Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09

San

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:59:55 PM

Quote from: Magnolia on February 21, 2009, 06:48:02 PM

Quote from: wreck on February 21, 2009, 06:39:26 PM

Quote from: wreck on February 21, 2009, 06:35:58 PM

Magnolia:

Quote

You are so right!! Posters who were good and diligent Natalee supporters, suddenly did an
about face to support Kyle and Caps and have done all in their power to disrupt this forum.
It is like they have been hypnotized.

I was thinking the same!

It begs the question that was asked earlier today: Is someone related to one of the players here influencing these people? That is why I asked people to consider when they started posting here at SM.

Most of those who posted mostly in the Shango thread went away....I guess to CnG.
I guess they believed so strongly in what Caps had to say that they could not see
the reality of how conflicted Caps posts were. I don't know the reasoning.

Whatever they know that keeps them going, they certainly aren't telling us.
It is a secret.

I am always suspicious of posters that come in with less than 100 posts now.

I have always wondered if a disinformant either (a) or (b) to stay under "radar of detection":
(a) post in softball forum(s) at SM(non-related to NH at first) to fluff post count / gain credibility through post count.
(b) post in various forums at SM (including NH). Blend in, drop tiny tid bits inconspicuously, then steer away undetected.

You are correct. JMO.


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Keepthefaith

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2009, 07:06:48 PM »

This may help you a little bit Tater!

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.

During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us. During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.

Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.

The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.

Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.

Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.

This was March 18, 2008. At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.

We later found that to be false.

Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.

We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.

This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.

During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.

We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.

Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.

When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.

One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.

That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.

He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.

We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.

At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.

Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.

Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.

Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.

Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.

Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

Regards,

Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!


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johan555

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hay welkom here !!!

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #162 on: February 21, 2009, 07:09:15 PM »

Thailand - Bangkok- Saturday 24-01.

on RTL Boulevard


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San

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #163 on: February 21, 2009, 07:09:42 PM »

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 07:05:31 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

J2K administer date-rape drug...
Sexual (and physical) assault of Natalee occurs...
Natalee expires at hands of J2K (and others?)...
JVDS (2K) panic and call PVDS...
PVDS contacts JanVDS...
JanVDS advises / obstructs / abets for PVDS...
Outside law enforcement agencies are kept out of Aruba...
The elite of the island (illegal money schemes/activities) band together...
Tourism Board (synonymous with ALE) protects enabling interests...
Disinformants / Diversions employed by Aruba...
Persistence and Aruban Govt strike a (brokered) deal...
"Map in our waters" in exchange for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" near trap...
Crew members / owners cash in...Kyle almost ruins it for them...
Aruba owns and possesses the final piece of evidence...
They will continue to Lie and Deny to the End...

Am I close??

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

Years and years of his experience was determined to be a liability...

Therefore, a diversion was used to temporarily remove him so and avoid detection...
If that diversion was unsuccessful, another would have been readily available as PlanB to execute...

You are on a roll. They had all their plans in place.


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Keepthefaith

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2009, 07:10:47 PM »

Quote from: San on February 21, 2009, 07:09:42 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 07:05:31 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

Years and years of his experience was determined to be a liability...

Therefore, a diversion was used to temporarily remove him so and avoid detection...
If that diversion was unsuccessful, another would have been readily available as PlanB to execute...

You are on a roll. They had all their plans in place.

Very sad!


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BUCKSHOT

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #165 on: February 21, 2009, 07:11:04 PM »

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

"Persistence and Aruban Govt strike a (brokered) deal...
"Map in our waters" in exchange for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" near trap...
Crew members / owners cash in...Kyle almost ruins it for them..."

Who owns the Persistence?I'm just trying to understand this.Mostly lurk so....

I do not know personally. I am sure someone here knows that answer.
Regardless of owner(of Persistence), big cheeses tied to the mapping project were levied access to Aruban waters in exchange for concealment of their number one priority, taking possession of a critical (and maybe final) piece of evidence.

My question: why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny.


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klaasend

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #166 on: February 21, 2009, 07:13:07 PM »

Quote from: johan555 on February 21, 2009, 07:09:15 PM

Thailand - Bangkok- Saturday 24-01.

on RTL Boulevard

Thanks Johan. I already posted these pics back on 2/16, we discussed how Joran is with another blonde girl.


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BUCKSHOT

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #167 on: February 21, 2009, 07:13:45 PM »

Quote from: klaasend on February 21, 2009, 07:13:07 PM

Quote from: johan555 on February 21, 2009, 07:09:15 PM

Thailand - Bangkok- Saturday 24-01.

on RTL Boulevard

Thanks Johan. I already posted these pics back on 2/16, we discussed how Joran is with another blonde girl.


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Keepthefaith

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #168 on: February 21, 2009, 07:14:32 PM »

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 07:11:04 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

Who would a thought,after a few years,that those waters would have been searched and Natalee would have been potentially found?Me personally.I would have bet against it everyday.


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Lifesong

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2009, 07:17:48 PM »

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

To be fair, I do believe it is important we acknowledge that we have no actual proof whatsoever that there was any deal between Schaefer/Silvetti and any branch of the Aruban Gov't or members of the Aruban business community.

We do have circumstances that, on the surface, simply do not make sense.

We do have conflicting information given privately by Kyle Kingman, as opposed to what he said publicly on behalf of the search team.

We do have photographic evidence that was never turned over to the FBI by anyone associated with the Persistence search.

We do have questionable ethical business practices on record by Schaefer.

But as of yet, we have no proof of any deal. None.

We do want to know if there was one.

If there wasn't, these circumstances and information that "can't be talked about", should be explained truthfully.

Remember, donations were given in good faith.


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BUCKSHOT

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #170 on: February 21, 2009, 07:17:58 PM »

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:14:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 07:11:04 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

Who would a thought,after a few years,that those waters would have been searched and Natalee would have been potentially found?Me personally.I would have bet against it everyday.

Upon knowledge of whereabouts, lookouts were probably employed...
Probably got the radar working again, too.


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Tater

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #171 on: February 21, 2009, 07:21:17 PM »

Thankyou Faith...I remember Kyle posting here and I expressing my disdain about the abrupt departure but was basically shot down by others. A day or two before the departure there was a call out for more funding and then suddenly they left.We couldn't understand that.I also remember Kyle stating that he saw the Arubans over the dive site from shore days after the cage had been found.So I guess the reasoning now is that yes it was Natalee's remains in that cage?Is that what ya'll are thinking?


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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #172 on: February 21, 2009, 07:22:38 PM »

Quote from: Lifesong on February 21, 2009, 07:17:48 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:04:56 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:01:40 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 06:54:32 PM

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 06:47:48 PM

That's pretty good BuckShot!

So where does this put Tim Miller?

Tim Miller was not aboard The Persistence on the Jan 7th Dive when the ALE dove on the cage/Trap by themselves!

To be fair, I do believe it is important we acknowledge that we have no actual proof whatsoever that there was any deal between Schaefer/Silvetti and any branch of the Aruban Gov't or members of the Aruban business community.

We do have circumstances that, on the surface, simply do not make sense.

We do have conflicting information given privately by Kyle Kingman, as opposed to what he said publicly on behalf of the search team.

We do have photographic evidence that was never turned over to the FBI by anyone associated with the Persistence search.

We do have questionable ethical business practices on record by Schaefer.

But as of yet, we have no proof of any deal. None.

We do want to know if there was one.

If there wasn't, these circumstances and information that "can't be talked about", should be explained truthfully.

Remember, donations were given in good faith.

In different (unrelated) concealed activities, simply as a parallel for argument sake...
Drug dealers do not give recipts and file it on their taxes...

Therefore, unexplainable actions and supporting circumstantial facts may lead to the deduction that, if a deal were made, it would not be published online for public viewing. Only those who sttod to gain from the deal knew about it.


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Keepthefaith

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #173 on: February 21, 2009, 07:25:45 PM »

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:21:17 PM

Potentially yes!We'll never know though.Silvetti was asking for donations up until April 3rd, 2008.About a month after leaving Aruba IIRC.Feel free to ask questions.Tamikosmom should give us a post with all of Kyle's words and you can read them and draw your own conclusions.Janet.Please post Kyle's words....TIA


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Lifesong

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #174 on: February 21, 2009, 07:33:37 PM »

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on February 21, 2009, 07:22:38 PM

Quote from: Lifesong on February 21, 2009, 07:17:48 PM

To be fair, I do believe it is important we acknowledge that we have no actual proof whatsoever that there was any deal between Schaefer/Silvetti and any branch of the Aruban Gov't or members of the Aruban business community.

We do have circumstances that, on the surface, simply do not make sense.

We do have conflicting information given privately by Kyle Kingman, as opposed to what he said publicly on behalf of the search team.

We do have photographic evidence that was never turned over to the FBI by anyone associated with the Persistence search.

We do have questionable ethical business practices on record by Schaefer.

But as of yet, we have no proof of any deal. None.

We do want to know if there was one.

If there wasn't, these circumstances and information that "can't be talked about", should be explained truthfully.

Remember, donations were given in good faith.

Precisely, Buckshot.

Which is why it seems to me that if our research is upsetting anyone, the best recourse would be the truth.

But..."they can't talk about it right now", which might've worked had we not learned that they were keeping information from the FBI in an attempt to profit off of that information.

So...why can't they talk about it?

04/03/2008
John Silvetti: "I will answer whatever questions that I can only that some things can not be revealed at this time."


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BUCKSHOT

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #175 on: February 21, 2009, 07:36:35 PM »

To be fair, I do believe it is important we acknowledge that we have no actual proof whatsoever that there was any deal between Schaefer/Silvetti and any branch of the Aruban Gov't or members of the Aruban business community.
(this type of deal is not published online)

We do have circumstances that, on the surface, simply do not make sense. (Agreed)

We do have conflicting information given privately by Kyle Kingman, as opposed to what he said publicly on behalf of the search team. (He has been extended an offer to clarify himself many, many times)

We do have photographic evidence that was never turned over to the FBI by anyone associated with the Persistence search. (Wonder why Aruba, Prosecutor Mos have never addressed this...)

We do have questionable ethical business practices on record by Schaefer. (Agreed)

But as of yet, we have no proof of any deal. None. (The proof will be hiiden and known by only a handful. Not to mention they have the sanctuary and protection of a nation, known for illegal special interests.)

We do want to know if there was one. (Pretty please will not reveal the deal)

If there wasn't, these circumstances and information that "can't be talked about", should be explained truthfully.
(Good luck with that. Maybe Arlene Schippers could explain that for us. Confidentiality, Might "jeopardize the investigation")

Remember, donations were given in good faith. (Kindness was abused. Part of the scam)

No offense, but my comments are in red.


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Tater

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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #176 on: February 21, 2009, 07:36:57 PM »

Quote from: Keepthefaith on February 21, 2009, 07:25:45 PM

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2009, 07:21:17 PM

I always thought it was Natalee but I never saw the picture of the denim material in the cage until recently here.It pretty much solidifies it for me.The sneaker is compelling too..It really upsets me for Tim..A man that does whatever he can to help others is bamboozled at every turn it seems.It's so hard to heal from something this tragic when it never ends.One fine day,justice will be served when they finally reap the whirlwind..Not a day goes by all these years later that I don't think of Beth and Dave and do my best to hold them up in my prayers.This old world is a cesspool... Sad


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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #177 on: February 21, 2009, 07:37:32 PM »

Hi Tater Tot

The following are posts which Kyle Kingman submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' site ... posts which Kermit brought over and posted on the SM forum with the permission of Beth Holloway.

No theory necessary ... these posts tell a story ... a story that implies that John Silvetti participated with the Arubans in the finale to the great Aruban coverup.

Please read carefully.

Janet

________

THE PERSISTENCE DECEPTION

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

John Silvetti

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days. (05/08/08)

Kyle: He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that. (06/10/08)

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Fabric - Tarp - Vertibre - Skull

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle: … John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle: I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains.

Kyle: … Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

++++++

Kyle Kingman’s Summary

Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day. I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me. It's not easy. I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown

dottie

Monkey Junky Jr.

Offline

Posts: 965

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #178 on: February 21, 2009, 07:39:56 PM »

I have been reading along trying to figure out what was going on in aruba and it has ben very confusing. I think I finally understand what may have happened. My question now is what was the response by the FBI after this information was presented to them?


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Tamikosmom

Monkey Mega Star

Offline

Posts: 37229

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -

« Reply #179 on: February 21, 2009, 07:42:58 PM »

Tater

Initially Kyle Kingman was very troubled concerning what he observed on board the Persistence in regards to the recovery process. I truly believe that Kyle felt forced into an intiminated silence by John Silvetti.

It appears that sending the ROV images to the FBI and ... requesting the Natalee's Freebirds to assist in exposing the John Silvetti deception to the FBI/Beth Holloway through a document ... Kyle Kingman was attempting to do what was right. He was taking the high road.

However ... at some point in time he began to backtrack. Could it have been a threatened lawsuit but Silvetti/Schaefer? Could it have been those Network deals? Could it have been incentives were offered in regards to furthering his career with John Silvetti?

Janet

_________

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


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Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum > Natalee Holloway > LCD Archive > Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

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