Caylee Marie Anthony #107 2/17/09 - 2/19/09

[Today]

I'd like your thoughts on what we know was found with Caylee -- in other words definitely related and not possible random trash items.

So here is what I gather

Caylee was wearing in her "big trouble" t-shirt and striped shorts and a pull-up
Duct tape around her head, hear sticker placed over mouth
She was wrapped in her Pooh blanket (stained)
Double bagged in black trash bags
Placed in clothes hamper with handles
Dora backpack?

So what do you all think? Was she killed at the Anthony home, in the car or somewhere else?

Based on these items I'd say at the home ... but of course JMO. 

IMO if there is a backing found, from the sticker, in the house.  She was killed in the house.  There is no way a sticker could be carried not on the backing.  If sticker was placed on duct tape for transport, the position on Caylee would be off or there would be two sites on duct tape with sticker residue.

[Tevye]

Good Gawd!!!!   Serenity now!!!!  And to think I have to attnd a meeting this afternoon - and I'm the only male in attendance.  Where's my Grasshopper when she is needed?  Trimm, you out there?  Newfie?  Where are you?   AHHHHHHHHHH!!!   

I got you covered CC.It's all good.I'm watching out for Newfie. 
(I've got the first aid kit if we need it.  )

This is the only time in my almost 15 year internet life that I've ever said this (as I'm usually the rabble-rouser, off topic queen) , but for the love of bananas, where's a mod when you need one?

Is there a mod meeting this morning? Are they discussing a dress code? Think they'll require us all to wear bow ties? Are the mods all making a giant "Get Well" card for Jose? (Mods, I know you have real lives, and I'm not complaining... I'm trying to lighten the mood...but I do have credentials if you need them! )

[TURBOTHINK]

Please refer to TurboThink's recent post, dear.  It explains it all.

It explains nothing.  The results that we have are based on the evidence that the FBI deemed reasonable for the testing.  The testing done was what the FBI deemed to be reasonable enough for the situation. 

Now unless you all plan on going and conducting your own tests, I do not see how, other than your posts, you plan to disprove the FBI.

Again, percentages of which studies were wrong versus which studies were right would be nice to know in the information provided by Turbo.  If its a 50/50 percent chance it is wrong then its a toss up, but if its more of a 80/20 or a 90/10 then what the heck!!

With this high profile case I am sure that the FBI is not cutting corners, they want to nail the Anthony's as much as the next monkey....I do not get why anyone would want to debate this one issue and not their other results or findings.

If you are going to throw this discovery out might as well throw out the rest...maybe the hair in the trunk of Casey's car was not Caylees.....etc.

I am not even saying they are wrong. I am saying there is a LOT left to interpretation in this one.

I would have preferred a forensic profile as opposed to the more simple STR for such an important case. They may not consider it important enough to the case to have more extensive testing, and felt the STR was adequate. I am not a DNA expert but I do have friends who are, and I simply asked how the STR worked in incest cases and the reply I received was what I posted.  

[Dolce]

Oh,you're a undercover sperm hunter during your lunch breaks? 

Ok..now that did not sound right!!!   

[ShariVari]

Here maybe this will end it all right here.

Jan 21st Evidence released
http://www.wftv.com/news/18530418/detail.html
Article 4 Evidence sent by county to FBI
They obtained two Buccal swabs from the left check of K9 ( Lee) buccal=  skin cells.

http://www.geneticprofiles.com/main_files/faq.htm

# How does DNA paternity testing work using a Buccal Swab?
A buccal swab is a specialized applicator with a sponge, cotton or Dacron tip. The applicator is rubbed on the inside of the cheek to collect epithelial cells. This procedure is non-invasive and painless.

#
What kinds of samples are needed for DNA testing?
Genetic Profiles frequently uses a cheek swab collection (buccal swab) since it is easy to obtain, completely non-invasive, painless, and is just as accurate as blood samples. Almost any biological sample could be used since DNA is located everywhere throughout the body in the same exact form.
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One would hope, but I doubt it. 

Its as if people are just beside themselves hoping that Lee will be the father, as if that will give some sort of satisfaction in all of this, but the truth is that is disgusting to even fathom that he could be let alone that he would be.

Why the need to continue to debate this, now with the FBI results, is beyond me!  If they want to throw out that testing, might as well throw out the whole lot of testing done in this case thus far...as it could be erronious too.  Those types of people would make it to Baez's jury pick list for sure.

I agree - those types of people would make it to Baez's jury - THEY ARE OPEN MINDED - HAVE NOT COME TO ANY CONCLUSION YET - THEY WANT TO SEE ALL THE EVIDENCE.    Count me in!
Is there a way for members who think this debate is dead to overlook it just as if it were OT or monkey friends joking around with each other?  I ignore lots of play that is by monkeys who know each other.  Maybe those who have made up their mind can ignore the debate continuing and let everyone feel a part of OUR board? 

keep in mind, these are the results from ONE test.  what were they testing?  we don't know.  All we know is something didn't match up at one point.  it doesn't rule out everything.

From Document bolded above: pg 3318

Note: Please compare DNA profile of Lee Anthony against DNA profile of Caylee Anthony

those buccal swabs are listed as what was to be used for comparison. Don't you remember how rowdy the cage got when we realized that LE was going to check into this?? Well the results are in!

but if the sample is that hair with mitochondrial dna, then there couldn't be made a conclusive match.  that's my story, I'm stickin' to it. 

jesse. provided. all. the. paternity. testing. info. and. that. includes. a. full. dna. profile. of. caylee.

just because they have a full dna profile, doesn't mean it was used in every single comparative test. I respect those who disagree with me.  sorry I screwed up the last post.

[leslee]

keep in mind, these are the results from ONE test.  what were they testing?  we don't know.  All we know is something didn't match up at one point.  it doesn't rule out everything.

....and how many times do you suggest that they test these samples against one another?  Until they get a 1% result showing in your favor? 

Again, why the need to pin Lee as the father????

Speaking for myself, if Caylee were the product of incest by either George or Lee it would somewhat explain Casey's behavior and hold she had over the family. The taking of the life of your own flesh and blood is just so hard to accept that I've looked for reasons that KC may have had such hatred toward her own child. Just trying to understand what her motivation might have been in all of this and the incest angle would have given some little bit of that understanding. I keep asking why when there were so many other options available to rid herself of an unwanted child...........

I agree N2, I believe it was spite against Cindy. Cindy was a "mother" to Caylee, KC was jealous. How many women are killed by jealous husbands whose logic is " If I can't have you no one else will". KC did not want Caylee but she sure as hell wasn't going to let Cindy have her! Also I think there was a huge fight on the 15th and Cindy probably threatened to get custody of Caylee, KC knowing she stood a good chance and being the selfish person she is got rid of that possibility 

[Today]

www.cfnews13.com Anthony Investigator Searched Site Where Remains Were Found
Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:46:22 AM
Tools: E-mail | Print | Feedback | 
 
ORLANDO -- A judge ruled an interview between deputies and a private investigator for the Anthony family could be released Thursday.

Deputies wanted to talk to Dominic Casey after a video surfaced that showed him in the area where Caylee's remains were found a month before the discovery was made by a meter reader.
   
Dominic Casey told investigators he got a call from a woman who said she had a vision Caylee was in that area.
   
He also heard it was a former hangout of Casey Anthony.  He said he checked it out, but he never found any signs of the missing toddler.
   
This transcript was kept out of the public spotlight until Judge Stan Strickland ruled the release would have little impact on the case.

hmmmm

[ShariVari]

Ladies and Gentlemen!  Your featured bout this evening!

In this corner, All of the Monkeys who think Lee is the Daddy and FBI Lab test are suspect.

In the other corner, All of the Monkeys who think the case is settled with FBI labe results.

LET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUMMMMBBBLLLLEEEE!

WTF does this have to do with Caylee?

The only winner here will be the monkeys who will stand up and shout:

"Na-na-na-boo-boo.  I was right!  You were wrong!"

I thought us monkeys had evolved a bit more than that.

Just sayin...

Actually, I think this is about more than the DNA results and whether or not the are conclusive at this point.
I think it is about: Respect, group dynamics, open mindedness and gang mentality.
There was a post a few pages back that bolded one members defensive words and called them out as tossing insults - but the insults tossed by other members was not bolded.  I am not sure why on earth anyone thinks belittling, name calling and rudeness is effective in constructive debate.  98% of the time, SM is a great place for digging to the absolute bottom.  It is the 2% of the time that hurts us as a group.  I have seen this 2% several times in my short life in the cage.  It has caused me to lurk, be hurt and even feel the need to defend or at least point it out.
Again, I think that if a topic strikes a nerve in someone who has made up their mind on an aspect already - then please, for the sake of unity - just view the debate as the OT humor and talk among friends and move on.  JMHO - for what it is worth. 

Thank you for saying this, I have observed this dynamic for some time and take it with a grain of salt, but it makes me feel better that others notice it as well.

[guideposts]

THANK YOU chkrdpast & klass for posting those photos for me.
 I'm back several pages reading, but wanted you both to know I appreciate your help!

[goodnmad]

Oh,you're a undercover sperm hunter during your lunch breaks? 

Oh! My virgin ears (eyes)!!! Why I never! Well, ok, maybe one time. 

[Babybear]

    I  have a question and I hope it is not too gruesome.  In reading over the docs about the found bones.  I notice that the hands are found but seem not to be in pieces.  How is it that the rest of the skeleton is disarticulated, but not the hands?  I am sorry to be so gross, but how do you think that could be?  I guess it made me wonder if some of the extra duct tape in the area could have come off of them recently.

As terrible as it is to contemplate, I think that is what happened.  A few days ago someone (I forgot which poster it was) said it was very difficult to put tape on a living person and I guess she had experimented with it somehow.  I think it wouldn't be difficult to do that to a small child especially if you taped their hands.  I have come to believe that that is what Casey did.  I can see no reason to put tape on the mouth of a dead person. 

[TURBOTHINK]

Forgot to say Good Morning Monks....old and new.....and so sorry to read about Monks and Monk family members losing jobs.......MY DH lost his job in June and it took him 6 months to find another......it is tough out there!

I would love to know what was in that letter that was mailed to LEE? I notice it was sent to the Evidence Department. I want to see more into cin-cin statements about her sending someone to the crime scene area one moth before....WHY did she do that? Why THERE??  There is sooooooooooooooo much more to come out! I think JB is right in the middle of all the Why's and I hope it is enough involvement to get him disbarred!

Lots of Monkey's in here in very life changing times right now.  I have noted you all down, and will keep you in my prayers.  Sunny thanks for bringing a glimmer of hope with the news that your husband DID end up finding a job.  Though the light at the end of the tunnel is not always bright, the closer you get to it the better you will see it shine. 

I too hope that JB gets his just desserts.  I hope that there is no way for an appeal as well based on bad counsil, that is why I am so happy that Strickland is forcing her to appear at every court date.

I think that was a "shyster" move by Baez to have  grounds for an appeal, and Judge Strickland saw through it.

[akmom]

    About the box of newspaper clippings, too, I found it odd that they went into the attic for them.  I didn't see anything else taken from the attic.  I wonder what made them look up there?

[Dolce]

I think that was a "shyster" move by Baez to have  grounds for an appeal, and Judge Strickland saw through it.

Very good point, and quite possible.  It seems like cheating aces in his pocket is all that Baez has.

[N2WISHN]

keep in mind, these are the results from ONE test.  what were they testing?  we don't know.  All we know is something didn't match up at one point.  it doesn't rule out everything.

....and how many times do you suggest that they test these samples against one another?  Until they get a 1% result showing in your favor? 

Again, why the need to pin Lee as the father????

Speaking for myself, if Caylee were the product of incest by either George or Lee it would somewhat explain Casey's behavior and hold she had over the family. The taking of the life of your own flesh and blood is just so hard to accept that I've looked for reasons that KC may have had such hatred toward her own child. Just trying to understand what her motivation might have been in all of this and the incest angle would have given some little bit of that understanding. I keep asking why when there were so many other options available to rid herself of an unwanted child...........

I agree N2, I believe it was spite against Cindy. Cindy was a "mother" to Caylee, KC was jealous. How many women are killed by jealous husbands whose logic is " If I can't have you no one else will". KC did not want Caylee but she sure as hell wasn't going to let Cindy have her! Also I think there was a huge fight on the 15th and Cindy probably threatened to get custody of Caylee, KC knowing she stood a good chance and being the selfish person she is got rid of that possibility 

If George and Lee are ruled out as being the father, then I will have to come to terms with just accepting Casey as purely evil and a spiteful b!tch. Hard concept to grasp when it involves intentionally killing your own in cold blood!! She just did not have the capacity to truely love, the one thing that is inborn into most mothers..........

[Tevye]

    I  have a question and I hope it is not too gruesome.  In reading over the docs about the found bones.  I notice that the hands are found but seem not to be in pieces.  How is it that the rest of the skeleton is disarticulated, but not the hands?  I am sorry to be so gross, but how do you think that could be?  I guess it made me wonder if some of the extra duct tape in the area could have come off of them recently.

As terrible as it is to contemplate, I think that is what happened.  A few days ago someone (I forgot which poster it was) said it was very difficult to put tape on a living person and I guess she had experimented with it somehow.  I think it wouldn't be difficult to do that to a small child especially if you taped their hands.  I have come to believe that that is what Casey did.  I can see no reason to put tape on the mouth of a dead person. 

Earlier this week, someone posted a pic of a kid duct-taped to the wall. It was hilarious! One comment was "somewhere out there is a tired mom with a great sense of humor". The kid looked like maybe a year old. It was funny, it was not child abuse (just heading that discussion off before it begins.) Sorry, I can't remember which day, and don't know how to post pics here, but wanted you to know it is possible to duct tape a living person. (Oy to the vey, what I wished I knew when our boys were teenagers!)

[can]

    I  have a question and I hope it is not too gruesome.  In reading over the docs about the found bones.  I notice that the hands are found but seem not to be in pieces.  How is it that the rest of the skeleton is disarticulated, but not the hands?  I am sorry to be so gross, but how do you think that could be?  I guess it made me wonder if some of the extra duct tape in the area could have come off of them recently.

As terrible as it is to contemplate, I think that is what happened.  A few days ago someone (I forgot which poster it was) said it was very difficult to put tape on a living person and I guess she had experimented with it somehow.  I think it wouldn't be difficult to do that to a small child especially if you taped their hands.  I have come to believe that that is what Casey did.  I can see no reason to put tape on the mouth of a dead person. 

as awful as it sounds, tape on the hands would prevent any attempt to remove tape from mouth or push away @ someone trying to hold something over the nostrils if there was an attempt to chloroform them.

[Dolce]

    About the box of newspaper clippings, too, I found it odd that they went into the attic for them.  I didn't see anything else taken from the attic.  I wonder what made them look up there?

Casey was out on bail for a bit of time.  I wonder if she was not collecting "momentos" of her kill?

[Monken]

keep in mind, these are the results from ONE test.  what were they testing?  we don't know.  All we know is something didn't match up at one point.  it doesn't rule out everything.

....and how many times do you suggest that they test these samples against one another?  Until they get a 1% result showing in your favor? 

Again, why the need to pin Lee as the father????

Speaking for myself, if Caylee were the product of incest by either George or Lee it would somewhat explain Casey's behavior and hold she had over the family. The taking of the life of your own flesh and blood is just so hard to accept that I've looked for reasons that KC may have had such hatred toward her own child. Just trying to understand what her motivation might have been in all of this and the incest angle would have given some little bit of that understanding. I keep asking why when there were so many other options available to rid herself of an unwanted child...........

In a normal woman you may be able to see some hatred for a child born out of incest. You could also rationalize a woman giving such a child up for adoption. But hatred toward Caylee had little to do with Casey's decision to eliminate her & everything to do with her hatred for her mother. A sociopath will do anything to win "get even" up to & including murder. It's the ultimate. And at that moment Casey didn't think twice about the consequences:

From The Sociopath Next Door:
THE METHODS SOCIOPATHS DREAM UP TO CONTROL OTHERS--THE SCHEMES CONTRIVED TO ENSURE "WINS"--ARE QUITE VARIOUS, AND ONLY A FEW OF THEM HAVE TO DO WITH PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. AFTER ALL, VIOLENCE IS CONSPICUOUS, AND UNLESS PERFORMED AGAINST THE UTTERLY POWERLESS, SUCH AS CHILDREN OR ANIMALS, IT IS LIKELY TO GET THE PERPETRATOR CAUGHT. THE GAME IS THE THING. IT CAN RUN THE GAMUT FROM WORLD DOMINATION TO A FREE LUNCH, BUT IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME GAME--CONTROLLING, MAKING OTHERS JUMP, "WINNING". WHEN THE VALUE OF RELATIONSHIPS HAS BEEN REDUCED TO NEARLY NOTHING, DOMINANCE IS SOMETIMES ASSERTED BY MURDERING PEOPLE.

[Dolce]

Earlier this week, someone posted a pic of a kid duct-taped to the wall. It was hilarious! One comment was "somewhere out there is a tired mom with a great sense of humor". The kid looked like maybe a year old. It was funny, it was not child abuse (just heading that discussion off before it begins.) Sorry, I can't remember which day, and don't know how to post pics here, but wanted you to know it is possible to duct tape a living person. (Oy to the vey, what I wished I knew when our boys were teenagers!)