Obama Birth Certificate - Post Election Quest Continues

[caesu]

The published copy of Obama's birth certificate is a fake.

But it can't be denied that Barakah Hussain Obama was born to a Muslim father, then adopted by a muslim step father and went to an Islamic school in Indonesia. That basically makes him a muslim.
That's all well and good except for the fact that as a muslim he can't convert to Christianity without becoming an apostate. He will be invited to convert back to Islam but if he doesn't the penalty according to Islamic law is death.
Facts.

this argument that from time to time came up at those right-wing blogs i find so ridiculous.

are you saying that Islamic Law supersedes the Bill of Rights in the United States??

[caesu]

The published copy of Obama's birth certificate is a fake.

and this certificate is issued by the Hawaii State Department.
not a fake.

my advise: get over it. accept the reality.
all these nutty conspiracy theories are very nice for in a movie. but it is all fiction.

[WhiskeyGirl]

The published copy of Obama's birth certificate is a fake.

and this certificate is issued by the Hawaii State Department.
not a fake.

my advise: get over it. accept the reality.
all these nutty conspiracy theories are very nice for in a movie. but it is all fiction.

I'm waiting for the movie and the original file to surface.

[oldiebutgoodie]

The published copy of Obama's birth certificate is a fake.

But it can't be denied that Barakah Hussain Obama was born to a Muslim father, then adopted by a muslim step father and went to an Islamic school in Indonesia. That basically makes him a muslim.
That's all well and good except for the fact that as a muslim he can't convert to Christianity without becoming an apostate. He will be invited to convert back to Islam but if he doesn't the penalty according to Islamic law is death.
Facts.

Sources, please? It is not enough to make wild proclamations and pretend it is true. Back it up with some facts, some links, some cites. Show us the source of your information. Then we can dialogue. Thanks.

[oldiebutgoodie]

Although the elder Obama was raised as a Muslim, no evidence supports the claim that he was ever a "radical Muslim," and Senator Obama's family histories note that his father was an atheist or agnostic (i.e., no longer a practicing Muslim) by the time he married the younger Obama's mother.  Of his mother's religious views, Senator Obama wrote:

"For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness.

This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways - and not necessarily the best way - that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives.

In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well."

Barack Obama's parents separated when he was two years old, his father moving to Connecticut to continue his education before returning to Kenya. When the younger Obama was six years old, his mother married again, this time to Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian oil manager.  Barack and his mother moved to Jakarta, Indonesia, where Obama spent 4-5 years attending both Muslim and Catholic schools before his mother sent him back to the United States to live with his maternal grandmother.  The school Barack Obama attended in Indonesia was "Muslim" primarily in the sense that the preponderance of its student body was Muslim (because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country), but both the Muslim and Catholic schools he attended in Indonesia offered a few hours of religious instruction each week.

Obama writes: "During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables."

Barack Obama never stated that he "was once a Muslim" (radical or otherwise), so his "handlers" have nothing to "conceal."  Obama communications director Robert Gibbs noted that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim. As a six-year-old in Catholic school, he studied the catechism."  Barack Obama has been associated with the United Church of Christ since the mid-1980s, describes himself as a Christian, and says that he is "rooted in the Christian tradition."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XxQQ9zP5VOc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/XxQQ9zP5VOc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

As noted above, Barack Obama's parents divorced when he was only two years old, and his father then moved thousands of miles away, from Hawaii to Connecticut, so he couldn't have received much of an "introduction to Islam" from his (biological) father.

President Obama wrote: "At the time of his death, my father remained a myth to me, both more and less than a man. He had left Hawaii back in 1963, when I was only two years old, so that as a child I knew him only through the stories that my mother and grandparents told."

The claim that Obama attended a radical Wahabbist school in Indonesia in the mid-1960s is exceedingly far-fetched, given that:   The large Indonesian community resident in Mecca was a medium through which knowledge about Wahhabism reached Indonesia, but the community itself appears to have remained virtually immune to Wahhabi influences. In reality there was little direct influence of Wahhabism on Indonesian reformist thought until the 1970s.

Insight magazine (owned by the Rev. Moon) claimed in a January 2007 article that Barack Obama spent at least four years attending what is variously described as a "madrassa," a "radical Muslim religious school," or a "Muslim seminary" in Indonesia, but  CNN has more recently reported that its own investigation found those claims to be false:  CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate. He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the 'Situation Room.' "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

A spokesman for Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs said claims that Obama studied at an Islamic school are groundless.

"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."

Obama later transferred to SDN Menteng 1 the elite, secular elementary school at the center of the controversy. The school is public but is very competitive and has exceptionally high standards. It is located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta and attracts mostly middle- to upper-class students, among them several of former dictator Suharto's grandchildren.

All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school.

To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.  Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.

Obama is unapologetic in saying he has a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

CITE/SOURCE FOR THE ABOVE (with the exception of the YouTube video)

And after all of the above, "seeing is believing" and "a picture is worth a thousand words" so there is this photo of the reaction of schoolchildren in Obama's former public school in Indonesia to the news of his election victory (and nary a radical Wahaabist to be seen!):


NOTE: Boys and girls together in close physical proximity.

NOTE: Education at this school is coed.

NOTE: Boys and girls both wear the same clothing (uniform).

Hmm... looks pretty secular (public schoolish) to me. 

[WhiskeyGirl]

Although the elder Obama was raised as a Muslim, no evidence supports the claim that he was ever a "radical Muslim," and Senator Obama's family histories note that his father was an atheist or agnostic (i.e., no longer a practicing Muslim) by the time he married the younger Obama's mother.  Of his mother's religious views, Senator Obama wrote:

"For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness.

This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways - and not necessarily the best way - that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives.

In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well."

Barack Obama's parents separated when he was two years old, his father moving to Connecticut to continue his education before returning to Kenya. When the younger Obama was six years old, his mother married again, this time to Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian oil manager.  Barack and his mother moved to Jakarta, Indonesia, where Obama spent 4-5 years attending both Muslim and Catholic schools before his mother sent him back to the United States to live with his maternal grandmother.  The school Barack Obama attended in Indonesia was "Muslim" primarily in the sense that the preponderance of its student body was Muslim (because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country), but both the Muslim and Catholic schools he attended in Indonesia offered a few hours of religious instruction each week.

Obama writes: "During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables."

Barack Obama never stated that he "was once a Muslim" (radical or otherwise), so his "handlers" have nothing to "conceal."  Obama communications director Robert Gibbs noted that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim. As a six-year-old in Catholic school, he studied the catechism."  Barack Obama has been associated with the United Church of Christ since the mid-1980s, describes himself as a Christian, and says that he is "rooted in the Christian tradition."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XxQQ9zP5VOc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/XxQQ9zP5VOc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

As noted above, Barack Obama's parents divorced when he was only two years old, and his father then moved thousands of miles away, from Hawaii to Connecticut, so he couldn't have received much of an "introduction to Islam" from his (biological) father.

President Obama wrote: "At the time of his death, my father remained a myth to me, both more and less than a man. He had left Hawaii back in 1963, when I was only two years old, so that as a child I knew him only through the stories that my mother and grandparents told."

The claim that Obama attended a radical Wahabbist school in Indonesia in the mid-1960s is exceedingly far-fetched, given that:   The large Indonesian community resident in Mecca was a medium through which knowledge about Wahhabism reached Indonesia, but the community itself appears to have remained virtually immune to Wahhabi influences. In reality there was little direct influence of Wahhabism on Indonesian reformist thought until the 1970s.

Insight magazine (owned by the Rev. Moon) claimed in a January 2007 article that Barack Obama spent at least four years attending what is variously described as a "madrassa," a "radical Muslim religious school," or a "Muslim seminary" in Indonesia, but  CNN has more recently reported that its own investigation found those claims to be false:  CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate. He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the 'Situation Room.' "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

A spokesman for Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs said claims that Obama studied at an Islamic school are groundless.

"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."

Obama later transferred to SDN Menteng 1 the elite, secular elementary school at the center of the controversy. The school is public but is very competitive and has exceptionally high standards. It is located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta and attracts mostly middle- to upper-class students, among them several of former dictator Suharto's grandchildren.

All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school.

To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian.  Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.

Obama is unapologetic in saying he has a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ."

CITE/SOURCE FOR THE ABOVE (with the exception of the YouTube video)

And after all of the above, "seeing is believing" and "a picture is worth a thousand words" so there is this photo of the reaction of schoolchildren in Obama's former public school in Indonesia to the news of his election victory (and nary a radical Wahaabist to be seen!):


NOTE: Boys and girls together in close physical proximity.

NOTE: Education at this school is coed.

NOTE: Boys and girls both wear the same clothing (uniform).

Hmm... looks pretty secular (public schoolish) to me. 

Just askin...

What does that fist jab of the students signify?  I've seen something like that before.

What kind of politics helped shape Obama's years in Indonesia?

..the New Order tended to rely on a group of American-educated economists, nicknamed the "Berkeley Mafia," to set policy. Soon after coming to power, Suharto implemented a number of reforms meant to establish Indonesia as a center of foreign investment. Changes included privatizing state owned natural resources to promote their exploitation by industrialized nations, making labour laws favorable to multinational corporations, and soliciting funds for development from institutions including the World Bank, Western banks, and friendly governments.[1] Indonesia would experience unprecedented growth, as measured by Gross Domestic Product, thanks to its export driven economy. However, members of the military and Golkar Party acted without accountability. Key figures from the military and Golkar were heavily involved as intermediaries between the booming corporations (foreign and domestic) and the Indonesian government. This led to a great deal of corruption in the form of bribery, racketeering, and embezzlement. Funds from these practices often flowed to foundations (yayasan) controlled by the Suharto family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Indonesia)

Let see.  Obama want to change the tax laws that currently entice some taxpayers to support their favorite charities and not for profits.  In my mind, this will encourage charities and not for profits to stop documenting donations.  In the past, donations were documented to provide tax documents to those making a donation.  So, while some may be motivated to donate less, how many will donate more some not for profits (527's?) knowing there will be little if any paper trail?   Not a problem for groups like ACORN, they seem to have been taken care of in the budget.  Instead of sharing the prosperity with all charities, one seems to making a 'windfall profit'.

Non-political contacts, however, have been long established and most students are aware of their privileged status in a country where fewer than half the population has more than seven years of schooling.

Students have to perform compulsory social work as part of their course and were encouraged by President Suharto to regard themselves as privileged with responsibilities to the greater public.

This responsibility meant toeing the government line, but the economic catastrophe Indonesia has experienced since late last year caused increasing numbers of students to question their government and to reflect on where their true responsibility lay.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=107749&sectioncode=26

The new order from the 60's ended with economic catastrophe.  Wow.

What do those Obama school records show was his religion?  Inquiring minds want to know.

jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

This is the leadership that shaped the Obama early education -

Suharto then proceeded to reshape government in ways that destroyed all hopes of democracy for the entire duration of his rule. While Indonesia is impossibly diverse in ethnic terms and notoriously difficult to govern, Suharto’s approach was to eviscerate the rule of law and make the military his prime instrument of social control. With censorship integral to his rule, he left precious little space even for discussion of his policies. Indonesia has spent much of the past ten years recovering from the consequences.

The judiciary was thoroughly politicized under Suharto, its professionalism severely undercut by its blatantly subservient role. Although there was some slow opening toward the end, genuinely independent civil society groups were not tolerated for most of Suharto’s rule; fear of surveillance haunted the press, the campus, and the public square.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/02/13/justice-suharto-era-crimes-still-matters

Such policies, however, could not still the resentment at the disparities of wealth within Indonesia. Three-quarters of the private capital in the country was controlled by the ethnic Chinese, who made up only two per cent of the population. And while the gap between rich and poor continued to widen, members of the President’s family were given outrageous monopolies. His wife, Tien, was now known as "Mrs Tien Per Cent". His children accumulated billions of dollars through their interests in telecommunications, hotels, cars and other businesses. "You arrive at an airport owned by Suharto’s son," wrote one journalist, "you go to town in a taxi owned by his daughter, paying a road toll to another son, and find your hotel is owned by another member of the family."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1576680/General-Suharto.html

...After Suharto fell, newspapers reported that the head of military intelligence was being investigated for forging large amounts of currency. When reporters questioned the general about this, he engagingly replied: ‘Look, what could I do? Our budget had been cut to nothing, and the high command couldn’t give me any more money, but there were all these militias in East Timor who hadn’t been paid for a long time and were getting really upset.’ ...

In the US, we just have the Federal Reserve and Treasury fire up the printing presses or keep adding zeros.

..In the early 1990s, he had been persuaded by Washington to ‘open up’ his country more widely to global financial capital. A lot of fast money flowed into a plethora of shady new banks created to take advantage of this sudden bonanza. By then Suharto was living on borrowed time. Indonesia had become a net importer of oil, and the forests were largely gone. Local industrial development was weak, and the education system had been decaying for years. When the ‘Asian Crisis’ broke out, Indonesia was hit harder than any other country. Within a few weeks the rupiah lost four-fifths of its exchange value. Dozens of banks went bankrupt. Millions of people lost their jobs. The national debt climbed dizzyingly...

America's future?  Washington's  commitment to 'free trade' and international loan sharks financing out nation's debt.  Money spent and nothing to show for it but a web site.  The US is losing jobs and out debt is dizzying...

http://www.newleftreview.org/?view=2714

jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

Obama birth "conjecture"?

...University students are about to produce a film about Obama's birth.
These University of Hawaii students will use a cast of local people for the story that takes place at Kapiolani Medical Center, the place where it is conjectured Obama was born. The story will relate how nurses and staff would feel if they knew that the child born there was going to grow up to be President of the United States. It focuses on one nurse in particular passed over for promotion and the baby that is born, with the impact that the event eventually had. The students are advertising for a cast and crew to sign up for this film.

The author lived 28 years in Hawaii, is acquainted with people who knew Ann and her son. The hospital named for the film is likely where he was born as it is located in Makiki, near the University on Punahou Street in Honolulu near where the grandparents lived and where Barack Obama, the current President, attended School at Punahou, one of Honolulu's finest.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/268711

Why not base the movie on facts?  Maybe they will include interviews with the actual people involved in the birth?

"Born In Hawaii" is a fictional story based loosely on the nurses who worked at Kapiolani Medical Center when Barack Obama was born.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090306/BREAKING04/90306077/-1

All the drama...what happened to facts?  Obama has the authority to release this birth file and original certificate, does he have the audacity?

[nonesuche]

I continue to have the audacity to ask. It's a given that he could not have dual citizenship for the US and Indonesia, Indonesia doesn't allow it.

[LouiseVargas]

Do you know for sure he has an Indonesian birth certificate?

I'm sorry if I missed your souce of info ... can you post it again please?

Also, since Obama lives in America, it doesn't matter if Indonesia allows him to be an American citizen. Indonesia is not in the picture.

Obama is the 44th President of the United States of America. Period. 

[LouiseVargas]

More two cents.

If anyone really feels that Obama is the Chosen, the Messiah and/or the Annointed One, you have to give credit to God for creating him. If God created him and presented him to us as the above, then God is keeping him in office.

[oldiebutgoodie]

I do not understand the connection between a world leader (at that time) such as Suharto (or whoever it was) and the mind of a small child (at that time) such as Barack Obama.

Are there claims now being made that the six-year-old Barack Obama was an avid devotee of the Indonesian President and his politics?

Is the now-adult Barack Obama being blamed for not having personally overthrown the Indonesian government as a six or seven-year-old child?

Just trying to puzzle out the logic here.

Another example of this type of thinking...

Japanese and English are my native or first language. I learned them together at the same time as if they were the same language. We were a military family (my Dad was an officer in the Air Force) and travelled quite extensively and settled in Japan at the time of my life when I was learning what language was and how to use it to communicate with other humans, namely my Mother and my Japanese nanny, Mieko.

I couldn't tell you who was President or Prime Minister of Japan at that time. I never knew anything about their politics. I didn't know what politics was at 8 months old or 18 months old. I probably didn't know much of anything about politics until the Kennedy-Nixon televised debates (I was ten years old at that time).

So, should I now be held personally responsible for anything that any Japanese politician said or did in the early 1950's? Does that make any kind of sense to anybody?

Barack Obama was a little boy who was being yanked from one place to another by the adults in his life. He had no say in the matter. And when he was still quite young, he was shipped off to his grandparents back in the United States. His grandparents from Kansas.

Being disappointed that Barack Obama attended public school instead of an extremist terrorist training ground when he was a small child does not make him responsible for whatever any country's politicians said or did when he was a small child.

The election is over. President Obama is now President.

Rather than dwell on some hate group's fantastical fantasies, if one wants to challenge President Obama's actual policies or actual statements or actual philosophies that he's actually expressed, why not just do that? Stick to what's true and what can be cited (sourced) and proven. Wish-fulfillment fantasies of how to demonize an object of hate are not really good grounds for dialogue and debate.

Let's stick to what's real. I'm going to post some really great points of contention about President Obama in the next day or so and I think it would be a lot of fun and quite interesting to discuss and debate some things that he's actually done and actually said.
 

[WhiskeyGirl]

I do not understand the connection between a world leader (at that time) such as Suharto (or whoever it was) and the mind of a small child (at that time) such as Barack Obama.

Are there claims now being made that the six-year-old Barack Obama was an avid devotee of the Indonesian President and his politics?

Is the now-adult Barack Obama being blamed for not having personally overthrown the Indonesian government as a six or seven-year-old child?

Just trying to puzzle out the logic here.

Another example of this type of thinking...

Japanese and English are my native or first language. I learned them together at the same time as if they were the same language. We were a military family (my Dad was an officer in the Air Force) and travelled quite extensively and settled in Japan at the time of my life when I was learning what language was and how to use it to communicate with other humans, namely my Mother and my Japanese nanny, Mieko.

I couldn't tell you who was President or Prime Minister of Japan at that time. I never knew anything about their politics. I didn't know what politics was at 8 months old or 18 months old. I probably didn't know much of anything about politics until the Kennedy-Nixon televised debates (I was ten years old at that time).

So, should I now be held personally responsible for anything that any Japanese politician said or did in the early 1950's? Does that make any kind of sense to anybody?

Barack Obama was a little boy who was being yanked from one place to another by the adults in his life. He had no say in the matter. And when he was still quite young, he was shipped off to his grandparents back in the United States. His grandparents from Kansas.

Being disappointed that Barack Obama attended public school instead of an extremist terrorist training ground when he was a small child does not make him responsible for whatever any country's politicians said or did when he was a small child.

The election is over. President Obama is now President.

Rather than dwell on some hate group's fantastical fantasies, if one wants to challenge President Obama's actual policies or actual statements or actual philosophies that he's actually expressed, why not just do that? Stick to what's true and what can be cited (sourced) and proven. Wish-fulfillment fantasies of how to demonize an object of hate are not really good grounds for dialogue and debate.

Let's stick to what's real. I'm going to post some really great points of contention about President Obama in the next day or so and I think it would be a lot of fun and quite interesting to discuss and debate some things that he's actually done and actually said.
 

In many places, the government writes or authorizes the principles put into textbooks.  Politics determines the version of history students learn, irregardless of how the global community, and honest scholar may view the version or principles being taught.  So, the government of any country helps to shape the education of students.  Isn't that what Obama has plans for?  New teachers, TRAINING new teachers that can teach anyone?  my opinions.

[LouiseVargas]

Thank you oldiebutgoodie, I bow down to you for being to express an opinion without having to refer to sources. That is exactly what I seek here on the Political Forum ... a fact and then an opinion. I am tired of endless "quotes." I read the news, too. I want to know how people feel about the facts.

Your post was so astute. You have given me renewed faith here in the Political Forum. Thank you again. 

[nonesuche]

Do you know for sure he has an Indonesian birth certificate?

I'm sorry if I missed your souce of info ... can you post it again please?

Also, since Obama lives in America, it doesn't matter if Indonesia allows him to be an American citizen. Indonesia is not in the picture.

Obama is the 44th President of the United States of America. Period. 

Louise I have a number of posts on this thread with the information and links. I don't have time to repost all of it again.

[LouiseVargas]

Today I found the official name of the group disputing Obama's birth records. "The Birthers'"
**********************
The Birthers' Continue to Hound Obama
AOL (March 1) - Ever since Barack Obama became a prominent political fixture in the country, he has encountered a large number of rumors and smears concerning him and his family. There was the one rumor about him being a secret Muslim (he is a practicing Christian). And there was the one allegation his wife, Michelle, was caught on videotape using the word "whitey" (no such clip has ever surfaced).
Most of the charges were, for the most part, put to rest by vigorous responses from the Obama team during the campaign. But one conspiracy theory lives on -- despite overwhelming evidence debunking it. Politico.com reports that the Birthers -- a persistent group of conservatives who believe Obama is ineligible to be president because of alleged questions surrounding his birth status -- continue to operate and thrive on the fringe. "Some individuals and groups who are opposed to Obama's presidency want an 'acceptable' reason to cite to convince other individuals and groups who might be on the fence to join in their way of thinking," said Patricia Turner, who studies rumors at the University of California, Davis.
For the record, officials in Hawaii declared last October that there was no doubt Obama was born in the state. Officials verified that the health department holds the commander in chief's original birth certificate. But others are still undeterred. A lawsuit filed in California by a group called the United States Justice Foundation seeks records from Occidental College, where Obama attended school for a period, in order to verify his nationality -- and thus his presidential eligibility.

Come on everyone, he is president already and will be for the next four years. No birth certificate is going to be produced to make him resign. It's not gonna happen.

Kind regards from Louise

[WhiskeyGirl]

A group may go by many names "birthers", "truthseekers", and "nutters".  I think the birth conspiracy will continue for generations.  jmho

[WhiskeyGirl]

After all is said and done, doesn't Obama have $10 to make the conspiracy theorists happy?  Show once and for all that nothing scary is lurking in his original birth file?  School records?  Financial aid records?  Life?