Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18/09 - 2/21/09

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

The first post of CapsLockWizard’s posted on: (SM) January 17, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Remains were taken on January 17 sent to the FBI on January 22/24...

<snipped>

Kermit ... I believe this quote is very important but ... I cannot locate it.  I went to CAPS profile and the following post shows as his very first submission to the SM forum.  I tried googling ... thinking that it may have been a Front Page comment but ... nothing.

Could the post regarding the "remains" have been deleted upon request.

 

Janet

+++++++


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16
« Reply #316 on: January 18, 2008, 02:18:50 AM »

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329723#msg329723

[wreck]

If the Persistence had set out to search for Natalee as their sole purpose,
they would have had divers on board at all times as well as some member
of American law enforcement.

To leave themselves at the mercy of Aruban divers without even one
American diver to accompany the Arubans on the dive is just totally absurd.

If their purpose was actually to find Natalee, they would not even have notified
the Aruban authorities, knowing their history, until they had checked the site.

Silvetti was on another mission. IMO

Exactly.  It's like going fishing without a pole.

The evidence of this is more damning all the time. The more we re-examine things -- the more I am convinced. I seriously cannot fathom ANYONE actually coming away from what we have uncovered without at least having SOME doubt of the Persistence undertaking. Those that are so angry simply have not actually sat down and looked at ALL this information objectively. There are none so blind than those who refuse to open their eyes.

[Tamikosmom]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

[San]

If the Persistence had set out to search for Natalee as their sole purpose,
they would have had divers on board at all times as well as some member
of American law enforcement.

To leave themselves at the mercy of Aruban divers without even one
American diver to accompany the Arubans on the dive is just totally absurd.

If their purpose was actually to find Natalee, they would not even have notified
the Aruban authorities, knowing their history, until they had checked the site.

Silvetti was on another mission. IMO

Exactly.  It's like going fishing without a pole.

The evidence of this is more damning all the time. The more we re-examine things -- the more I am convinced. I seriously cannot fathom ANYONE actually coming away from what we have uncovered without at least having SOME doubt of the Persistence undertaking. Those that are so angry simply have not actually sat down and looked at ALL this information objectively. There are none so blind than those who refuse to open their eyes.

Why would they want to not question this persons motives.  They came on with both guns drawn and refused to answer certain questions.  Why?  Why are they covering for these people all of a sudden.  Is someone related to one of these individuals that we don't know of.

[Keepthefaith]

If the Persistence had set out to search for Natalee as their sole purpose,
they would have had divers on board at all times as well as some member
of American law enforcement.

To leave themselves at the mercy of Aruban divers without even one
American diver to accompany the Arubans on the dive is just totally absurd.

If their purpose was actually to find Natalee, they would not even have notified
the Aruban authorities, knowing their history, until they had checked the site.

Silvetti was on another mission. IMO

Exactly.  It's like going fishing without a pole.

The evidence of this is more damning all the time. The more we re-examine things -- the more I am convinced. I seriously cannot fathom ANYONE actually coming away from what we have uncovered without at least having SOME doubt of the Persistence undertaking. Those that are so angry simply have not actually sat down and looked at ALL this information objectively. There are none so blind than those who refuse to open their eyes.

Why would they want to not question this persons motives.  They came on with both guns drawn and refused to answer certain questions.  Why?  Why are they covering for these people all of a sudden.  Is someone related to one of these individuals that we don't know of.

In my personal opinion.Some of these posters are either related or work for these people!

[billb's daughter]

If the Persistence had set out to search for Natalee as their sole purpose,
they would have had divers on board at all times as well as some member
of American law enforcement.

To leave themselves at the mercy of Aruban divers without even one
American diver to accompany the Arubans on the dive is just totally absurd.

If their purpose was actually to find Natalee, they would not even have notified
the Aruban authorities, knowing their history, until they had checked the site.

Silvetti was on another mission. IMO

Exactly.  It's like going fishing without a pole.

The evidence of this is more damning all the time. The more we re-examine things -- the more I am convinced. I seriously cannot fathom ANYONE actually coming away from what we have uncovered without at least having SOME doubt of the Persistence undertaking. Those that are so angry simply have not actually sat down and looked at ALL this information objectively. There are none so blind than those who refuse to open their eyes.

Whenever news comes out that will possible explain what happened to Natalee in Aruba, I'm all eyes/ears.
Through almost 3 years, 9 months, I have tried to stay informed. I have gone down many paths, much like you all, and have applied common sense and logic to whatever theories have been floated. When the persistance search was announced, I was very hopeful that Natalee's remains would be found, and when Tim Miller exclaimed that he was 99.9% positive that Natalee was found, I was stoked....Now evidence may be collected that can lead investigator down a path to nail the perps....But even if that doesn't happen, AT LEAST Natalee can be returned to her family!
When Caps came on the scene, I felt that he was uncovering the "WHAT" may have happened to Natalee May 30th 2005....NOT the "where she was disposed' (i.e. trap discovered by persistence)...
But it didn't take long to figure out Caps was more of a distraction with the changing stories he was floating....after all, in my mind his story was only (at first) trying to expose WHAT happened, Not where she was....We knew where she was by Tim's exclamation to Dave H.
But to find out what those principles on the persistence may have done to help aruba continue the coverup is , at the very least...DISGUSTING......and I sincerely hope if there is a way to nail them for crimes against an American citizen...they are nailed! They don't have a moral bone in their bodies...I'd spit on them too!
 

[Magnolia]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

[wreck]

If the Persistence had set out to search for Natalee as their sole purpose,
they would have had divers on board at all times as well as some member
of American law enforcement.

To leave themselves at the mercy of Aruban divers without even one
American diver to accompany the Arubans on the dive is just totally absurd.

If their purpose was actually to find Natalee, they would not even have notified
the Aruban authorities, knowing their history, until they had checked the site.

Silvetti was on another mission. IMO

Exactly.  It's like going fishing without a pole.

The evidence of this is more damning all the time. The more we re-examine things -- the more I am convinced. I seriously cannot fathom ANYONE actually coming away from what we have uncovered without at least having SOME doubt of the Persistence undertaking. Those that are so angry simply have not actually sat down and looked at ALL this information objectively. There are none so blind than those who refuse to open their eyes.

Whenever news comes out that will possible explain what happened to Natalee in Aruba, I'm all eyes/ears.
Through almost 3 years, 9 months, I have tried to stay informed. I have gone down many paths, much like you all, and have applied common sense and logic to whatever theories have been floated. When the persistance search was announced, I was very hopeful that Natalee's remains would be found, and when Tim Miller exclaimed that he was 99.9% positive that Natalee was found, I was stoked....Now evidence may be collected that can lead investigator down a path to nail the perps....But even if that doesn't happen, AT LEAST Natalee can be returned to her family!
When Caps came on the scene, I felt that he was uncovering the "WHAT" may have happened to Natalee May 30th 2005....NOT the "where she was disposed' (i.e. trap discovered by persistence)...
But it didn't take long to figure out Caps was more of a distraction with the changing stories he was floating....after all, in my mind his story was only (at first) trying to expose WHAT happened, Not where she was....We knew where she was by Tim's exclamation to Dave H.
But to find out what those principles on the persistence may have done to help aruba continue the coverup is , at the very least...DISGUSTING......and I sincerely hope if there is a way to nail them for crimes against an American citizen...they are nailed! They don't have a moral bone in their bodies...I'd spit on them too!
 

Well said!

[snoopy]

You all are so amazing.  I can't tell you how nice it is to come here after a  horrible day and read such intelligent work.  Well except the one driveby. lol  Oh well.

Just wanted you all to know that your work is not in vain.  It is greatly appreciated.  And don't be intimidated.  They would love to silence you.  Don't let them.  You are doing nothing wrong.  Everything that has been discussed here has not recieved one single intelligent rebuttal.  That says a lot IMO, and Kyle Kingmans own words should be easy enough to understand if people will just simply take the time to read it all.

I stand with the monkeys
I stand with the Freebirds
I stand with the girl

Do not be disheartened
Do not be discouraged

Rock On!!  

 

[Lifesong]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

[texasmom]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Thanks Lifesong!   

[klaasend]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Excellent!  Thank you Lifesong!

[billb's daughter]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

In all ports ship captains usually yield to a local Captain (called a Pilot) that is certified as an expert in the local waters. The Pilot meets the ship just outside the harbor and then commands the ship to its berth. If Eduardo is a certified Pilot for aruba waters, it would make sense that he was onboard. That also has implications insurance wise if something happened to the ship without a Pilot in command. 

[Keepthefaith]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Thanx LifeSong.

[Tamikosmom]

You all are so amazing.  I can't tell you how nice it is to come here after a  horrible day and read such intelligent work.  Well except the one driveby. lol  Oh well.

Just wanted you all to know that your work is not in vain.  It is greatly appreciated.  And don't be intimidated.  They would love to silence you.  Don't let them.  You are doing nothing wrong.  Everything that has been discussed here has not recieved one single intelligent rebuttal.  That says a lot IMO, and Kyle Kingmans own words should be easy enough to understand if people will just simply take the time to read it all.

I stand with the monkeys
I stand with the Freebirds
I stand with the girl

Do not be disheartened
Do not be discouraged

Rock On!!  

 

Hey Snoopy ... how is "Snoopy" doing.

BTW ... have you been star gazing lately.  Just remember not to share with that hubby of yours any of your strange observations.  Keep in mind that meeting with he may call with the grown kids regarding that "home" discussion.

 

Snoopy ... I think I will remember that star gazing post of yours for a long time.  I laughed so hard.

Janet

[Magnolia]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Lifesong, I have used your timeline several times today and it has been most helpful.
I love it!!!

[SuzieQ]

You all are so amazing.  I can't tell you how nice it is to come here after a  horrible day and read such intelligent work.  Well except the one driveby. lol  Oh well.

Just wanted you all to know that your work is not in vain.  It is greatly appreciated.  And don't be intimidated.  They would love to silence you.  Don't let them.  You are doing nothing wrong.  Everything that has been discussed here has not recieved one single intelligent rebuttal.  That says a lot IMO, and Kyle Kingmans own words should be easy enough to understand if people will just simply take the time to read it all.

I stand with the monkeys
I stand with the Freebirds
I stand with the girl

Do not be disheartened
Do not be discouraged

Rock On!!  

 

Post of the day.

[Magnolia]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that the legal happenings encompassing the Mansur family which  coincided with the Persistence undertaking, could Jossy have negotiated an incentive with the Aruban “powers that be” which would imply a betrayal of trust in how it relates to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Could Jossy have negotiated an incentive  with the Aruban “powers that be” that would involve the participation of his own son, Eduardo?

What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.  His name was Kyle Kingman.
________

Kyle Kingman
We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Jossy Mansur
No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Janet, I think (and I could be totally wrong) that Eduardo was on board because he knew the waters
around Aruba.  Anytime a ship is in unknown waters it is helpful to have a local on board that is very
familiar with the depths and currents of the waters.
I honestly think that he was trying to be helpful to the "search effort"
I just can't throw Jossy and Eduardo under the bus yet.

In all ports ship captains usually yield to a local Captain (called a Pilot) that is certified as an expert in the local waters. The Pilot meets the ship just outside the harbor and then commands the ship to its berth. If Eduardo is a certified Pilot for aruba waters, it would make sense that he was onboard. That also has implications insurance wise if something happened to the ship without a Pilot in command. 

Thanks, Billb.  I didn't know that.  I know that in Key West during the Offshore Powerboat Races each
crew would recruit a local to ride along for the race to help navigate the waters.

[Tamikosmom]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

WOW!!!

Lifesong ... you are on a roll.

Janet

[billb's daughter]

Update 1 to the timeline has been posted here.

Backup links are all now inserted on the original items, corrections have been made, and a few new items have been added so far.  Much to do... 

Lifesong...This is EXCELLENT!
I noticed Red's comment, but I didn't see him credited (I'm sure that wasn't your intent - just wanted to point it out)
I will just come out and say it only because I am shocked at the quick pace of the termination of the search.  WHO THE HELL WAITS UNTIL LAST MINUTE TO ASK FOR HELP IN DONATIONS ONLY TO ONE DAY LATER LEAVE ANYHOW!!!  You could have least given it a chance.  I am sorry, but that makes no sense coming from a business man like Louis Schafer. Long ago he could have contacted SM and done a media blitz that would have donated funds. Also, people of major means could have been asked.  However, for the most part this type of money is not gained thru public solicitation ... its gained thru millionaires private Rolodex.
I hope there is another more positive reason.”