat. If they don`t say, OK, for example, this is just one example. The family took their polygraph and passed them. Now, the family said, "We passed them," but the authorities won`t confirm that. So people are sort of, well, we don`t know. They`re not letting their imaginations open up to consider other possibilities. And I think that that is a problem. Do you see what I`m saying?

BROWN: Well, I see what you`re saying, Jane, but I actually don`t think that`s true, because if you take a look at the blogging out there in the blog world, people out there are very, very suspicious of both Misty and Ronald, especially in light of the recent engagement, something that you wouldn`t imagine would happen when you`re focused just on finding this child. It doesn`t make sense that suddenly, you thought, "Oh, let`s think about ourselves and let`s get married and get an engagement ring." Very peculiar behavior.

Actually, a lot of people are looking at that. But I think that`s already out there. So I don`t know quite what the law enforcement are thinking, but I think that they`ve got their plans.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think that you and I are essentially agreeing. I`m saying that assuming that this family is not involved, we should clear them at this point, because that would open the focus and allow people to think of other possibilities and look elsewhere.

DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, I have to say I disagree. Having worked on these cases before, remember that abductors and people of that mindset are often boasters. And if they know -- if they know that that suspicion is still there, then they may possibly boast about what they did. And if they boast and it`s somebody that will respond to $35,000.

So I think there`s a little bit of a strategy in not letting us know. And I think we should probably give credit to law enforcement for keeping that to themselves. And that`s based on years and years of experience.

And I promise you they`re consulting with Quantico on every move they make. If they`re not, they`re truly remiss.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, sure. FBI was there today. I know they`re doing a great job. They`re working very, very hard. We`re just trying to offer alternative possibilities.

Now, Pat Brown, you mentioned the whole idea of the engagement. Haleigh`s cad, Ron Cummings, proposed to 17-year-old Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh Cummings before she disappeared on Sunday. The couple has come under scrutiny, as Pat mentioned, over that decision. Let`s listen to what Misty and her mom, Lisa Croslin, had to say about just that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CROSLIN, FIANCE OF RON CUMMINGS: We`ve been planning this for a while, actually.

LISA CROSLIN, MOTHER OF MISTY: It`s just -- they`ve been getting for me to do it for, like, five months. And I said you all need to wait until you`re 18 and everybody`s trashing them. And I`m going to go ahead and let them do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Additionally, Misty maintains that the engagement is what little Haleigh would have wanted. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. CROSLIN: Everybody might take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything is still focused on Haleigh. This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty showed off her engagement ring today, and we`re going to show you that in a second. Still, some are raising eyebrows, wondering why Ron would, at this particular juncture, marry Misty when his daughter disappeared on Misty`s watch and is still missing, and we still have no idea what happened to her.

Jennifer Bauer, what`s the reaction in the community?

BAUER: I think people at first were pretty shocked. I spoke with Teresa Neves today, who is Haleigh`s paternal grandmother. And she told me they`re doing it because it makes them happy. This is what Haleigh would have wanted. She says this is what Ron Jr., Haleigh`s brother, wants. She says the children talked about it. Ron Jr. still talks about it today.

And she said when Haleigh comes home she`s going to be a flower girl at the wedding. They`re going to have a reception once Haleigh comes home. Of course, the wedding itself possibly taking place at the courthouse, we`re hearing, maybe sometime this week.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jennifer -- Rebecca Rose Woodland, another stress on this Cummings family is that they have to pack up their campground. Why do you think the county is giving them a hard time on this rule that you can`t have a campground at an unofficial camp site for more than 14 days? I mean, to me that sounds like going after people who are not putting their dogs on leashes when there`s a murderer on the loose.

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I guess the county is just trying to do everything by the book. I think they think there`s some conflict. They want to keep everything really quiet here.

As you were saying before, Jane, they really are keeping this very tightlipped, and maybe they`re afraid something in that camp site, something or another there will be some sort of clue that will just go by the wayside.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second. You`re saying this is a strategy.

WOODLAND: I`m thinking so because why would you make these poor people have to remove their campsite? All they want to do is find this poor little girl. So maybe it`s a strategy, and they`re trying to keep everything really tight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll explore that more. Everyone, sit tight. We have lots of ground to cover in this case.

Do you think it was unfair to force the Cummings family to move their camp? Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Let me know your thoughts on this entire case.

And 70 miles away, in the Caylee Anthony case, prosecutors demand to know where Casey is getting all of the money for her dream team of eight attorneys. I will have an update.

But first an emotional news conference with the Cummings family today, made more so because they were forced to move from the spot they have called home for weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: We felt closer to the investigation here. Nobody thought we would be here this long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEFFIELD: Just bring her home. Please. We need her. We need her. Just bring her back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A mother`s desperate plea for her baby girl. Heartbreaking.

We are back with my panel and taking your calls, as we try to figure out why this is such a complete mystery. But first, I want to introduce a very special guest.

Patrick Sessions knows all too well the horror Haleigh`s parents are going through. Twenty years ago Patrick lived their nightmare when his beautiful 20-year-old daughter, Tiffany Sessions, disappeared after going on a jog. She has never been seen since. Period.

In a heart-wrenching coincidence, Tiffany disappeared on the same date as Haleigh. Tiffany`s death was so upset over Haleigh`s disappearance, he drove to Satsuma to visit with the Cummings family.

Patrick, thank you so much for joining us.

PATRICK SESSIONS, DAUGHTER WENT MISSING: You`re welcome. Glad to be here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure it brings up some very painful feelings. Why did you feel the need to reach out to the Cummings? And were you able to comfort them?

SESSIONS: Well, you know, we try to work with other families that, unfortunately, are in the same position we were, and I just felt like this was the time.

We normally get involved earlier, but they had great television coverage, and they had good law enforcement activity. So I didn`t think they really needed us at that point. But I don`t know whether you`ve lost anybody, but people who any through what we`ve anyone through and lost loved ones, you kind of hit a wall at about 30 days. And I just felt like they were hitting that wall. I know I hit it, and I thought it might be a good time to try to show some support.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We`re going to go to so many people lining up to give their thoughts on this case, but I want to ask you a follow-up on your case.

How is it possible in this day and age of forensics and all sorts of high technology that a human being can simply disappear without a trace and it ends up in a cold case file and police don`t have a clue? Does that boggle your mind?

SESSION: Well, it does. I never expected to be to be sitting here 20 years later. But I said before, you don`t have to be a brain surgeon to get away with murder. If you get lucky enough to commit the crime and hide the body and nobody sees it, unless there`s some good evidence there`s nothing to go on.

And unfortunately in Tiffany`s case, there was absolutely no evidence. No witnesses, no forensic evidence, nothing. So it`s a classic whodunit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And my heart goes out to you. I can`t imagine what it`s been like to live with that, not knowing for 20 years.

Now, again, the phone lines lighting up. And let`s go to some of our callers with questions and thoughts.

Ralph from California, your question or thought, sir.

CALLER: Yes, I have a question. Have the police investigated into Misty`s ex-disgruntled boyfriend?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jennifer, what do you know?

BAUER: I don`t know anything about her ex-disgruntled boyfriend. I haven`t heard anything from investigators on them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But does she have an ex? I mean, she`s only, what? Seventeen? She`s pretty young.

BAUER: Yes. All I know, I mean, she`s 17. I know she met Ron when she was 14. I know that they`ve been dating for about the last six months. That`s the only information I know about her past.

But I know her family does live in this same neighborhood where Ronald has his mobile home where he lives with Haleigh and Ron Jr., but beyond that I don`t have any information about any ex-boyfriend.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Kitty in Canada. Your question or thought?

CALLER: I love your show. Who was the last person to see Haleigh other than the dad and the girlfriend?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good question. We`re going to take it back to Jennifer Bauer on that.

BAUER: The grandmother. Great-grandmother, Annette Sykes. She is Ronald`s grandmother, Teresa Neves` mother. She came by the house that night about 7 p.m. She had to drop off some clothing, and I think she did some laundry, helped the family out. She was dropping that off.

She says the kids were eating dinner, and Misty had just made them dinner. And that was the last time she saw Haleigh. And then, of course, as you know, Misty Croslin remembers seeing Haleigh at around 10 p.m.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Donna in Florida, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: I was just wondering how could the father of Haleigh afford to buy a diamond ring for Misty, and you know, Haleigh was sleeping on a mattress on the floor? It just boggles my mind that he would do something, you know, like that. I mean, buy a bed for the baby. I just don`t understand that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Patrick Sessions, because, again, I always say we have no idea what it`s like to walk in the shoes of somebody who has lost a child. And there has been a lot of questions and eyebrows raised over the timing, Patrick, why little missing Haleigh`s father would decide to get engaged right now to the very woman who was there the last time that anybody saw little Haleigh and sort of -- if the child disappeared on her watch. And then you just heard that question.

Could you give us any insight into why they may need to come together at this juncture?

SESSIONS: Well, the first thing, and I`m not sure it`s fact, but I`d understand that the ring was actually the grandmother`s ring, that she gave that to them. If that`s true, that explains some of it.

I think what explains more of it is you all are trying to understand what`s going on in the head of someone who`s lost a child. And I don`t think it`s necessarily the greatest idea either. But I don`t think we should be standing here trying to judge people that are just trying to get through day by day. And I`m sure I did some pretty stupid things during the time -- those first days.

And as I said, they`re hitting a point now where it`s awful hard to divide reality. You can talk about it all you want, but after 30 days, you realize you`ve got a real problem. And the odds are getting worse every day of a happy ending.

So I don`t know what drove it, but I suspect what drove it is just a moment of happiness in an absolutely terrible situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Drew, thoughts on this, because there are some people who have been very harsh. We only have a couple of seconds.

FINDLING: Well, again, I`m going to fall back on my position that I think that somebody in Ron`s position really needs counsel. He needs an attorney, even if he`s not a suspect, to council him through this investigation through this stage.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s an excellent suggestion and, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. I want to thank Patrick Sessions and my excellent panel. Please come back soon.

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NANCY GRACE

Aired March 11, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

<snipped to include Haleigh coverage only>

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please, again, my daughter. Bring her home, please.

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOM OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Balloons with notes to and about Haleigh were brought in before a news conference. Notes written by her family. In the news conference the justice coalition announced they have upped the reward money. Now it totals $35,000 and they`re hopping the money will prompt people to talk.

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: From the backdoor area, you can see that you have to walk up a ramp in order to get into the house. Now, what we do know is that Haleigh was afraid of the dark. And on both sides of the house there is densely wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin strolled out of the Putnam County courthouse Monday afternoon with her mother. She showed off her engagement ring Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, gave her.

MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMING`S FIANCEE: He got down on his knees and everybody is probably going to take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything`s still focused on Haleigh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should we release anything that will bring Haleigh back, we`ll release it even if jeopardize the criminal investigation.

CUMMINGS: I only want Haleigh. That`s all I want.

SHEFFIELD: She`s out there. Mommy loves you. And your daddy loves you. And we miss you. And we`ll be right here (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: GRACE: Little Haleigh snatched in the middle of the night. You`re seeing an exclusive look we had there in the home, trying to determine how far away girlfriend/babysitter Misty Croslin was actually sleeping when, apparently, an intruder came through that bedroom door and took the 5-year-old little girls off this used bed. Just about three feet away from the babysitter and little brother sleeping there in the big bed.

How did it happen? And now we learned the girlfriend/babysitter is set to marry Haleigh`s father. On the heels of that revelation, we learned that the biological mother, Crystal Sheffield, has now hired a lawyer. But why?

To T.J. Hart, the news director at WSKY 97.3. T.J., what can you tell me?

T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIRECTOR, WSKY 97.3FM, COVERING STORY: Well, first of all, she got a hold of a spokesperson, and the spokesperson said that she was going to help her for free and apparently has lined her up with an attorney to help her to deal with the media.

GRACE: To deal with the media.

To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer, who has spent many, many hours with Haleigh`s family. Why do they need help dealing with the media?

SCHIAVO: Well, the family said that it`s been very difficult for them and they need help dealing with the media. But also, Kim Picazio, the attorney you`re talking about who`s representing Crystal Sheffield, is also going to be helping them doing a bunch of other things, coordinating independent searches for Haleigh, talking to authorities, and also she`s going to be looking into potential custody issues.

GRACE: When you say potential custody issues, Marlaina, translation, break it down, dear. Are you saying that the biological mother may fight for custody of the little boy, the little brother?

SCHIAVO: You got it, Nancy. They think that if Haleigh was taken, there`s a possibility that Junior, the younger brother, may be taken as well and they want to protect him in the future.

GRACE: With me, right now, is that attorney, Kim Picazio. She has an excellent reputation. She graduated summa cum laude from Florida State. She has been practicing over a decade.

Miss Picazio, thank you for being with us for your first interview.

KIM PICAZIO, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING HALEIGH`S MOM, FIRST INTERVIEW: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: . after the bio mom hires you. Why does Haleigh`s biological mother need a lawyer?

PICAZIO: Well, I was contacted, as your correspondent has stated, initially to handle the media. But then later we have found out through talking to people in the community and speaking with the police officers, et cetera, as well as speaking with the mother, that there may be some issues involving the minor child, Junior, is what they call the son of Crystal Sheffield, and his sister Haleigh with regard to whether or not he`s in the safest place in the home with the father.

GRACE: Miss Picazio, are you planning to launch a custody battle for the little boy?

PICAZIO: Well, at this time, I was just retained so I would need, of course, to explore all of the issues. I need to talk to everyone involved and so I guess what we first need to do is to go down or up to the town, speak with all of the officials and there are some things that give us grave concerns about the welfare of the child and about Haleigh when she is returned.

GRACE: OK.

PICAZIO: Hopefully safely.

GRACE: Miss Picazio, I understand your concerns. It makes perfect sense to me. If one child is snatched out of the home, what might happen to the next child? I understand that. But let me ask you this. Why did your client lose custody of Junior to start with?

PICAZIO: I need also the court records. I just pulled those today and I have not been down to the town. I`m going to be going tomorrow. And I would prefer to actually read the court documents as opposed to going what the renditions of the parties may be, which may be colored by just the perceptions and their emotions.

But I do know that the mother had retained an attorney prior -- after the original proceeding to seek a modification of custody. And it was my understanding that the mother was not aware of some very important hearings that she was to attend and I need to get to the bottom of that and then we can go from there.

GRACE: Miss Picazio -- everyone, Kim Picazio is joining us today from her first TV interview. She`s joining us out of Plantation, Florida and she has been hired by Haleigh`s biological mother.

Now, Miss Picazio, how long has your client not had physical custody of little Haleigh?

PICAZIO: It`s been for several years and it was -- actually we just found out today that the modification proceeding I don`t believe was ever filed. I need to speak with that attorney that was retained by Miss Sheffield to file that proceeding and I would have to defer to the court documents on that which I am in the process of obtaining.

But, again, there are grave concerns with regard to Junior and with regard to the household that Haleigh would be potentially returned to. There have, of course, been allegations but again, if you can imagine when you.

GRACE: Allegations of what?

PICAZIO: Allegations with regard to what was actually going on in that home prior to Haleigh disappearing and on that night. I mean we`ve got a situation you have a 4-year-old child in the home with a home that`s actually the -- the 7-year-old, I`m sorry, the 5-year-old child had disappeared right under the nose of the babysitter that then we learn is a teenage babysitter who is also living with the father in a romantic relationship.

This is not the first time that he has chosen a teenager to fall in love with and to live with and to watch his children.

GRACE: Are you suggesting, are you suggesting abuse on little Haleigh?

PICAZIO: I`m not suggesting that as of yet and we have not.

GRACE: I`m glad to hear it.

PICAZIO: . uncovered -- we have no uncovered anything as of yet and I`d like to do my own investigation. It`s my understanding the authorities are looking into every single avenue. But I have grave concerns again about the ability and the fitness of the parent who is going to consistently choose teenagers.

GRACE: Well.

PICAZIO: . to watch their children.

GRACE: Well, a couple of points, Miss Picazio, and believe me, I know you are a well-respected member of the bar. But I find it ironic that now is the time when the bio mom is trying to arrange all of her media requests, that she suddenly decides that Haleigh had been in a bad environment.

She`s certainly known all along who the father is dating and according to the judge in your client`s custody case, the mother, your client, did not have a job. The father did. Haleigh missed a total that we know of 12 doctor`s appointments while living with the mother.

Now maybe there`s an explanation for that, but I know the child has Turner syndrome and the mother not only didn`t have a job, but didn`t take the child to the doctor. It`s not like she was working all day and couldn`t make time to take the child to the doctor. I don`t understand that.

PICAZIO: Well, there`s also -- we have to look into the father`s history of taking the child to the doctor. Haleigh was never a child who was well. She had chronic pneumonia and bronchial problems and the father would often leave the children to a teenager who he was living with to drive this child to the doctor on a weekly basis.

GRACE: Why do you speak of Haleigh -- why do you speak of Haleigh in the past tense? I notice that you said Haleigh was a child with a lot of physical problems.

PICAZIO: Because she doesn`t have those physical problems anymore.

GRACE: OK, with me, everyone, Kim Picazio, attorney newly hired, attorney newly retained for Haleigh`s biological mother.

As we go to break, everyone, a very happy birthday to Mary Jane Allen (ph), an inspiration. She`s celebrating her 50th anniversary as an Avon rep, as a little girl, our Avon lady, Miss Mary Long. She`s married to a school bus driver just like my grandfather. They visit our home nearly every Saturday and sit down and have lunch with us.

You remind me of her, Mary Jane, happy birthday.

And tonight thoughts and prayers to Delray Beach, Florida friend of the show in the hospital, Miss Evelyn Tecker (ph). She never misses a show.

Evelyn, please stay strong and I hope they`ve got HEADLINE NEWS there in the hospital.

Case alert. It`s is the four-year anniversary of the Atlanta courthouse shootings. Brian Nichols overpowering a sheriff`s deputy, beginning a long and bloody rampage, leaving four dead. A memorial service today for family and friends of victims tonight.

We remember Judge Rowland Barnes, Deputy Hoyt Teasley, court reporter Julie Brandau and federal agent David Wilhelm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: If I have something, she wants it. So if we buy something for me, we buy the same thing for her. Our shoes, me and Haleigh had the same pair of shoes. She wanted me to have pink and white, the one just like her. So me and her are like pretty much -- we try to do everything together.

I just want to let everybody know that I was home, because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police told you you passed?

CROSLIN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We learned tonight that the biological mother of little Haleigh has felt it important to hire a lawyer. But why?

Back to Robin Sax, Penny Douglass Furr, Daniel Horowitz.

Daniel, what do you make of it?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t like it, Nancy. What I heard from that attorney is that this terrible incident is now being turned into an excuse to start a custody battle. And it`s not what it`s about.

There is a danger to this young boy who is still in the home. He should be out of there. But this attorney is essentially implying that something.

GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Horowitz?

HOROWITZ: . was done by this soon-to-be stepmother. Yes.

GRACE: You know, you and I were covering the Elizabeth Smart case at the same time, and I never heard you talking about them in this manner, that because Elizabeth Smart was taken out of the home in the middle of the night that all the children should be taken from their custody, never heard that.

Also never heard you say that in the Danielle Van Dam case out in California. She and her little brother asleep in the home in the middle of the night. She is taken by David Westmoreland (sic), the next door neighbor. You never said all of the children should taken away. Why now?

HOROWITZ: Well, because it`s a safety issue.

GRACE: Really?

HOROWITZ: It`s not a moral judgment on their part.

GRACE: Really? What`s the difference?

HOROWITZ: I think that there`s -- you don`t what.

GRACE: Because these people don`t have a lot of money and they live in a mobile home, so they should lose the children?

HOROWITZ: No, because somebody -- no, Nancy, you know better than that.

GRACE: Well, give me a reason.

HOROWITZ: It`s because -- because somebody got into that home.

GRACE: Yes?

HOROWITZ: . leaving no sign of entry, we don`t know who it is, but we suspect that it was somebody close to them because you don`t get a little kid.

GRACE: Oh, really?

HOROWITZ: . out of that house and know that the kid is there unless you know what`s going on. That`s why there`s still a danger.

GRACE: Sounds just like the other cases I just rattled off to you.

Robin Sax, what about it? If this were true every time a child is kidnapped, you could take the children away from the parents.

ROBIN SAX, PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR OF "PREDATORS & CHILD MOLESTERS": That -- you bring up an excellent point. I also think it`s an interesting point to think about whenever the defense attorney is advising a client. He would no doubt recommend that that client should absolutely have counsel representing them and shut your mouth and have counsel.

And I don`t think in this situation where you`ve got the best interests of the parents and the best interests of the child being evaluated by everyone in the media and by the court system that it`s surprising, actually, that she has a lawyer.

GRACE: Special thanks to Kim Picazio, speaking to us tonight for the first time, the attorney for Haleigh`s mother, Crystal Sheffield.

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NANCY GRACE

Aired March 12, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

<snipped to include Haleigh coverage only>

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haleigh Cummings has been missing over a month now and a new search is breaking out. What happens on the same day? Her dad Ronald Cummings is marrying Misty Croslin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin is the last person who saw Haleigh exactly one month ago when she tucked her into this toddler bed in her room. But when she woke up, Haleigh was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin says the focus is still on Haleigh and that the wedding is just what the 5-year-old would have wanted.

MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMINGS` FIANCEE: Everybody knows that I love Haleigh, and Ronald and Junior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have gone door to door. They`ve interviewed Haleigh`s family members several times. They`ve received 2,000 tips.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pieces of evidence had been collected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators removed the door from the home where Haleigh disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron and Misty were questioned late again yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Putnam County, Florida started a new search today in a new area. Authorities tell us the area has not been searched before, but the search is not the result of a tip.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Baby, if you`re watching you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Art Harris, investigative journalist at www.artharris.com. Art, what`s the latest?

ART HARRIS, WWW.ARTHARRIS.COM, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: The latest, Nancy, is they searched this 17 -- stretch of road along highway 17 looking for something that may have been thrown out of a car, but no details on what that was.

At the same time, investigators are examining a door they`ve taken off the back of Ronald`s home where the alleged kidnapper of Haleigh entered.

GRACE: What can you tell me about, number one, them getting married, and number two, a potential custody battle?

HARRIS: Well, the marriage happened today, a small family ceremony. It was reportedly a beautiful ceremony in a small Baptist church. And the -- as for the custody fight, you have a former -- you know, the former fiancee, wife, mother of Haleigh and little brother Ronald who wants her children back.

She wants custody. Does not think that Ronald is in a safe environment. Has hired an attorney, a veteran family lawyer from Florida Kim Picazio to examine the records to get 200 pages of court transcript and to try to re-open a custody hearing that she does not think was fair to the mother.

GRACE: Out to T.J. Hart with WSKY, 97.3. T.J., what can you tell me about the marriage that went down just a couple of hours ago?

T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIR., WSKY 97.3FM, COVERING STORY: Really not much. It was pretty much a secret as far as the location was. It turned out to be at a very small church in the area. Sources from the family tell us that it was a beautiful ceremony, and we understand that they`re going to be honeymooning in New York.

GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer who has spent hours and hours with Haleigh`s family. So cops converged today at the home and they tear off the back door as Art Harris has just reported. Why now, Marlaina?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: When I spoke to Captain Schauland earlier I asked him that very question and he just said it`s part of an ongoing investigation and he wouldn`t elaborate on why they took the door now a month after Haleigh went missing.

GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator, author of "Cyber Lies," why take the door now, John?

LUCICH: They really should have taken the door off when they got the information and I believe it was cousin Joe who had an MO, modus operandi, of doing this in the past when he committed burglaries. That would have been the exact time to take it off. Why wait all this time? They must be operating on a tip, but they really should have taken that door back then just -- they`re looking for tool marks and they`re looking for a lot of other different things, but they should have taken it back then.

GRACE: Joining me right now Kim Picazio. She is the attorney for Haleigh`s biological mother. She has just hired an attorney.

Kim, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about an independent search that you plan to organize?

KIM PICAZIO, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING HALEIGH`S MOM: Well, Nancy, we have just rolled up in the small town where Haleigh was raised. I`ve just attended a candlelight vigil for Haleigh for the mother`s camp and I am right now holding a candle in my hand that I received at that candlelight vigil, a candle I`ll keep the rest of my life.

With regard to a custody battle, first and foremost, wanted to say that our priority at this time is the search for Haleigh, is to get her returned home safe and sound. However, it`s come to our attention we may have two emergencies on our hand. Not only do we have Haleigh who is out there somewhere who needs to be found, but we also have an emergency.

We`ve had -- we talked to dozens of people today. We feel that dozens of tips and in our search for Haleigh and talking with witnesses, we received credible evidence that we believe that Junior is definitely at risk, remaining in the home of Mr. Cummings.

And with regard to a custody issue, I don`t even if know if it would be appropriate to have a litigation going on in a family court, the most appropriate scenario would probably be Department of Children and Families is getting involved because I think that it`s reached an unsafe level for this child.

And with regard to our private efforts, again, we just rolled into town. I`ve got several of my people that I brought in. We`re going to be setting up a command center tomorrow. There`s a small town America. Everyone is, you know, giving us tips, treating us well. We`re going to be exploring every single avenue and, again, we`re just talking to witnesses and getting, you know, any type of private information we can from people who may not necessarily be at liberty to go to the police or may not be just comfortable to do so.

GRACE: Well, Kim Picazio, don`t you believe that you`re going to need a lot more evidence than what an estranged non-custodial, biological mother and her family and friends tell you about how much danger the children are in?

PICAZIO: Absolutely, and what we`ve done is we`ve gone to outside sources and the information that we have gotten that we are going deliver to the proper authorities was not information that was gotten from the biological mother, interestingly enough.

It was gotten from people that had been with Ronald in the past, had personally witnessed physical abuse of the children. And we intend to bring the information that we have to the proper authorities so that they can investigate it.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Back to Marlaina Schiavo. Exactly where is the dad, Ronald Cummings, and now his wife, the girlfriend/babysitter, the last person to have seen little Caylee alive -- little Haleigh alive?

SCHIAVO: Right now, Nancy, they are in Satsuma. They just got married. They are with their family. And we`re told that they`ll be heading to New York tonight because they`ll be appearing on a network show tomorrow morning as newlyweds.

GRACE: To Diane in Wisconsin, hi, Diane.

DIANE, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: Hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

DIANE: Well, I just want to say, your twins are beautiful.

GRACE: Thank you.

DIANE: And I have two sets of twins.

GRACE: You lucky lady. What`s your question, dear?

DIANE: I was wondering, isn`t it in that state being 17 too young to get married?

GRACE: Apparently in that jurisdiction with the parents` consent, it is not. The mother had withheld consent until age 18 but changed her mind following the disappearance of little Haleigh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are here to speak directly to the person or persons who knows something, anything about the disappearance of this little girl. It`s not all about the money. It`s all about doing the right thing. Even if it means that you have to be held accountable for your actions, do the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us from L.A.. Weigh in, Bethany.

MARSHALL: Well, I think it`s reprehensible that Crystal Sheffield is using this tragedy as an occasion to reopen a custody hearing. She lost those children years ago in a court of law. I also think if those children are endangered, call Child Protective Services. Have them come out and do a welfare check.

And if Junior is in danger, they will remove him from the home. But as I see it, this is sort of an unnatural procedure to go and do your own investigation behind the scenes. And I don`t think it will look good for the mother if they go back to family court.

GRACE: To Deanna in Georgia, hi, Deanna.

DEANNA, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy. Your show is invaluable. Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?

DEANNA: My question is, has Ronald`s work -- has it been verified he was at work the night Haleigh went missing? And I`d also like to make a comment. I really think it would -- I think it`s inappropriate that he would go and be married at a time like this. I would have not had that on my mind. I would be searching night and day. But that`s my question. Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. T.J. Hart, got the answer to any of that?

HART: Yes, the answer to that was, yes, it was verified that he was at work by his employer and also by law enforcement following up.

GRACE: And the family is saying this is what little Haleigh wanted. She wanted them to be married. I know the timing is a little off, but so be it.

Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Christopher Bartkiewicz, 25, Dunfermline, Illinois, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart and Bronze Star. Remembered as a go-to soldier you could always count on. Dreamed of serving the military since growing up in the military bases in North Carolina.

Leaves behind grieving widow, Emily, three daughters.

Christopher Bartkiewicz, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And a special good night from friends of the show, UGA students, honor students, Dan and Katherine. Aren`t they precious?

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END
 
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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Why Different Stories of Missing Girl?; Father Says Focus Should be on Haleigh; Rihanna-Chris Brown Outrage; Drugged to Death?

Aired March 13, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, strange love as Ronald Cummings, dad of missing 5-year-old Haleigh, ties the knot with girlfriend Misty Croslin. The two appear on "The Today Show" after yesterday`s massive ground search. Seemingly grasping for straws, cops reexamine inconsistencies in Misty`s story.

Meantime, Ron says Haleigh`s mom, Crystal, made up the story about Haleigh`s little brother seeing a man in black take his sister.

And shocking news as Anna Nicole Smith`s boyfriend is charged with eight felonies. Howard K. Stern accused of giving Smith thousands of prescription drugs leading up to the starlet`s deadly overdose in 2007. You will not believe the sheer number of pills authorities are talking about.

Then a crucial part of Casey Anthony`s defense strategy finally revealed as her dream team battles over more hair they say they found in Casey`s car.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I saw my daughter`s car today. And it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could it be a break for Casey?

Plus, scandalous details emerge about the reported duet between Rihanna and alleged batterer, boy toy Chris Brown. Reports say it`s a sweet song about the challenges of love. The list of powerful women calling for Rihanna to leave Brown is piling up.

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": FYI, I`m a woman, and I don`t have Brown`s back on this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When will Rihanna get the message?

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely stunning news in the Haleigh Cummings investigation tonight. Authorities are reportedly questioning the many inconsistencies given to them by the missing girl`s new step-mom.

In a wedding shocker, Haleigh`s father Ron and his teen girlfriend Misty tied the knot in his grandmother`s backyard yesterday. The couple didn`t plan a honeymoon, but they did fly to New York to appear on NBC`s "Today Show." That`s where Misty, who was in charge of watching little Haleigh when the child disappeared, offered this stunning revelation about a recent shouting match with cops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CROSLIN, WIFE OF HALEIGH`S FATHER: There was a new guy that was new to the case, and I didn`t feel comfortable with him. He was just being very rude to me. And I told John Merchant and the state attorneys I would talk to them, but I wasn`t going to talk to.

MEREDITH VIEIRA, CO-HOST, NBC`S "THE TODAY SHOW": What was he doing?

CROSLIN: He was rude, like yelling and telling me I`m a liar.

VIEIRA: So he was accusing you of lying to him?

CROSLIN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is Misty getting defensive, given all the questions regarding her story about what happened the night little Haleigh went missing? "Today Show" host Meredith Vieira pressed Misty on those inconsistencies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIEIRA: Why were there -- help me out, Misty. Why were there inconsistencies? Why would you say one thing one time and one time the other?

CROSLIN: I don`t know.

VIEIRA: But you know you did do that?

CROSLIN: Yes.

VIEIRA: And you`re not sure why?

CROSLIN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She looks like a child to me. Is this the uncertainty of a 17-year-old or something else again?

Also, Ron lashed out at his ex, Haleigh`s biological mother. Remember that story from Haleigh`s little brought J.R. about a man in black taking Haleigh? Ron accused Haleigh`s mom, Crystal, of making all that up. But why? Why on earth would she have any reason to derail this investigation into finding her own daughter? Is this just part of the deepening rift between mother and father?

Right now, I am joined by my fantastic panel: Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator; Jennifer Hartstein, clinical psychologist; and joining us by phone, T.J. Hart, program and news director at WSKY 97.3 FM.

T.J., you`ve broken a lot of details on this story. What is the very latest?

T.J. HART, WSKY NEWS DIRECTOR: The very latest right now, I just got off the phone with Captain Dick Schauland. I was talking about Misty`s appearance on television today.

And also a few things that she said in the past about passing the polygraph, to which he said the FBI takes that polygraph. No one knows if you completely pass or completely fail. Every question is pass/fail. And to blatantly say that you passed the polygraph is, well, maybe a bit disingenuous.

He also says that she continue to be the focal point of this because of those inconsistencies that was pointed out once again on the program this morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Steve Kardian, you`re a former criminal investigator. To me, this young lady looks like a child. She`s a very young-looking 17-year-old.

Would it be possible for someone to have the sophistication to go on national television and lie in this way? I mean, either this woman is a very gifted liar or she`s a very young girl who is caught in a firestorm and doesn`t know exactly how to handle it.

STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: It could be a combination of both, Jane. She doesn`t have an answer today. She didn`t have an answer the night that she reported the child missing. And I don`t think she`s going to have an answer in the future.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just look at her, and I see somebody who might have been like a deer in the headlights when you say inconsistencies because in her defense, if somebody asks you something three or four times, you`re not going to say it as if it`s a script. And I`ll bring this to our psychologist, Jennifer Hartstein. You`re going to say it in different ways.

Oh, did you walk the dogs this morning? "Well, yes, I took them both out." Then if they ask me again, "Yes, well I went down the stairs." They ask me again, "Yes, well, we talked south." You see what I`m saying? It`s going to change a little bit. That doesn`t mean that I`m lying each time.

JENNIFER HARTSTEIN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, you`re just offering more information each time. And that`s really what it comes down to. And the question you have is initially she`s on the defensive. And so many times, with teenagers, their first reaction is to protect themselves, protect the situation. They want to get defensive. And then little by little, they`ll let out more and more information.

So there`s bold-faced lying. And maybe it`s a lie of omission in that maybe she`s remembering more things, remembering more details each time, which tweak the story a little bit. And it`s letting us know what`s true, what`s not true, the reality. And she`s so young. I mean, and who knows the maturity level overall.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s get into this. Part of what has been so very bizarre about this search for little Haleigh has been these changing stories by Misty about what happened that night. So this morning, she was flat-out asked on "The Today Show" if cops suspect her of anything. This is what she said. Let`s listen carefully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIEIRA: And, Misty, as you sit here, do you believe in your heart that they see you as a suspect?

CROSLIN: No, I don`t.

RON CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH: I don`t either. I talked to a lead detective. His name is John Merchant.

VIEIRA: And he said?

CUMMINGS: Nope. He doesn`t think that she`s a suspect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, you heard that, T.J. You`ve been speaking to investigators. Is there an inconsistency between what the cops told you and what you just heard from "The Today Show" this morning?

HART: I think we`re talking apples and oranges. He says that the inconsistencies are focal point. He didn`t say Misty was a suspect. And that`s the difference there. So they`re going by the information that goes in a couple of different directions by the inconsistent statements.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Paul Callan, if she`s not a suspect, why not come out and say that, because this girl is under a lot of heat and a lot of pressure with everybody asking her.

And the suspicion is fueled by this information vacuum where authorities won`t confirm whether she passed the polygraph, or whether she`s still a suspect or not. Or ever was a suspect. In other words, they haven`t eliminated anybody as a suspect, but the focus has been on her because she was the last person, the last adult to see little Haleigh before she disappeared.

PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course, and I think, Jane, it`s a stretch even to call her an adult. She`s 17 years old. And as you`ve indicated, you know, at that age, you know, everybody maybe has a tough time telling the same story twice the same way.

But I think she has not been ruled out. I mean, this is a wide-open investigation. Her story has got real holes in it anyway. I mean, this whole thing about, you know, her being in the house when the child was taken away and was she in the bathroom, or was she in the kitchen, who was in the bedroom. There are a lot of inconsistencies. And the police certainly are not going to rule her out definitively until their investigation is completed. So I`m not at all surprised that they`re unwilling to rule her out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there`s something here that doesn`t add up. Rebecca Rose Woodland, everybody is talking about how she`s this kid, this 17-year-old, not sophisticated, but yet if, in fact, she were hypothetically involved in some way, she would have had to have pulled off something incredibly sophisticated to elude searches by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of law enforcement authorities who are -- who are digging and searching all in that area.

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, Jane, really, she doesn`t seem sophisticated at all. She seems quite like you said before, a deer in the headlights. And she was on "The Today Show" and Ms. Vieira asked her that question. She just kind of sat there and didn`t know what to say. She looked at her now-husband, which is, again, bizarre.

I mean, this whole story has taken some bizarre turns, but the reality is, there is a missing child. And to have a child go missing with absolutely no clue and a 17-year-old be responsible, wow. This is really a fascinating development. But I -- it`s hard to say that she could have possibly done this or acted alone.

CALLAN: Hey, Jane -- Jane, can I jump in on this husband/wife thing, too?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

CALLAN: Because this is a question that`s come up to me all day long. People are asking this. Did he marry her, this 17-year-old girl, so that the spousal privilege, the husband/wife privilege will prevent the cops from doing further investigation?

You know, a lot of people may not be aware, but there`s a husband/wife privilege, and the police cannot question a husband about what his wife did in a crime and vice versa. So people are asking is that why he married her or is that why she married him?

The answer is, by the way, no, it can`t be, because that privilege only applies when people are married to each other. It would not prevent questioning about the disappearance of the child here. So it`s just a question that I think a lot of people are asking. Because you know, why is he marrying a 17-year-old girl at this time in this place? It just seems so inappropriate.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But your nuanced interpretation of the law is something that they might not be aware of.

CALLAN: Well, they may not be. You`re absolutely right about that. Maybe they need a good lawyer, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We hear about spousal privilege in movies, you know and take our cues from the movies. All right, guys. Hang tight. Much more to come on the Haleigh Cummings case.

In other shocking news tonight, Anna Nicole Smith`s boyfriend charged with giving the starlet thousands of drugs that led ultimately to her fatal overdose. I will have the very latest.

And after getting married, Misty Croslin back under the microscope, as we`ve been saying. Cops looking at inconsistencies in her story. Here is one account of Haleigh`s disappearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: Usually Haleigh will wake up at nighttime. She gets cramps in her legs, you know. And I have to rub her legs to get the cramps out of her legs to get her back to sleep. And, you know, she didn`t make no noise that night. I would have woke up if I heard anyone. I didn`t hear anything at all. I was really exhausted that day, you know, really exhausted when I lay down, I guess. And I just was out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I just want to say thank you for everybody doing everything. Mommy loves you and your daddy loves you. We miss you. We`ll be right here. Please, bring her home. Please. We need her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back with my fantastic panel. Just yesterday, authorities conducted an intensive search with about 100 officers. I understand, T.J. Hart, it was just a couple of miles from the Cummings home. Tell us about this search.

HART: This search was there at Buffalo Bluff road, which is the turn- in road off U.S. 17 that leads back into hermit`s cove where they live in Satsuma. It was on U.S. 17 between County Road 309 and Union Avenue, Crescent City. For the first time, they took a little bit of that -- of that trip about 30 miles out of either side to see if anything had been tossed out along the road, which is a major artery through the area. Nothing helpful to the case was found. But some other evidence closer to home was taken in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What? Any idea?

HART: Yes. It was the home -- it was the back door to the mobile home where Ronald Cummings lived with Misty Croslin and the two children. Now, that house had been taken -- had been taken personally apart by investigators earlier, but they tore off the door and took that into the FDLE, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, for more forensic testing. And God only knows what they`re going to find. I know that I`ve got a fingerprint on there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Yes. How did you get a fingerprint on there?

HART: Doing the -- doing shows for CNN from the house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So Steve Kardian, too little too late? Maybe they should have taken that door the very first day.

KARDIAN: Oh, I agree. They should have taken that the very first -- the very first day, Jane, to compare that with anything that has developed up to that point and/or in the future. That`s something they should have done earlier.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I heard that there was no tip involved in this latest search. Rebecca Rose Woodland, I find that hard to believe, that they would have 100 officers descending on an area and searching intensively based on absolutely no tip. Do you buy it?

WOODLAND: No. I don`t. I don`t buy a lot of this. The door absolutely, why did we not have that door taken off immediately? Because the allegation is -- or let`s say the story is that she`s sleeping, Misty is sleeping, Haleigh is sleeping next to her on the bed on the mattress on the floor, odd, and the child disappears. That means someone -- either she walked out of the home, so her fingerprints would be on the door anyway, or someone entered the home, as we saw in the Jessica Lunsford case years ago, where that man entered the home and took the child out.

Well, if that`s the case, why wouldn`t -- why wouldn`t we look at the door? And there must be something. Why are they focusing on that one area on, what did we say, Route 17? Why are they focusing on that main swamp area for evidence or something thrown out of a car? Maybe someone called and said, "Hey, that night I remember seeing something strange or bizarre."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they`re saying no tip whatsoever.

WOODLAND: I know. Come on, Jane. Maybe they don`t want to reveal it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why go out of their way to say no tip whatsoever? That`s what I`m saying. Say nothing at all?

KARDIAN: Jane, it would appear that their efforts have been concentrated on that area, are going to tell you a couple of things. No. 1, that they don`t have anything that`s directing them outside that area and/or, No. 1, that they do have some information that they`re not revealing that is making them concentrate on that area.

CALLAN: Well, or there`s a third possibility also, Steve, and that is, of course, that maybe they`re totally lost at this point. They don`t know where to look. And they`re just randomly selecting areas close to the home to search. And that`s a really bad sign for this child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It sure is. There`s reportedly also another bad sign, a deepening rift between Haleigh`s dad, Ron, and Haleigh`s mom, Crystal. He now questions the story of the man in black. Remember what Crystal said last month? Let`s listen carefully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I know this sounds crazy, but to the best of your recollection, what were his exact words?

SHEFFIELD: He said, "Mommy, I want to find my sissy, and some man in black come in and took her."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. But on NBC`s "Today Show" this morning, Ron was quizzed about this mysterious piece of the investigation. Watch how this information differed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIEIRA: Your 4-year-old son and the fact that he said that somebody, a man dressed in black, had taken Haleigh out of the -- the trailer that night she disappeared. Did he tell that to either one of you? Misty, you were there at the time. Did he say anything to you at the time?

CROSLIN: Huh-uh.

VIEIRA: Nothing?

CROSLIN: No.

CUMMINGS: Me either. I think this is some of the garbage that Geraldo and Crystal, the mother, has made up, but I`m just going to leave that at that.

VIEIRA: So you don`t even believe that Ronald Jr. said this at all?

CUMMINGS: I don`t know. I wasn`t at home. I was at work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wasn`t at home. That has nothing to do with it. Why would the mother have any reason to derail the investigation by making something up like this, Jennifer Hartstein, as a psychologist. It doesn`t make sense to me. Is this part of the deepening rift between mother and father?

HARTSTEIN: It could be. I mean, what motivation does she have? You`re right. She wants to find her daughter. You know, so there is definitely going to be a he said, she said, who`s in charge. She`s probably blaming him because Haleigh was in her house -- in his house, all of these things.

But there`s also the issue that it`s a 4-year-old child. And initially people descend on the house. He`s going to be frightened and afraid to say anything. So he`s going to -- and he sees his father uber worried with his girlfriend, now wife. He`s not going to know what to do. So he`s got to figure out who to go to, to talk to. Maybe he was more comfortable saying it to the mom. Maybe there isn`t anything and he`s trying to make everybody happy. There`s -- who knows the motivation of a 4-year-old?

And the issue between the two of them not being on the same page is really going to cause bigger problems overall.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and we only have about five seconds, but you had mentioned that it seems like Misty looks to Ron for answers. Five seconds. That has to tell you something, doesn`t it?

HARTSTEIN: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.

I want to thank my excellent panel. To another high-profile case. Casey Anthony`s defense team in a fierce, and I mean fierce, battle over key evidence. We`re talking hair. Could this be a big break for Casey`s defense

<end of Haleigh coverage>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/13/ijvm.01.html

[Sassycat]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

NANCY GRACE

Cummings Girlfriend Not Ruled Out as Suspect in Haleigh Disappearance

Aired March 16, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Bombshell. In the last days, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, legally marries the last person to see little Haleigh alive, the girlfriend/baby-sitter allegedly sleeping in the bed next to Haleigh the night she`s kidnapped. The two jet to New York to honeymoon in the midst of the search for Haleigh, courtesy NBC`s "Today" show, but when given the chance to clear up inconsistencies in that live appearance fumble.

Now more questions as Florida police reiterate Misty Croslin Cummings has not -- repeat, not -- been cleared as a suspect and that they, too, can`t seem to get answers about the night Haleigh vanishes. In fact, police insist no one`s ruled out. They`re trying desperately to build a timeline but say inconsistencies in Croslin`s story cost them crucial time.

And tonight, is a custody battle brewing over Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother? Haleigh`s mother hiring a lawyer and now her own PI. Primetime exclusive tonight, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, not afraid to answer questions. He is with us live tonight. Tonight, where is 5- year-old Florida girl Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a wedding shocker, Haleigh`s father, Ron, and his teen girlfriend, Misty, tied the knot in his grandmother`s back yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some critics say the timing is just downright wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After all he`s been through, I think it`s OK that he has a happy moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And after getting married, Misty Croslin back under the microscope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Croslin was the last one to see Haleigh alive. She`s the one who tucked her into bed.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: She was the last one to see her. She had nothing do with this. I had nothing do with this.

MISTY CUMMINGS, STEPMOTHER: I was home because I did pass my lie detector test saying that I was home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one knows if you`ve completely passed or completely failed. Every question is pass/fail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meantime, Ron says Haleigh`s mom, Crystal, made up the story about Haleigh`s little brother seeing a man in black take his sister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh, if you`re watching, Mommy loves you and I miss you and I want you to come home!

CUMMINGS: Please bring her home. Please bring her home safe. And if she`s watching, baby, I love you. I`ll never give up on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Tonight, lawyers heading back to court to try and force brother Lee Anthony to answer questions he refuses to address during sworn testimony. What is it? The question? Who is Caylee`s biological father? Why won`t brother Lee just simply answer the question? What`s there to hide?

And still tonight, no answer. Is there a plea deal on the table, a deal for a lighter sentence for tot mom? The Orlando jail secretly recording tot mom privately meeting with her lawyer minutes after she watches live TV when Caylee`s skeleton discovered. Sources inside the investigation reveal tot mom looked, quote, "fidgety" during the coverage and downright hostile in that meeting moments later. Little did she know it was all caught on grainy surveillance video.

Tot mom`s lawyers fighting mad. They do not want the video released nor video questioning of the lady sheriff who was actually with tot mom the day little Caylee discovered. What can this lady sheriff reveal?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: She`s not far. I know in my heart she`s not far. I can feel it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a human skull.

911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh. What`s the location?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the...

911 OPERATOR: Oh!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUMMINGS: Is one of the possibilities that has gone through your mind that your sister was the one responsible for the disappearance?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m instructing you not to answer that question.

CUMMINGS: Do you know who the father of Caylee...

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I do not know...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Certify.

LEE ANTHONY: ... with 100 percent...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have to answer that question.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m being watched at all times.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This new video that we are learning about is Casey Anthony with her attorney, Jose Baez. Our sources are telling us that it appears Joe Baez is crying in this video, Casey Anthony with her arms crossed, looking away into the distance.

CASEY ANTHONY: We don`t want this to any longer be a tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Primetime exclusive. Police confirm no one, including Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh alive, is cleared as a suspect. Tonight, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, not afraid to answer questions, with us live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A day after getting married in the back yard of his grandmother, Ronald and now Misty Cummings were in New York answering questions on national TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what to make of it. It bothers me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the other issues brought up is Misty`s story about what happened that night here at the Cummings` home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin, now Misty Cummings, was the last who saw the 5-year-old.

MISTY CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE) and she`s gone. And that`s all I know!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has been questioned now for over 30 hours with detectives, and still no solid timeline.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her story`s changed several times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn`t have an answer today. She didn`t have an answer the night that she reported the child missing. And I don`t think she`s going to have an answer in the future.

RONALD CUMMINGS: My daughter came up missing out of my house in the middle of the night.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE)

MISTY CUMMINGS: I just woke up and my back door was all open, and I can`t find my daughter.

911 OPERATOR: OK, when did you last see her?

MISTY CUMMINGS: We were just, like -- you know, it was about 10:00 o`clock. She was sleeping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty at first said Haleigh was in bed with her, then changed that to say Haleigh was in her own bed.

MISTY CUMMINGS: I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police believe someone snatched the 5-year-old from her Satsuma home. They say, at this point, everyone`s a suspect.

RONALD CUMMINGS: Please, all I want is my child. That`s it. I just want my daughter back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police reiterating no one has been cleared as a suspect in the disappearance of this 5-year-old Florida girl, little Haleigh. Tonight, not afraid to answer questions on camera, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings joining us in a primetime live exclusive. Also with him, Haleigh`s grandmother, Teresa Neves. You know Ms. Neves by now, appearing nearly every night, asking for your help in finding little Haleigh.

But first to T.J. Hart with WSKY 97.3. T.J., people are attacking the family, claiming there are inconsistencies in the baby-sitter`s -- now Ronald Cummings`s wife -- story. What are the inconsistencies in a nutshell?

T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3 FM: In a nutshell, it is basically the timeline of what time that -- who was in what bed and what time everything had took place, according the Putnam County sheriff`s office.

GRACE: I want to go to Ronald Cummings joining us tonight, he and his mother begging for your help in finding little Haleigh. Ronald, thank you for being with us -- to both of you. Ronald, as I see it, there are three main inconsistencies in Misty Croslin -- now Cummings -- statement. Number one, when she called police. Number two, why she went to a bathroom far away from where Haleigh was, as opposed to the one right there in the master bedroom. And possibly most significantly, an alleged inconsistency about where she was sleeping and where Haleigh was sleeping the night she was kidnapped.

Let`s take that one off the top. What did Misty tell you that night - - not later, but that night -- about where Haleigh was sleeping?

RONALD CUMMINGS: She told me that she was sleeping in the -- her and Junior were sleeping in my queen-size bed and that she was sleeping in the tot bed beside her.

GRACE: OK, and we have...

RONALD CUMMINGS: Three or four feet from her...

GRACE: ... gone into your home -- yes. Ronald, you have allowed...

RONALD CUMMINGS: So you know how far away it is.

GRACE: ... us into your home. We have that video. Elizabeth, let`s show exactly what Mr. Cummings is referring to. Now Ronald, how did it get so bassackwards that people construed it as them sleeping together in the same bed, Misty, Junior, your son, and Haleigh? How did that happen? How was that miscommunicated?

RONALD CUMMINGS: Ms. Nancy, I have no -- no answer for you. I don`t know how it was miscommunicated.

GRACE: Is that what she told police, Ronald? Did she tell police at any time that she was in the bed with little Haleigh?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I wasn`t there when she was questioned by police, Ms. Nancy.

GRACE: OK. Here`s the next question. Why didn`t she call cops immediately when she realized Haleigh was missing? Explain to us the timeline. What happened?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I pulled into the yard. The front door was wide open. She was standing in it. I asked her what she was doing up. She told me that the back door was wide open and Haleigh was gone. I turned the house upside-down and told her to call 911.

GRACE: And we have heard your 911 call. My third question -- why -- has she explained it to you why she didn`t go to the restroom in the middle of night right there in the bedroom`s attached bathroom? It`s kind of all one big, huge master bedroom. Why would she choose to crosses kitchen and go to a different bathroom?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I don`t know, Ms. Nancy. I`ve never really heard that side of the story, to be honest with you.

GRACE: Now, you want to clear up -- a lot of people are attacking you for going to New York for a honeymoon. Please, here`s your chance.

RONALD CUMMINGS: Absolutely. I went there for an exclusive with the "Today" show. I did not go there on a honeymoon at all. It was not a honeymoon at all. I went there for an exclusive with the "Today" show.

GRACE: Ronald, I know that you have been under attack. Misty Croslin Cummings has been under attack. Tonight, we are taking the viewer`s calls, Mr. Cummings not afraid to answer questions in front of the camera. And we are live. We`ll all be back in 30 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Terry in Florida. Hi, Terry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Something has been bothering me. If the story`s true that Misty was out partying and left the kids home alone, it`s possible Misty put the cement block by the back door so she could slip quietly back inside the house and not wake up the kids, but someone else could have gotten inside the house and took Haleigh before Misty got home.

GRACE: To Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, who is with us tonight taking your calls live. Ronald, has the theory that Misty left the home some time during the night been disproved?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I`m not sure. I believe that it has, Nancy. I`m almost 100 percent sure, but I wouldn`t say that and lie to you. I`m pretty sure it has been disproved.

GRACE: Do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, Ronald?

RONALD CUMMINGS: Absolutely not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin said that she realized that Haleigh was missing in the middle of the night when she woke up to use the bathroom. Now, there`s two bathrooms in the mobile home, one that is directly in the master bedroom and another one that is all the way across the living room.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone! I need somebody to be here now!

911 OPERATOR: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CUMMINGS: I walked in the kitchen and the back door`s wide open. And (INAUDIBLE) and she`s gone. And that`s all I know!

RONALD CUMMINGS: Came home this morning to find out that I didn`t have a child! Somebody stole my child! It`s not like a bicycle or a car. Somebody stole my child from me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The back door has two locks on the door. The second lock, which you would have to turn, is a tight lock, so it wouldn`t be likely that little Haleigh would have been able to turn the lock and then let herself out the door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, as Ronald Cummings still tries to find his little girl, he is now facing the possibility that his 4-year-old little boy will be taken away from him. That`s right, the mother, the biological mother, who does not have physical custody of the children, is now considering a custody battle.

We are taking your calls live. Joining me in a primetime exclusive tonight, Haleigh`s father and her paternal grandmother. We are taking your calls live.

Ronald Cummings, what do you make of the potential custody battle that you`re facing on top of everything else?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I think that it`s absolutely and utterly ridiculous. All it does is take the focus off of my daughter being gone and put the focus on, Oh, let`s see who can get custody.

GRACE: Now, let me ask you, this Ronald. Your wife -- your former wife -- well, the mother of the children -- hasn`t had custody in how long?

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Nancy, can I say something?

GRACE: Sure. Go ahead, Ms. Neves.

RONALD CUMMINGS: She`s not my former wife, Ms. Nancy. She`s not my former wife.

GRACE: Right.

NEVES: They were never married, so...

GRACE: Right. It`s the children`s mother.

RONALD CUMMINGS: August the 17th, her 2nd birthday, is when I took physical custody of the children. And I was granted custody of the children in December of `05, and I do have the court paperwork to prove it.

GRACE: Now, Ronald, they seem to suggest that the only reason the mother lost custody was because she missed some court dates. Is that true?

RONALD CUMMINGS: Absolutely not. She missed her first court date. The judge gave her "wah wah" story another try. She showed up, lawyered up. And the truth is, I was a better parent, still am, better provider.

GRACE: Where is Junior tonight, your son?

RONALD CUMMINGS: Do I have to answer that question?

GRACE: I mean, who`s got him? Who`s taking care of him?

RONALD CUMMINGS: My grandmother.

GRACE: Ms. Neves, I understand you all have been living in tents outside or near the home. But you were forced to vacate the premises? Why?

NEVES: County ordinance is what -- the reason what they gave us. Every place we tried, there was an ordinance against where we wanted to go. So it`s just a county ordinance.

GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer there at crime scene, joining us live from Satsuma, Florida. All right, the man`s got his daughter gone. He was at work on the night shift, like a lot of America is every night. Comes home, the daughter`s gone. Now, because of a county ordinance, they`re kicked out of their tents where they were being forced to live. Why?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, you can`t -- you can`t camp on a parcel, Nancy. It has to be a designated campground. So they were given a timeline, and now they have to go.

GRACE: Well, excuse me, but Marlaina, were they bothering anybody? I mean, who cares?

SCHIAVO: Not at all. Not at all. It`s just a county ordinance. They wrote a letter to Ronald Cummings saying that they understand his circumstances, but by law, they have to vacate the premises. So they did, and now he`s staying with his grandmother and Teresa is staying in her home.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But first to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He is also a crime victim. His daughter, Polly, was taken out of her home. She ended up being murdered. And since that time, he has been a tireless victims` right advocate.

Marc, a lot of concerns. Weigh in.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, Ron, my heart goes out to you, buddy. I know where you`re coming from and I know how you`re feeling right now.

But there`s a reality here that has to be dealt with, Nancy. Law enforcement runs parallel investigations in these cases. They`re investigating the family. They`re investigating friends, acquaintances, registered sex offenders. And then finally, they`re investigating the stranger scenario. And until they can eliminate the various players in that -- in those scenarios, they`re unable to then put the full force of their investigation towards what actually happened.

So it`s incumbent upon Misty -- and I think Ron has to impress this upon her -- to do whatever is necessary to eliminate her from suspicion, so law enforcement then can move forward. Otherwise this thing may never be solved, and certainly, that is not -- that`s not an acceptable conclusion to this case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh, if you`re out there, Mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you and we`ll be right here for you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the back door area, you can see that you have to walk up a ramp in order to get into the house. Now, what we do know is that Haleigh was afraid of the dark. And on both sides of the house, there is densely wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She (INAUDIBLE) Daddy`s little girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining me tonight in a primetime exclusive, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, along with her grandmother, Teresa Neves, taking your calls live.

Ronald, one thing I want to clear up. I still don`t understand why she didn`t call 911 the minute she realized Haleigh was gone. Or was it a matter of timing?

RONALD CUMMINGS: I think she was still looking to make sure that Haleigh -- she wasn`t going to make a false 911 call. She was making sure that Haleigh was not, you know, up in the bathroom or in a...

GRACE: Got it.

RONALD CUMMINGS: ... got up and moved up to another room or whatever. You know, I think she was just being sure that...

GRACE: So when you pull up -- when you pull up, she`s still looking?

RONALD CUMMINGS: Absolutely.

GRACE: OK. All right. I get it.

RONALD CUMMINGS: I told her to call 911 while I turned the house upside-down.

GRACE: I get.

RONALD CUMMINGS: You call 911, I`ll turn the house upside-down.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Carmen St. George out of New York and returning tonight, triumphantly, from his battle against leukemia, attorney Richard Herman. Not going easy on you, Richard. Richard, welcome back.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Wouldn`t expect it.

GRACE: What about Misty Croslin, Herman?

HERMAN: Misty Croslin -- these are not inconsistencies, and if as Marc Klaas suggests, law enforcement are holding up their investigation because of what bathroom she went in or what bed she slept in, that is ridiculous! These are not inconsistencies. Law enforcement has to find this poor child.

GRACE: Carmen St. George, agree or disagree?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree, Nancy. At the age of 17, some of us might be more advanced or have different experiences. At this point, I think that her story is really just that she did not know at that time...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA NEVES, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD, HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Haleigh`s one of them children who fills up a home with smiles and laughter. And you just couldn`t be without her. I know somebody took that little girl.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Somebody stole my child out of my bed. This is my heart and somebody stole my heart from me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is just, basically, getting to be more than he can bear. I mean he -- he stood up to all the scaredness and, you know, being afraid and tired and not eating right and everything. It`s wearing him down.

CUMMINGS: Somebody, please, who last seen my daughter, I want her to come home. Please bring my daughter home and if you`re watching, I love you.

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: Well, we`re standing right here, right beside me on -- on my left is the bedroom where Misty Croslin was sleeping. And here on the right, we have the bed where little Haleigh was sleeping.

And you can see it is all but about 3 1/2 feet from each other. And this is right where Misty said she got up and she had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Now where I`m facing right now, Nancy, is a bathroom. It`s the master bathroom. Through the living room behind me is the other bathroom in the house.

And you have to remember, that she -- when she got up to go to the bathroom, she saw that the kitchen light was on. The kitchen is over this way. So that means she would have had to have gotten up and gone out this door and then have noticed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: With us tonight in a primetime exclusive, Ronald Cummings, the father of little Haleigh, and her grandmother, Teresa Neves.

Ronald, I see you shaking your head, no, no, no. Why? Do you disagree?

CUMMINGS: Because we can go in that house right now where they -- we can go in -- yes, absolutely. I disagree. We can go in that house right now with a camera and turn that kitchen that light on. And from the bedroom you can see it. It don`t matter if you go to the bathroom that`s across the house or the one that`s in that bedroom. You can see that the kitchen light is on. It shines. It`s black in the house.

GRACE: You know I`m interested to hear that because when Marlaina was -- and Teresa Neves was giving us access to the home, I asked specifically was the bedroom door open. Do you sleep with the bedroom door open and they responded yes.

CUMMINGS: Always.

GRACE: So I assume.

CUMMINGS: Always.

GRACE: I assume that the kitchen light would come through the bedroom. I understand what you`re saying.

Everyone, Ronald Cummings, Teresa Neves taking your calls live.

Out to Michelle in Michigan, hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

MICHELLE: I was wondering now that Ron and Misty are married, can they be forced to testify against each other if there was foul play involved.

GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer there at the crime scene, Satsuma, Florida. You know I heard it misstated, I believe, if I`m correct on the law, on the networks over the weekend. Isn`t there a caveat in Florida law? Typically husband/wife privilege. You can`t testify against each other.

But when it comes to the injury or the abuse of a child, I don`t believe the husband/wife privilege applies in Florida. Yes? No?

SCHIAVO: Yes, Nancy, you`re correct.

GRACE: OK.

SCHIAVO: And anything said before the marriage is admissible.

GRACE: Thank you. That was my next question, Marlaina.

So Michelle in Michigan, contrary to a lot of haters that are claiming the two got married to avoid testifying at trial, incorrect. In Florida, when it comes to the welfare of a child, you can`t claim marital privilege.

Now the whole thing about marrying a 17-year-old has come up repeatedly. You know what? That`s a whole another kettle of fish to fry, all right? Let`s worry about bringing Haleigh home first. Then we can address the teen marriage.

Back to the lines. Lili in Louisiana, hi, Lilly.

LILI, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hi, Nancy, how you doing?

GRACE: I`m very disturbed about this case because a month has passed and still no leads in the search for Haleigh. What is your question, dear? And hello to all of our Cajun friends.

LILI: I agree with you. And mine is more of a statement. Have they checked out the person that rented the trailer before? Because they would know where the cinder block is. They might even have a key to the deadbolt. They know where the light is and the switch to the light of the kitchen.

GRACE: OK. Lili, you might need a second job as a private I.

To Ronald Cummings. Ronald, isn`t the previous owner the reverend?

CUMMINGS: As I believe it is the reverend`s mother and father. And I think they deceased here in the home. I`m not sure. You would have to ask them. But I do know that I personally went to Wal-Mart and bought the deadbolts and the locks that were on there so nobody else had a key to this house.

GRACE: OK, because I believe that he told me, the former owner, the reverend, that he had placed a lock on that back door but you also placed locks as well, correct? Got it.

CUMMINGS: Yes, ma`am, they were there. I took them off and put my own on.

GRACE: To Barbara.

CUMMINGS: I don`t want nobody to have keys in my house because I didn`t want this to happen.

GRACE: To Barbara in Massachusetts, hi, Barbara.

BARBARA, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. This is an answer to prayer. I`ve been trying to get you for a month.

GRACE: Thank you.

BARBARA: I just have -- oh, I love you. I just have a quick comment and then a question. I just want to say that the answer to this mystery is the deadbolt and access to it. And I want to say that Misty said there were three men there that night. I think it was a nephew, cousin, a -- an air-conditioning repairman.

But anyway, any one of them could have unlocked that deadbolt, slipped her a sedative and left the house and come back later and gone in and gotten the child. I think it`s someone that knew them. I think it had to be someone who was there in the house that night.

And I`ve called the tip line and I`ve talked to detectives. This is how disturbed I am for this little girl.

GRACE: Let`s go to the source and find out. To Marlaina Schiavo, joining us from Satsuma.

Marlaina, who was in the home that evening?

SCHIAVO: Misty was in the home with the two children that evening, Nancy.

GRACE: Had there been visitors prior to that?

SCHIAVO: She had a cousin visiting from out of town earlier. And so he was in the home at some point, but we`re still trying to figure out exactly how that`s all pieced together, Nancy.

GRACE: To Teresa Neves, Haleigh`s grandmother. Miss Neves, are you aware of anyone else in the home that evening? I don`t mean when they all go to bed, I mean earlier that evening.

NEVES: I heard there was a repairman there. My mother was actually over.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. There was a repairman there. The cousin was there who police have investigated.

NEVES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Who else?

NEVES: My mother came by that night.

GRACE: For what reason?

CUMMINGS: My cousin went in there.

NEVES: She brought some clean clothes over.

GRACE: OK.

NEVES: She had some of the kid`s clothes at her house and she had washed them and brought them over. That was sometime between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m. that night.

GRACE: Miss Neves, what do you say to those viewers that are disturbed about your son marrying a 17-year-old girl? Did her parents consent to the marriage?

NEVES: Yes, ma`am, they did.

GRACE: And to Brian Russell. Dr. Brian Russell, psychologist joining us out of Atlanta. Dr. Russell, look, nobody is -- to my knowledge -- not many people, are for teen marriage. All right? But are we getting sidetracked? Isn`t that a collateral issue?

They can`t claim husband privilege -- husband/wife privilege against each other in court. So can we -- can we just burn that bridge when we get there?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you`re absolutely right, Nancy. All the research indicates it`s not best for the longevity and the stability of the marriage but you`re right, it is a sideshow to the main event which is trying to find this missing little girl.

I would be interested to know from Ron, though, whether he thought maybe -- whether the two of them might have thought there was any legal advantage to being married. Even though we know you and I know there was not.

GRACE: OK. Ronald Cummings, has anyone suggested to you that you married Misty so you two would not have to testify against each other if there`s ever a trial?

CUMMINGS: Absolutely not, Nancy.

GRACE: You know, the other night I had your -- the children`s biological mother on. And excuse me, I had her lawyer on. And she suggested that you had a history of dating teenagers. True/false?

CUMMINGS: I have dated teenagers in my time, yes, true.

GRACE: And your age is 25?

CUMMINGS: True.

GRACE: How long have you two known each other before you married?

CUMMINGS: Seven, eight months.

GRACE: Why did police take your back door off the hinges and take it away, Ronald?

CUMMINGS: I`m not sure. They took it for some further investigation. I think the locks and everything. They want to check some things that those -- you would have to ask them, the investigators on that one, Miss Nancy.

GRACE: Is -- and Ronald, is your new wife, Misty Croslin-Cummings, willing to speak to police again?

CUMMINGS: Yes, anytime. We`re all willing to speak to police. All we want is Haleigh back.

GRACE: Everybody, taking your calls live tonight. Haleigh`s father and grandmother. As we go to break, we ask for your thoughts and prayers for a Florida friend of the show, Robbie Lewis.

Robbie, you are beautiful. Stay strong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIAVO: Let me show you the back door and show you how both doors close automatically. So -- and I`m also going to show you the lock because the lock is about three feet from the floor. And we know that that`s about as tall as Haleigh stands. So here`s the back door and here`s the lock.

It sticks. So -- there you go. Now we open up the back door and here`s the back screen door. The one that was propped open with the cinder block, OK? Now if you see, when it closed, it slams. It makes a loud noise. But if you leave this door, this slowly closes as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining me tonight in a primetime exclusive, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, and her grandmother, Teresa Neves.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Mary in Kentucky. Hi, dear.

MARY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi, Nancy. My.

GRACE: I`m sorry, repeat.

MARY: My question to you is at 15, 16 years old I baby-sat, I`m a mother of five, grandmother of 11. And whenever I have children around and they sleep in my bed, or I`m sleeping with them, I will go -- I don`t go to the bathroom in my bedroom. I always go out into the hallway because I don`t want to wake them flushing the toilets.

GRACE: And what`s your question?

MARY: Well, I`m -- yes, I just don`t understand why they`re making such a big deal about that because that just seems like a common courtesy.

GRACE: OK. Why are they making a big deal about it? I don`t know. I think that it was construed as an inconsistency at some point. People thought it may not make any sense. Maybe they`re not the grandmother of 11 like yourself. So maybe the cops were suspicion.

Next question. Sheeba, Illinois, hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. We just love you. God bless for everything you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

SHEEBA: My question is, if the kitchen light were on, would Haleigh have walked out with like a stranger, or would it be more probable that the little thing would have walked out with someone she knew?

GRACE: What about it, Ronald Cummings? How was she with strangers? With my twins, John David will go to anybody. Lucy will hardly go to anybody. How was Haleigh?

CUMMINGS: Haleigh would not just go to anybody. She will only go to the people who she knows.

GRACE: I find it hard to believe she wouldn`t have cried out, if it had not been somebody she knew. Ron?

CUMMINGS: It could have, Nancy. It could have, Nancy. There`s a -- I don`t know. I can`t -- I have no answers. I wish I did. If I had answers, I obviously wouldn`t be sitting here.

GRACE: But you know what, on the other hand, you know when I get home from work every night I pick each one of the twins up where from where they`re sleeping and I carry them over and put them in their cribs. They never wake up. They never wake up. So that`s a whole another aspect.

What about it, Marc Klaas?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I think that`s absolutely correct. If she was a very sound sleeper, she could have been anywhere before she woke up. Or whoever took her, could have placed their hand over her mouth. Could have placed an object. Could have placed chloroform over her mouth as we know has happened in other cases.

I think that this is just a big open question until this case is resolved.

GRACE: You know, Marc, Marc, I`ve got so many issues. If there are inconsistencies with Misty Croslin-Cummings` statement, that`s a problem. On the other hand, she is young. She is unsophisticated. And those inconsistencies may be due to semantics. Just wording. So I hate to jump on the bandwagon, you know, when they`re suffering and attack the family, that`s so easy to attack them.

KLAAS: Well, I don`t think that I was just attacking the family. I think I was trying to play out a couple of scenarios.

GRACE: Not you.

KLAAS: But, but.

GRACE: Not you. I`m asking you your thoughts on whether it`s conceivable that her inconsistencies were actually innocent.

KLAAS: Anything is possible. But I would -- I would caution everybody to understand that law enforcement has a massive task force working this case. And probably some of the best minds in the country on child abduction are involved and I don`t think that there -- it is anything eye -- I don`t think that it`s any mistake that after Misty.

GRACE: Yes.

KLAAS: . for the last four, five weeks have said that she`s passed her test and she`s not under suspicion that she all of a sudden admits that there are inconsistencies and that law enforcement confirms that. I think that there are real reasons for having done that.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, I agree. John Lucich, weigh in.

JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Look, I think a big part of why they took that door was to start looking at the inconsistencies in the statement. Was that door locked? Was there marks from the outside?

I think what they`re trying to do now, instead of like, Marc said before, when we have to -- when they cannot remove people from the investigation, that just takes too much time going in all of these different directions.

I think what they`re trying do is remove the world now and saying, let`s look inside of this trailer and see what happened. And I think that has a lot to do why -- because they`re going to be able to show that this place was not broken into, it was locked. Then it had to be somebody in the inside.

GRACE: And you know, Lucich, when you can`t clear somebody, you have to keep going back and back and back to them. Going over and over and over the statement.

Tonight Ronald Cummings stating his wife is willing to go back to police and answer questions again.

To Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County, New Jersey medical examiner. Dr. Hua, thank you for being with us. What is the very best forensic evidence investigators could hope to get right now?

DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CO., N.J. MEDICAL EXAMINER: Probably not as this. I mean all of the important forensic evidence should be collected early on, early stage of this investigation. I mean you`re looking for any fiber, any hair follicles, any DNA evidence, (INAUDIBLE) and also -- obviously you`re looking for any prints, fingerprints inside the door also inside the apartment.

GRACE: To Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father. Ronald, if you can make a plea now, what would it be? What would you say? Would you say?

CUMMINGS: Bring my little girl home, please, whoever`s got her, bring her home. I`ll give you everything I`ve got to bring my daughter home.

GRACE: What is your day like now, Ronald? How do you start it? How do you end it?

CUMMINGS: Kissing my son good night in the bed with me.

GRACE: Miss Neves, how do you start your day? How do you end it?

NEVES: Praying for Haleigh, pray that she`s returned alive. Pray that God will just show somebody somewhere something that brings her home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: She could have told me that she was with anybody, you know, at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your impression that night that she was making it up, or did you believe that to be true?

ANTHONY: To this day, I believe everything that my sister tells me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV, what`s the latest in the tot mom case?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, Lee Anthony`s attorney filed some paperwork today in court and basically he said that he doesn`t want Lee Anthony to have to answer the two questions about who Caylee`s father is, as well as whether he believes that Casey could have been involved in her death.

He doesn`t think one of those questions is relevant, and he believes that -- his opinion about his -- about his sister`s guilt is not relevant and says that whoever Caylee`s father is, it really has nothing to do with the case. There`s going to be a hearing in May.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, if he knows who the father is, why not avoid all the attorney bills? If the father really died in a car crash, why can`t he just say so? What`s the problem, Drew?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO, COVERING STORY: Well, what`s interesting right before his lawyer cut him off and did not let him answer that question, he said I do not know for 100 percent. So if you believe what he said before his lawyer cut him off, he doesn`t exactly know who the father of Caylee is.

GRACE: And quickly, Drew Petrimoulx, a lady sheriff was with tot mom when she found out Caylee had been found. Did she give sworn deposition testimony?

PETRIMOULX: Apparently did. Her name is Lt. Tammy Unser and apparently she did speak with prosecutors in this case and it`s just for us to find out what is actually she said. That hasn`t come out yet.

GRACE: Of course the defense is trying to stop that video deposition from being released as well.

Kathi Belich, Drew Petrimoulx, thank you.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Colonel Michael Stahlman, 45, Chevy Chase, Maryland, killed Iraq. One of the highest ranking officers to die in Iraq. Awarded the Navy Marine Corps commendation medal, Army Achievement Medal and Navy Marine Corps achievement medal.

A U.S. Naval Academy grad, also earned a law degree. He`s leaving behind grieving widow Kim, two daughters.

Michael Stahlman, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And a special good night tonight from Georgia friends of the show, Chris, Bobby, a film student, and Rod, a cancer survivor who owns Bloom`s Floral Designs right here in Atlanta.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Mother Opens Up about Missing Girl; Do Inconsistency Stories Hide Truth about Haleigh?; Rapist Who Imprisoned Daughter on Trial

Aired March 17, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a hair-raising twist in the frantic search for Haleigh Cummings. Crystal Sheffield, Haleigh`s mother, joins us tonight to talk about her new foundation and a possible custody battle over Haleigh`s little brother, all this as police say Ron`s new wife Misty has changed her story several times. Why all the inconsistencies? Could Misty hold the secret to finding this precious missing child?

Plus outrage in Austria. Day two in the horrifying incest trial leaves jurors traumatized. More harrowing testimony about the man who now tries to hide his face as he`s led into court. He kept his daughter locked in a basement bunker for decades while repeatedly raping her, farthing seven children with her and then allegedly letting one die.

Then the ugly rumor about whether Lee Anthony is, in fact, the father of little Caylee is finally put to rest. You will not believe the stunning court documents examined just hours ago involving DNA tests for Lee, Casey and little Caylee.

And shocking new details emerge in the deadly case of football stars lost at sea. A Coast Guard report says the lone survivor talked of one man getting unruly, fighting with the others and throwing punches. We`ll look at the psychological and physical torment of their ordeal.

Plus, outrageous new octo-drama. Frantic preparations made to make Nadya Suleman`s new home safe for her babies` arrival. We`ll bring you the very latest on the octo-saga.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The shocking answer to the paternity question that has long surrounded the Caylee Anthony murder case. Who is the little girl`s father? Newly-released documents reveal stunning DNA information. I will have the very latest details on that breaking story.

But we begin tonight with Haleigh Cummings` distraught mother, Crystal Sheffield. She is speaking out right here on ISSUES.

Her ex, Haleigh`s father, Ron Cummings, appeared on "NANCY GRACE" last night where Nancy asked the very tough questions, as she should. He didn`t throw any punches. In fact, he threw a few jabs at Crystal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": They seem to suggest that the only reason the mother lost custody was because she missed some court dates. Is that true?

RON CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Absolutely not. She missed her first court date. The judge gave her wah-wah story another try. She showed up, lawyered up. And the truth is I was a better parent. Still am. Better provider.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Last week, Cummings also accused Crystal of making up a false lead in the case, namely that their 4-year-old, Ronald Jr., saw a black man in black take little Haleigh. What on earth would a distraught mother have to gain by leading the investigation astray?

Crystal`s response to all of this is moments away. She`s going to set the record straight for us tonight.

Meantime, Misty Croslin Cummings, Ron`s new bride and the last person to see Haleigh before she went missing, has spent more than 30 hours talking to investigators, but cops still have no clear timeline. How is that possible? Why is Misty hiding key information? We will examine the very day little Haleigh went missing.

Joining me now, my expert panel: Rebecca Rose Woodland, criminal defense attorney; Brian Russell, forensic psychologist and attorney; and Don Clark, former FBI special agent charge.

But first my very special guest, Haleigh`s mom, Crystal Sheffield, joins us by phone, as does her attorney, Kim McCazio (ph).

Crystal, I would like to start with Haleigh Bug, the foundation you just started to find your precious child. You have set up headquarters in town and painted it purple which was Haleigh`s favorite color. I understand you`ve also hired a private investigator.

Crystal, tell us all about this new strategy you have for finding your daughter.

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: It`s just something where everybody can come. I mean, anybody that wants to do any donations, I mean, call. I mean, it`s just a place for me to be where I don`t have to be out in a tent or, you know, because I`ve got my 11-month-old baby. I mean, it`s just a safer place, and it`s just something I wanted to do for Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And why did you hire a private eye?

SHEFFIELD: I didn`t. I didn`t hire him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. I -- that was a report and we want to set the record straight.

Crystal, I also want to give you an opportunity to set the record straight about something else. On "The Today Show," Ron claims you made up the story that you made Ron Jr. saw Haleigh`s abductor. Let`s listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEREDITH VIEIRA, CO-HOST, NBC`S "THE TODAY SHOW": Your 4-year-old son, and the fact that he said that somebody, a man dressed in black, had taken Haleigh out of the trailer that night she disappeared. Did she tell that to either one of you? Misty, you were there at the time. Did he say anything to you at the time?

MISTY CROSLIN, WIFE OF RON CUMMINGS: No.

VIEIRA: Nothing?

CUMMINGS: Me either. I think this is some of the garbage that Geraldo and Crystal, the mother, has made up. But I`m just going to leave that at that.

VIEIRA: So you don`t even believe that Ronald Jr. said this at all?

CUMMINGS: I don`t know. I wasn`t at home; I was at work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crystal, that`s kind of harsh on Ron`s part. What is your response to this claim that you made this up?

SHEFFIELD: Well, I know for a fact my son told me that. I`m not lying. I did not ask him no questions.

The following weekend after Haleigh went missing I asked him no questions. As soon as I picked him up he said, "Mommy, I want to find my sissy. A man in black took her," and that is what he told me.

I swear I`m not lying. You can say I`m making it up if you want to. That`s fine. I -- I have no reason to lie. I want my daughter back, and that`s what my son told me. If it`s true or not, so be it. I mean, he told me that, and that`s my baby, so...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Crystal, just to understand, first we heard that he said a man in black took little Haleigh. Then apparently, we heard a couple of days later that he said a black man in black. Did his story change or did -- was it just an error in reporting?

SHEFFIELD: Well, at first he did say it was a man dressed in black. And then I asked him the following -- the two weeks later when I got him again I asked him about it. But I didn`t want to question him about it, because I know it`s hard on him enough. And I asked him about it and I was, like, "What about the black -- the person dressed in black." And he said it was a black man dressed in black, and he had squeaky shoes. And the I`m not lying. I have no reason to lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why we have you on tonight, first of all because we want to do everything we can to find your precious child and put her face out there so that somebody, anyone out there who has anyone any kind of clue, please, we`re begging you, come forward.

Now let`s talk about Misty Croslin, Ron`s new wife. Was the last person, of course, to see little Haleigh the night she went missing, but her story has been full of holes. She was asked on "The Today Show" Friday about all the inconsistencies. Let`s listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIEIRA: Why were there -- help me out, Misty, where were there inconsistencies? Why did you say one thing one time and one time the other? One thing the other?

CROSLIN: Um -- I don`t know.

VIEIRA: But you know you did do that?

CROSLIN: Yes.

VIEIRA: And you`re not sure why.

CROSLIN: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s pretty amazing -- Kim McCazio (ph), you`re Crystal Sheffield`s attorney -- that she doesn`t know why she`s telling inconsistent stories, for example, when did she first call 911? We initially heard something about, hey, Ron was at work and she called 911 and he rushed in at the tail end of the conversation, because we hear him on that call. But now Ron is saying he got home, saw Misty standing there. The child was missing, and he told her to call 911. What do you make of it?

KIM MCCAZIO (PH), ATTORNEY FOR CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD: Well, I think that all of the inconsistent statements are making it very difficult for the police investigation to go forward, and I wish we could clear up these statements. I don`t know why they are being made.

I don`t know if Misty is just a naive child who`s trying to make up stories that may make her look better or her husband, or if she has something to hide. And I guess the investigation will -- will figure that out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Quick question, Crystal. What about this potential custody battle between you and Ron over your little boy, Ronald Jr.?

SHEFFIELD: I -- I don`t feel safe with him. I mean, my daughter is missing. He has a 17-year-old that he is married to now. She`s a child. Obviously, she`s -- I mean, she`s been out doing drugs. He`s caught her with drug dealers, and I don`t feel safe with him there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to say, first of all, that I have no independent confirmation of that, and we don`t have any information or confirmation of that at all. A lot of stories circulating. A lot of point, counterpoint, charge, countercharge.

But one thing I know for sure is that Crystal Sheffield is suffering tonight.

And Crystal, I want to thank you so much for being on. And I wish you the very best of luck with your new foundation and the Haleigh Bug house. And, of course, that`s little Haleigh`s nickname. And we just pray that she`s brought home alive and safe. Thank you, Crystal.

All right. As always, our thoughts are with that little child. And we`re going move now onto my expert panel, fantastic group here.

You`ve been listening in. Don Clark, what do you make of it? The fact that there are all these inconsistencies that this Misty doesn`t have any explanation for, and she just blankly says, "Yes, I`ve told different stories and I have no explanation"?

DON CLARK, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Yes. In one way, Jane, it`s a -- it`s a bad thing that these inconsistencies are going on. But from a police investigation, they ought to be really cataloging these things, really working at them and really trying to find out why one counters the other, other than the fact that she said that.

They`ve got to keep in mind here that everybody is a suspect in this case, Jane. Everybody is a suspect. And clearly, the people close to the environment and the situation, particularly those in the house, they have to be suspects in this case. I don`t understand how anybody could be released from this, and particularly when you have all of these inconsistencies, just flowing back and forth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rebecca Rose Woodland, if everyone is a suspect, and she`s the one who`s telling the inconsistent stories, is there any way that they can bring her in and arrest her on some kind of very lesser charge just to put pressure her to try to get the story straight?

REBECCA ROSE WOODLAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not yet. I don`t think so. As far as what we know so far, Jane, there`s not enough here. I think what the authorities are doing is trying to question her, interrogate her. I`m sure there`s certain pressure they`re putting on her while they`re interrogating her.

If you remember last week she refused to speak to one of the detectives and said, "I won`t speak to him. He made me nervous." Probably because he was putting pressure on her to explain the story. What`s the actual story here, Jane? That`s what we want to know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, we`ve got to find out. Everybody, stick around. Lots more to cover in the desperate search for this precious 5- year-old girl.

And I want to hear from you. Do you think the inconsistent stories Ron`s new wife has given police require further scrutiny? Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

Then just miles away, explosive new developments in the Casey Anthony case. New discovery documents just released answer the question of whether Lee Anthony is, in fact, the father of little Caylee, an ugly rumor that`s been out there. We will have the answer in a moment.

But first, as we enter the fifth week in the search for Haleigh Cummings, a reminder of what Misty Croslin had to say just days after her disappearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: At 3 a.m. in the morning I got up and -- I got up because I had to use the bathroom, but I didn`t make it to the bathroom. I seen the kitchen light on. And I walked in the kitchen, and the back door was wide open. And I didn`t notice about Haleigh until I seen the back door open. And then I go in the room and she`s gone. And that`s all I know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of -- of Caylee...

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I do not know 100 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have to answer that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lee Anthony dodged the question, but will he have to answer it now? Breaking news on that story coming right up.

But first Ron Cummings` new wife, Misty Croslin, has a big problem keeping her story straight. Is that hampering the search for little Haleigh?

Back with my expert panel, and the phone lines are lighting up. Charles in Missouri, your question or thought, sir.

CALLER: Yes, Jane. I want to thank you for taking my call. I watch your show. I watch it every night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks.

CALLER: What I`m -- I`ve been watching the interviews with Misty and I can`t help but go back to the time of the Susan Smith case. You`ve got two women fighting over the affections of a man. It was earlier reported that Haleigh was daddy`s little girl, and I just wondered if there`s anything to that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don Clark, you were familiar with that case. What do you make of it?

CLARK: I`ll tell you what. He makes a good point there. I mean, in particular, you saw the same thing with Susan Smith back in those days and the same type of activities there. So it is something to think about.

But, you know, Jane, I really do think that at some point that the police may -- might have to look at some obstruction of justice charges here, because she is telling stories that leads one direction, telling stories that leads another direction, and they`re all inconsistent with each other. And I really do think that that can be listed as obstruction, and maybe they`ll move forward after that charge.

CLARK: Jane, can I jump in?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Sure.

CLARK: I agree with Don and I disagree. On the one hand, I think he`s right. I think that she may be obstructing.

On the other hand I`m not seeing Susan Smith-like behavior. What I`m seeing is some possible confabulation, and that`s where people try to fill in details that they really don`t remember. And I think that she may not be 100 percent sure what exactly did happen that night. I don`t know this, obviously. I haven`t tested her blood, but imagine if she were under the influence of some substance that night. And she didn`t...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wouldn`t they have tested her?

CLARK: They may not have. They may not have taken toxicology on her, because it really might not be 100 percent relevant yet. But if she were under the influence of something, she may not want to admit that. Just think about, for example, if she were underage drinking or using some illegal drug. She might not want to admit, but that would explain some of the inconsistencies.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, as you said, Misty Croslin has spent more than 30 hours being interrogated by cops. They don`t have a clear idea of what happened that day.

Here`s what we do know. At about 5 p.m. an air-conditioning repair man visited the home. At 7 p.m., Haleigh`s great-Grandma, Inez Sykes, came by with clean clothes. And she says she saw Haleigh with Misty.

And last night on "NANCY GRACE," Ron and his mom Teresa Neves gave differing opinions of whether or not a cousin stopped by. Listen closely.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": There was a repairman there. The cousin was there who police have investigated. Who else?

TERESA NEVES, MOTHER OF RON CUMMINGS: My mother came by that night.

GRACE: For what reason?

CUMMINGS: My cousin wasn`t there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you hear, very, very softly Ron says, "My cousin wasn`t there"?

So they can`t agree over even whether a cousin was there. And now investigative journalist Art Harris is saying Misty put the kids to bed at 8 p.m., washed their blankets and then went to sleep herself.

How come -- and I`ll put this to Rebecca Rose Woodland. Investigators can`t get a clear handle on a timeline, given that it looks like she`s claiming she was at the trailer home all night long. I mean, it`s not a mansion. It`s a trailer home. How can you not get a timeline on what somebody was doing inside a trailer home?

WOODLAND: I`m very -- that`s what`s disturbing about this case, is that how big can a trailer home be? She can probably put her both arms out and feel both sides. The baby went to sleep without blankets. She was washing the blankets, came back. She claims she put the blanket on the baby, then went to sleep herself, but she doesn`t even remember when that was.

Well, you know how long wash takes. You wash, you dry and put it in the washing machine and the dryer. You know, this isn`t that difficult to figure out. So there must be issues and so many inconsistencies that we don`t have a timeline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sharon in Virginia, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes, I just want to tell you that it`s not coincidental, that the person who took Haleigh, you know, had to have known that that screen door had to be propped open.

And Ron said that there were no cinder blocks in his backyard. So they would have had to brought a cinder block with them, prop that door open and get in and out.

And also, where would these kids sleep when Ronald and Misty are, like, making love. I mean, surely they`re not sleeping in the bed with mom and now their new stepmom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m going to throw that one to the psychologist, Brian Russell. I don`t want to touch that one.

BRIAN RUSSELL, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, look, I`ve said many times that these things very, very, very rarely happen randomly. Polly Klaas is an example of an exception. But I think that somebody knew that that little girl was in there, poorly supervised, in a place that was likely to be unlocked, with no father there to defend the home, and it`s probably somebody who knew him or her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to thank my fantastic panel for their wonderful insights. Please come back.<end of Haleigh coverage>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/17/ijvm.01.html

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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/18/ijvm.01.html

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Rift Between Haleigh Cummings Family Grows Worse; Natasha Richardson Reportedly Near Death; Casey Anthony Case Witness List; Incest Trial Shocker; Octo Madness

Aired March 18, 2009 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, tensions boiling over in the search for 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings. Shocking new details point to a fierce custody battle for Haleigh`s little brother, Junior.

Haleigh`s mom has now hired an attorney who has gone to Florida`s child services with shocking claims of a child beaten in the home until bloody. Others are saying Ron`s marriage to Misty could be a move to keep custody of Junior. I`ll have both sides of the story in this intense battle.

Then, outrageous details flood in about Casey Anthony`s murder trial and provide a stunning look inside the prosecution`s case. I`ll analyze the witness list from key family members to an ex-boyfriend to a childhood pal. Will they paint a picture of a pathological liar capable of murder?

And I`ll have a sneak peek at the defense strategy. Casey`s attorneys already grilling a cop who may have ignored tips on the location of Caylee`s remains way back in August. An interrogation not slated to end for another two weeks.

Plus, it`s a wild out-of-control mob scene as Octomom Nadya Suleman brings two of her babies home from the hospital. It was so out of hand that cops showed up. So when are the other six coming home, and how will this paparazzi circus impact all of them? I`ll have the bizarre details.

And the absolutely heart-breaking story of actress Natasha Richardson. After a minor skiing accident, the star reportedly near death. Her famous family, including husband Liam Neeson and mom Vanessa Redgrave, by her side for what could be her last moments. I`ll have the latest details in this tragic story.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, dramatic twists in the disappearance of little Haleigh Cummings. A custody battle over Haleigh`s brother, Ron Jr., set to explode at any moment. The gloves are coming off as police enter the sixth week of desperately searching for Haleigh. Her parents have started attacking each other with new claims of child abuse and drug use.

Here on ISSUES, last night, Haleigh`s mom, Crystal Sheffield, made a stunning claim about Misty Croslin, who is the new wife of her ex, Ron Cummings, and the last person to see little Haleigh the night she went missing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: She`s been out doing drugs. He`s caught her with drug dealers. And I don`t feel safe with him there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No comment from Misty. Cops reportedly say there is no available criminal history on Misty.

We have also learned that just yesterday, Crystal Sheffield`s new attorney met with Florida`s Department of Children and Families, begging them to investigate claims -- and I repeat claims -- of abuse that allegedly left a child bloodied at the Cummings home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM PICAZIO, CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD`S ATTORNEY: When a parent beats a child until the child is bloodied, that is a crime. It`s legally and morally wrong. And he needs to be brought to justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone has told you that?

PICAZIO: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ron`s grandmother, Annette Sykes, says she is enraged by these charges and responded to these horrifying allegations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNETTE SYKES, RON CUMMING`S GRANDMOTHER: This is ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ronald spanks his children just like -- like he said, just like children services say you can spank them. On the rear end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will this rift between Haleigh`s parents take the focus off finding their precious daughter? And could Misty and Ron`s wedding be a strategy to boost their chances of retaining custody of Ron Jr.?

Meantime, the new Haleigh Bug Foundation, created to coordinate tips, had an unwelcome guest. Get this. An accused child molester showed up, hoping to donate office supplies? Unbelievable.

We will have all the details, and I will be taking your calls. Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

But first, my fabulous expert panel: Belisa Vranich, clinical psychologist; Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; Paul Callan, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Mickey Ziegler, divorce attorney; plus Rick Robinson, former West Virginia state trooper and professor at Dexville (ph) College in Ohio.

All right. Let`s jump right in. Jayne, do you think all these allegations are going to lead us to little Haleigh, who`s missing, or are they more about the brewing custody battle for little Junior?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s just jockeying positions for the custody. And unfortunately, it`s distracting from looking or talking about finding Haleigh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Rick Robinson, I mean, you`re a former state trooper. If this mom feels her son is in danger -- and let`s face it, she does have a couple of points. There was another child of hers that went missing under the same watch of these two people. Shouldn`t she do everything to get that child?

RICK ROBINSON, FORMER STATE TROOPER: I`m wondering about a couple of things. One, I`m wondering why Crystal didn`t have custody to begin with. What was going on with that? You`ve got a guy who`s 25 years old and a young lady who`s 17. And I`m wondering how did that guy -- you and I both know men rarely get custody. So I`m wondering about that.

And then, looking at these allegations of abuse, it`s very common anytime there`s any type of investigation, whether it be a murder investigation or a missing person or whatever, where someone along the way will start saying the other person was spanking their kid and so on.

But Ron, in the very first interview about did he abuse his child, he rolls off the words about Department of Children and Family Services. Like Department of Health and Human Services. Those words don`t just typically roll off of people`s tongues. So I`m thinking this is the guy...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, unless they`ve been visited by the...

ROBINSON: There`s been something going on for some time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And in fact, we had gotten a report through a reporter -- we can`t confirm this ourselves -- that police had been called to the home but that it was because neighbors complained of loud arguments. So that`s not the same thing as -- as a beating, which this family, Ron Cummings, completely denies.

Let`s listen to what Crystal said last night on this very show here, ISSUES, about Ron Jr. living with his father and step-mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEFFIELD: My daughter is missing. He has a 17-year-old that he is married to now. She`s a child. Obviously, she`s been out doing drugs. She`s caught her with drug dealers. And I don`t feel safe with him there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, these are very serious accusations. We have to say, we tried to reach Misty for her reaction to these charges. Got no response. She has an open invitation to appear on this show and tell her side of the story. We want to be fair. We want to tell all sides.

Meantime, law enforcement says Misty has no available criminal history.

ROBINSON: That`s because she`s a juvenile.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes, it is a cryptic comment, but that`s the only comment we got. And that`s why we`re sticking with it.

ROBINSON: But Ron, on the other hand, has a rather lengthy criminal history.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to get to that in a second. Misty spoke to investigative journalist Art Harris just a couple of days ago, claiming the kids love her more than their biological mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CROSLIN, WIFE OF RON CUMMINGS: Love Haleigh more than anything in this world. That was like my baby. They used to call me step-mom. You know, they`d rather be with me than their own mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We need a shrink on this one. Belisa Vranich, it`s getting nastier and nastier. I think it`s because there`s a vacuum of information about where little Haleigh is. People are getting agitated and tense, and they`re taking it out on each other.

BELISA VRANICH, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. We are missing information here, and I think people sense that, that there are distracters. There are things that have to do with the complicated family, but what about Haleigh? So we are missing information. You`re right on target. Your gut on that is correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, we made some calls, and as we said, no criminal history available for Misty, who`s only 17 years old. However, as Rick Robinson mentioned seconds ago, Ron Cummings has numerous drug charges in his history, including possession of cocaine, cannabis, use of drug paraphernalia, maintaining a drug vehicle.

WEINTRAUB: And image, he was awarded custody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- OK, it goes on and on and on. But what I can say is that Ron Cummings, and it`s important to point this out, has never been convicted of any drug charges, OK?

He and Misty have known each other for years. They might run in the same circles.

Rick Robinson, would cops be wise to test Misty for drugs as part of their investigation? Should they have done that the very first night? Do you think they`ve done it?

ROBINSON: They may very well have done that. And to be perfectly candid, Jane, I`m not convinced that that child went missing that night. That`s what everybody is reporting. That`s what everybody is being led to believe.

But for all we know, that child went missing days prior to that, maybe two weeks. I know that Crystal said that she had seen the child two weeks prior to the disappearance when Haleigh disappeared. So I`m just wondering did the child really disappear that night? Did something else happen?

PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And, you know, Jane, when you`re looking also, you`re talking about if she doesn`t have a criminal record, I mean, what do we have to look at? Her elementary school records? Her middle school records? Her high school personnel record? That`s where you`re going to find her record. I mean, she was a 16- year-old girl. Now she`s 17. She`s married.

This whole thing is just a colossal circus. Can you imagine this poor missing child? We see a marriage take place, and now there`s a custody battle going on. Does anyone remember this Haleigh?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a great point.

WEINTRAUB: Crystal was only 17 when she had Haleigh to begin with. So, you know, for her to be casting dispersions on Misty because she`s 17 years old and she`s just a child, I mean, that`s just not fair.

VRANICH: But also remember, Crystal lost custody of the children back in 2005. There has to be a reason. I think both parties were alleging that each other was -- had these substance abuse problems.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what?

VRANICH: But the judge made a finding -- I mean, maybe based on something obviously concrete. And usually the mother is awarded custody. Isn`t that right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is.

This is going to be an ugly custody fight, but apparently the mom hasn`t filed for custody yet. Why not?

VRANICH: She hasn`t since, apparently, December of 2005 when she lost custody of both of these children, and these new allegations of a beating -- and I`m assuming it`s Junior at this point. We don`t know when these beatings occurred and if it was Haleigh and/or Junior.

So the question really becomes is -- are these allegations credible? Will family services move forward with an investigation? Are they current? Are they current? We have no idea when they happened, who they happened to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If they happened.

WEINTRAUB: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If they happened.

(CROSSFIRE)

ROBINSON: The dad already said that he spanked the kids.

VRANICH: But that`s corporate punishment. That`s not child abuse.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Settle down. We`re going to talk more about this in a second. Much more to analyze. Stunning abuse claims.

What do you think of all this, this war between missing Haleigh`s mom and dad? Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. Let me know.

In other shocking news tonight, details flood in about Casey Anthony`s murder trial. I will take a look at the prosecution`s new strategy.

But first, the custody battle for Haleigh Cummings` little brother heats up big-time. Some wonder if dad, Ron, married Misty to keep custody of Junior. Here`s Misty`s take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSLIN: Everybody is going to take this marriage thing the wrong way, but it`s not. It`s still focused -- everything is still focused on Haleigh. This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I just got home from work. My 5-year-old daughter is gone. I need somebody to be here now. I`m telling you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Listen to me, we`ve got two officers.

CUMMINGS: If I find whoever has my daughter before you all do, I`m killing them. I don`t care if I spend the rest of my life in prison. I`m telling you, you can put it on the record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A father`s desperate phone call as he frantically looks for his missing little girl. Ron Cummings says he`s fighting for Haleigh. By the looks of it, he`ll have to start fighting for his son, Junior, as well. The custody battle heating up. We`re taking your calls.

Betty, North Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am? Betty?

CALLER: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How you doing, ma`am?

CALLER: Just fine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, please?

CALLER: I wanted to know if they tested Misty`s hair or her for drugs the night Haleigh was missing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to the former trooper, Rick Robinson. Is that something that they would do right away?

ROBINSON: There`s actually a number of things. I`m sure that they -- and I remember that we talked about the polygraph examination. They more than likely did ask her if they would do that, but they would need a subpoena to make her do it. I don`t know that they did. And we would know that. We would know that. Search warrant for her blood. You`re exactly right, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear Jayne Weintraub talking.

WEINTRAUB: They would need a search warrant, not a subpoena. But -- but nevertheless, they don`t do that right away. They -- these are victims reporting a crime. And when the police show up, that`s not the very first thing they ask. And they didn`t ask her to take a polygraph until the next day.

They take first what they have at face value. They see if they can get statements from the parents. Remember how cooperative both Ron and Misty were.

ROBINSON: Well, they appeared to be.

WEINTRAUB: They did give polygraphs. They said they were cooperative. And we don`t know to the contrary. So with all due deference to the former trooper, we do not know to the contrary.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But I will say that they did appear to be a little bit late on certain pieces of key evidence like taking the door, the infamous door that was left open with a -- some kind of a block, a cement block. Apparently, they just took that a couple of days ago. That should have been taken...

ROBINSON: I know they did cordon it off as a crime scene. And I -- to the best of my knowledge, has anybody even been allowed to go in there other than law enforcement?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We had a reporter who said he himself touched it, and his fingerprints would be on it.

But anyway, Nancy, West Virginia, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Hi, Jane, again. I have a comment. But I just want to address one little thing that one of your experts said, that -- that he thinks that she could have possibly been missing a week or two, nobody had seen her. But didn`t the paternal great-grandmother just stop there a couple hours before?

ROBINSON: That`s what she said. That`s what she said, but that doesn`t make it so because she said that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I don`t think we can implicate everybody here. I mean, you`d need a vast conspiracy for that to be the case. I think it`s...

ROBINSON: I think she would have a personal interest.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s well-documented that people saw her up until early that evening. And where it gets complicated is once Misty says she put her to bed at 8 p.m. So at that point, this is what`s so crazy about this case. Is how could there be inconsistencies when they`re all in this trailer, supposedly, by themselves for a few hours?

WEINTRAUB: You know what? You can hear his voice. You can hear Ronald`s voice when he calls the 911 and says that she`s missing. You can hear the credibility in that desperate father.

ROBINSON: Maybe you can hear it. I don`t think all of America -- I didn`t feel that way. I didn`t feel that way at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. You know what? That had a lot of credibility, but I want to roll up to one of the things that we had was -- well, we`ll get to it in a second. But essentially, it was, I believe, on "The Today Show," where he was asked why this discrepancy about the bathroom? Have you talked to Misty? And Misty is sitting right there. And have you talked to Misty about why she used the bathroom way over there where she could see the open door, instead of using the bathroom right behind her that`s adjoining the bedroom?

And basically, said he didn`t really have an answer to that. Now, how is that possible?

WEINTRAUB: I hate to be so crude, but maybe...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the woman that lost your kid and you don`t have an answer to a very key question?

ROBINSON: This is exactly what I`m saying. These things are just not adding up. All of the information that we`re talking about, this is just not feeling right to me. And obviously, it was investigated.

WEINTRAUB: Of course. They`re in very close quarters. And maybe she`s being respectful and maybe she`s being...

ROBINSON: Yes, maybe, maybe, yes. But it doesn`t make any sense. It doesn`t make any sense, and you know it.

WEINTRAUB: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Candy in Michigan. Candy.

CALLER: Sorry about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No problem.

CALLER: First of all, thank you, Jane, for giving a voice to the little ones that can`t speak for themselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you. And we pray that showing little Haleigh`s photos, something will jar somebody`s memory out there and will help find her.

CALLER: I am sure it will.

First of all, let`s put things in proper perspective. This is a 25- year-old man that just married a girl only 12 years older than his missing daughter. And then he stood up there and said he had no enemies.

Well, listening to the 911 tape, he has a temper. And if you have a bad temper, you have enemies. I think they ought to be looking at the father and his associates a little bit closer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, nobody has been excluded as a suspect, but let`s go to our psychologist for an answer on that one.

VRANICH: I like the idea of looking at them a little bit closer. I think we can guess a lot about the personalities and what they might be thinking, but I`m really looking forward to some psychological assessments being done, particularly on Misty. She strikes me as a very young 17-year-old, as someone who could be malleable or impressionable.

So I`m really looking forward to seeing when they do psychological tests what comes up concretely.

VRANICH: Great point. Jane, what`s going to happen is family services and/or Crystal does move forward with the custody application. Certainly, a court is going to order that a forensic psychologist come into play and interview all family members. That`s going to happen.

CALLAN: Jane, I think we should be very clear about one thing, too. In a long-term investigation like this, everybody remains a suspect. And as we go back and revisit the crime scene and revisit the facts of the investigation, everybody is a potential suspect in this case.

So, you know, the father can get on board and say he`s not, but I`m betting the police are looking at everybody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank my excellent panel. Great analysis. We`re going to have you back real soon. Thank you

<end of Haleigh coverage>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/18/ijvm.01.html