Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[Lifesong]

It is comforting to read Red's rant.

Kermit and the monkeys have been bashed and lied about so much that it is
disheartening.  Kermit is tough to have taken so much abuse.  Some days it
has been hard to take all of the unpleasant post from people who were once
united in the same effort to bring Natalee home.

Red's post made me feel that we have backup.....always a good feeling and
it is good to know that Beth still stands with the Monkeys.

All of Natalee's Freebirds are heros, Magnolia.  We are grateful to all of you.

Red, I'm sure you know we would never want to let you down.  We honor your efforts with our own.

Kermit, integrity is always my favorite.  Thank you.

[billb's daughter]

In all seriousness..Red's comments tells me that SM IS making a difference keeping Natalee's case alive after 3 yrs, 9 months...Because each of us believe that Natalee/Beth/Dave and family were wronged by aruba......WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT....we ARE NOT going away.....

I agree, billb.  We do not have to take it, and we can just do what we do.  We ask questions,seek answers and want to bring justice. 

(and my post last night was not directed to you and it may have been someone else who prompted it.  It was for all). ...iirc, sports came into the mix last night, but we all tend to include personal things occasionally into our posts.

Thanks 2NJSons...
I felt bad contributing to OT...but I get caught up in the moment...
It's all good!.
Great post by Red letting us know we are on track for Justice for Natalee...

[2NJSons_Mom]

In all seriousness..Red's comments tells me that SM IS making a difference keeping Natalee's case alive after 3 yrs, 9 months...Because each of us believe that Natalee/Beth/Dave and family were wronged by aruba......WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT....we ARE NOT going away.....

I agree, billb.  We do not have to take it, and we can just do what we do.  We ask questions,seek answers and want to bring justice. 

(and my post last night was not directed to you and it may have been someone else who prompted it.  It was for all). ...iirc, sports came into the mix last night, but we all tend to include personal things occasionally into our posts.

Thanks 2NJSons...
I felt bad contributing to OT...but I get caught up in the moment...
It's all good!.
Great post by Red letting us know we are on track for Justice for Natalee...

Yes, it's all good, billb.  Love your contributions.  Yes, Red's post keeps us in a positive motion for that justice.     

[wreck]

Thank you, Red.  You should never have had to ask.

 

On we go...

No I shouldn't; however, sadly some need to see the truth rather than the bs fabrications and misrepresentations that some wish to put out there.

SM was the very first blog discussing this case for obvious reasons. Namely my past associations with Aruba and people in Aruba.

I was the first to go to Aruba and search for Natalee, digging side by side Dave Holloway in the landfill. Long before it became en vogue for going to Aruba, playing Sam Spade to get reward money for finding NH, there was SM. Long before deals were made with Date Line, there was Red discussing the daily landfill search on Court TV.

Long before there was a water search, there was a land search that was done with all the persistence in the world trying to find Natalee on Aruba. I would love to paint a rosy, cheery picture that everyone felt good after the search like what was done when the Persistence left Aruba ... but I cannot and will not.

Frankly, after nearly 2 weeks of searching for Natalee with the pond searches, digging in the landfill and scouring Aruba with no traces of Natalee and leaving Aruba ... I personally felt terrible. I thought so many times we had found her, like when we searched the VDS's neighbors property. There is nothing worse in the world than not accomplishing one's goal. There is no amount of trying your best or putting your best effort forward that rids one of that feeling. Just trying in my book does not cut it, success is defined by meeting one's goals, not just making an effort, That is why there is still unfinished business when it come to Natalee.

The goal has always been to bring Natalee home and provide Justice for Natalee. Not just make an effort. Not do things because you make yourself feel better. Or do things because it brings attention upon yourself and say look at me.

For all the stupid and ignorant comments I have read since May 2005 in that respect, those that make such uninformed comments have not a clue. You people have no idea what makes me tick and what makes the many good hearted people at SM tick. So you should really stop trying to think you do.

For those of you that continue with the ignorance of Red writing a book ... grow up. Maybe you can provide me with a title as well. Some of the jealousy and haters on the internet are really old and tired. We have dealt with this from near the beginning of this case when Aruba actually paid people to cause havoc.

The point in many respects was to also get out the message to people who did not follow the case that Natalee was still missing and that Aruba has still done nothing. It was not to selfishly preach to the choir or have info on private or member only sites. What the hell is the point in that? What purpose does that serve?

There is a reason why SM posts on numerous stories other than just crime or missing persons. That is so that people who do not normally follow such stories also can read about these cases. Its called getting the story out to eyes that are not familiar with the facts at hand. There is a reason why SM has over at present almost 16.5 million visitors and 49.5 million page views since 2005.  There is a reason why we have a separate Missing Persons site, Radio Show and now True Crime blog.

The vision of SM is to have important stories seen and heard by as many people as possible. We believe in developing relationships with victims of crime, Law Enforcement and Search Teams. The vision of SM to to help victims of crime by overtly by communication and behind the scenes.

One would think that if people really were for Natalee Holloway and Natalee's family that the petty jealousies would be put aside for the sake of the family. People really need to look in the mirror and look internally at their souls and ask themselves why they are doing things.

Personally, I could care less what other blogs do ... they have their own site owners. Barring certain internet courtesy's, they do as they wish as that is their right. No one has to read at them if you do not like what they have to say. The same holds true here. It fascinates me that people actually read a site that they cannot stand and then post about it elsewhere. We know what goes on other sites and what is said. At the so-called private sites. Please, there is nothing private on the web. Frankly, who has time for hate when the point is to provide help.

There are few complete truths in life; however, one of them is that no one will agree on everything. That is why there is a little thing called free speech. Some where, some place out there, water will find its own level and everyone on the internet will find there own home. There is freedom of speech; however, there is no freedom that people have to listen or agree with you.

Scared Monkeys always has been a victims rights blog/forum and dedicated to making a difference. People's hate and petty jealousies are not going to stop that. The site has been read by millions and will continue to be read by millions more.

Very few places exist where individuals comments are read by so many.

We have had Natalee's family support from the beginning and will continue to do so. No one knows loss more than Beth Holloway and very few people have had the opportunity to see that sadness up close and person as I have. When it occurs its nearly brings me to tears; however, then it makes me even stronger to finish the job and continue fighting for the family.

That's what this is about to all the misguided individuals out there. Getting results for victims. Those that would want to stop such an effort may want to question why they claim to be for the family.

Sorry for the rant, but felt it was needed.

Okay, now I am only 2 pages behind! WOW! Thank-you, RED!

[Keepthefaith]

   I see only one guest right now.  Guess the movie is over for some. 

I'm going to say g'nite.  See you all later. 

Carry on.

Goodnight 2nj!

[hotping]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

[Keepthefaith]

In all seriousness..Red's comments tells me that SM IS making a difference keeping Natalee's case alive after 3 yrs, 9 months...Because each of us believe that Natalee/Beth/Dave and family were wronged by aruba......WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT....we ARE NOT going away.....

I agree, billb.  We do not have to take it, and we can just do what we do.  We ask questions,seek answers and want to bring justice. 

(and my post last night was not directed to you and it may have been someone else who prompted it.  It was for all). ...iirc, sports came into the mix last night, but we all tend to include personal things occasionally into our posts.

Thanks 2NJSons...
I felt bad contributing to OT...but I get caught up in the moment...
It's all good!.
Great post by Red letting us know we are on track for Justice for Natalee...

Just went back and re-read BillB.I believe it was my fault so i do apologize for taking you off topic!

[BUCKSHOT]

I've asked Red to see if he can find out from Tim Miller if they are really going back to Aruba for another ocean search. 

I've also asked Red to find out from Tim Miller if he was on or off the Persistence on January 7, 2008.

According to Kyle Kingman ... Tim was not on board the Persistence after January 1, 2008.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


The Search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI. For the Holloways, though, another wild ride began.

This bizarre story originated in the central American nation of Nicaragua.

It happened last month, when Natalee’s father Dave received a message from a man who called himself Marcos. He said he had important information about where they could find Natalee's body.

Dave Holloway: He said, "I’d done some wrongs in my past," and he said, "This is my way of making all of my wrongs and all of my sins and doing something right."

Dave was skeptical, but the phone and e-mail messages continued.

In them was a wild tale involving drug runners who said that on the night Natalee disappeared someone had paid them to take her body and dump it at sea.

They agreed but instead they took her remains with them to Nicaragua and hid them on a remote strip of the Atlantic coast.

Dave Holloway: It was a little bit far-fetched for me.

Chris Hansen: What did he want in return?

Dave Holloway: He told us he didn't want anything. And that is what part I started believing in this guy. I said we've got a reward out here.

In January, Dave Holloway asked Tim Miller to head to Nicaragua to arrange for a meeting...and to Miller's surprise, Marcos showed up

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

?????? Marcos showed up? I thought he never posted...What came of the meeting? Nada? Any details?

[BUCKSHOT]

Janet - that's why I want Tim Miller to answer if he was on board or not.  I want verification from Tim.

Can this conversation by facilitated?

[Keepthefaith]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

I'm with you in prayers HotPing!

[Magnolia]

I've asked Red to see if he can find out from Tim Miller if they are really going back to Aruba for another ocean search. 

I've also asked Red to find out from Tim Miller if he was on or off the Persistence on January 7, 2008.

According to Kyle Kingman ... Tim was not on board the Persistence after January 1, 2008.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle:   John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle:   He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle:   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


The Search for Natalee Holloway
TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI. For the Holloways, though, another wild ride began.

This bizarre story originated in the central American nation of Nicaragua.

It happened last month, when Natalee’s father Dave received a message from a man who called himself Marcos. He said he had important information about where they could find Natalee's body.

Dave Holloway: He said, "I’d done some wrongs in my past," and he said, "This is my way of making all of my wrongs and all of my sins and doing something right."

Dave was skeptical, but the phone and e-mail messages continued.

In them was a wild tale involving drug runners who said that on the night Natalee disappeared someone had paid them to take her body and dump it at sea.

They agreed but instead they took her remains with them to Nicaragua and hid them on a remote strip of the Atlantic coast.

Dave Holloway: It was a little bit far-fetched for me.

Chris Hansen: What did he want in return?

Dave Holloway: He told us he didn't want anything. And that is what part I started believing in this guy. I said we've got a reward out here.

In January, Dave Holloway asked Tim Miller to head to Nicaragua to arrange for a meeting...and to Miller's surprise, Marcos showed up

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

?????? Marcos showed up? I thought he never posted...What came of the meeting? Nada? Any details?

It was all in the Dateline Show.  Marcos showed up for one or two meetings.  It is even
on film.  Then he disappeared when he was suppose to take them to Natalee's body.

[wreck]

I know most of us THINK we are on the right track -- it is comforting to have a few encouraging words from Red! 

[billb's daughter]

In all seriousness..Red's comments tells me that SM IS making a difference keeping Natalee's case alive after 3 yrs, 9 months...Because each of us believe that Natalee/Beth/Dave and family were wronged by aruba......WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT....we ARE NOT going away.....

I agree, billb.  We do not have to take it, and we can just do what we do.  We ask questions,seek answers and want to bring justice. 

(and my post last night was not directed to you and it may have been someone else who prompted it.  It was for all). ...iirc, sports came into the mix last night, but we all tend to include personal things occasionally into our posts.

Thanks 2NJSons...
I felt bad contributing to OT...but I get caught up in the moment...
It's all good!.
Great post by Red letting us know we are on track for Justice for Natalee...

Just went back and re-read BillB.I believe it was my fault so i do apologize for taking you off topic!

KTF...I read here everyday..I am in awe with what goes on here with the investigating skills of so many...all looking for Justice for Natalee.....
I only post late at night as I don't want to disrupt the flow...
I do feel a connection with SM because I see the injustice with Natalee's case...and I so hope and pray that day will come for Natalee.....
I enjoy the tit for tat with you, TM, and many others.....I always enjoyed ROBOTS comments, still look forward to Janet's posts (she tends to keep everyone grounded)....Kermit, Jen, all the Freebirds that were so kind to bring there story to SM....and of course Red for the opportunity allowing us all to be involved...Klaasend and all the wonderful mods...
Red really summed it up well this evening.....

[Magnolia]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

I wish you luck, Hotping. 
Soliciting funds through the mail under false pretenses is mail fraud....I think.

[hotping]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

I'm with you in prayers HotPing!

Thanks KTF! 

[klaasend]

Janet - that's why I want Tim Miller to answer if he was on board or not.  I want verification from Tim.

Can this conversation by facilitated?

Buckshot - Red indicated to me he was going to try and contact Tim and ask him if there is an upcoming Aruba trip.  I asked him while he was at it to find out if Tim Miller was on the Persistence when the Aruban divers dove on the trap on January 7, 2008.  Hopefully Tim won't be too busy and Red can find out for us.

[Keepthefaith]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

I wish you luck, Hotping. 
Soliciting funds through the mail under false pretenses is mail fraud....I think.

It is a Felony,as well as a FEDERAL offense if i'm not mistaken!Monkey's?

[hotping]

Mere...I've got a plan to find out about that PO Box in Kemah....I'll let You All know tomorrow if it works out.....Wish Me Luck! TIA 

My plan was to drive over and check out a few places....lol....bet yours is better...Mere

Well I used to live close enough to drive over but not any longer so I will have to use other means but all I can do is try.....like I said wish me luck.....

I wish you luck, Hotping. 
Soliciting funds through the mail under false pretenses is mail fraud....I think.

Thank You Magnolia! Yep Mail Fraud....Not a Good Thing to be doing! 

[wreck]

After almost 3 3/4 years -- I am more energized as ever! 

[Keepthefaith]

In all seriousness..Red's comments tells me that SM IS making a difference keeping Natalee's case alive after 3 yrs, 9 months...Because each of us believe that Natalee/Beth/Dave and family were wronged by aruba......WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT....we ARE NOT going away.....

I agree, billb.  We do not have to take it, and we can just do what we do.  We ask questions,seek answers and want to bring justice. 

(and my post last night was not directed to you and it may have been someone else who prompted it.  It was for all). ...iirc, sports came into the mix last night, but we all tend to include personal things occasionally into our posts.

Thanks 2NJSons...
I felt bad contributing to OT...but I get caught up in the moment...
It's all good!.
Great post by Red letting us know we are on track for Justice for Natalee...

Just went back and re-read BillB.I believe it was my fault so i do apologize for taking you off topic!

KTF...I read here everyday..I am in awe with what goes on here with the investigating skills of so many...all looking for Justice for Natalee.....
I only post late at night as I don't want to disrupt the flow...
I do feel a connection with SM because I see the injustice with Natalee's case...and I so hope and pray that day will come for Natalee.....
I enjoy the tit for tat with you, TM, and many others.....I always enjoyed ROBOTS comments, still look forward to Janet's posts (she tends to keep everyone grounded)....Kermit, Jen, all the Freebirds that were so kind to bring there story to SM....and of course Red for the opportunity allowing us all to be involved...Klaasend and all the wonderful mods...
Red really summed it up well this evening.....

The feelings are likewise BillB.Everybody does their part to keep this train headin down the tracks!Other's do there's to try and get the train of the tracks but,the Conductor and his staff are extrordinary!