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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18/09 - 2/21/09  (Read 59652 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #360 on: February 18, 2009, 08:34:22 PM »




I think I may need to learn to knit!   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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« Reply #361 on: February 18, 2009, 08:34:29 PM »

To correct the quote stack from my prior post!



3. I am here for the same reason everyone else is-until today when you all threw me under the bus.


You asked for it, you got it.  You came in defending someone who only came here to start trouble, and started attacking some that were here.  You knew what would happen!  Now stop the nonsense!  Please!

 
Good Lord! I don't even know what these people disagree with us about. Not a one of them has told us what they think -- only that we are cruel bastards to doubt the Persistence crew and caps!

 


I want to quote Robots right now, but I will refrain.

I know how you feel Magnolia, and I bet I've got the same quote in mind; but I'll refrain too.  


perhaps billb will come along and speak for Robots! 
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« Reply #362 on: February 18, 2009, 08:36:00 PM »

I am not one of the people who can give you any clarification about caps, silvetti or any thing you claim to ask. But do you really think anyone who MIGHT think they have answers would come in here and DISCUSS anything? I was just accused of numerous incorrect things along with a whole lot more.......no one said "hey that 's not fair" , or "hey BB has been a poster here for a long time and wants justice like us'. nope- under the bus 1-2-3 . Just sayin'
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« Reply #363 on: February 18, 2009, 08:37:08 PM »

Oh sorry I wasn't quite done yet. A grown person posting pictures of cheerleaders? You have to be kidding! People post pictures of kittens, dogs, dogs with clothes on, wreaths, recipes........geesh. Cheerleaders are mild.

pencils, broken pencils, dissappearing pencils
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« Reply #364 on: February 18, 2009, 08:38:32 PM »

Where's Janet?
We need a perk up after listening to how rotten and terrible we are all day. 

A Kyle Kingman's own words reminder would be nice too.
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #365 on: February 18, 2009, 08:39:01 PM »

Oh sorry I wasn't quite done yet. A grown person posting pictures of cheerleaders? You have to be kidding! People post pictures of kittens, dogs, dogs with clothes on, wreaths, recipes........geesh. Cheerleaders are mild.

pencils, broken pencils, dissappearing pencils

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"We won't give up on you, Natalee.  You didn't give up on us, and we will continue with the investigation until we have all of the answers to your disappearance.  God be with you my Natalee!" Dave Holloway ARUBA
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All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #366 on: February 18, 2009, 08:39:26 PM »

Scrollin Scrollin Scrollin.......
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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« Reply #367 on: February 18, 2009, 08:41:01 PM »

To correct the quote stack from my prior post!



3. I am here for the same reason everyone else is-until today when you all threw me under the bus.


You asked for it, you got it.  You came in defending someone who only came here to start trouble, and started attacking some that were here.  You knew what would happen!  Now stop the nonsense!  Please!

 
Good Lord! I don't even know what these people disagree with us about. Not a one of them has told us what they think -- only that we are cruel bastards to doubt the Persistence crew and caps!

 


I want to quote Robots right now, but I will refrain.

I know how you feel Magnolia, and I bet I've got the same quote in mind; but I'll refrain too.  




Well, maybe San will say it!  Last time I saw her, she had on her new cap but the zipper was off her mouth.

 
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #368 on: February 18, 2009, 08:41:11 PM »

IN AN ATTEMPT TO FOLLOW THE MONEY, LETS TAKE A LOOK AT THE CARIBBEAN MERCANTILE BANK

we know the Caribbean Mercantile Bank NV opened in 1962 as a subsidiary of
Maduro and Curiel's bank of Curacao,

In the 30s during a worldwide depression Shon jojo Alveraz Correa proposed that
his bank merge with Curiel's bank.
snip
this time a nation not only managed to weather that difficult period in time but also expanded
to Aruba and 1936. In 1961 this branch became the Caribbean Mercantile Bank
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf
page 33/50

Established on Aruba in 1962, Caribbean Mercantile Bank N.V. is a full service commercial bank as well as a subsidiary of Maduro & Curiel's Bank N.V. Curaçao, and affiliated with the Bank of Nova Scotia, of Toronto, Canada
www.cmbnv.com/main.html.

WE KNOW THAT IN 1970 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA BOUGHT 30% OF THE EQUITY CAPITAL
AND THEN IT EXPANDED TO 49% OF THE MADURO AND CURIEL'S BANK


In 1970 Bank Mees and Hope had to sell their shares to another Dutch bank and they
sold their shares back. After an internal reshuffling among the original shareholders
families the final proportion in the ownership of the Maduro and Curiel Bank became
51% for the original shareholders and 49% for the Bank of Nova Scotia which remains
the distribution of MCB's shares as a major shareholder in MCB Scotia Bank is also
represented in the boa rds of supervisory directors and the managing director's. Since
that management of Maduro and Curiel's bank has been in the hands of three managing
directors one of which is appointed by Scotia Bank.
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf

We know that in 2005 the Maduro and Curiel's bank had four subsidiary banks on the island of Aruba
the Caribbean Mercantile Bank, and it appears to have three subsidiaries

Aruba
Caribbean Mercantile Bank NV
Caribbean Mercantile Credit company NV
Caribbean Mercantile Securities
Administration Company NV
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf
from page 19 of the 2005 annual report

and we know the subsidiary, the Caribbean Mercantile Credit Company NV
is affiliated with the Bank of Nova Scotia


2004-Caribbean Mercantile Credit Co.NV
made significant inroads and capturing large segments of the car financing market.....
we are the only remaining b ank in Aruba with worldwide credentials through our
international affiliation with the Bank of Nova Scotia and Canada


Our subsidiary, Caribbean Mercantile Credit Co.NV Af filiated with. The Bank of Nova Scotia,. Toronto, Canada
www.cmbnv.com/pics/arg/2004/CMBAnnRep2004.pdf
page 6/30



in order to get a full understanding you need to take a look at the history of the
Bank of Nova Scotia and the Maduro & Curiel's Banks


BEFORE LOOKING BACK THROUGH THE HISTORY OF THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA OF TORONTO, CANADA


We must realize that several high-ranking members Cuntrera-Caruana moved to
Montréal in the 50s and became Canadian citizens in 1957

Pasquale Cuntrera and Leonardo Caruana moved to Montreal in Canada, while Giuseppe Caruana preferred Rio de Janeiro, where the now 86-year old family boss still resides in good health
snip
The Cuntrera-Caruana clan in all probability was involved in the trafficking networks. Some family-members had moved to Montreal in the 1950s. Canadian immigration records show Pasquale and Liborio Cuntrera arrived in 1951 and acquired Canadian nationality in 1957. (29) They moved up and down setting up base at both sides of the Atlantic

the Montréal- New York connection proved to be one of the gateways for narcotics to
the world's biggest consumer market


T he Montreal-New York and Caracas-Miami conne ctions proved to be the g ateway for narcotics to the world's biggest consumer-market. From its Venezuelan base the Cuntrera-Caruana clan supplied whatever drug was in demand – heroin, cocaine and cannabis. As their importance grew, however, the clan finally started to get to the attention of law enforcement agencies around the world
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

In one bank alone Bourque traced nearly 16 million US dollars laundered through accounts of Alfonso Caruana. Every week a c ouple of Sicilians entered the branch of the City & District Bank in the Montreal suburb Dollard-des-Ormeaux carrying hockey-bags filled with half a million in cash. The tellers spent a half day counting the small bills. The clan brought in its dirty dollars and walked out with clean bank drafts. Thirty-six million US d o llars ended up in Swiss bank-accounts whi c h were used to pay the Sici l ian heroin suppliers. (64) The dollars the clan transported to Canada were enough to supply the Montreal money-exchange market with its weekly requisite of US cash. Bourque could trace some US$ 50 million laundered by the clan through 4 Canadian banks from 1978 until 1984
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

THE CUNTRERA- CARUANA FAMILY EVENTUALLY SETTLED IN TORONTO

(This column was published in the North Shore News on Mar. 22, 2000)
A couple of weeks ago in this space, I told you the story of the arrest and conviction of the top
echelon of the largest drug dealers in the world, the Cuntrera-Caruana crime family in Toronto.
snip
In the interim, the Cuntrera-Caruana family, under the leadership of Alfonso, had firmly established a
foothold in Canada. Alfonso moved to Canada, following the murder of Mafia capo, Paul Volpe, into
a quiet suburb of Toronto, where he was to later claim he was a simple car-wash attendant. In reality,
he controlled the largest drug dealing network in the world
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDD1438F93BA1575AC0A96F948260

CANADA HAD NEVER PASSED A LAW MAKING MONEY LAUNDERING ILLEGAL
UNTIL 1988


Canada seen as m ajor haven for laundering drug money by Stephen Labaton, special to the New York Times
published September 28, 1989


''Canada does not fit the profile of the typical financial haven nation, yet it has been
a repository for drug monies in recent years as a result of certain anomalies in
Canadian law,'' the report said, noting that the country's statutes have no requirements
for reporting money that enters or leaves the country. ''Canada's stable political climate,
reasonably strong currency and well-developed banking system make it an attractive
repository or transshipment point for the movement of drug profits from U.S. drug
organizations.''
SNIP
Within the last year Canada has adopted laws that permit officials to freeze suspected
assets and have them forfeited for convictions of money laundering. The new laws
also make money laundering a crime for the first time in Canada, though American
authorities believe the laws are not as effective as those in the United States.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=
950DEFDD1438F93BA1575AC0A96F948260


now that I think it's been shown that they had been, and were a powerful force
in the Montréal area during the late 50s and 60s onward

IT APPEARS THAT DURING THE PERIOD OF THE LATE 50s EARLY 60s, THE
CUNTRERA-CARUANA FAMILY INFLUENCED/ TOOK OVER THE BANK OF
NOVA SCOTIA, GIVING THEM THE THING THEY NEEDED MOST, A WAY
TO MANAGE/LAUNDER THEIR MONEY


This is speculation at this time we need to find a confirming piece


now let's take a look at what happened through the late 50s onward at
the Bank of Nova Scotia

IN 1957 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA TRUST COMPANY (Bahamas)
LIMITED WAS STARTED



In December 1957, the Bank incorporated The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company
(Bahamas) Limited. It was formed in association with: Eagles Star Insurance Company
Limited; Philip Hill, Higginson & Company, Limited; and Sir Robert McAlpine & Sons,
Limited with the Bank owning 60% of the capital stock. Headquartered in Nassau,
Bahamas, it would become the parent company of smaller trust companies established
by the Bank in the Caribbean
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID11732_LIDen,00.html

IN 1958 THE BANK JOINED WITH BRITISH FINANCIAL INTERESTS
TO FORM THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA TRUST COMPANY TO
ENGAGE IN OFFSHORE AND TRUST OPERATIONS WHICH WERE
OFF-LIMITS TO FOREIGN BANKS



In 1958 the bank joined with British financial interests to form the Bank of Nova Scotia
Trust Company to engage in offshore and trust operations which were off-limits to
foreign banks. A year later, the Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company of New York
was established.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin


IN 1959 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA TRUST COMPANY OF
NEW YORK WAS FORMED


The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company of New York commenced business in 1959
in New York City
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID11732_LIDen,00.html

BEGINNING IN 1960, THE BANK AGGRESSIVELY PURSUED A
STRATEGY TO INCREASE ITS VOLUME OF DEPOSITS BY
ESTABLISHING NEW BRANCHES IN CANADA AS WELL AS ABROAD

Beginning in 1960, the bank aggressively pursued a strategy to increase its volume
of deposits by resuming the establishment of new branches in Canada as well as abroad.
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin

IN 1961/62 THE CARIBBEAN MERCANTILE BANK IS ESTABLISHED

In the 30s during a worldwide depression Shon jojo Alveraz Correa proposed that
his bank merge with Curiel's bank.
snip
this time a nation not only managed to weather that difficult period in time but also expanded
to Aruba and 1936. In 1961 this branch became the Caribbean Mercantile Bank


http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf
page 33/50

IN 1963 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA WENT THROUGH MAJOR
INTERNAL REORGANIZATION WHICH ALLOWED THE BANK TO
FURTHER DECENTRALIZE OPERATIONS


In 1963 the bank underwent a major internal reorganization, and a new profit
planning system was introduced that required each branch and region to submit
annual loan and deposit forecasts to be incorporated into the bank's overall plan.
This system allowed the bank to further decentralize operations, to
encourage competition among branches, and to better identify the services its
customers wanted
Meanwhile, business in the Caribbean continued to g row, despite losses in
Cuba. Much of this growth was hotel and resort financing in areas such as
Jamaica and Puerto Rico , w here tourism was becoming big business
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat= biz-fin

THE REST OF THE CLAN HAD MOVED TO CANADA HALFWAY
THROUGH THE 60s, THEY DID NOT GET ALONG WITH THEIR & lt; BR>HOST LIKE THEY SHOULD OF, SO THEY JUST ELIMINATED
HIM. IT APPEARS THEY IMMEDIATELY DECIDED TO EXERT
CONTROL


When the clan had to move to Canada half-way through the 1960s they found shelter
with the Montreal Cotroni Family, a sub-division of the New York Bonanno Family.
The logic of Mafia hierarchy requir ed the clan to be subordinate to the Cotroni bosses.
These bosses soon discovered they had lost control over their supposed Sicilian underlings
who had set up their own narcotics racket. When Cotroni boss Paolo Violi trie d
to re-establish his leadership, he was eliminated
snip
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba

IN 1967 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA TRUST COMPANY (CARIBBEAN)
LIMITED IS STARTED


The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company (Caribbean) Limited commenced business in
1967 in Barbados
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID11732_LIDen,00.html

IN 1970 THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA STARTED THE NEGOTIATIONS
AND ENDED UP BUYING 30% OF THE EQUITY CAPITAL OF THE MADURO
AND CURIEL'S BANK.
A SHORT TIME LATER IT CHANGE TO 49%


After riots of 1969 on Curacao. he received a surprise visit from Cedric Ritchie, at the
time chief General manager international of the Bank of Nova Scotia who had flown to
Curacao. He offered full support for the Maduro and Curiel Bank if it should experience
problems because of the turmoil. Until then Scotia Bank had served as a correspondent
bank to the Maduro and Curiel's bank
snip
in April of 1970 it was announced that the Bank of Nova Scotia had reached agreement
in principle to buy 30% of the equity capital of the Maduro and Curiel's bank
snip
In 1970 Bank Mees and Hope had to sell their shares to another Dutch bank and they
sold their shares back. After an internal reshuffling among the original shareholders families
the final proportion in the ownership of the Maduro and Curiel Bank became 51% for the
original shareholders and 49% for the Bank of Nova Scotia which remains the distribution
of MCB's shares as a major shareholder in MCB Scotia Bank is also represented in the
boa rds of supervisory directors and the managing director's. Since that management of
Maduro and Curiel's bank has been in the hands of three managing directors one of which
is appointed by Scotia Bank.
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf

When in 1975 bank Mees and hope was sold to a competing Dutch b ank it had to sell its sh ares back after the dust settled Maduro and Curiel Bank at 51% Bank of Nova Scotia had 49%
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf

IN 1972 CEDRIC RITCHIE BECOMES CEO OF THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA
AND HE BECOMES CHAIRMAN IN 1974

The early 1990s also saw a gradual transition in the top leadership at the Bank of Nova
Scotia. Cedric Ritchie, president and CEO since 1972 and chairman since 1974, handed
over the presidency to Peter Godsoe, native of Halifax and career banker at Scotiabank,
in 1992. Godsoe gained the CEO position the following year and became chairman at the
beginning of 1995.
http://www.mcb-bank.com/extra_pages/AnnualReport2005.pdf


THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA HAD ACTIVELY BEEN INVOLVED
IN THE PRECIOUS METALS MARKET SINCE 1958, AND
THROUGHOUT THE 70s THEY WERE BUYING TWO THIRDS OF
THE COUNTRIES ANNUAL PRODUCTION AND THEN SELLING
ACTUAL BULLION AND BULLION CERTIFICATES


Actively involved in the precious metals market since 1958, the bank expanded this
business throughout the 1970s by buying two-thirds of the country's annual production
and then selling actual bullion and bullion certificates. It was also during this period that
the rising expenses of branch development caused the bank to refocus its emphasis from
opening new offices within Canada to improving existing operations and relocating branches
to more lucrative areas
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin

BY THE END OF THE 1881 THEIR INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS WAS
GROWING TWICE AS FAST AS DOMESTIC OPERATIONS AND AT
A HIGHER RATE THAN THAT OF ANY OTHER CANADIAN BANK


The bank's total assets reached C$50 billion by the end of 1981, with international
business growing twice as fast as domestic operations and at a higher rate than that
of any other Canadian bank. This growth was attributed to many factors, including
the bank's established European and American presence, its expansion into the
Asia-Pacific region with the 1981 opening of branch in Japan, and the development
of a worldwide foreign exchange and banking system that operated around the clock
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin


DURING THE FIRST HALF OF THE 1980s THE BANK WAS ACCUSED
OF WRONGDOING IN A SERIES OF CASES STEMMING FROM ITS
ACTIVITIES BOTH AT HOME AND ABROAD


During the first half of the 1980s, the bank was accused of wrongdoing in a series of
cases stemming from its activities both at home and abroad. In March 1983, the bank
was asked by a Miami court to release records from its Cayman Islands branch
concerning certain customers under investigation for narcotics and tax violations.
Although the bank was protected under Cayman Island law from such releases, a
Florida judge ruled that the bank stood in contempt of court and fined it US$25,000
a day, retroactive to November 1983, for each day it did not produce the re cords
http://www. answers.com/to pic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin


IN 1984 THE BANK, ALONG WITH FOUR OTHER CANADIAN
BANKS, WAS THE SUBJECT OF A 1-YEAR INVESTIGATION
INTO DRUG DEALING AND MONEY-LAUNDERING


In 1984 the bank, along with four other Canadian banks, was the subject of a one-year
investigation by the Royal Commission of the Bahamas into drug dealing and money
laundering by Bahamian Prime Minister Pindling and his wife. Scotiabank had lent
more than C$1 million to Pindling between 1977 and 1983 and had also accepted
deposits from the couple totaling C$114,000 from an unidentified source. Although
the investigation was inconclusive, it cast a cloud on a 1985 case alleging that the bank
had committed fraud against the Investment Dealers Association of Canada in its
involvement in the failure of At lantic Securities Ltd. in 1981. Although this case
generated much controversy, the Nova Scotia County Court acquitted the bank
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin

IN ADDITION TO ACQUIRING OTHER BANKS DURING THE
LATE 1980s AND EARLY 1990s THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA
PURSUED A STRATEGY OF GLOBAL EXPANSION



In addition to acquiring other banks during the late 1980s and early 1990s, the Bank
of Nova Scotia pursued a strategy of global expansion to assure profitability regardless
of any fluctuations in individual markets. It also worked to improve the quality of the
loans in its portfolio and to increase the efficiency of its operations. Among the acquisitions
during this period was the 1988 purchase for C$419 million of the brokerage firm

McLeod Young Weir Ltd., which was later merged with Scotia Securities to form
ScotiaMcLeod. Scotiabank also acquired a 40 percent stake in Solidbank Corp. in
the Philippines in 1998 and a 24 percent stake in Banco Sud Americano, S.A., the
sixth largest bank in Chile, in 1991. Also, in 1992, in the wake of the enactment of
the North American Free Trade Agreement, Scotiabank became the first Canadian
bank to move into Mexico, spending US$75 million for a 5 percent interest in Grupo
F inanciero Inverlat, S.A. de C.V. The Bank of Nova Scotia also opened its first bank
branch in China, which it located in Guangzhou (formerly Canton).
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-nova-scotia?cat=biz-fin

The early 1990s also saw a gradual transition in the top leadership at the Bank of
Nova Scotia. Cedric Ritchie, president and CEO since 1972 and chairman since
1974, handed over the presidency to Peter Godsoe, native of Halifax and career
banker at Scotiabank, in 1992. Godsoe gained the CEO position the following year
and became chairman at the beginning of 1995.
http://www .answers.com/topic/the-bank-of-no va-scotia?cat=biz-fin

THE BANK OF NOVA SCOTIA TRUST COMPANY, OR BETTER KNOWN AS SCOTIATRUST, WAS INCORPORATED IN 1992


The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company, or better known as Scotiatrust, was incorporated
in 1992 and opened its first location in Toronto’s Scotia Plaza in June 1993. Beginning
modestly with a single office in Toronto, it has grown quickly, and has been strengthened
by the mergers of the Montreal Trust Company and the National Trust Company, to
become one of the largest personal trust businesses in Canada with a network of offices
around the world.
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID11732_LIDen,00.html

IN 1992 CEDRIC RITCHIE RELINQUISHED CONTROL OF THE
COMPANY AND PETER GODSOE TAKES OVER THE PRESIDENCY


The early 1990s also saw a gradual transition in the top leadership at the Bank of Nova
Scotia. Cedric Ritchie, president and CEO since 1972 and chairman since 1974, handed
over the presidency to Peter Godsoe, native of Halifax and career banker at Scotiabank,

PART 2
BEFORE WE GET INTO THE CARIBBEAN MERCANTILE BANK,
WE NEED TO KEEP SEVERAL THINGS IN MIND

ALL THE THINGS MICHAEL POSNER HAS DONE TO MAKE IT
EASIER/MORE COMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO ARUBA,
PRESUMABLY TO GAMBLE

1998 - Posner buys Excelsior Casino
2001 - Posner buys Bickell Bay Casino
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« Reply #369 on: February 18, 2009, 08:41:31 PM »




I think I may need to learn to knit!   


You will have to get a goat!  Kermit will help.
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« Reply #370 on: February 18, 2009, 08:42:11 PM »

Quote from: Tamikosmom on February 17, 2009, 11:25:29 AM
Lou ... please give your perspective on Kyle Kingman's own words ... would that imply John Silvetti was a participant to the Aruban coverup agenda and ... Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in the trap/cage.

Lou ... I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words and ... those words make me so angry ... so frustrated ... so sad.  If Natalee's remains were in the trap/cage ... the opportunity to bring her home to her family to rest on US soil may have been lost forever ... compliments of not only the Arubans but also ... Americans.

Janet

+++++++

THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

John Silvetti

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Fabric - Tarp - Vertibre - Skull

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:  The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle:   … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle:  I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.  Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of  vertebrae.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle:  The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle:  In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand.  Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle:  … Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew.  In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.
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« Reply #371 on: February 18, 2009, 08:43:35 PM »

REMINDER - TIM MILLER WILL BE ON DANA PRETZER TONIGHT:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

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« Reply #372 on: February 18, 2009, 08:43:49 PM »

DON'T DISPUTE - REFUTE.



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« Reply #373 on: February 18, 2009, 08:47:55 PM »

DON'T DISPUTE - REFUTE.




Kermie, I left you a  message in musings.
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« Reply #374 on: February 18, 2009, 08:48:39 PM »

Quote from: Tamikosmom on February 17, 2009, 11:25:29 AM
Lou ... please give your perspective on Kyle Kingman's own words ... would that imply John Silvetti was a participant to the Aruban coverup agenda and ... Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in the trap/cage.

Lou ... I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words and ... those words make me so angry ... so frustrated ... so sad.  If Natalee's remains were in the trap/cage ... the opportunity to bring her home to her family to rest on US soil may have been lost forever ... compliments of not only the Arubans but also ... Americans.

Janet

+++++++

THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

John Silvetti

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Fabric - Tarp - Vertibre - Skull

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle:  The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle:   … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle:  I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form.  Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of  vertebrae.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle:  The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle:  In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand.  Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle:  … Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew.  In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.


Thank you, KeeptheFaith.....I needed that.  You are very kind.
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« Reply #375 on: February 18, 2009, 08:49:18 PM »




I think I may need to learn to knit!   


You will have to get a goat!  Kermit will help.

baaa
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« Reply #376 on: February 18, 2009, 08:50:19 PM »

DON'T DISPUTE - REFUTE.




Kermie, I left you a  message in musings.

Thank you always, I'll go read it.

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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #377 on: February 18, 2009, 09:07:40 PM »

Oh sorry I wasn't quite done yet. A grown person posting pictures of cheerleaders? You have to be kidding! People post pictures of kittens, dogs, dogs with clothes on, wreaths, recipes........geesh. Cheerleaders are mild.

pencils, broken pencils, dissappearing pencils

Post and disappear.  That has it's benefits.



How many pages of wasted space, BB,  were consumed by tonight's discussion?   Not quote stacks, but grievances that should have been posted elsewhere.  jmo.  (I let it go like I did the quote stacks....equal opportunity.)
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« Reply #378 on: February 18, 2009, 09:12:58 PM »

Oh sorry I wasn't quite done yet. A grown person posting pictures of cheerleaders? You have to be kidding! People post pictures of kittens, dogs, dogs with clothes on, wreaths, recipes........geesh. Cheerleaders are mild.

pencils, broken pencils, dissappearing pencils

Post and disappear.  That has it's benefits.



How many pages of wasted space, BB,  were consumed by tonight's discussion?   Not quote stacks, but grievances that should have been posted elsewhere.  jmo.  (I let it go like I did the quote stacks....equal opportunity.)


Well,BB is safely back in GM chat now, I am sure reporting all she did here to disrupt.
How pathetic must a person be to come here and brag about how they are leading up a BAN on a member of their forum because they don't like what they posted. How small and petty is that?
Disgusting, IMO
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #379 on: February 18, 2009, 09:13:05 PM »

Headin outta the cage for a couple hrs and look forward to re-reading Kermit's post,as well as LifeSong's timeline if available.TTYL Monkey's.Sorry for being O/T...
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
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