Lively Case Discussion #534 10/20 - 10/22/2006

[klaasend]

[Tylergal]

I've been wondering if the racial bias on Aruba will eventually be their undoing.  It seems likely that Deepak and Satish were not brought into the club unless they brought something valuable to the game.  Satish was most likely not at the crime scene that night.  Deepak most likely was there, but only for the initial attack.

The thing is that both of the Kalpoes know what happened, regardless of their extent of involvement.  What ironic justice for the island of Aruba if they tell all they know.  With one fell swoop, the Kalpoe brothers could bring down the Dutch aristocracy on Aruba and vindicate many wrongs done to the Aruban natives.  What delicious irony that would be!

We could only hope.

But they are of a "slave class" which Joran himself indicates when he lies and says that Natalee asked if they were his slaves.  She never said that.  Southeners NEVER say the word slave except in the context of intellectual discussion.  It is just something that we are as afraid to do as handle live rattle snakes.  We don't do it.  Natalee did not do it, but Joran did it.  He is the one who considered K2 his slaves.  He indicates they are of a lower class than him on many levels.  Where is his protection for them?  Not, he indicates they may have gone back and killed Natalee.  He believes that this will get him off because he knows he is a part of the Dutch protected class, the class who were the worst of the colonizers and the for the longest period of time, while they were preaching to us about slavery in the 1980s (which had not existed here for more than 100 years, look at their involvement in aparatheid.).  It was there.  You just could not see it for their verbosity proclaming Americans sa the great evil ones.

[AZLady]

No, the Kalpoe's aren't native Arubans.  And they are not stellar examples of defendable individuals, either.  They're own mother declares, "Everyone lies."  Undoubtedly, it would be easier to provide protection and a defense for minority individuals who lived blameless and honest lives.   Even the two security guards who were innocent have had trouble finding support on that island.  However, the Kalpoes are the only witnesses we have.  They are members of a minority race that are discriminated against on the island.  I'm only wondering out loud, so to speak, but the Kalpoes are the best chance for a witness to come forward who can actually tell what happened.

[Carnut]

yeah, but even though Deepak said the bit about PVDS he also directed the '15yrs' comment to JVDS.

Again I see that to mean Deepak thinks JVDS killed Nat and PVDS was just the body disposer.

Or does he know by now that Paulus did it but Joran has chosen to take the fall because he further goes on to say that he has done everything his father wanted him to and admonishes Deepak about having mentioned "Paulus" in this whole sordid affair.  Or did Joran kill her because she threatened to tell about Paulus?  Was he so protective of his father that he would kill her if she dared tell what would make the house of the son of a ditch fall like dominoes once the main domino is toppled.  Was he trying to protect his own home via protecting his father and taking the hit for him, was he trying to imply that if Antia had been home Paulus would not have been out slumming like a soulless teenager.  Or was he implying that Natalee would have never been seen by Paulus if Anita had been home, or was he just trying to blame Anita for his and his father's shortcomings by his own admission that they are so weak of moral character that they cannot function alone, or was he as most antisocial personalities, just blaming Anita because he needed someone to blame.

Actually anything is possible with all the lying and coverup going on.

My mind just likes things simple.

The most obvious thing is the coverup after seeing the statements with so much conflicting testemony and no followups or clarifications or even verifications, the coverup is so obvious.

Hopefully the DeVries show will help get some more folks questioning things.

[AZLady]

Has anyone heard of a time frame for the deVries show?  When is it supposed to be broadcast?  Or approximately when?

[SunFreak2]

yeah, but even though Deepak said the bit about PVDS he also directed the '15yrs' comment to JVDS.

Again I see that to mean Deepak thinks JVDS killed Nat and PVDS was just the body disposer.

Or does he know by now that Paulus did it but Joran has chosen to take the fall because he further goes on to say that he has done everything his father wanted him to and admonishes Deepak about having mentioned "Paulus" in this whole sordid affair.  Or did Joran kill her because she threatened to tell about Paulus?  Was he so protective of his father that he would kill her if she dared tell what would make the house of the son of a ditch fall like dominoes once the main domino is toppled.  Was he trying to protect his own home via protecting his father and taking the hit for him, was he trying to imply that if Antia had been home Paulus would not have been out slumming like a soulless teenager.  Or was he implying that Natalee would have never been seen by Paulus if Anita had been home, or was he just trying to blame Anita for his and his father's shortcomings by his own admission that they are so weak of moral character that they cannot function alone, or was he as most antisocial personalities, just blaming Anita because he needed someone to blame.

Let's remember that it is Joran who has been profiled by the FBI as a sociopath.  It is Joran who killed his dog.  I think that Paulus fostered & enabled the sickness that is Joran.  I think Joran is the one who killed Natalee in a fit of rage.  Paulus helped the sporter out of one more jam. I think it is as simple as that. Joran did it, Paulus covered it up.

[San]

Oh this is too funny.

[Carnut]

I'm also hoping something 'real' can be done about he aruban scumbags moving into Georgia.

[Lala'sMom]

San, I think you are exactly right about Satish asking of Deepak, "how's the girl?"  And I think another telling thing is when Deepak said he lied about Natalee, that she was not obtrusive, etc, that she was beautiful and friendly and danced so well.  They had been watching her.  They had taken note of everything about her.  Paulus wanted her and Deepak was the taxi and Joran was the vehicle who made it possible for Dearest Daddy, the fallen judge, whose aging body and lack of sexual prowess had now been turend to designs on Natalee.

Careful Tyler, you are delving into my sinister thoughts here.   I have thought for a long time that the picking out of a luscious fruit happened at that blackjack table or maybe even earlier in the week.  She was watched at CnC's.  All those girls were, Natalee just became the easiest to manipulate after all the drinks Joran bought her.

[Carnut]

Dang, conspiracy theorists, are the bane of mankind.

[Tylergal]

sunfreak, where did Joran get those inherent antisocial traits?  His father?  His mother?  Who else had a temper so bad in the family that he might have fashioned his own after?  Who was responsible for all their problems in the Netherlands?  Who was a failed judge and why?  We do not know why.  It could have been related to his violent tendencies.  We cannot get enough information from this press-free country, whose only oracle is Julia Renfro, who has the ability to build mountains of lies in one single TV program.

[Carnut]

heh, heh, bet that broke the lead in someone's pencil.

[Lala'sMom]

You have just insulted frogs and and fans of Sesame Street all over the world.  Shame on you!

[Tylergal]

Oh, Klaas, that is too funny.  Poor Kermit has donned the ugly head.

Carnut, suffice it to say those who do not see conspiracies are likely to be a victim of them as was Natalee.

[Carnut]

sunfreak, where did Joran get those inherent antisocial traits?  His father?  His mother?  Who else had a temper so bad in the family that he might have fashioned his own after?  Who was responsible for all their problems in the Netherlands?  Who was a failed judge and why?  We do not know why.  It could have been related to his violent tendencies.  We cannot get enough information from this press-free country, whose only oracle is Julia Renfro, who has the ability to build mountains of lies in one single TV program.

Did ya'll notice last night's interview that the talking head implied JVDS was back in the Netherlands and Julia didn't correct her?

[SunFreak2]

Oh this is too funny.

She needs a wart on her own nose.      

[AZLady]

San, I think you are exactly right about Satish asking of Deepak, "how's the girl?"  And I think another telling thing is when Deepak said he lied about Natalee, that she was not obtrusive, etc, that she was beautiful and friendly and danced so well.  They had been watching her.  They had taken note of everything about her.  Paulus wanted her and Deepak was the taxi and Joran was the vehicle who made it possible for Dearest Daddy, the fallen judge, whose aging body and lack of sexual prowess had now been turend to designs on Natalee.

Careful Tyler, you are delving into my sinister thoughts here.   I have thought for a long time that the picking out of a luscious fruit happened at that blackjack table or maybe even earlier in the week.  She was watched at CnC's.  All those girls were, Natalee just became the easiest to manipulate after all the drinks Joran bought her.

Well, Lala's, you are not the only one who believes Natalee was stalked, kidnapped, gang-raped, and murdered by this wolf pack.  Natalee was easily one of the most naive, innocent, and young-appearing of her group of friends.  She had a small, lithe body from her years of dancing and an Alice-in-Wonderland look about her with her big blue eyes and long blonde hair.  She also was ingenuous, trusting and genuinely kind.  These attributes shined through her modest manner and cheerful attitude.  Yes, she was noticed, targeted and stalked as she was the epitome of beauty to these lions.

[klaasend]

sunfreak, where did Joran get those inherent antisocial traits?  His father?  His mother?  Who else had a temper so bad in the family that he might have fashioned his own after?  Who was responsible for all their problems in the Netherlands?  Who was a failed judge and why?  We do not know why.  It could have been related to his violent tendencies.  We cannot get enough information from this press-free country, whose only oracle is Julia Renfro, who has the ability to build mountains of lies in one single TV program.

Did ya'll notice last night's interview that the talking head implied JVDS was back in the Netherlands and Julia didn't correct her?

Yeah, but that means zero. We still don't know if Joran is in Aruba or the Netherlands.

[Lala'sMom]

Dang, conspiracy theorists, are the bane of mankind.

Hey Carnut, how are you tonight?

[AZLady]

Dang, conspiracy theorists, are the bane of mankind.

Dang, simple minds are all around us.