Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18/09 - 2/21/09

[texasmom]

This is the only source I can find of Mos' statement:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg355812#msg355812

Posted by vms

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #381 on: February 26, 2008, 03:55:44 PM »

MF Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:54 pm     

Press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba
Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

T ++ (297) 521 4100
F ++ (297) 521 4190


To All media

From The Public Prosecutor’s Office


Date February 26, 2007

Pages 1

Cloth found in crab trap not a match with sample of blouse Holloway, according to FBI Laboratory.

The Prosecutors’ Office of Aruba has received the results of the comparison tests done by the FBI Laboratory in the United States of America on clothing, cloth or a textile of some type recovered in January 2008 by an Aruban dive team inside a crab trap in about 90 feet of water, off the coast of Aruba. The Aruban dive team was directed to the crab trap by the crew of the vessel “Persistence” that is conducting a sea search looking for the body of Natalee Holloway. The Persistence is searching for a crab trap based on the story that the body of Natalee Holloway was disposed of and placed in a similar device.

The Aruban Police requested the FBI Laboratory to process the cloth, because the Laboratory already had a sample of the exact match of the type of material of Natalee Holloway’s blouse. The FBI Laboratory received that material on the 22nd of January 2008.

On the 25th of February 2008, the Prosecutors’ Office received the official report from the FBI Laboratory that showed that the two materials were not a match.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367044#msg367044

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #363 on: March 19, 2008, 10:36:39 PM »

oceanexploration posted"

snip:

I'll do the best I can...
- The samples were recovered by Aruban divers on the 7th of Jan.  These samples include a fabric found inside the trap which was sent for a comparative analysis to the FBI.  However, the samples were also reportedly DNA tested. I heard there were remains from a source, who likely referred to DNA as remains, as he said there was DNA found.  However, it's rather ambiguous to me, but the take home message from the FBI is simply: they're not commenting on the case and the fabric wasn't Natalee's blouse.  I'm unaware of any bone found.
Hope that helps some. 

 


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366443#msg366443

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #842 on: March 18, 2008, 08:51:55 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SNIPPING a quote from Janet:
Also the dive was on December 30, 2007.  Why did Aruba not immediately send the fabric to the FBI for forensic testing?  Why did Aruba wait unti January 22, 2008?
----------

- We were told by Richardson that he personally immediately sent the samples to the FBI for forensic analysis.
- I was suprised to hear the Jan-22nd date.  To me there are two weeks missing there.

[Tamikosmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2438.140

oceanexploration
Scared Monkey

 Offline

Posts: 224



   Re: Ocean Search - Aruba - December 2007
« Reply #149 on: February 25, 2008, 09:02:42 AM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion...

If God wills it... Natalee's remains will be found in the manner and timing that God wills it to happen.  Mark my words. That timing will be divinely perfect. From my experience, this generally happens in a manner that defies logic, is beyond chance, and confounds the ways of the wise with the actions of the weak. After it's complete, anyone who looks at the details will be left with no other explanation that there is a loving, caring, omniscient God behind it all.  By the works one knows the worksman.

During the process we are presented with two major challenges: 1) to look beyond all the garbage to see God's hand working in the situation as it unfolds, step by step.  By garbage, I mean the temptation to take full control over the situation, distractions from both well-intended people and opportunists, and discouragement.
2) Stay the course.  His course.  I believe if we overcome these challenges, we will be successful by God's view of success.  Hopefully in this case, His view of success overlaps with ours.  We'll see.
  

texasmom ... Kyle Kingman's faith in God is revealed in several of his posts to the SM Site as well as the Persistence log.  I have hopes that Kyle's faith will be the catalyst which will cause him to sincerely repent of his wrongdoing and ... reveal the truth to the FBI regarding the deception encompassing the Persistence undertaking.

For a period in time my eldest son took a selfish direction in his life that did not honor the God Who he had made a open profession to follow.  In time he bowed and ... returned to foundation he had abandoned.

Initially Kyle Kingman was very troubled concerning what he observed in regards to the recovery process.  I truly believe that Kyle felt force into an intiminated silence by John Silvetti.

It appears that sending the ROV images to the FBI and ... requesting the Natalee's Freebirds to assist in exposing the John Silvetti deception to the FBI/Beth Holloway through a document ... Kyle Kingman was attempting to do what was right.  He was taking the high road.

However ... at some point in time he began to backtrack.  Could it have been a threatened lawsuit but Silvetti/Schaefer?  Could it have been those Network deals?  Could it have been incentives were offered in regards to furthering his career with John Silvetti?

Proverbs 22:1
A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches.

Matthew 16:26
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle:   I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I came across this earlier, and wanted to bring it forward to see what you think OE is actually saying in his response following our Peaches' and Janet's exchange.  (There may have been responses then, but I searched based on text I recalled)

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

[texasmom]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

[klaasend]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

I really felt that the cemetary would have been the easiest and best way to dispose of a body in Aruba next to the ocean.

[Tamikosmom]

This is maddening!

12/21/2007 – NEW
CapslockWizard’s post (Comment #14 – 5:30pm) on SM Front Page that Natalee is in a cemetery.;  NOTE:  This comment is posted on The Dana Prezter Show’s page for the 12/20/2007 broadcast that featured Jug Twitty. 

01/27/2008– NEW
On: January 27, 2008, 10:51:39 AM Caps posts:  "need to know 2 things Did Natalee travel somewhere before he come to Aruba and and the parents tree   Natalee is the doughter of  -----  and --------- etc.  I know that probably Dave Holloway has notting to do with this Case but the Twitty  Wat is twitty to natalee?


Dude! 
You freakin' commented on the page of the show on which Jug Twitty was interviewed! 
Are you serious??!!

(Sigh.) 

 

Lifesong ... you are good!!!

Janet

[Lifesong]

<snipped>

The first post of CapsLockWizard’s posted on: (SM) January 17, 2008, 10:18:50 PM
Remains were taken on January 17 sent to the FBI on January 22/24...

<snipped>

Kermit ... I believe this quote is very important but ... I cannot locate it.  I went to CAPS profile and the following post shows as his very first submission to the SM forum.  I tried googling ... thinking that it may have been a Front Page comment but ... nothing.

Could the post regarding the "remains" have been deleted upon request.

 

Janet

+++++++


CapsLockWizard
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #713 1/16
« Reply #316 on: January 18, 2008, 02:18:50 AM »

Klaas, I believe you have left out some important ones.

Pride:

Their excessive belief in their own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. ( they have not been Recognised by the Holloway's)

Envy:
Their desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. (Beth $16000.00 open bill in Aruba while they have to pay for them self. otherwise they would not bring it out)

Gluttony:
Their inordinate desire to consume and drink more than that which one requires. (Lets go To Aruba, Talk Some $hit and see if we can be Comp by the hotel for a short fame while drinking and eating.

Lust:
There is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. (see how much Tattoo they have)

Anger
This is manifested in the individual who spurns love (lies of loving) and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. They say they are anger that the Holloway's have build this case on a foundation of lies. by at the same time lets enjoy the the rest of the seven sins.

Greed:
this is their desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. (they said that they can read and work with the spirit, another BS) It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. ( They said that they not doing it for money, but I bet you that the seven sins tells you different)

Sloth:
is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work. (if they were so spiritual, they would have solve the case a long time ago) even the FBI do not believe in them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2527.msg329723#msg329723

Janet,
I don't believe that the sentence about the remains is intended to be a quote from caps.

I believe the intent of the two statements, is the timing of the remains being collected, and Caps beginning to post on the SM forum.  

However, I thought the remains were collected on January 7th, not the 17th.


Still interesting timing.  imo

Hi texasmom.

An original source would be appreciated nevertheless.  Maybe Kermit can help tomorrow.

Edit typo

Janet

I believe that Kermit got the quote from Lifesong's timeline.

   Actually, I lifted it from Kermit's timeline here: 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597#msg679597

[texasmom]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

In defense of myself, that last one; along with some things said in private chat...the doubt set in.

Took long enough, huh!   

[wreck]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

It is easy and natural to hop on the bandwagon -- but you are self-thinking and reasonable enough to look at the big picture and come to your own conclusions! Apparently there were some here who lacked that trait!

[Magnolia]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

TM, I must admit that sometimes I believed Caps and then again I would see the conflict in what he
posted.
At least we can admit the folly.  I think that is the problem with some of the others; they can't
admit that they were wrong.

[Tamikosmom]

I came across this earlier, and wanted to bring it forward to see what you think OE is actually saying in his response following our Peaches' and Janet's exchange.  (There may have been responses then, but I searched based on text I recalled)

"Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist on board the R/V Persistence. Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification and location. I will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target after I pick and analyse each sonar target."

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Hardly a cabin boy.

I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle is very qualified in his profession ... I do not doubt for one minute that Kyle motives in locating the remains of Natalee Hollway were very sincere.

However ... somewhere along the way Kyle was influenced to believe that those within the Aruban investigation were the "good guys" and ... the media which was the sole reason that the Natalee Holloway case did not become a faded memory was the "bad guy".

The following post spoke volumes to me in regards to Kyle naïveté in regards to the dynamics encompassing the "powers that be" in the Aruban investigation who have been behind the coverup which has been denying Natalee Holloway justice.

I cannot comprehend that Kyle would have posted the following words if he had done his homework.  If only he had read Dave Holloway's ... Corruption in Paradise or ... Beth Holloway's ... Loving Natalee.

In November, 2005 ... Dave Holloway conceded that his cooperation with the enemy had not worked.  Dave learned that his goal for justice to prevail for his precious daughter did not reflect ... the Aruban goal to distance Joran and Paulus from implication.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
November 17, 2005

HOLLOWAY: ... I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html


Dave Holloway
On the Record w/ Greta
April 11, 2006

HOLLOWAY: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html

I have done my homework. Not all that I posted is geared journalistically.  Some things I had written were specifically geared to send a message.  At times, this message was for only a few people.  This post at SM "praising Aruban authorities" was done with contextual purpose. Eveything I write ends up being read by people who are extremely interested and close to the case.  In context, we (the search team) needed to rapidly gain the trust and cooperation of the Aruban authorities.  Before we arrived, here was no trust, little cooperation, and no sharing of information. Take this for what it's worth:  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Also, don't make assumptions about what I have or have not read.

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

2NJSons_Mom

At this period in time ... Kyle Kingman is attempting damage control.  That last sentence is complete nonsense.

IMO

Janet

[snoopy]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

Don't be disheartened texasmom.  Many of us worried daily about his safety, and wanted to believe him.  And did believe him for a while.  My "hinky" meter went off sometime last summer.  I remember talking to SunnyinTX about it one day that something just wasn't right about the whole situation.

Janet...Proverbs 22:1 is one of my favorite verses.  So much so that I placed it on my daddys headstone 10 years ago.  I have quoted it many times, and was my sig line for a long time.  If you don't have a good name then you have nothing.  Daddy always said "No matter what our name is not for sale.  Don't ever forget that snoopy".

[texasmom]

Just look how Caps' stories changed every few weeks! The same "Shango" group adapted to each of these "stories" right along with him. Remember how everyone was on the cemetary kick, then all of a sudden, she was in the pond?? Then Caps tells us Natalee was "cut up" and disributed to every pssible theorized place on the island AND the sea!!! 

Did you have to remind me?????  I was right along with 'em!  

 

TM, I must admit that sometimes I believed Caps and then again I would see the conflict in what he
posted.
At least we can admit the folly.  I think that is the problem with some of the others; they can't
admit that they were wrong.

I agree.

[snoopy]

Oh my goodness.  It must really be getting late.  I just did a snicker snicker snort snort. lol  Daddy didn't say snoopy ya'll.  It was usually blondie or skookims.  Never quite knew what skookims meant. lol .  Musta been a term of endearment.

Good night ya'll.  Keep up the good work.

Justice for Natalee.

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
9:25 PM PT

[texasmom]

Oh my goodness.  It must really be getting late.  I just did a snicker snicker snort snort. lol  Daddy didn't say snoopy ya'll.  It was usually blondie or skookims.  Never quite knew what skookims meant. lol .  Musta been a term of endearment.

Good night ya'll.  Keep up the good work.

Justice for Natalee.

Thanks for your kindness, and goodnight Snoopy! 

[texasmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
9:25 PM PT

Goodnight Janet, and hugs..and more hugs...

[Magnolia]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
9:25 PM PT

Good Night, Janet.

[Tamikosmom]

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet
9:25 PM PT

Goodnight Janet, and hugs..and more hugs...

oooooo ... I feel all hinky.

 

Hugs to you too texasmom.

Janet

[snoopy]

Please keep Blonde and her mom in your prayers.