Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[Lifesong]

Hey guys,

KTF - I bumped the post about the meeting because I'm curious about it too.



I have a question for any of those Silvetti/Kingman supporters, Janet.  I hope they will answer.

I hope they can back up John Silvetti's own words:

What one single piece of information, in who's confession, was the expansion of the search area based upon?

It may have been necessary to keep such a detail secret a year ago.  There's just no justification for keeping it secret now.

What one single piece of information, in who's confession, was the expansion of the search area based upon?






01/25/2008
Special Notice:
By John Silvetti – “The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.  Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area.”

Months later [see 04/03/2008], John Silvetti comments further on the expansion of the search area:  “The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.”

[klaasend]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

[Keepthefaith]

Hey guys,

KTF - I bumped the post about the meeting because I'm curious about it too.



I have a question for any of those Silvetti/Kingman supporters, Janet.  I hope they will answer.

I hope they can back up John Silvetti's own words:

What one single piece of information, in who's confession, was the expansion of the search area based upon?

It may have been necessary to keep such a detail secret a year ago.  There's just no justification for keeping it secret now.

What one single piece of information, in who's confession, was the expansion of the search area based upon?






01/25/2008
Special Notice:
By John Silvetti – “The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.  Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area.”

Months later [see 04/03/2008], John Silvetti comments further on the expansion of the search area:  “The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.”

Great question LifeSong.Maybe Kermit will come on and help us keep rolling.I hope you get what you ask for in terms of the Kingman/Silvetti supporter's but for some reason i don't think you'll get what your looking for but i will KEEPTHEFAITH!

[Magnolia]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

[Keepthefaith]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

So.What i would like to know in chronological order of the Joran/Patrick confession tape,who was informed and at what time?We could put that into Lifesongs timeline!

[Magnolia]

Isn't there something from Kyle about Dolph Richardson telling them to expand the ssearch?

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't there something from Kyle about Dolph Richardson telling them to expand the ssearch?

Kyle: "Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

[Magnolia]

Isn't there something from Kyle about Dolph Richardson telling them to expand the ssearch?

Kyle: "Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Thanks, KTF!!

[Lifesong]

Update 3 is posted.  I've had to break it into 2 parts.

Part 1 is here.

Part 2 is here.

 

[Keepthefaith]

Isn't there something from Kyle about Dolph Richardson telling them to expand the ssearch?

Kyle: "Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Thanks, KTF!!

It would be interesting to nail down the date that Richardson said that!

[Lifesong]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

I'm sure it's Joran's confession to Patrick.  I have no doubt of that.

The same confession that wasn't good enough for a re-arrest, held a specific piece of information credible enough to increase the search grid by 200% with no concern for the cost.

I want to know what that one piece of information was.

I do not believe it.

[Keepthefaith]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

I'm sure it's Joran's confession to Patrick.  I have no doubt of that.

The same confession that wasn't good enough for a re-arrest, held a specific piece of information credible enough to increase the search grid by 200% with no concern for the cost.

I want to know what that one piece of information was.

I do not believe it.

Neither do I!

[Keepthefaith]

12/30/2008 – NEW
It is revealed that The Persistence search team had a choice to have a representative of the FBI onboard to retain their initially granted role of observing.  Instead they had a filmcrew onboard. 


 

[Tamikosmom]

12/30/2008 – NEW
It is revealed that The Persistence search team had a choice to have a representative of the FBI onboard to retain their initially granted role of observing.  Instead they had a filmcrew onboard. 


 

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #586 on: December 30, 2008, 09:37:57 PM »

what lou posted is actually incorrect.  The DID have a choice.  A representative from the FBI could have been aboard the Persistence to retain their initially granted "*******" role in this investigation- instead, the Persistence had a film crew aboard.  Who they (John Silvetti) then proceeded to remove from the boat before the Dec 30 dive, along with Tim Miller.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603761#msg603761

[Tamikosmom]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

I'm sure it's Joran's confession to Patrick.  I have no doubt of that.

The same confession that wasn't good enough for a re-arrest, held a specific piece of information credible enough to increase the search grid by 200% with no concern for the cost.

I want to know what that one piece of information was.

I do not believe it.

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not

+++++

[Red]

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

[klaasend]

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

Thanks Red, great to hear!

[texasmom]

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

Hi Red, and thanks!     

[San]

Thanks Red.

This will be in my signature line "There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world."

[snoopy]

Thank you Red.