Caylee Marie Anthony #107 2/17/09 - 2/19/09

[pharlap]

It was mentioned tonight on NG that the child dev. book that Casey had in her room, had sections marked on 'temper tantrums'.  That's one thing we haven't heard much about, if Caylee had tantrums or not.  Most 2 yr olds do, at one time or another. 

My question is.. Did Caylee have those bad enough to cause Casey to look in the book for ways to deal with them?  And if so, did Caylee have a tantrum just prior to her death?  We've thought for quite some time now that Caylee may have been yelling and screaming, crying for Cindy and that may have flipped Casey out. 

A tantrum doing that, just after a fight between Casey and Cindy, could very likely be something that set Casey off and Caylee paid the price.   

I think that was definitely a possibility. IMO I think that Cindy and Casey were probably arguing that night and they both made their own threats towards each other and probably argued about who did what for Caylee that sort of thing, I think that it probably made Caylee upset them arguing and Casey stormed out of the house and Caylee probably did not want to go with her and was crying for Cindy like you said. Casey was probably thinking that this was the final straw and she would show them. IDK just my opinion.

JMO....think casey had the tantrum.....

[Cappuccino]

I believe if they can not discredit the forensics (science) they will go with accidental overdose.. Caylee was throwing a tantrum and completely out of control,KC tried to sedate her and accidentally administered a fatal dose. 

Des, I thought chloroform was colorless?? IIRC it said there was white sediment in the bottle as well as a syringe.. That is why I think they will try to claim accidental overdose.. *IF* they have to admit she killed her. That is jmo though and I am not half as smart as you other monkeys.

Sweetie, I'm gonna give ya an answer but also address a few other things in this post because I left earlier today with a continuing migraine & needed to step away for a bit.   Legally there is no such thing as an "accidental overdose" when using a drug or toxic substance on a minor child, that is an aggravated assault upon a minor & if a death occurs in the commission of that act it is murder - why because everyone (inc young teens & adults) knows that any type of drug or toxic substance CAN CAUSE SERIOUS BODILY HARM OR BE DEATH which is why we have warning labels printed with over the counter or any prescription you get or when looking it up online even (i.e. chloroform) such as these links
http://www.sci-spot.com/chemistry/chloroform.htm
http://blog.4rev.net/2008-10/how-to-make-chloroform-trichloromethane/     There are probably a ton more
As well as there is absolutely NO excusable reason to drug a child outside of illness which would require a normal recommended dose of children's over the counter medication such as for a cold OR if a child is ill requiring a doctor's visit wherein a prescription with instructions for specific administration are given.    There is absolutely NO excuse for a parent to use a drug or substance to quiet a child or put them to bed just so the parent gets relief, reading a book or finding an activity to do until they tire is what a responsible nonselfish parent does - any parent that self-medicates a child in this manner is taking a risk & they are being abusive to that child for ill-advised & negligent reasons based on selfish motives.  No matter how many parents have tried to justify that in their heads it is morally wrong & dangerous, most unfortunately detected to be criminally chargeable after injury or death to a child has occurred.  There are so many other parentally responsible behavior modifications and/or diversion tactics that can be used to calm an upset or misbehaving child so there is no real reason to resort to this practice.   People have to understand that with children even a small dose of a drug or toxic substance depending on weight, age, general health, etc can be the slightest difference from one day to another from a child being passed out for a few hours to death in a heartbeat.    Casey has to face what she did to Caylee whether it was her intent to kill her or not, what she did after the fact is even more heinous because she was & still is more concerned about saving herself.

Moving forward, Casey cannot just simply state in the middle of trial that she drugged Caylee but didnt intend to kill her.   If a plea bargain is offered she would have to admit what she did in order for a plea to be accepted OR she has to put forward a defense which admits her guilt but they would put forward whatever mental or other special circumstance as to why the act was committed  i.e. Andrea Yates, keep in mind Andrea Yates had a long history of mental health issues via medial records, Casey has none with no way to prove it other than hearsay.    She cannot put forward a guilty by reason of insanity because by legal standard she is very well aware of the difference between right & wrong as well as she has proven that she had displayed how she has concealed things she knew she did wrong or were illegal.  Postpartum Depression wont fly because Caylee was just under 3 which most PPD does not last that long treated or not & her habits/behavioral pattern began well before pregnancy & escalated well after pregnancy - her conduct over a period of years is so egregious that it is very doubtful a jury would have mercy on that excuse especially with no history or effort to seek medical attention for same.   If Im correct on this point, the DP is off the table in this case due to time allowed by prosectution to put that forward again & if that is not the case they still would consider not bringing it back because after conviction during penalty phase her family would all beg to spare her life, her age would come into consideration, the State prosecution wont risk a jury not finding guilty of murder one if a jury would be hestitant to vote for the DP.   That monster deserves it but spending her life in cell without the elaborate commissary perks she gets now will be a much more slow painful death for her, maybe that is more fitting for her such she had lived to be the center of attention & knew nothing else but her own desires & concerns that she will not be able to gratify.    Phew sorries that was a long one!

[GramaMonkey]

Sorry, if this has already been posted.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/casey-anthony-jailhouse-toilet-found-clogged-with-a-bible-say-reports/

[islandmonkey]

things are so seldom black and white. except who murdered caylee.

i wouldnt wish what has happened to the anthonys on my worst enemy. i also would hope and pray that i would never be defined by how i acted during the single darkest time in my life. it seems pretty simple, and yet...

there are so many hours of cindy talking, talking as in speaking (im only going by what i have actually watched all the way thru, like the fbi and le interviews and talk and news show appearances ), that i cant help react to her as a person. i dont like her. i dont like the way she talks nonstop, literally. i dont like how she tries to mold the truth to suit herself, i dont like how she doesnt let anyone get a word in edgewise, i dont like how self absorbed she is, i dont like how bossy she is, i dont like the blatant ingratitude shes exhibited for all those trying to help and i dont like her voice. i could go on but i think you get the idea.

how did she get that way? well, she is the youngest of 4 children and she is the only girl. was she spoiled and/or indulged? i would guess so. did her parents make excuses for her at times? probably. are her parents soley responsible for how she turned out? doubtful. do her family interactions seem not ideal at times? well ya. do i blame not liking her on her parents? course not, shes not the two year old ( even tho she may act like one at times ).

do i blame her mother, father, brothers, for her omitting to tell le and the fbi everything that she knew happened? no, its her id like to smack for making them have to waste a single second finding out themselves, thereby taking away time that could have been focused on caylee. do i blame them for her having the strained and competitive relationship she has with her own daughter? no, while ive known a sociopath, i didnt have to interact with them in the bounds of such a powerful and intimate bond as there is between mother and child.

the last sentence may seem strange given her daughter is charged with murdering her own baby. shes a sociopath, and the problem with that is so many of us look for reasons as to why, cause it needs to be something rational and acceptable, it just cant be for basically nothing. that kind of evil is hard to willingly accept, the woman basically looks normal...it cant be someone like us, its too scary.

its true however. thats what i prefer to focus on. the peripheral, ever expanding cast of strange characters, has all the attention of a worldwide three ring circus, and while interesting at times, it has nothing to do with what im concerned about, that caylees murderer gets prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. and rots her life away in jail.

Peanut, I find your post interesting. 

I'd especially like to remark re. the part re us being frightened by the prospect that evil walks among us.  Sorry I don't yet know how to "snip".

Over the years, I've strived to "train" my older teen to spot superfreaks.  It hasn't been easy, since they are chamelions.  And what kid listens to their mom... 

Not all sociopathic types kill their own offspring (obviously).  I think those individuals are a law unto themselves.  I'd kind of like to revisit Susan Smith ( ) a bit since I think she and alleged perp share that common denominator of thinking they'd be more desirable/snag the love of their life if they weren't bogged down w/the responsibility of being a responsible, caring parent.

Ironic ain't it? Some superfreaks want love and are willing to smoke the ones who love 'em to get some other folks to love them? 

I'm so confused by the superfreaks.     

Foggy

 

i know, its the height of irony isnt it? and here you and i are seeing it all and trying to make some sense of it, when i dont think we ever will.
they are amongst us, and while we want to feel secure in what weve taught our children, and the precautions we ourselves take, the plain truth seems to be that all too often it is one of 'us'.

theres a very interesting book titled 'the sociopath next door' that talks about how common they really are, and how not all of them are criminally violent. but they have no conscience, have no ability to emphasize, and when you consider that only their needs and desires matter, the capability is there, it just hasnt been necessary to tap into it yet.

to me, that is the truly frightening part. who knows how many potential casey anthonys there are, and how well do we 'know' them?

Some time ago, a friend told me about the book you cited, entitled The Sociopath Next Door, but I have yet to read it.  Now I'm thinking I shall read it and urge my older teen to read it too.

What in the heck is going wrong w/America?

Foggy

Well, for one thing victims seem to have less rights that perp's. Consider how the ACLU goes to bat for RSO's, they say "they've served their time, leave them alone and sto discriminating on where they live etc)........WRONG~they never pay the price for what they have done to their victims, while they may serve minimal time in prison IF any, the victims serves a life sentence. So, we are supposed to welcome them back into society and let them be...........not a chance in h@ll,I think if they are ever released they should have a huge sign in their yard and differnt color license plates. We may know where they live IF they choose to register, but while they are out trolling parks and little league games for more victims we don't have a clue, but if you are at a park and you see a bright yellow tag, you know a RSO is there somewhere and you get your kids out of there ASAP. In Florida, SO's have a designation on their driver's license, but that is no help to anyone unless except LE. The ACLU IMO is certainly somewhat responsible for making sure perp's have equal rights while not considering the dangers they still represent to society.


Gotta get ready for work-CYL monkeys.

[Green Eyes]

Sorry, if this has already been posted.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/casey-anthony-jailhouse-toilet-found-clogged-with-a-bible-say-reports/

Good Morning GramaMonkey,
That is just to funny

[Scarrlett]

Good Morning from the Catskills....Some heavy wet snow covering my life. Oh well, just have to read all day long!!

That picture of Caylee in the basket just gave me the creeps. Actually I think it is the bed of her baby doll that she can't part with. Her doll probably was her "safe place" and this would comfort her in the times when the "nasty adults" around her would throw their tantrums. I am sure Caylee was having a tantrum or two as most growing children do but these "mothers" of hers just never let up.

That's right Cindy and Casey ARE the temper tantrum idiots we have come to know today. And by all terms CINDY was the mother to all of them. Casey was a sucky parent to say the least. No....Casey was not a parent in any form except the fact that she birthed her.

I am surprised at how you can have NO prenatal care and have abuse throwen on you starting in the womb and come out so smart and healthy. They were so lucky for that and Casey did not appreciate Caylee one bit.

 When Cindy was at work Casey was "silent filming" this poor child with music blasting for long periods of time. You can see in them, that little Caylee is actually trying to get to the controls and is shooed away.
God called Caylee home and maybe that was for the best. God Knows Better.

[Sassycat]

'Nite Monkeys.I'm going to the bunkey.All this today and I just found out Hubby might lose his job.Now I'm really down and out.
Be back in the morning. Justicwe for Caylee.

Hey Trimm -   I hope everything works out for you and your hubby.   I'll keep you in my prayers.     Hugs my friend.

[pharlap]

GM everyone.
Was all of the 500 pages put out to the public?
And when are we going to get the other 600 pages that have been released?
Anyone know?

[3babiesmommy]

Sorry, if this has already been posted.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/casey-anthony-jailhouse-toilet-found-clogged-with-a-bible-say-reports/

Good Morning GramaMonkey,
That is just to funny

I am not surprised.   Her skin probaly started to melt away when she touched the bible. Monster can not have anything good in her life, no Caylee, no bible, no descent friends, no love.  She is evil.

[Cappuccino]

Cindy also told investigators something that could link her to the videotape taken at the scene by her private investigators a month before Caylee's remains were found there and could link Casey to the scene. In December, Cindy told investigators she sent someone to the remains scene in November to search and that there was nothing in the area then, but the new documents show that Caylee's skull had been in the same place for quite some time.

Why isnt this getting discussed more by the talkheads & media...I guess Cindy hoped this nugget wouldnt come out, as if she hasnt learned by now.   Since that psychic that Cindy sent the teddy bear to never came forward with her phone records its pretty clear she was lying for Cindy.   Here are questions that should arise from this new knowledge.   

Why did Cindy send DC there specifically & how did she know to send him there?
Why didnt Cindy call LE (OSCO and/or FBI) to send them?
Does this not prove that Cindy knew all along that Casey killed Caylee & was helping her cover it up?
Remember the report from Hoover that DC stated to him that they knew where Caylee was and she was deceased but they had to go get her...
Had Dominic found the remains what was Cindy planning on doing with that discovery?

VERY DISTURBING & I for one out of a probably millions feel she should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice & tampering with evidence...ps did Cindy ever give LE the JC Penney statements they asked her for several times, NO.   Instead she argued very defensively with Yuri about it and said "Well there wasnt anything on them"   Bull I'll bet it showed a purchase for a replacement of the Whitney laundry bag and/or the Winnie the Pooh blanket.   Interesting that we now know that Cindy had an excited utterance in December after the remains were found that they were missing a Winnie the Pooh blanket from the home & George was sent to the patio rather upset....who was in the backyard with him - none other than Dominic Casey & Hoover.   If Lee is involved in this cover up you can bet it was also at Cindy's direction.  Judging by George's secret visits to OCSO I had hopes that he would come clean & get this charade stopped, but nope he's a sorry puppet that doesn't have the deceny or dignity to stand up for what is right.   Debate away that a family would protect a member even with a heinous crime but in the process they all dishonored Caylee to the extent and in the manner they actively participated in covering up what Casey did.

[QuietMonkey]

Good morning all monkeys & guests. I hope this isn't a dumb question (it is still early), but did LE actually take the diary into evidence, and not just photograph it? I'm just wondering because I would think that given that entry, they would atleast have found out who manufactured that book, and when it was manufactured & sold. Obviously if that book was manufactured and or sold after 2003, KC could not have written that in 2003. So, I hope, expect, that they would have done that. I'm just asking if any one knows for sure that they actually took the book into evidence-which I'm sure they did! I really hope they looked into when that book was even made. I hope it wasn't even made or sold until well after 2003!

[3babiesmommy]

'Nite Monkeys.I'm going to the bunkey.All this today and I just found out Hubby might lose his job.Now I'm really down and out.
Be back in the morning. Justicwe for Caylee.

Hey Trimm -   I hope everything works out for you and your hubby.   I'll keep you in my prayers.     Hugs my friend.

Trimm, I said a prayer for her husband.  I hope everything turns out well.

[trimmonthelake]

Sorry, if this has already been posted.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/casey-anthony-jailhouse-toilet-found-clogged-with-a-bible-say-reports/

Thanks GramaMonkey.She is such a dimbazz. 

[Steel Monkey]

Good Morning all monkeys from sunny and 80 degree south Texas!

Let's go back to the first 40 days, and play a game of "Who Are You", the great gameshow where you get to ask questions to figure out who the person is!

Did you wait 30 days to report that your child was missing?   YES
Did you lie to the police about where you worked?  YES
Did you party like a rock star while you were supposed to be looking for your child?  YES
Did you make up a story about dropping her off at Zanny the Nanny's apartement?  YES
Did you change that story to say she was taken by Zanny at the park?  YES
Did you steal money from everyone you came in contact with?  YES
Did police find evidence of decomposition in your trunk?   YES
Did police find evidence of a death band on your daughters hair strand in your trunk?   YES

Um, let me take a guess.....Are you GUILTY?   YES

Those first 40 days are the cake.  Everything else is just icing.  Put a fork in KC, she is done!

[trimmonthelake]

'Nite Monkeys.I'm going to the bunkey.All this today and I just found out Hubby might lose his job.Now I'm really down and out.
Be back in the morning. Justicwe for Caylee.

Hey Trimm -   I hope everything works out for you and your hubby.   I'll keep you in my prayers.     Hugs my friend.

Thanks my monkey friend.I'm praying myself.
When you look around it can always be worse.
At least I'm not in jail.   

[trimmonthelake]

'Nite Monkeys.I'm going to the bunkey.All this today and I just found out Hubby might lose his job.Now I'm really down and out.
Be back in the morning. Justicwe for Caylee.

Hey Trimm -   I hope everything works out for you and your hubby.   I'll keep you in my prayers.     Hugs my friend.

Trimm, I said a prayer for her husband.  I hope everything turns out well.

Thank you.
Are you eyes as tired as mine from yesterday?
I say bring on some more documents.I think there is still alot we haven't heard. 

[Scarrlett]

Sorry, if this has already been posted.

http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/casey-anthony-jailhouse-toilet-found-clogged-with-a-bible-say-reports/

Good Morning GramaMonkey,
That is just to funny
[/quot


Oh MyMyMy...That is such good gossip. I bet the "lower level" people they are talking about are the poor janitors and plumbers that had to clean the mess up. IMO those people are the "top dogs" especially when your toilet won't flush. Wonder how much that cost the state of Florida. They should take that out of her commissary. Make her pay!!

It also says she complains of gas and headaches and bad bikini waxes. 
If this doesn't show everyone that LWOP is a more just punishment for this twit,then I don't know what will. She is alone and miserable and will become a crazy for real.
"Vengeance be mine says the lord"  I always took that as, I don't have to clutter my soul with such things. It's already covered by the Big Guy.  JMO

 Good Morning Trimm...I am praying for you and yours. 

[Sassycat]

Good morning all monkeys & guests. I hope this isn't a dumb question (it is still early), but did LE actually take the diary into evidence, and not just photograph it? I'm just wondering because I would think that given that entry, they would atleast have found out who manufactured that book, and when it was manufactured & sold. Obviously if that book was manufactured and or sold after 2003, KC could not have written that in 2003. So, I hope, expect, that they would have done that. I'm just asking if any one knows for sure that they actually took the book into evidence-which I'm sure they did! I really hope they looked into when that book was even made. I hope it wasn't even made or sold until well after 2003!

Good question - but I don't know the answer.       Just wanted to say "Hi".

But I will say this - even if the book was from 2003, she could have still made that entry in 2008.   It does appear that some of the pages have been torn out in front of that entry.   And, it does seem to match her "mood" that day - when compared to the IM conversation she had with that guy.    KC IS GOING DOWN!

[PookyBear]

Good morning Monkeys --

Trimm I have said a prayer for Hubs this morning.  I hope things turn out okay.  (((Hugs))) to you.

Scarlett -- stay warm inside. 

I would think the 1100 pages the state turned over to the defense on Monday will be released tomorrow or Monday, fingers crossed.

Have a great day!

[Sassycat]

'Nite Monkeys.I'm going to the bunkey.All this today and I just found out Hubby might lose his job.Now I'm really down and out.
Be back in the morning. Justicwe for Caylee.

Hey Trimm -   I hope everything works out for you and your hubby.   I'll keep you in my prayers.     Hugs my friend.

Trimm, I said a prayer for her husband.  I hope everything turns out well.

Thank you.
Are you eyes as tired as mine from yesterday?
I say bring on some more documents.I think there is still alot we haven't heard. 

Yes - my eyes are tired but I'm ready for more!    I hope they let us have them by tomorrow.  I don't want to wait until next week!