Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18/09 - 2/21/09

[Tamikosmom]

From Kyle's Post above..... Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others...

I thought ALE took the samples...I did not know that the Persistence Crew Supervised the sampling of the Trap...... And I wonder just how many videos were made of the trap....

Who did they supervise specifically?Inquiring minds want to know.

Kyle Kingman conceded one month later in a SM post that only the Arubans were involved in the chain of custody.  It there was a sampling ... it must have occured following the December 30th thumbs down dive but prior to the January 7th recovery dive.

Janet

____


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

John Silvetti

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.
 
Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.
 
Kyle:  They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

Janet, you aren't even a bad dream, let alone a nightmare.  We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.    The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.200

[Magnolia]

I believe that CAPS came on the scene in January to divert attention away from the contents of the trap/cage.  However ... I do not adhere to the theory of the planting of evidence.

Think about it.  If the "powers that be" had any intentions of confirming the death of Natalee Holloway and returning her remains to the family ... WHY WAS THE TRUTH REGARDING THE CONTENTS OF THE CAGE/TRAP COVERED UP?  John Silvetti/ Louis Schaefer would have emerged as heros and ... the Persistence undertaking would have been declared a success.

What am I missing?

 

Janet
 

I have thought about this many times and I thought at one time that ALE took
the contents of the trap/cage and at that time had intentions of returning Natalee
to her family. 
The Persistnce/Aruba could not let it be known that they had found her
remains because they wanted to continue to map the ocean, so nothing could be said
until the map/grid was completed.
Caps was sent in to set up another location as a possible place where Natalee's remains
could be found.  I think at that point they had intentions of placing Natalee's body in a
new location where it could be claimed by the family.
Then Robin posted the pictures of the inside of the trap at BNH and their plan was foiled
because the skull was visible on the photos.
I don't contend that any of this is true......just something I figured made sense.

Thank you for asking that, Janet. 

Magnolia - That makes so much sense, thank you!

Wreck also helped me understand that Silvetti may have been continuing with the plan anyway to try clear the Persistence...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4515.msg670251#msg670251

Lifesong:
Excellent.  But, why? 
As it relates to the crimes against Natalee, who is protected by remains being in the pond and not in the cage.  Who is incriminated?
And why the change of heart in allowing any of her to be found?
I'm still not getting it, and it's frustrating.

Wreck:
1) The only one really "protected" is the Persistence. Why? Because they could not admit their "search" for Natalee was a fraud. They still were trying to pin the crime on Joran.

2) Change of heart? No not really -- something however foiled their plan to make it appear that Natalee was found in the pond. (What that was -- I don't know)

Lifesong:
Thanks, Wreck.  Of course, Silvetti had to cover the Persistence to resolve being on the outs with Schaefer. 

It could be that only the shoe was to be planted in the pond.

I'll be the first to admit it's still all sketchy to me, which is why I'm still interested in digging the truth out.

Lifesong

Think about it.  The ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI ... the ROV images that the FBI gave to Dave Holloway ... the ROV images that Robin posted on a private site ... the ROV images that Klaas posted on the SM forum ... must fit into the equation.

I tend to believe that the Arubans/John Silvetti were unaware that Kyle Kingman had sent the ROV images from the December 29, 2007 dive to the FBI.  This implies the finale to the great Aruban coverup was thwarped prior to the January 7, 2008 recovery process.

I could be wrong but ... I believe that the Arubans and John Silvetti became aware of the ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI and ... CAPS was delegated as a distraction to take the focus off the cage/trap in the hopes that the ROV images would become a non-issue.
 
However ... Robin Holloway's exposure of the ROV images on BNH in February, 2008 and ... Klaas' exposure of the ROV images on SM ... implied the ROV images were to become an issue to be reckoned with.  This is when the Silvetti/Mansur/CAPS connection that encompassed "the pond witness" came about.

IMO

Janet

+++++

DECEMBER 29, 2007 - ROV IMAGES

klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #592 on: February 27, 2008, 03:09:38 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg356063#msg356063


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #525 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357200;topicseen#msg357200


exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

I have always wondered if Kyle sent those images to the FBI without Silvetti's knowlege.
When they were posted by Robin, it was a big surprise to Silvetti and company and they
knew their goose was cooked.
I think that is why Kyle was so furious with Klaas and Red.

[johan555]

I found it somewere
What is there wrong with a old pic ?
We use only new pics here ?

Nothing at all wrong with an old picture.  When it's posted with no explanation the assumption is that the poster thinks it's a new photo.  I just wanted to make sure YOU and OTHERS knew it was not new.

I spent a great deal of time researching the SamSam club in Thailand looking of pics so I remember this one well.

ha ha i did also but i coudn't find that club sam sam

[Tamikosmom]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

[jen3560]

Hi Janet-

Is that a direct quote from Jug in your post? I am not doubting you, I just wanted to be sure of the origin. Was that from a posted email or a poster?

TIA !!!

Not Janet, but that quote came from an email from lalas to an unnamed poster.
The unnamed poster forwarded it to Kermit.  Several here know who the unnamed
poster is, but I do not.

That's correct - an email from Lala's to LEAK

[Magnolia]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet-

Is that a direct quote from Jug in your post? I am not doubting you, I just wanted to be sure of the origin. Was that from a posted email or a poster?

TIA !!!

Not Janet, but that quote came from an email from lalas to an unnamed poster.
The unnamed poster forwarded it to Kermit.  Several here know who the unnamed
poster is, but I do not.

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #800 2/11/09 -
« Reply #773 on: February 17, 2009, 05:50:50 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4515.msg676738;topicseen#msg676738

[hotping]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

See Magnolia's post above! 

[Tamikosmom]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

I NEVER say "Surprise me" so I would not know.

 

Janet

[Lifesong]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

   

      

[hotping]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

 

[hotping]

I believe that CAPS came on the scene in January to divert attention away from the contents of the trap/cage.  However ... I do not adhere to the theory of the planting of evidence.

Think about it.  If the "powers that be" had any intentions of confirming the death of Natalee Holloway and returning her remains to the family ... WHY WAS THE TRUTH REGARDING THE CONTENTS OF THE CAGE/TRAP COVERED UP?  John Silvetti/ Louis Schaefer would have emerged as heros and ... the Persistence undertaking would have been declared a success.

What am I missing?

 

Janet
 

I have thought about this many times and I thought at one time that ALE took
the contents of the trap/cage and at that time had intentions of returning Natalee
to her family. 
The Persistnce/Aruba could not let it be known that they had found her
remains because they wanted to continue to map the ocean, so nothing could be said
until the map/grid was completed.
Caps was sent in to set up another location as a possible place where Natalee's remains
could be found.  I think at that point they had intentions of placing Natalee's body in a
new location where it could be claimed by the family.
Then Robin posted the pictures of the inside of the trap at BNH and their plan was foiled
because the skull was visible on the photos.
I don't contend that any of this is true......just something I figured made sense.

Thank you for asking that, Janet. 

Magnolia - That makes so much sense, thank you!

Wreck also helped me understand that Silvetti may have been continuing with the plan anyway to try clear the Persistence...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4515.msg670251#msg670251

Lifesong:
Excellent.  But, why? 
As it relates to the crimes against Natalee, who is protected by remains being in the pond and not in the cage.  Who is incriminated?
And why the change of heart in allowing any of her to be found?
I'm still not getting it, and it's frustrating.

Wreck:
1) The only one really "protected" is the Persistence. Why? Because they could not admit their "search" for Natalee was a fraud. They still were trying to pin the crime on Joran.

2) Change of heart? No not really -- something however foiled their plan to make it appear that Natalee was found in the pond. (What that was -- I don't know)

Lifesong:
Thanks, Wreck.  Of course, Silvetti had to cover the Persistence to resolve being on the outs with Schaefer. 

It could be that only the shoe was to be planted in the pond.

I'll be the first to admit it's still all sketchy to me, which is why I'm still interested in digging the truth out.

Lifesong

Think about it.  The ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI ... the ROV images that the FBI gave to Dave Holloway ... the ROV images that Robin posted on a private site ... the ROV images that Klaas posted on the SM forum ... must fit into the equation.

I tend to believe that the Arubans/John Silvetti were unaware that Kyle Kingman had sent the ROV images from the December 29, 2007 dive to the FBI.  This implies the finale to the great Aruban coverup was thwarped prior to the January 7, 2008 recovery process.

I could be wrong but ... I believe that the Arubans and John Silvetti became aware of the ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI and ... CAPS was delegated as a distraction to take the focus off the cage/trap in the hopes that the ROV images would become a non-issue.
 
However ... Robin Holloway's exposure of the ROV images on BNH in February, 2008 and ... Klaas' exposure of the ROV images on SM ... implied the ROV images were to become an issue to be reckoned with.  This is when the Silvetti/Mansur/CAPS connection that encompassed "the pond witness" came about.

IMO

Janet

+++++

DECEMBER 29, 2007 - ROV IMAGES

klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #592 on: February 27, 2008, 03:09:38 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg356063#msg356063


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #525 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357200;topicseen#msg357200


exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

I have always wondered if Kyle sent those images to the FBI without Silvetti's knowlege.
When they were posted by Robin, it was a big surprise to Silvetti and company and they
knew their goose was cooked.
I think that is why Kyle was so furious with Klaas and Red.

But is the Goose Cooked? 

[Keepthefaith]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

 

Lord have Mercy.You Monkey's and Ying Yangs...

[hotping]

I'm beginning more and more to believe that Natalee's remains were in that trap.....that's why Mos has this Holier Than Thou attitude now...He thinks that He has the case by the ying yang and We will just go away......Boy is He wrong.....

hotping ... I am afraid to ask but ... I will take a risk.  What is a "ying yang?

 

Janet

It is what you get for breakfast when you say: 'Surprise me.'

 

Lord have Mercy.You Monkey's and Ying Yangs...

Please forgive Me for using the YY words....I didn't mean to get Us off topic!   

[Tamikosmom]

I have always wondered if Kyle sent those images to the FBI without Silvetti's knowlege.
When they were posted by Robin, it was a big surprise to Silvetti and company and they
knew their goose was cooked.
I think that is why Kyle was so furious with Klaas and Red.

But is the Goose Cooked? 

SCARED MONKEY - KLAAS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #525 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357200;topicseen#msg357200


SCARED MONKEY - RED

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

CORRESPONDENCE WITH KYLE ABOUT RED
From Kyle: march 18, 2008:
If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.
~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

[Magnolia]

I believe that CAPS came on the scene in January to divert attention away from the contents of the trap/cage.  However ... I do not adhere to the theory of the planting of evidence.

Think about it.  If the "powers that be" had any intentions of confirming the death of Natalee Holloway and returning her remains to the family ... WHY WAS THE TRUTH REGARDING THE CONTENTS OF THE CAGE/TRAP COVERED UP?  John Silvetti/ Louis Schaefer would have emerged as heros and ... the Persistence undertaking would have been declared a success.

What am I missing?

 

Janet
 

I have thought about this many times and I thought at one time that ALE took
the contents of the trap/cage and at that time had intentions of returning Natalee
to her family. 
The Persistnce/Aruba could not let it be known that they had found her
remains because they wanted to continue to map the ocean, so nothing could be said
until the map/grid was completed.
Caps was sent in to set up another location as a possible place where Natalee's remains
could be found.  I think at that point they had intentions of placing Natalee's body in a
new location where it could be claimed by the family.
Then Robin posted the pictures of the inside of the trap at BNH and their plan was foiled
because the skull was visible on the photos.
I don't contend that any of this is true......just something I figured made sense.

Thank you for asking that, Janet. 

Magnolia - That makes so much sense, thank you!

Wreck also helped me understand that Silvetti may have been continuing with the plan anyway to try clear the Persistence...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4515.msg670251#msg670251

Lifesong:
Excellent.  But, why? 
As it relates to the crimes against Natalee, who is protected by remains being in the pond and not in the cage.  Who is incriminated?
And why the change of heart in allowing any of her to be found?
I'm still not getting it, and it's frustrating.

Wreck:
1) The only one really "protected" is the Persistence. Why? Because they could not admit their "search" for Natalee was a fraud. They still were trying to pin the crime on Joran.

2) Change of heart? No not really -- something however foiled their plan to make it appear that Natalee was found in the pond. (What that was -- I don't know)

Lifesong:
Thanks, Wreck.  Of course, Silvetti had to cover the Persistence to resolve being on the outs with Schaefer. 

It could be that only the shoe was to be planted in the pond.

I'll be the first to admit it's still all sketchy to me, which is why I'm still interested in digging the truth out.

Lifesong

Think about it.  The ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI ... the ROV images that the FBI gave to Dave Holloway ... the ROV images that Robin posted on a private site ... the ROV images that Klaas posted on the SM forum ... must fit into the equation.

I tend to believe that the Arubans/John Silvetti were unaware that Kyle Kingman had sent the ROV images from the December 29, 2007 dive to the FBI.  This implies the finale to the great Aruban coverup was thwarped prior to the January 7, 2008 recovery process.

I could be wrong but ... I believe that the Arubans and John Silvetti became aware of the ROV images that Kyle sent to the FBI and ... CAPS was delegated as a distraction to take the focus off the cage/trap in the hopes that the ROV images would become a non-issue.
 
However ... Robin Holloway's exposure of the ROV images on BNH in February, 2008 and ... Klaas' exposure of the ROV images on SM ... implied the ROV images were to become an issue to be reckoned with.  This is when the Silvetti/Mansur/CAPS connection that encompassed "the pond witness" came about.

IMO

Janet

+++++

DECEMBER 29, 2007 - ROV IMAGES

klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #592 on: February 27, 2008, 03:09:38 AM »
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg356063#msg356063


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 -
« Reply #525 on: February 29, 2008, 02:58:40 AM »

I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

You are not helping anything by interfering with what you do not fully understand.  Please let the authorities do their jobs without interference.   

Robin should never have posted those pics because of the stir they would cause.  She trusted (mistakenly) people's ethics on a private forum.  One of the reasons (among many) that this case has taken so long to solve is because of the Internet, media, and well intended partially-informed people's ambitions and agendas.  Stay out of business you don't belong in.  You all know I am an ally both in the field and on the net.  I have done my best to both bring success to this case and to keep people informed and updated with what information should be provided.  We the search team have worked extremely hard over a long time.  Many of you have as well.  Let's not let our frustrations get the best of us.  Let us not let our emotions interfere with what we know to be true, and let us not forget who we are and what jobs we have to do.  Let those who are responsible do their jobs.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2654.msg357200;topicseen#msg357200


exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

I have always wondered if Kyle sent those images to the FBI without Silvetti's knowlege.
When they were posted by Robin, it was a big surprise to Silvetti and company and they
knew their goose was cooked.
I think that is why Kyle was so furious with Klaas and Red.

But is the Goose Cooked? 

Well, I guess I should have said....their plan was ruined.
I do wonder what they did with the remains that were found.
I think they are still in the Aruban morgue.
I also wonder if the new talk of another search has to do with those remains.

[Keepthefaith]

John Silvetti being anywhere near the remains "IF" found would cook his GOOSE in my opinion..

[Tamikosmom]

Well ... I am off for the rest of the day.  Hubby and I are making the 45 minute drive out to Richmond (near Vancouver International) to visit with his sister and BIL and ... then going to dinner at friends who reside close by.

We are leaving shortly so not to get caught up in that rush hour traffic commute.

Take care and God Bless.

Janet
2:05 PM PT

[Keepthefaith]

Well ... I am off for the rest of the day.  Hubby and I are making the 45 minute drive out to Richmond (near Vancouver International) to visit with his sister and BIL and ... then going to dinner at friends who reside close by.

We are leaving shortly so not to get caught up in that rush hour traffic commute.

Take care and God Bless.

Janet
2:05 PM PT

Have a wonderful evening Janet!

[Magnolia]

Well ... I am off for the rest of the day.  Hubby and I are making the 45 minute drive out to Richmond (near Vancouver International) to visit with his sister and BIL and ... then going to dinner at friends who reside close by.

We are leaving shortly so not to get caught up in that rush hour traffic commute.

Take care and God Bless.

Janet
2:05 PM PT

You are taking a lot of liberties with your forum duties lately. 
Ask Hubby to surprise you!  He'll love it!