Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[Tamikosmom]

Texasmom ... it has been almost four years.  Sometimes ... I get so discouraged.

I do not believe that justice is going to come from a Dutch/Aruban court but ... if the Persistence deception can be exposed ... maybe Natalee Holloway's family could be afforded a measure of closure.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.


'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' for July 1
updated 7:47 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

[Tamikosmom]

hotping, wreck, Lifesong and BUCKSHOT

Good Night

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Goodnight, Janet.  Have a good night.

[Lifesong]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

[Lifesong]

hotping, wreck, Lifesong and BUCKSHOT

Good Night

Janet

Good Night, Janet.  God Bless.

[hotping]

hotping, wreck, Lifesong and BUCKSHOT

Good Night

Janet

Good Night Janet! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

My memory is telling me it was filmed in the fall of 2007 or sometime before the year's end.  I am not certain, though.

[Lifesong]

Lifesong - I thought it might have been Joran's confession to Patrick.

I thought that might be it too, Klaas.  The timing is right.

So.What i would like to know in chronological order of the Joran/Patrick confession tape,who was informed and at what time?We could put that into Lifesongs timeline!

KTF - I was thinking the same thing & will add all of those dates.  I'm cleaning up links/sourcing and adding photos right now... 

[Magnolia]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

 I am not positive but I remember it being said that they were in the middle of filming the Range Rover
tapes and Mos had Joran and the Kalpoes rearrested.  That was the 29th or 30th of Nov, 2007.

That was one reason that Joran couldn't be jailed after the Range Rover confession aired

[Magnolia]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

 I am not positive but I remember it being said that they were in the middle of filming the Range Rover
tapes and Mos had Joran and the Kalpoes rearrested.  That was the 29th or 30th of Nov, 2007.

That was one reason that Joran couldn't be jailed after the Range Rover confession aired

I will add that it had 'leaked' that someone in NL had been secretly recording Joran.
I think it was Lazlo at RU that leaked that.
I think Mos had a card up his sleeve when he had the three rearrested.

[Keepthefaith]

                                JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                   GOODNIGHT AND GOD BLESS

                                            KEEPTHEFAITH

[Lifesong]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

 I am not positive but I remember it being said that they were in the middle of filming the Range Rover
tapes and Mos had Joran and the Kalpoes rearrested.  That was the 29th or 30th of Nov, 2007.

That was one reason that Joran couldn't be jailed after the Range Rover confession aired

I will add that it had 'leaked' that someone in NL had been secretly recording Joran.
I think it was Lazlo at RU that leaked that.
I think Mos had a card up his sleeve when he had the three rearrested.

Absolutely - that was a Hinky deal for sure!  I want to see that down on paper too and see how it lines up.

As I've been working tonight I got to thinking that probably Tim Trahan is the worst diver you could ever want to hire for anything.  He had a pretty important job on December 30th and it sounds like he completely choked.  The official story is he was out of dive time (which I'm assuming has to do with air supply/rate of ascent) and couldn't see anything because the sediment was disturbed. 

That's just incredibly unreliable.  He was a Project Manager according to Kyle's blog.  But, evidently he just disappeared for the rest of the search, leaving the poor search crew with no divers at all and unable to do anything about only having ALE divers. 

If Tim Trahan is that unreliable when counted on in a critical situation and on a critical project, then I can't imagine he could be recommended for other diving assignments for paying customers.

 

    

[Lifesong]

Kermit

WHAT WAS JOHN SILVETTI REALLY AFTER?

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount. So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world. The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after.  It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found herI don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4371.msg625934#msg625934

Kyle:After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains


I asked Jug about Schaeffer...he is the oil guy. He was the one that provided the cash to get down there. Silvetti knew he would get more business from Schaeffer if he mapped....while they were looking...the ocean floor. All the crew was asked to do was look for Natalee or anything suspicious as in small things like a cage or bones or whatever.
They do a large mapping process while they are looking for the details. Schaeffer would use the large mapping of the general layout of the ocean floor to further look for oil[/u]...etc...while they looked for Natalee too.
Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer


Kyle said: June 29, 2008: I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours."


KEEPTHEFAITH

Soliciting MONEY almost a month after you've left the waters of ARUBA???Where is the MONEY????

Hmmmm.

I thought Tim Miller contacted Schaefer who called Dave Holloway and recruited Silvetti. 

But this is Lala's telling the Leak that according to Jug, Silvetti offered to look for Natalee and then brought in Schaefer?  Is that right?

I think that could matter, I just don't know if its true.

http://www.iberianet.com/articles/2007/11/29/news/news/news00.txt

From here to Aruba

BY JEFF MOORE, THE DAILY IBERIAN
Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:37 PM CST

An expedition to search the waters off Aruba for the remains of missing Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway leaves today from the Port of Iberia.

The research vessel Persistence, owned by the Lafayette-based Silvetti Group, will make the 10-day journey to the island. A 20- to 25-man crew will spend at least two weeks surveying the sea floor for Holloway, who has been missing since May 30, 2005.

Holloway, 18, was last seen leaving a bar with three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation.

Last week, police re-arrested the three men, prompting her father to re-launch the search in deep waters.


John Silvetti said his company became involved in the search after he was contacted by Louis Schaefer, chairman of Superior Offshore International. Schaefer had been approached by Texas Equusearch, a non-profit organization that has been searching for Holloway for more than two years.

Schaefer asked Silvetti if he could provide the survey personnel and the geophysical equipment required for the search. After spending a weekend with Schaefer and Pam and Dave Holloway, Silvetti agreed.

“It ripped my heart out to hear them say that right now all they’re looking for is to have a funeral in Alabama,” Silvetti said. “What do you say to someone like that?”

Silvetti agreed to provide his equipment and primary survey vessel at well below cost, with Schaefer covering all out-of-pocket expenses. Silvetti said his staff volunteered its services for the project as well.

“They said ‘You don’t even have to pay me. I just want to help,’” Silvetti said. “That just tells me we’ve got the right people on board.”

Marc Broussard, project manager for the Silvetti Group, said the company normally performs surveys looking for oil rigs and downed helicopters. Now, it will be using its high-resolution SONAR equipment to look for a body.

To upgrade its systems for the terrain in Aruba, Broussard said the Silvetti Group looked to its vendors, two of which are based in New Iberia.

Seatronics, located at the Port of Iberia, agreed to donate some of its high-tech electronic equipment to scan the ocean floor.

“I told (Silvetti) any opportunity that we had to go in on such a good cause, we would go in on it,” said Erik McGuire, vice president of Seatronics Inc.

“We’re more than happy to give the best effort possible to recover this girl for her family.”

Pro Log Inc. also stepped forth to provide a command center building where all of the surveying equipment will be stored. Like many people around the country, Pro Log Human Resources Director Heidi Parker said she has been following Holloway’s disappearance closely.

“We’re a family-owned business, so family is very important to us,” Parker said. “Anything we can do to help this family out is something that we’re going to do.”

After more than two years of searching, Texas Equusearch office manager Cheryl Lawless said she is hoping the organization’s fifth trip to Aruba will be its last. She said the venture would not be possible without the help of Schaefer, Silvetti and the other local companies.

“Nothing is being done to gain name recognition. This is to help these people,” Silvetti said. “Most of us have watched this on television, and I can only imagine the horror any parent would go through searching for their child in a foreign country.”

[AZLady]

WHAT WAS JOHN SILVETTI REALLY AFTER?

John Silvetti was contacted by Louis Schaeffer. 
Louis Schaeffer was contacted by TES.

Did TES approach Schaeffer for a donation?  Plausible as they most likely contact all big money who regularly give to to charities. 

Did Schaeffer view TES as a tool he might use to make a survey of the Aruban waters to discover a way to set up offshore drilling and save his floundering company?
Did Schaeffer contact Silvetti to obtain the equipment and expertise for his search without having to pay for it?  After all, Schaeffer was trying to fund a very expensive, last ditch effort.

It seems apparent what Schaeffer was after.  But what did John Silvetti want?  I speculate he was after money, too, but not in the form of oil.  Silvetti seems very intent on motivating others to raise funds for him.  Beth, Dave, the head of the Hotel Assoc. on Aruba...  Silvetti's company "normally performs surveys looking for oil rigs and downed helicopters."  Is this like treasure hunting?  Is Silvetti a modern-day treasure hunter?  a scavenger?  a looter? 

I'm just rambling... pay me no mind.

[AZLady]

After reading more, I'm starting to wonder if Silvetti is interested in ocean floor mining.  Apparently, there are minerals beneath the ocean floor that are valuable if they can be mined.  Most of what I found was out of Australia.  Just an idea...


Wealth beneath the waves at
http://www.sciencewa.net.au/index.phpItemid=587&id=2195&option=com_content&task=view
Exploring the social dimensions of the Australian seafloor exploration and mining industry
at http://www.csiro.au/science/SEM.html
Map Sheds Light on Ocean Floor at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060811080640.htm
Diamond miner discovers undersea wealth at http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/05/2208785.htm

[AZLady]

Here's another article:
Billions Buried on the Seafloor at http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/gold-underwater-mining/302

I don't know if this might be behind the mapping of the waters around Aruba or not.  Most of the minerals now mined are in the Pacific or around Australia, near volcanic faults.  This would not seem to apply to the Caribbean.  Interesting idea, though.

[AZLady]

Okay, one more idea, then I'll be quiet.  What if the mapping of the waters around Aruba was done to facilitate the building of a pipeline?  Perhaps a neighboring country has some oil wells and they need to lay a pipeline to transport this oil to..oh, maybe a refinery or somewhere.  I think there may be some profit in this for the country, for Aruba, and for the mappers and pipeline builders.  Just an idea.

[Magnolia]

It is so good to see you AZ Lady.  Been missing you!

[BUCKSHOT]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

 I am not positive but I remember it being said that they were in the middle of filming the Range Rover
tapes and Mos had Joran and the Kalpoes rearrested.  That was the 29th or 30th of Nov, 2007.

That was one reason that Joran couldn't be jailed after the Range Rover confession aired

They have manipulated their legal system in a calculated, and not coincidental, manner.
Suspect status vs. Witness status, etc...
Arresting J2K with insufficient evidence so that when real evidence comes, the bar will have been set too high to re-arrest.
There must be lots of dogs and ponies in Aruba. It has been a show that has lasted nearly four years.

They would not even have had to expose their underbelly. Arrest the perpetrators. Joran, a minor, could have been psychologically evaluated as perpared by JanVDS, served minimal jail time and the Kalpoes could have been staged to be peripherally involved only with the same - minimal jail time. Morally, and respectfully, they could have returned NH's deceased body to her home country and state, paid for a funeral and burial service. Worst case scenario for them is that they would have had to compensate them with some money for wrongful death while in Aruba, if it even got to that point.

Aruba has probably spent 25:1 dollar for dollar to do the wrong thing, as opposed to doing the right thing. 25 is probably a conservatively low number. It will continue to grow. There is not turning back for them now. It will not be pretty for them if and when things ever hit the fan. Pressure, in some form, will always be on them. They have brought unwarranted international attention to themselves.  Like the old saying goes, They made their bed, now they will have to lie in it. They may be lying in it for a long time, with unpredicted negative consequences to their island and economy.

[BUCKSHOT]

10 days before the Ranger Rover confession Kyle met downtown in public with Mos
(date tapes were released, Jan. 31 st is when Beth saw them with DeVries)

BUMP

BUMP
 


Anyone have handy the date when Range Rover confession was actually taped?  I know that the Peter R. DeVries show aired on 2/03/08... 

 I am not positive but I remember it being said that they were in the middle of filming the Range Rover
tapes and Mos had Joran and the Kalpoes rearrested.  That was the 29th or 30th of Nov, 2007.

That was one reason that Joran couldn't be jailed after the Range Rover confession aired

They have manipulated their legal system in a calculated, and not coincidental, manner.
Suspect status vs. Witness status, etc...
Arresting J2K with insufficient evidence so that when real evidence comes, the bar will have been set too high to re-arrest.
There must be lots of dogs and ponies in Aruba. It has been a show that has lasted nearly four years.

They would not even have had to expose their underbelly. Arrest the perpetrators. Joran, a minor, could have been psychologically evaluated as perpared by JanVDS, served minimal jail time and the Kalpoes could have been staged to be peripherally involved only with the same - minimal jail time. Morally, and respectfully, they could have returned NH's deceased body to her home country and state, paid for a funeral and burial service. Worst case scenario for them is that they would have had to compensate them with some money for wrongful death while in Aruba, if it even got to that point.

Aruba has probably spent 25:1 dollar for dollar to do the wrong thing, as opposed to doing the right thing. 25 is probably a conservatively low number. It will continue to grow. There is not turning back for them now. It will not be pretty for them if and when things ever hit the fan. Pressure, in some form, will always be on them. They have brought unnecessary international attention to themselves.  Like the old saying goes, They made their bed, now they will have to lie in it. They may be lying in it for a long time, with unpredicted negative consequences to their island and economy.

correction. it is certainly warranted.