Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[lexie]

Hi, All....
Have not been able to read much the past couple of weeks, and am having a real hard time catching up!  But I am here for Natalee's family, especially since her birthday has come and gone again.  I keep hoping for some good news, and am trying to remain positive.  I know I can count on the Monkeys to keep me posted.

Back to reading and catching up....

[Anna]

Well, I can't find it.  I'd rather take a beating than go in those RWV archives but I may suit up tomorrow and give it a shot.

But I could swear I recall Joran saying that to Greta about meeting his father at the airport.  Did she interview Joran at other times?  My eyes are crossing for tonight.  And it is cold here with first expected freeze tomorrow night.  

Goodnight all.

[Carnut]

Well, I can't find it.  I'd rather take a beating than go in those RWV archives but I may suit up tomorrow and give it a shot.

But I could swear I recall Joran saying that to Greta about meeting his father at the airport.  Did she interview Joran at other times?  My eyes are crossing for tonight.  And it is cold here with first expected freeze tomorrow night.  

Goodnight all.

Nope, Greta only did one interview, right after the rush deal on the NY interview, was that the cuomo interview?

Think we all saw a couple more interviews but don't remember them all.

[Carnut]

Almost wish we could do a google search on 'JVDS picks up dad' or 'Paulus arrives home from Holland'.

[klaasend]

Almost wish we could do a google search on 'JVDS picks up dad' or 'Paulus arrives home from Holland'.

Already tried that  

[klaasend]

Hi, All....
Have not been able to read much the past couple of weeks, and am having a real hard time catching up!  But I am here for Natalee's family, especially since her birthday has come and gone again.  I keep hoping for some good news, and am trying to remain positive.  I know I can count on the Monkeys to keep me posted.

Back to reading and catching up....

Hi Lexie - nothing really new to report really.  A new statement and Beth was on Hour with Power.  You can catch up by ready the front page of SM.  Would be faster than trying to read all the way through the thread.

[lexie]

Hi, All....
Have not been able to read much the past couple of weeks, and am having a real hard time catching up!  But I am here for Natalee's family, especially since her birthday has come and gone again.  I keep hoping for some good news, and am trying to remain positive.  I know I can count on the Monkeys to keep me posted.

Back to reading and catching up....

Hi Lexie - nothing really new to report really.  A new statement and Beth was on Hour with Power.  You can catch up by ready the front page of SM.  Would be faster than trying to read all the way through the thread.

Have finally caught up...and what a GREAT interview.  I remember VERY early in the case, a poster on RWV talking about her feeling that Natalee was involved in a great battle between good and evil.  After hearing that interview, maybe she was not too far off.  One thing that is very apparent when you look at Beth Twitty is the light in her eyes.  The Bible talks about the early followers of Christ "having his face in their countenance."  Maybe that is what we are seeing in Beth.  After all these months of disappointments and frustration, it would be nice to see Beth and Dave finally get some answers.

[lexie]

Have been doing a lot of volunteer work at g'son's school.  Last week we had a scare... two schools  (grades K-4) went into lockdown because there was a person threatenting suicide within blocks of the two schools.  She had a gun, and was driving in the area between the two.  Police finally followed her home and took her in for help... Was scary for all the adults (and the parents who had heard rumors) but the kids were never in any real danger.  I did learn a lot about the schools' emergency plans.  

Got to get some sleep, its after 1 a.m. here.  

Thanks, Klaas, for keeping me posted.  I will try not to get so far behind on reading from now on.  

[blah]

If Paulus and Joran had DNA and blood on their clothing or shoes from Sunday/Monday's rape and murder, perhaps he felt it was safe to bury them in the garden.  He certainly knew that no one could legally enter his yard unless he allowed them to do so.  No problem.  I've long contended that criminals hide the most incriminating evidence in a place they feel is private and protected.  Remember, when you were a kid, you hid the contraband under your socks and underwear?  The most private place.  Paulus would not trust anyone else to dispose of the most personal evidence, and he would place it in a place he could protect--his own back yard.

Paulus would trust Jan Van der Straaten.  Now how do we know evidence was buried?  He could have given it to someone to hold that we would never think of.

I don't think Paulus would trust personal items with anyone else.  And, remember, he worked in the garden on Tuesday.  Very odd.

So the Beth and gang show up late Monday night and they have the confrontation at Sloot residence.  So at this time there is no doubt that Paulus knows his son was last seen with Natalee.  By Tuesday - pretty much whole island knows that Natalee was missing and i'm sure pretty much everyone knew Joran was last to see her.

And Paulus figures this would be a good time to get a little gardening done?  Pretty strange for sure.

I also agree with the person who said it doesnt appear to be a very well kept yard/garden from all of the picture we have seen.

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
AweMainta
http://www.awemainta.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[Leslie]

I took me hours to catch on the conversation!  I have to agree with Tylergal and Anna on many points.  I think Paul realized he was a failure in a country of inferior people.  He was seething inside.  He was a middle-aged, unhappily married man who looked with envy at his son Joran and allowed him to have a bachelor apt to watch the parade of oung "chicas" come and go.  He watched porn, drank and lived a life of quiet desperation.  Anita went  ( or was sent ) away for a week and Paul had one week-end to go wild.

[Leslie]

Alana Jordan/Ed Kissel Interview on Bill O'Reilly:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159764,00.html

[Shizaru]

I have made some edits and additions to the Croes/Joran conversation portion of the TL, which I've posted below.  A few interesting things I noticed:

Paulus contrdicts Croes about whether Joran told Natalee he was the girl whose money he won back

Paulus contrdicts Croes about what sort of sexual activity Joran initially described with Natalee

Paulus corroborates Croes' claim to Greta that Joran told him he danced with Natalee. That now makes 4 people (Satish, Kissel, Croes, and Paulus) who say they either saw Joran dancing with Natalee or heard Joran say he danced with her, altho Joran now claims he refused to dance with her

C. Croes is the first person to question Joran, and Joran tells Croes his entire initial story, from his first meeting with Natalee to HI dropoff (P 6/23)

Joran claims to Croes that Natalee was the girl whose money he helped win back at the casino, and that she called him her "lucky charm" (OTR 5/30/05).

Paulus hears Joran tell Croes that he had helped a girl win back money at the casino. A few days later Joran when Joran sees a picture of Natalee and her friends in one of the US newspapers, he says the girl whose money he helped win back is the one on the extreme right in the picture, not Natalee (P 6/23)

Joran tells Croes that at CnCs, Natalee came on to him, and was dancing provacatively, "like a slut" (Vanity Fair, OTR 5/30/05)

Joran tells Croes that he danced with Natalee (OTR 6/30/05)

Paulus hears Joran tell Croes that he danced with Natalee (P 6/23)

Joran tells Croes that Natalee may have been doing drugs. When Croes repeats this in an interview, he says Joran told him Natalee had been "doing drugs and possibly drinking too", but presumably Croes meant to say it the other way around (OTR 6/30/05)

Joran tells Croes that Natalee was "crazy" (Vanity Fair)

When Joran tells Croes that Natalee told him her mother was Hitler's sister, he also says she told him she wanted to go to Austria (P 6/23)

Joran tells Croes that Natalee performed oral sex on him in the car, and that she told him she was a virgin (Vanity Fair).

Joran addresses the Americans and asks if Natalee's parents are present. Jug says he is Natalee's stepfather. Joran asks Jug to step away for a moment and then tells the others that he and Natalee had been kissing in the back seat and he had fingered her (P 6/23)

Joren tells Croes that at the lighthouse Deepak became concerned that Natalee would "make a mess" in the car, presumably by vomiting (Vanity Fair)

[blah]

From, the Natalee Timeline website:

Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT’s plane lands in ARUBA after a layover in Curacao after he was, supposedly, on a HOLLAND trip. Here is the published schedule for Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT’s flight:

Depart:............. 12:40 pm Amsterdam, Holland
Arrive:.............. 10:40 pm
Carrier/Flight:.... KLM flight # 0785 / 9H 2964
Equip:............... 747/AT4
Freq:................. Sunday
Stop/Connect:.... A57/Curacao 4:20 PM
Trip Time:......... 16:00 hours

Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT’s “judge-in-training” had already been revoked, and he was so notified a week or so before NATALEE disappeared

Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT was never a full judge.

Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT failed his first judgeship exam, and was notified of his failure by DUTCH judicial authorities, and possible island expulsion in the future

(His wife, apparently, either still thinks he is a judge-in-training because Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT never told her he was fired--and therefore Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT had also been lying to his wife--

Or,

She is also deliberately lying, and just wants everyone to think he still is a judge--because in almost every one of her post-May 30, 2005 interviews, she refers to him as a “judge” As late as at least June 29, 2005 Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT was also constantly referring to himself as a “judge“)

????Did Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT pick up Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT at the ARUBA airport sometime after the 4:40 PM scheduled arrival time????

????If Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT pick up Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT, did the two of them go directly to the “Excelsior Casino” since Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT later claimed he saw some Mountain Brook high school graduates drinking in the “Excelsior Casino”????

????Since Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT claimed he knew the classmates he saw in the “Excelsior Casino” at 5:00 PM were from “Mountain Brook high school,” when, precisely, was the first time BEFORE 4:40 PM that Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT met/interacted with the classmates and lied to them that he was a foreign exchange student and tourist on vacation who was also staying at the “Holiday Inn”????

 

__:__ PM (?) = Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT plane taxi‘s from the airport landing strip to its airport terminal gate, then parks.

 

__:__ PM (?) = Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT exits his plane.

 

__:__ PM (?) = If Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT had non-carry-on baggage he goes to the baggage area and retrieves his baggage.

 

__:__ PM (?) = Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT leaves the airport terminal and walks outside the airport terminal to either be met by Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, or a friend, or, hail a taxi.

 

__:__ PM (?) = Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT is met by Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT or a friend at the airport, or, Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT takes a taxi to the “Excelsior” casino, or Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT takes a taxi to his home.

 

__:__ PM (?) = Former Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT and Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT each make their way via a vehicle to the “Excelsior“ casino, either together, or separately, and arrive there.

 

4:00 PM = Prime Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (age 17) enters the “Excelsior” casino with or separately from Current Suspect PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT. They enter a “Texas Hold’em” poker tournament. NATALEE’s step-cousin, THOMAS TWITTY, enters the same tournament and plays at the same table as the Suspects SLOOT’s

4:30 PM = On 6-20 ANDRE MONTIVAL AOKI DOS SANTOS (a.k.a. “Dre”) stated to the ARUBAN Police:

<QUOTE>

On your question if I on Sunday, May 29 2005, met Joran, Deepak and Satish, I answer you the following:

On Sunday, May 29, 2005, around 16:30, I met Joran in the Excelsior casino of the Holiday Inn hotel. The moment I met Joran I was in the company of my father called "Montival SANTOS". Joran was in the company of father named “Paul” that is when my father and I met them in the “Excelsior Casino”. On that day we played in a "Texas Hold'm poker Tournament". Joran was first to be eliminated from the tournament. I no longer remember at what time Joran lost. I saw that Joran then played "black-Jack" and I continued play poker. After I was eliminated from the poker game I went over to Joran who was still sitting at the black-jack table. I no longer remember what time I left the poker table. When I stood beside Joran, I saw that there was a group of American students who were on holiday in Aruba talking. I saw that Joran helped one of the girls play black-jack. Joran told me that he was busy helping the girl with black-jack because according to Joran she had lost much money. After Joran helped the girl, Joran and I walked around in the Excelsior casino. I saw the group girls who were playing black-Jack with Joran walk by and I heard the girls say he should go to Carlos & Charlies later in the evening hours because they would like to meet him there. Joran answered for them not to worry, he would go. On Sunday, May 29, 2005 in the evening hours, after the Texas Hold'm poker Tournament at the Excelsior casino I ran into “Elvis KELLY ", and his wife "Gladys” and we all got into my fathers pick up and drove away. My father acted as a driver for our two passengers in his green pick-up of the make Ford Ranger, license plate number "A-23793". We drove first to Wendy's Palm Beach to buy food and after we had eaten, my father dropped off Elvis and Gladys at their home. Elvis and Gladys live in the hamlet Noord. I don’t know their address but I can designate to you their house. After we dropped Elvis and wife at their home my father and I went home. I no longer remember what time we got home. I studied first and afterwards slept because I had a "physics" examination to take on Monday, May 30, 2005, from 07.30 till 10.00. I do recall that Joran asked me if I wanted to accompany him to Carlos & Charlies but I answered him that I could not go because I had an examination the next day.


<END QUOTE>

[Leslie]

Looks like there is a "war" between Holland and Aruba concerning the financial mess Aruba is in with mounting debts, etc.

[2NJSons_Mom]

See that focus was still on when we heard Joran picked up his father at the airport on 5/29/05:  I could also swear I recall Anita  on TV, perhaps from Holland or immediately upon her return saying 'we were at a family function in Holland'...can't find it though.  Found this interview, however:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

Partial quote:

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: He's very quiet. He's very shy. He doesn't like media coverage at all. And he's very much hurt by things that are happening. And as I look back — I mean, I came back from Holland Wednesday, and I was so surprised at seeing three young men — one kid, two men — involved, maybe, in the disappearance of a girl. Why did they let the boys go? Why didn't they interrogate immediately deep, see wherever any...

[robots]

Looks like there is a "war" between Holland and Aruba concerning the financial mess Aruba is in with mounting debts, etc.

geeeeesh

thats a shame  

[Anna]

Blah,
Thanks for bringing that over and posting.  So much detail!  I only wish he had given a source for that and am sure he does, too, now.  Was this just another "decoy" thrown at us?  Hard to believe with all that detail and yet now it appears Paulus was home all along???

I don't get it.  Why were we told this in the first place?  What purpose did it serve?  Maybe prevent anyone from looking at Paulus activities all week?  Had he in fact been lurking around the HI pretending to be a tourist just like his son?

Did we just wrongly assume he was along because Anita said "WE" were attending a family function in the NL?

[robots]

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: A hundred percent no. No. He is, like, Mom, I would not smoke or I would not use drugs because I am a sporter. I want to make something out of my future. If there would have been anything of that, I would have noticed. I'm a teacher. I work with kids between 12 and 18 years, the last 25 years. So you're used to so many things, problems that appear with your students. You're so alert. And I think you're even more alert with your own children.

geeeesh anita, did you notice anything about the incessant TELLING of LIES, stealing, drinking by the barrel, sneaking out at night, killing dogs

huh ??

did ya ??

huh ???

how about that, any of that catch your EYE ??


what a load of BS  

[mrs. red]

Yep, Anita is alert all right....