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Author Topic: Haleigh Cummings #2 2/20/09 - 2/26/09  (Read 320586 times)
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rana
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« Reply #1420 on: February 25, 2009, 04:29:07 PM »

I have a question for anyone in general who knows or perhaps someone who is in LE related work.

Is it permissible for LE to state "mis-truths" (TM Cindy Anthony)    to people being questioned if it's deemed in the best interest of discovery or if it serves LE's purposes for some reason known only to them?

IOW, can LE lie directly or by omission or by implication in order to further their goal? For example, if person A failed a poly and person B, C, and D etc passed, can they tell them all that  they "don't know" and that they "have to send it to Cornhole, Wherever, for results" in order to stall for time or whatever reason that may have?

Or perhaps the purpose could be not to share the results with all of them and treat them all equally as far as info and "the story" are concerned so as not to single Person A.... by Person A being the only one not told.

Point being, could it be that maybe they don't want Person A (or whoever) to lawyer up or freak out or bolt and head for the hills b/c LE knows they have nothing concrete at the moment with which to hold this person? 

My question, long story long, is this. Is LE obligated legally to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth to people they're questioning who may or may not be involved in a case while they're trying to determine who did what when? Or do they have to tell the truth only in a semantic sense, but can they mince their words to convey an implication?

For example like when someone says hypothetically to a presumed suspect or POI,  "What if I told you we have your DNA all over the scene?" Well, they're not technically saying that they do have their DNA b/c it was phrased as, "What if I told you;"  But someone, particularly if involved, guilty, or under stress, could theoretically "hear" it wrong and infer that their DNA is indeed "all over the scene" and think that the jig is up.

I didn't say that well, but my question is in there somewhere.   



Hey girl~short answer is no.....they can mislead you when you are being questioned, it's a pretty common practice before someone lawyers up

Thanks. .  I kind of thought so, but wasnt sure. It would really tie their hands if that were so; and I imagine in some cases, people would be skipping town like crazy. .

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Treehouse
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« Reply #1421 on: February 25, 2009, 04:31:51 PM »

I have a question for anyone in general who knows or perhaps someone who is in LE related work.

Is it permissible for LE to state "mis-truths" (TM Cindy Anthony)    to people being questioned if it's deemed in the best interest of discovery or if it serves LE's purposes for some reason known only to them?

IOW, can LE lie directly or by omission or by implication in order to further their goal? For example, if person A failed a poly and person B, C, and D etc passed, can they tell them all that  they "don't know" and that they "have to send it to Cornhole, Wherever, for results" in order to stall for time or whatever reason that may have?

Or perhaps the purpose could be not to share the results with all of them and treat them all equally as far as info and "the story" are concerned so as not to single Person A.... by Person A being the only one not told.

Point being, could it be that maybe they don't want Person A (or whoever) to lawyer up or freak out or bolt and head for the hills b/c LE knows they have nothing concrete at the moment with which to hold this person? 

My question, long story long, is this. Is LE obligated legally to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth to people they're questioning who may or may not be involved in a case while they're trying to determine who did what when? Or do they have to tell the truth only in a semantic sense, but can they mince their words to convey an implication?

For example like when someone says hypothetically to a presumed suspect or POI,  "What if I told you we have your DNA all over the scene?" Well, they're not technically saying that they do have their DNA b/c it was phrased as, "What if I told you;"  But someone, particularly if involved, guilty, or under stress, could theoretically "hear" it wrong and infer that their DNA is indeed "all over the scene" and think that the jig is up.
I didn't say that well, but my question is in there somewhere.   




Thanks for making me do some interesting research:

Modern interrogation is a study in human nature. Most of us are more likely to talk to people who appear to be like us. Once we start talking, it's hard for us to stop. Once we start telling the truth, it's harder to start lying. When a police officer tells us our fingerprints were found on the inside doorknob of a home that was robbed two days ago, we get nervous, even if we wore gloves the whole time we were inside.

With a few exceptions, the police are allowed to lie to a suspect to get him to confess. The belief is that an innocent person would never confess to a crime she didn't commit, even if she were confronted with false physical evidence of her involvement. Unfortunately, that's not always the case (more on false confessions in the next section), but it's a big part of the reason why the police are allowed to employ deceptive tactics in interrogation.

 http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-interrogation1.htm

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rana
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« Reply #1422 on: February 25, 2009, 04:37:41 PM »

Well, I can't find Haleigh here on the Jacksonville FBI field office site either, unless she's there and I've gone goofy.... again. . 

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fo/jkwanted.htm

Here's the county breakdown map of the Jacksonville field office's domain FWIW. Putman County is under the Jacksonville office in the sub category of Daytona regional area (in green)

http://jacksonville.fbi.gov/territorial.htm

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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1423 on: February 25, 2009, 04:40:31 PM »

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/mostpopular/news-article.aspx?storyid=131270&provider=top

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- The FBI is involved in the search for Haleigh Cummings.

Retired FBI agent Ron Wirth spent 30 years with the agency, and headed up the Evidence Response team in Jacksonville for a number of years.

CLICK HERE FOR MORE ON HALEIGH CUMMINGS

Wirth could not comment on the Haleigh case since he's not working on the investigation, but Wirth did offer insight in what FBI agents look at when faced with a missing child.


©2009 First Coast News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, rewritten, or redistributed
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1424 on: February 25, 2009, 04:42:13 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1425 on: February 25, 2009, 04:47:37 PM »

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/39365427.html  another link w/FBI involvement in Haleigh case.


Amber Alert for Haleigh Cummings Save Email Print
 
 
Posted: 9:56 AM Feb 10, 2009
Last Updated: 9:54 AM Feb 11, 2009

36 comments   
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
A | A | A Authorities are still searching for a 5-year-old
north Florida girl who went missing from her bed.
A Florida Amber Alert was issued for Haleigh Cummings. The
Satsuma girl was last seen Monday night when she went to bed.
Investigators with the Putnam County Sheriff's Office say it's
not clear if Haleigh was abducted. The trailer where she lives had
no signs of forced entry but a back door was ajar.
Haleigh's father says the blonde girl was missing when he
returned home from work around 3 a.m. Tuesday. Ronald Cummings says his girlfriend was awake and frantic that Haleigh was missing from her bed.
Local and state authorities and the FBI searched Tuesday for
Haleigh in neighbors' homes and vehicles leaving her neighborhood
on the St. Johns River. That search continued on Wednesday morning.
Satsuma is about 70 miles north of Orlando.

Missing Endangered Persons Information Clearinghouse:

 
HALEIGH CUMMINGS

Date Missing: 2/10/2009

 
 
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rana
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« Reply #1426 on: February 25, 2009, 04:54:59 PM »

Where my lame self was going with all this is that I was reading about the "CARD" teams (Child Abduction Rapid Deployment) which is described as another tool in the FBI's CAC (Crimes Against Children) Program (I know the plethora of acronyms is dizzying.) . 

They seem to specify dealing with or focusing on  - so to speak, cases of abductions "by strangers" and abductions by "someone other than a family member" (which implies not a stranger, per se, but not a relative)

The teams work closely with behavioral analysts, (NCAVC) National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime coordinators, and Crimes Against Children coordinators.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/kidnap.htm

They don't say that they're limited to stranger, non-family abductions however.  These teams are delpolyed soon after an abduction has been reported to a local FBI field office, to FBI Headquarters, or to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or in other cases when the FBI determines an investigation is warranted.

Also, here's a useful webpage with tips and guidance about safety, kidnapping, child abduction, and missing persons info called, "Be Crime Smart"

http://www.fbi.gov/becrimesmart.htm



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islandmonkey
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HaLeigh~you are loved and in God's loving arms


« Reply #1427 on: February 25, 2009, 04:55:38 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1428 on: February 25, 2009, 04:59:46 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.

Ha! Ha!  I just felt Po Po was fitting for this case, I don't know why!?!
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rana
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« Reply #1429 on: February 25, 2009, 05:01:21 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.


That pink shirt thing still has me stumped.

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islandmonkey
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HaLeigh~you are loved and in God's loving arms


« Reply #1430 on: February 25, 2009, 05:03:55 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.

Ha! Ha!  I just felt Po Po was fitting for this case, I don't know why!?!


hmmm~I can't imagine why anytime you hear the theme song from Deliverance going thru your head while watching this case unfold, po po is probably a good term.
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rana
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« Reply #1431 on: February 25, 2009, 05:06:53 PM »

Islandmonkey, you should send your Po PO no no info to Susan Moss on the NG show with her annoying Nipsy Russell-esque rhymes that drive me up the freakin wall . .

It's almost like she's trying to be funny and it's so not funny.

One time someone had apparently tried to unsuccessfully escalate the decomposition of a body by using the wrong substance, and Moss chimed in with, "If you use the wrong lime, You're gonna do time." I wanted to open a vein. Please.Make.It.Stop. . 




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rana
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« Reply #1432 on: February 25, 2009, 05:11:13 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.

Ha! Ha!  I just felt Po Po was fitting for this case, I don't know why!?!


hmmm~I can't imagine why anytime you hear the theme song from Deliverance going thru your head while watching this case unfold, po po is probably a good term.


I do hear dueling banjos now that you mention it... as well as the theme song from "Cops" replete with obligaotry "wife beater" t-shirt or the ever popular shirtless ensemble.

"Bad boys, bad boys what cha gonna do..."

(Sorry; Someone admonish me. I deserve it.)




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islandmonkey
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HaLeigh~you are loved and in God's loving arms


« Reply #1433 on: February 25, 2009, 05:15:35 PM »

Islandmonkey, you should send your Po PO no no info to Susan Moss on the NG show with her annoying Nipsy Russell-esque rhymes that drive me up the freakin wall . .

It's almost like she's trying to be funny and it's so not funny.

One time someone had apparently tried to unsuccessfully escalate the decomposition of a body by using the wrong substance, and Moss chimed in with, "If you use the wrong lime, You're gonna do time." I wanted to open a vein. Please.Make.It.Stop. . 






  I know she drives me NUTZ, everytime I hear she is going to be one, even the kids are like "nit that rhyming lady with the big mouth".........they are too young to remember her, but she reminds me of Gilda Radner's character on SNL, Rosanna Rosanna Danna........
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1434 on: February 25, 2009, 05:17:37 PM »

Yup, Yup!  If the glove does not fit you must aquit. Or whatever Johnnie said.   I just got thro Windows Internet Explorer pop up window He!!, it was entertaining, I thought I could beat them just once, but no....I had to reboot!
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islandmonkey
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HaLeigh~you are loved and in God's loving arms


« Reply #1435 on: February 25, 2009, 05:17:45 PM »

Question answered?  They haven't even changed the amber alert for Haleigh as of yesterday, still says wearing pink shirt, so go figure on updates by any Po Po.

I'm beginning to think the Po Po don't have No No info........and am praying this doesn't turn into a cold case.

Ha! Ha!  I just felt Po Po was fitting for this case, I don't know why!?!


hmmm~I can't imagine why anytime you hear the theme song from Deliverance going thru your head while watching this case unfold, po po is probably a good term.


I do hear dueling banjos now that you mention it... as well as the theme song from "Cops" replete with obligaotry "wife beater" t-shirt or the ever popular shirtless ensemble.

"Bad boys, bad boys what cha gonna do..."

(Sorry; Someone admonish me. I deserve it.)






  Admonish you, know way~I agree.......but then again nothing can top a nascar redneck who like to try and talk DC rap.....I think I got that right Fatcatlurker
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fatcatlurker
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« Reply #1436 on: February 25, 2009, 05:18:31 PM »

And don't forget the interpreter for the Country Nascar Black Rap Lingo...Ha Ha!
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rana
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« Reply #1437 on: February 25, 2009, 05:20:53 PM »


Hey, which great grandmother saw Haleigh and Jr at 7 PM on that Mon evening? ... something about dropping off clothes?



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rana
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« Reply #1438 on: February 25, 2009, 05:22:31 PM »

And don't forget the interpreter for the Country Nascar Black Rap Lingo...Ha Ha!

BWAH!! **snort**

I needed a guffaw. And BTW I actually snort when I type **snort** - heh. . 

Jus sayin; (TMI) . . 

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wendiw8780
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« Reply #1439 on: February 25, 2009, 05:23:04 PM »

in our state child support does not stop upon a remarriage...I would think that ron would still be responsible for support of Amber's child even if she is married...?
Do we know for sure that ron is not paying support? Is her husband's name on the birth certificate or is ron's? Perhaps if hubby's name is on there, until paternity is proven, no support is ordered? dunno....just asking

I no nothing about child support, merely speculation, and I think from his stand on all these misc. children he has the right attitude let the mothers bring the court order and prove he's the father, he's probably the only one around w/a job!?!  The extent of my knowledge on child support is from 2.5 men show and now my bro is seeking divorce and wants to give 1400.00 a month for my nephew and my SIL thinks that is not enough!?!

i think a parent still has to paid child support even if the other parent remarries. my parents divorced when i was 1 year old & my mom remarried when i was 2 1/2. my bio father owes 12 years in back child support (only paid one month) my stepfather adopted me legally when i was 14. my attorney said my bio father only owes child support up until i was legally adopted. also, i gave up any right to any inheritance left by my bio dad since i was legally adopted. i was very lucky, my daddy (adoptive father) never wanted any money from my bio dad to help support me. he says i am HIS daughter & he was & is responsible for me in every way. my daddy said he hit the JACKPOT when he became my daddy at age 2 1/2. we always laugh when people tell me & my daddy how alike we are-personality, looks, etc. (we look nothing alike- i am 5'1 with straight hair & he is 6'5 with curly hair) but he loves it when people tell us how alike we are. we just smile & agree.

ps-in our state (MS) back child support is void after a child is 7 years  over the age of 18 or 21, whichever age the judge ordered

hope this makes some sense

wendi
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