Natalee Case Discussion #803 2/25/09 - 3/1/09

[AZLady]

Janet, I see the answer in Private Eye's own post which you posted a few pages back:

private eye
 Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.
We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

I've bolded the key statement above.  I believe, and have since the beginning of this coverup was obvious, that it can be traced to Rudy Croes. 

[AZLady]

If we can find the links between Rudy Croes, Silvetti, and Schaeffer, we will have the answer.

[Keepthefaith]

Wow Janet.Really don't know what to tell you in regards to the last post!

[Keepthefaith]

Wow Janet.Really don't know what to tell you in regards to the last post!

Keepthefaith ... I cannot comprehend how all this great research has any direct connection to the furthering of the Aruban coverup by John Silvetti unless the "incentive" to betray Natalee Holloway's family can be identified.


Isn't that what many Monkey's are trying to do?Identify the incentive?If i'm not doing that,Monkey's,please feel free to redirect me in the proper direction.The only incentive for me is Justice for Natalee Holloway!

[Tamikosmom]

Wow Janet.Really don't know what to tell you in regards to the last post!

 

Keepthefaith .. I did not expect a response.  The bottom line is that I am slow at comprehending the purpose of all this research.  The learning process for me has always dictated baby steps.  Too much info at once is too distracting.

Hey ... I will continue to read Lovesong's timeline and ... in time a light will go off in my noggin and ... I will be one with you all.

Keep on keeping on.  I am not going anywhere.

Justice for Natalee Holloway!!

Janet

[Lifesong]

I thought Jamie Stovall was connected in an executive capacity to the operation of Underwater Expeditions,

I begin to think that I am comprehending some of this research encompassing John Silvetti, Louis Schaefer and Tim Trahan and ... then I get confused all over again.

 

Janet

I'm trying to figure this out just like you Janet!How long did it take for Schaefer to Bankrupt Underwater and then you bring Stovall over to Legacy Offshore??One would think confusing people is the objective for these people.Is it not?

Keepthefaith ... I cannot comprehend how all this great research has any direct connection to the furthering of the Aruban coverup by John Silvetti unless the "incentive" to betray Natalee Holloway's family can be identified.

I contend that a furthering of the Aruban coverup which has prevented justice from prevailing for an American citizen was planned in a meeting on board the Persistence a short time prior to the December 30th dive..

The Persistence undertaking may have been deceptively two fold but ... I believe that John Silvetti's initial intentions were honorable in regards to providing closure to Natalee Holloway's family if remains were discovered on the ocean floor.

I suspect that after the Arubans were made aware of the ROV images of December 29, 2007 ... the ROV images that Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller were so sure revealed a trap/cage that contained contents which were case related ... immediate damage control was where it was at.

I believe that the ultimate betrayal was planned only a short time prior to the second dive on December 30, 2007 ... at the meeting on board the Persistence between the Arubans, John Silvetti and ?.  At that meeting justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closurer for her family took a back seat and ... for an incentive ... John Silvetti became a participant in "the finale to the great Aruban coverup".  IMO.

Considering Tim Trahan dove with the Aruban dive team on December 30, 2007 ... I contend that this American also became a player in the betrayal.  In otherwords ... the "thumbs down" was a given.  IMO.

If the truth was were it was at ... it makes sense thatTim Trahan would let the Skate pass ... wait a minute for the silt to settle and ... observe as well as take photos of the contents.  Instead ... according to Kyle Kingman ... it the Aruban divers who remained and reported that the trap/cage contained nothing case related.

IMO

Anyways ... I have made the decision to go into lurking mode and ... just observed where all this is headed.  I sincerely want to understand ... especially when I consider the committment on this forum to the the topic.

Janet

_____


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:   This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #743 on: March 18, 2008, 04:30:41 PM »

It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.  It was a royal mess.  I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family.  In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed.  He couldn't wait.  He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident.  It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth.  This was Dec 30th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366324#msg366324

I hear ya, Janet, I hear ya.

Here's what I'm after.  I want to apply pressure.  I want someone to crack.  I don't really care who it is.  Whether its in relation to Silvetti & the search or the ALE/Dutch coverup or Joran's crimes - I want somebody to step up to the plate in this investigation and be a freaking human being and tell the truth to this family.  The number of people with the ability to do this is astounding and seems to be growing and it is beyond understanding to me that none are  willing to do what's right.

[Tamikosmom]

If we can find the links between Rudy Croes, Silvetti, and Schaeffer, we will have the answer.

I agree.  What was agreed upon at that December 30, 2007 meeting prior to the thumbs down dive?  What was John Silvetti's incentive?

Janet

[Magnolia]

I think that we have seen enough to know that these people are little
more than an underwater mafia.  They will do whatever necessary to
make a profit.

I think Natalee was never anything more to them than a way to a means.
They never expected they would find her or have to deal with the consequences
of what was in that cage.  The mission was never two fold as far as Natalee went.

From the look on Hans Mos face when he was on the Persistence and saw
the ROV footage, it is obvious that deals had to be struck.

[Anna]

Well, without all this research, we wouldn't know about the SEC filings, insider tradings, bankruptcies and all the rest affiliated with those entrusted to search for Natalee's remains.

I remain shocked at the high level of documented impropriety on the part of some of the major characters involved in this search effort.

[Tamikosmom]

I think that we have seen enough to know that these people are little
more than an underwater mafia.  They will do whatever necessary to
make a profit.

I think Natalee was never anything more to them than a way to a means.
They never expected they would find her or have to deal with the consequences
of what was in that cage.  The mission was never two fold as far as Natalee went.

From the look on Hans Mos face when he was on the Persistence and saw
the ROV footage, it is obvious that deals had to be struck.

EXACTLY!!!

In other words ... John Silvetti's intentions in his two fold endeavor was map for oil as well as returned Natalee Holloway to her family ... her country ... if her remains were discover.

Magnolia ... the ROV images of December 29, 2007 revealed to Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller that those remains may have been discovered and ... Tim Miller notified the family.  It was then the Arubans under Rudy Croes instruction went into damage control.  A deal needed to be struck with John Silvetti prior to the December 29, 2007 Dateline dive.

Janet

[Anna]

I didn't even know there was a Class Action Suit against this company, the main one conducting the search for Natalee.

While it is remotely possible for innocent parties to be the victim of one of those I suppose, I just have never heard of it happening.

[Lifesong]

I think that we have seen enough to know that these people are little
more than an underwater mafia.  They will do whatever necessary to
make a profit.

I think Natalee was never anything more to them than a way to a means.
They never expected they would find her or have to deal with the consequences
of what was in that cage.  The mission was never two fold as far as Natalee went.

From the look on Hans Mos face when he was on the Persistence and saw
the ROV footage, it is obvious that deals had to be struck.

EXACTLY!!!

In other words ... John Silvetti's intentions in his two fold endeavor was map for oil as well as returned Natalee Holloway to her family ... her country ... if her remains were discover.

Magnolia ... the ROV images of December 29, 2007 revealed to Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller that those remains may have been discovered and ... Tim Miller notified the family.  It was then the Arubans under Rudy Croes instruction went into damage control.  A deal needed to be struck with John Silvetti prior to the December 29, 2007 Dateline dive.

Janet

Agree.

[Tamikosmom]

I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not undermining all the hard work that you all have put into researching this topic.  I am only say that it is "ME" that is confused/lost in regards to where all this is going ... how it is going to tie in.

In other words ... "MY" problem.

Hugs.

Janet

[ksl]

Hi monkeys. Long time lurker... this is my first post. I've never had anything to add. I still don't, but I do have some questions. Do you think maybe there was no "vision" from the detective/brother? That always seemed weird. And if ALE and the crew became "partners".... why aren't the detective/brother found with hands in there pockets for causing this trouble? I'm wondering if maybe a deal was struck prior to arriving in Aruba. Or at least "we think we know where she's at. If you find her, we'll give you XXXXX". I think the cage was found VERY quick. One of the first targets looked at. It seems like someone knew they would find it.

Probably way off here, but I wanted to get some reactions to this.

Keep up the good work.

[Lifesong]

11/21/07 - Re-arrests based on "new evidence" resulting from Dutch 'cold-case' investigators
11/30/07 - Persistence leaves Louisiana
12/01/07 - Kalpoes released, no charges, no new evidence
12/07/07 - Joran ordered released, no charges, no new evidence
12/15/07 - Persistence arrives late; was delayed by storm
12/20/07 - Caplocks registers
12/??/07 - "Shortly before Christmas" - ALE Detective/brother meet with Persistence crew
12/22/07 - Persistence crew builds a 'local material trap' to test the sensing equipment
12/25/07 - TRAP FOUND
12/29/07 - ROV dive
12/30/07 - Meeting on the Persistence
12/30/07 - Trahan dive (we've only seen the one done for the Dateline camera)
01/07/08 - TRAP CLEANED OUT BY ONLY ALE DIVERS
01/10/08 - 1st day of taping the Range Rover confessions w/Patrick


I'll stop there, but if it helps Janet - this is where I personally am trying to get to.  This was planned long before the 12/30 meeting on the Persistence.  This was the final clean up phase.  Clyde Burke told Silvetti where she was - with a brother or without.

[wreck]

Guess no one wants to hear about my balmy 70 degrees today?  Don't worry, won't be long before it will turn to bake-your-brains summer heat.

I just heard the weather man say SNOW....not flurries... Saturday night and Sunday for Alabama.

That is wintertime down South!

It's 83 degrees curently in Dallas. ( A frigid 65 for the high tomorrow though!) 

[caesu]

If we can find the links between Rudy Croes, Silvetti, and Schaeffer, we will have the answer.

just to help with search queries:

Rudy Croes = H. R. Croes = Hyacintho Rudolfo Croes
Hendrik Croes = H. S. Croes = Hendrik Seferino Croes

[Lifesong]

Hi monkeys. Long time lurker... this is my first post. I've never had anything to add. I still don't, but I do have some questions. Do you think maybe there was no "vision" from the detective/brother? That always seemed weird. And if ALE and the crew became "partners".... why aren't the detective/brother found with hands in there pockets for causing this trouble? I'm wondering if maybe a deal was struck prior to arriving in Aruba. Or at least "we think we know where she's at. If you find her, we'll give you XXXXX". I think the cage was found VERY quick. One of the first targets looked at. It seems like someone knew they would find it.

Probably way off here, but I wanted to get some reactions to this.

Keep up the good work.

I don't think anyone actually believes that the ALE detective's brother got a coordinate from a vision...

And you're right - it was very quick that they found the trap after getting the coordinate, which was right after they got to Aruba to begin the search.

It's all Hinky, imo.

[Tamikosmom]

Does anybody know if Tim Trahan was one of the divers on the December 29th dive.  The ROV images from this dive convinced Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller that Natalee Holloway's remains had been located.

Thank you.

Janet

_______ 


KYLE KINGSMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

BUMPED

[Lifesong]

Does anybody know if Tim Trahan was one of the divers on the December 29th dive.  The ROV images from this dive convinced Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller that Natalee Holloway's remains had been located.

Thank you.

Janet

_______ 


KYLE KINGSMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS.

Kyle: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

BUMPED

I don't know, Janet.  I always thought the 29th was the ROV-only dive.