Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[AZLady]

(Tues-) Paulus:

I cannot remember what I did when I got home. I think that Joran
went to bed and that I worked a little in the garden  
and then started preparing dinner. I informed Anita about what
had taken place. That night I went to bed early.

You know, Paulus does not strike me as a gardener.  From the photos I've seen, the yard is overrun with weeds and the plants are not in good shape.  Paulus working in the garden is an odd enough visual picture as to make one go "hmmm...."

I wonder what he was burying in the flowers.

[AZLady]

If the dirt is disturbed and freshly turned, Paulus was working in the garden.

[San]

All I see is Jamaica and ? Unknown Country.  Hmm...

I saw China, Venezuela, Australia, Germany, Israel.  I think there was Antigua too.

I looked at Location and Who's On.  Where were you looking?

I looked under World Map.  When it brings the map up it gave me red, green and white dots all over the country and the world.  When I put my curser near the dot it told me the location of where they were.  There is someone right now from:
State/Region:  Zuid-Holland
City:  Delft

[AZLady]

If Paulus and Joran had DNA and blood on their clothing or shoes from Sunday/Monday's rape and murder, perhaps he felt it was safe to bury them in the garden.  He certainly knew that no one could legally enter his yard unless he allowed them to do so.  No problem.  I've long contended that criminals hide the most incriminating evidence in a place they feel is private and protected.  Remember, when you were a kid, you hid the contraband under your socks and underwear?  The most private place.  Paulus would not trust anyone else to dispose of the most personal evidence, and he would place it in a place he could protect--his own back yard.

[Lala'sMom]

Joran says he went to school and daddy says he didn't.

Joran June 14:
At approximately 08.00 am, I arrived at school on the bus. I had slept the entire time the bus took to get to school.

[San]

If Paulus and Joran had DNA and blood on their clothing or shoes from Sunday/Monday's rape and murder, perhaps he felt it was safe to bury them in the garden.  He certainly knew that no one could legally enter his yard unless he allowed them to do so.  No problem.  I've long contended that criminals hide the most incriminating evidence in a place they feel is private and protected.  Remember, when you were a kid, you hid the contraband under your socks and underwear?  The most private place.  Paulus would not trust anyone else to dispose of the most personal evidence, and he would place it in a place he could protect--his own back yard.

Paulus would trust Jan Van der Straaten.  Now how do we know evidence was buried?  He could have given it to someone to hold that we would never think of.

[AZLady]

San, I checked the map too.  I saw Delft and another Holland location in the last 10 minutes or so.  Thanks.

[AZLady]

If Paulus and Joran had DNA and blood on their clothing or shoes from Sunday/Monday's rape and murder, perhaps he felt it was safe to bury them in the garden.  He certainly knew that no one could legally enter his yard unless he allowed them to do so.  No problem.  I've long contended that criminals hide the most incriminating evidence in a place they feel is private and protected.  Remember, when you were a kid, you hid the contraband under your socks and underwear?  The most private place.  Paulus would not trust anyone else to dispose of the most personal evidence, and he would place it in a place he could protect--his own back yard.

Paulus would trust Jan Van der Straaten.  Now how do we know evidence was buried?  He could have given it to someone to hold that we would never think of.

I don't think Paulus would trust personal items with anyone else.  And, remember, he worked in the garden on Tuesday.  Very odd.

[AZLady]

I'm off to find some dinner and watch Kimberly Guilfoyle at 6 pm.  Talk to you Monkeys later.

[igsigs]

State/Region:  Zuid-Holland

Haven't looked at the World Map in a long time, but last summer there were two ips from Boxtel that would read the discussion thread every night. Boxtel being the homebase for the Sweatyrunningman.

[Lala'sMom]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

[klaasend]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

My guess would be RWV but I could be wrong.  Maybe Tylergal will remember.

[igsigs]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

Dave/Art Wood, IIRC.

[Carnut]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

Can we really tell if any story from that dirty little island didn't originate from  Renfro and AVDS?

[nonesuche]

If Paulus and Joran had DNA and blood on their clothing or shoes from Sunday/Monday's rape and murder, perhaps he felt it was safe to bury them in the garden.  He certainly knew that no one could legally enter his yard unless he allowed them to do so.  No problem.  I've long contended that criminals hide the most incriminating evidence in a place they feel is private and protected.  Remember, when you were a kid, you hid the contraband under your socks and underwear?  The most private place.  Paulus would not trust anyone else to dispose of the most personal evidence, and he would place it in a place he could protect--his own back yard.

Paulus would trust Jan Van der Straaten.  Now how do we know evidence was buried?  He could have given it to someone to hold that we would never think of.

I've also heard from across the ocean that Paulus buried things in the cistern and capped it over, for whatever it's worth - quite some time ago I might add.

[nonesuche]

State/Region:  Zuid-Holland

Haven't looked at the World Map in a long time, but last summer there were two ips from Boxtel that would read the discussion thread every night. Boxtel being the homebase for the Sweatyrunningman.

      sweatyrunningman

[SunFreak2]

sunfreak, where did Joran get those inherent antisocial traits?  His father?  His mother?  Who else had a temper so bad in the family that he might have fashioned his own after?  Who was responsible for all their problems in the Netherlands?  Who was a failed judge and why?  We do not know why.  It could have been related to his violent tendencies.  We cannot get enough information from this press-free country, whose only oracle is Julia Renfro, who has the ability to build mountains of lies in one single TV program.

I'm not defending Paulus or Anita by any means, but there is no proof that the vd Sloots had any problems in the Netherlands other than Paulus delaying the road thru his property in Boxtel. Anything else is speculation, unless you have other information.

I agree that there had to be dysfunction within the vd Sloot family, afterall, what family doesn't have some form of dysfunction in it? I also agree that part of Joran's problem was the pemissivity & lack of parental supervision, maybe even directly related to Paulus being absent during his quest to become a judge.  But I also believe it was the socials mores in Aruba that contributed to Joran's sense of entitlement, disregard for the value of the opposite sex and the fact that Aruba is so lax in its laws.

Sociopathy usually can be related to the circumstances of environment, but psychopathy is inborn and not learned behavior.  

I believe that Joran is a true psychopath and is the one who killed Natalee.  I think Anita & Paulus failed their child in getting help for him, and have been covering up for him for a long time, including what happened to Natalee.

[klaasend]

9PM - EITHER OR BOTH

DANA PRETZER - Special Guest Carmen Mercer VP Of The Minute Man Project

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/10/22/the-dana-pretzer-show-special-guest-carmen-mercer-vp-of-the-minute-man-project/

OR

FOX - THE LINEUP 9PM

DAVE HOLLOWAY

[Tylergal]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

I do know that Miss Idaho told Greta that a a phone call was made from the sonofaditch phone or the dithc's phone to an area where steve croes stayed with his father approximately 6:40 a.m. that Monday and she said that the sonofaditch went to school and maxed his tests.  Some students stated on RWV that he went to school, was late, had scratches and a teacher took pictures of them where he had the scratches.  The teacher later went to Ethiopia.  Also other students said he had no tests and slept in the aisles all day where as Miss Idaho said he maxed his tests taht day. From school records, we found the only tests given that day were the APT's which Joran took one, the English exam, on which he scored a 5.  AzLady can tell you what a 2 on that test means --- failure.

[Tylergal]

Does anyone remember where the story of Joran being picked up at Lorenzo's originated?  Tell it wasn't Renfroe.

My guess would be RWV but I could be wrong.  Maybe Tylergal will remember.

Anna might recall but it seems to me that Maria of Aruba (whatever her name was, phony names they used) is the one who told that but I could be mistaken.