Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[yapperz1]

Nite Monkeys. My fingers are refusing to co-operate.

[klaasend]

Nite Yapperz

[Lala'sMom]

Nite yapperz, sleep well.

[Grande]

I would believe The Ntional Enquirer b4 any of the TH's on the Rock.  

Would you believe Beth is she referenced the call?  She has...

[Anna]

so maybe PAULUS goes to work, leaves at 10 to go to the BANK  

but he really goes to talk with someone on the phone, you really cant be talking about a murder cover up in your office, well in TOILET
you can

For your information i do not refer to ARUBA as ARUBA anymore, i only refer to it as TOILET, not the TOILET only TOILET


PAULUS was making arrangements that morning from his cell phone  

I agree with this Robots.  He left the office to take care of this "problem" that resulted from "something bad happening" and if we are going to be accused of acting on emotion rather than any facts I have always felt and emoted that it was VDStraaten on the phone calling when Paulus took the call during an international interview.  I think Paulus had them looking for Natalee's remains or disposing of them and that is what the call was about.  What else on the face of this earth could be that important?  And cause that much sweating.

And if we are going to be accused of being emotional rather than factual, I have had an image, a very strong one, of Natalee being in a professional body bag, the black zipping kind no matter what happened to her.  That has just always stuck in my mind that they had that professional touch to all of this.  I have also thought at some time she may have even been in the official morgue and that is where van der Straaten saw the evidence and we did not as he said to the reporter.  At some point he saw something that confirmed to him that Natalee was no longer living.  Yet somebody tore up a statement of Joran's made around that time.  Dave saw it on Jacobs desk.

[Lala'sMom]

I would believe The Ntional Enquirer b4 any of the TH's on the Rock.  

Would you believe Beth is she referenced the call?  She has...

The call happened.

[SunFreak2]

Agreed Big Hammer, at some point she was abducted.   My belief is that she likely knew she was not in good hands shortly after leaving the bar.   Deepak clearly remembers the exchange between Natalee and the other MB'ers after leaving.  He even went as far as saying he suggested that Natalee get out and 'go with her friends' after being summoned by the male MB student.  To me this suggests guilt, and also suggests Deepak knew of the impending crimes that would be committed.  

Secondly, the porn video?  This is a glimpse into the mind of predators in my opinion.  Only predators would display pornographic materials to a complete stranger that they had met only hours before and in K2's case, only a half hour before, yet they had the notion to play a porn video for their overseas GUEST?  I think not!  A more likely scenario is that they KNEW Natalee would not be in a position to pass judgement on them or they simply did not care.  This clearly is a contradiction to Deepak's previous 'go with your friends' gesture.  At what point in the ride did the Natalee's freedom become compromised?  BEFORE DEEPAK URINATED?  Perhaps shortly after showing the porno, and likely around the same time Natalee became concerned about her security and well being?  

On more than one occasion Deepak stated he stopped at the end of the asphalt at Arashi Beach and urinated.  Pretty detailed description of a piss break, huh?  Charles Croes went to ARASHI to locate one of Joran's associates.  WHY ARASHI?  Did Joran frequent Arashi Beach?  Was there a Soul Beach Music Festival after hours party there?  If Natalee was aware of the imminent danger before they arrived at Arashi Beach then wouldn't this be the likely location of her attempted escape if that occurred?

Joran probably attacked Natalee in the car as soon as the porn video started. Their gang sign is the "shocker" and he probably forced her to have his way.  I really don't think that Deepak stopped at the blacktop when the lighthouse was less that a mile away.  I still think Natalee tried to run at the lighthouse, but her legs were wobbly and she only got as far as the rocks before she tripped or someone tackled her.  She was terribly cut and bleeding.  They packed her back in the car, drove to the pond to wash up a bit and decide what to do with her.  Either they dropped her at the huts with joran, or they dropped them at Joran's apt.   I think she was alive for hours after the head injury.  She was able to walk with assistance and talk.  I think she was bleeding slowly in her head and between the booze, the drugs slipped her and the increasing pressure in her brain, she slipped in unconciousness and then she stopped breathing.  Joran woke up with a dead girl in his bed.  Skipped school the next day along with Satish & Deepak. But she was eventually moved & finally disposed of from where they left her.

[robots]

so maybe PAULUS goes to work, leaves at 10 to go to the BANK  

but he really goes to talk with someone on the phone, you really cant be talking about a murder cover up in your office, well in TOILET
you can

For your information i do not refer to ARUBA as ARUBA anymore, i only refer to it as TOILET, not the TOILET only TOILET


PAULUS was making arrangements that morning from his cell phone  

I agree with this Robots.  He left the office to take care of this "problem" that resulted from "something bad happening" and if we are going to be accused of acting on emotion rather than any facts I have always felt and emoted that it was VDStraaten on the phone calling when Paulus took the call during an international interview.  I think Paulus had them looking for Natalee's remains or disposing of them and that is what the call was about.  What else on the face of this earth could be that important?  And cause that much sweating.

And if we are going to be accused of being emotional rather than factual, I have had an image, a very strong one, of Natalee being in a professional body bag, the black zipping kind no matter what happened to her.  That has just always stuck in my mind that they had that professional touch to all of this.  I have also thought at some time she may have even been in the official morgue and that is where van der Straaten saw the evidence and we did not as he said to the reporter.  At some point he saw something that confirmed to him that Natalee was no longer living.  Yet somebody tore up a statement of Joran's made around that time.  Dave saw it on Jacobs desk.

BINGO !!


the confession that was not a confession

[yapperz1]

You betcha I believe Beth. I agree with San..whatever certain folks from the Rock say..the opposite is what happened.
Nite all.

[Grande]

I would believe The Ntional Enquirer b4 any of the TH's on the Rock.  

Would you believe Beth is she referenced the call?  She has...

The call happened.

Absolutely.

[Grande]

so maybe PAULUS goes to work, leaves at 10 to go to the BANK  

but he really goes to talk with someone on the phone, you really cant be talking about a murder cover up in your office, well in TOILET
you can

For your information i do not refer to ARUBA as ARUBA anymore, i only refer to it as TOILET, not the TOILET only TOILET


PAULUS was making arrangements that morning from his cell phone  

And the night of that confession Joran was said to be out of his cell.  Arashi beach was mentioned as well as was Canashito.  


I agree with this Robots.  He left the office to take care of this "problem" that resulted from "something bad happening" and if we are going to be accused of acting on emotion rather than any facts I have always felt and emoted that it was VDStraaten on the phone calling when Paulus took the call during an international interview.  I think Paulus had them looking for Natalee's remains or disposing of them and that is what the call was about.  What else on the face of this earth could be that important?  And cause that much sweating.

And if we are going to be accused of being emotional rather than factual, I have had an image, a very strong one, of Natalee being in a professional body bag, the black zipping kind no matter what happened to her.  That has just always stuck in my mind that they had that professional touch to all of this.  I have also thought at some time she may have even been in the official morgue and that is where van der Straaten saw the evidence and we did not as he said to the reporter.  At some point he saw something that confirmed to him that Natalee was no longer living.  Yet somebody tore up a statement of Joran's made around that time.  Dave saw it on Jacobs desk.

BINGO !!


the confession that was not a confession

[Anna]

Didn't Charlie crazy as a sh*t house rat Croes listen to the call ?

He said he did four or five times.  Now we are told there was no call?  What the heck???

I have just always backed off on trying to really really pin it down because I felt the family didn't want to talk about it and so thought maybe it was their weapon of last resort?  I have such hopes for this de Vries being a real investigator if the reputation he is given is true.  I would even like to think if this call exists, Beth will give it to him and it will be the Dutch who hear it first.  Let them think about that for a while.

So is de Vries why Joran is JORAN.ANGRY! and locked his MySpace?  Does he know is exposure is at hand?

Seems Peter de Vries is a national icon in this field.  I hope I am not getting my hopes up for nothing.  AGAIN.  

[Lala'sMom]

I think the rules of the game changed when van der Straaten claimed he had seen the evidence.  What evidence?  Why didn't anyone in the MSM ever ask about that statement?  It, like many other things, was just tossed by the wayside for the next interview with Frog Face and Tickle Tito.

[Anna]

Didn't Charlie crazy as a sh*t house rat Croes listen to the call ?

Yes he did.

It was reported there was a male sinister voice overheard saying "ARE YOU CALLING HOME?"

Greta even reported this in her blog/daily written column.  I don't know what to think about it any more.  

[Grande]

Deepak had to urinate twice in less than 45 minutes...


 
“I was in the bathroom for a little while. I have no patience to look. After the bathroom I looked around somewhat. I walked past the bar, past the glass section where the "Carlos & Charlies" souvenirs of "Carlos & Charlie" are sold to the outside. When I was walking outside, I could hear the announcement that it was the last opportunity to buy alcohol. That is always announced before closing, I walked to my car.”
Source: DEEPAK 6/09/2005 STATEMENT
 
 “I also didn't find them there, I then used the bathroom myself. . After I walked out of the bathroom, I called Joran on his mobile phone. He did not answer. I walked to the parking lot where my car was parked.”
Source: DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM
 
 “On the way to the "Lighthouse" me and my brother sat in front and talked and Joran and the girl were in the back and talked. I could not hear what they were talking about. At approximately where the “La Cabana Hotel” was, Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English “Oh my God, whats that” (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: “Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. “Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish complied with the request. I had been driving on, in the direction of Arashi. When I arrived at Arashi I stopped the car on the asphalted section. I got out because I had to take a pee.”
Source DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM

 
”The 3 men: 2 Surinam , 1 Dutch. They took her to arashi beach and all 3 had sex with her. During her vacation nobody has seen her often because she was always hanging out with a lot of different people…”
Posted by: Macamba | Wednesday, June 08, 2005 at 12:06 PM
Source: http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/17/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-6-2/

 “A lawyer for one of the Surinamese — Satish Kalpoe, 18, whose brother, Deepak, 21, also is in custody — said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach, on the northern part of the island, in the early hours of May 30.”
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html  
 
 
Transcript Nancy Grace for June 8, 2005, CNNHN Regarding bone found off of ARASHI BEACH
“Still with us, CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Very quickly to Karl Penhaul, Karl, did either of the three young men who took Natalee from the bar that night ever tell police that they had slept with her, had sex with her?

PENHAUL: We haven`t heard that directly because the evidence here and the witness statements here are highly confidential. The defense attorneys have seen some of those witness statements, I understand. But I do understand that, in the file, there are not three witness statements. I understand there are possibly only two witness statements.

We do hear from police sources, however, that the three men, at least one of them, says that they did go to the beach with Natalee and had some fun. The interpretation of that, I`m not aware of, Nancy .

GRACE: Now, is this coming from the defense attorneys?

PENHAUL: That "fun" bit of information was from a police source, that the three men or one of the three men, at least, had said that they`d gone to the beach with Natalee after leaving Carlos and Charlie`s and "had some fun." They didn`t specify what "had some fun" meant, but the beach where the two had gone or where the group had gone have been searched. That, I believe, is called Arashi Beach .”
Source: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:uG0Rkl3_YLUJ:transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/08/ng.01.html+%22arashi+beach%22+witness&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8
 
“While snorkeling on 7-6 about a “half-mile from the Marriott off Arashi beach,“ FORNARO discovered one bone in the ocean that she found “between 2 large rocks.” FORNARO describes the bone as being 3.5” to 5.0” long, larger at one end that was rounded “like a bone joint,” gray in color, and still had a “whitish tissue that was still meaty and flesh-like that was still attached to the bone.” When asked if she thought it was a human bone, FORNARO said, yes, she thought it was a human’s bone because the bone had not been cooked nor barbecued like an animal bone might have been if eaten as food. FORNARO wrapped the bone in paper, but even wrapped in paper she described its smell as so pungently bad and so strong that she had to put the wrapped bone in the trunk of her car while she and her mother transported the bone to the ARUBA police station in Noord. When she gave the bone to someone behind the “reception desk” at the ARUBA police Noord station, the person who accepted the bone told her that the police detectives will be contacting her. On 7-13 while lunching somewhere, FORNARO noticed a “Texas EquuSearch” team member also lunching. FORNARO told the “Texas EquuSearch” team member about her finding the bone near the “Marriott Hotel,” she described the bone, and FORNARO said she had taken the bone to the ARUBAN police station in Noord and turned it over to the police. The “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked FORNARO to show him exactly where she found the bone, and FORNARO did so. While at the discovery location they also found a pair of thong underwear and a yellow-colored hair “scrunchie.“ The same day the “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked FORNARO if the police had contacted her. When FORNARO said the police have not contacted her, the “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked if she would mind going to the ARUBAN police station at Noord and checking on the bone. FORNARO agreed. When she went into the police station and asked to speak with a detective about the bone she turned in, the woman police officer asked FORNARO (paraphrasing), “Oh, you mean the two bones?” As of 7-17 FORNARO has still not been contacted by the ARUBAN police detectives.”

I have talked with Jennifer Fornaro about this bone.  She has little doubt it was from a HUMAN.  Flesh intact, and the police simply threw it in a droor and would not offer her any details when she returned.

[Carnut]

Didn't Charlie crazy as a sh*t house rat Croes listen to the call ?

Yes he did.

It was reported there was a male sinister voice overheard saying "ARE YOU CALLING HOME?"

Greta even reported this in her blog/daily written column.  I don't know what to think about it any more.  

Don't know about he Male Voice, but Greta did make 'knowing' remarks about something to do with 'Miko' the monkey next door, and not just how he greeted them.

[Anna]

Sound of waves?  Maybe near Lorenzo's?

Question:
I'm wondering exactly where did this MF "read" that there was the "sound of waves in the background", anyway ??  ( I'm rather leery, as IMO when they're making things up they go all out and dress them up in melodrama )

MF got this from Scubajap who posted it on FOB last week. Where she got it i do not know...

Okay, I will say no more about the sounds... I get the message.  

Lala's - I think the problem is this:

#1 - we don't know for sure if there really was a call

#2 - if MF and Scubajap are saying sounds of waves, then we can probably rule out "sounds of waves".

We were originally told it was the sound of a car running.  Anyone remember my post one got out to open the gate, one got out to hold the dogs and one was driving while one got the cell phone and made the call.

But i think scubajap is the source of as much disinformation as the Renfrog.

Scubajap I believe to be that Angela friend of Julia.  But since my source for that is SandraK, take it for what it is worth.

[Grande]

Deepak had to urinate twice in less than 45 minutes...


 
“I was in the bathroom for a little while. I have no patience to look. After the bathroom I looked around somewhat. I walked past the bar, past the glass section where the "Carlos & Charlies" souvenirs of "Carlos & Charlie" are sold to the outside. When I was walking outside, I could hear the announcement that it was the last opportunity to buy alcohol. That is always announced before closing, I walked to my car.”
Source: DEEPAK 6/09/2005 STATEMENT
 
 “I also didn't find them there, I then used the bathroom myself. . After I walked out of the bathroom, I called Joran on his mobile phone. He did not answer. I walked to the parking lot where my car was parked.”
Source: DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM
 
 “On the way to the "Lighthouse" me and my brother sat in front and talked and Joran and the girl were in the back and talked. I could not hear what they were talking about. At approximately where the “La Cabana Hotel” was, Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English “Oh my God, whats that” (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: “Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. “Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish complied with the request. I had been driving on, in the direction of Arashi. When I arrived at Arashi I stopped the car on the asphalted section. I got out because I had to take a pee.”
Source DEEPAK 6/11/2005 STATEMENT and ADDENDUM

 
”The 3 men: 2 Surinam , 1 Dutch. They took her to arashi beach and all 3 had sex with her. During her vacation nobody has seen her often because she was always hanging out with a lot of different people…”
Posted by: Macamba | Wednesday, June 08, 2005 at 12:06 PM
Source: http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/04/17/aruba-natalee-holloway-comment-post-6-2/

 “A lawyer for one of the Surinamese — Satish Kalpoe, 18, whose brother, Deepak, 21, also is in custody — said they told police they took Holloway to Arashi Beach, on the northern part of the island, in the early hours of May 30.”
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html  
 
 
Transcript Nancy Grace for June 8, 2005, CNNHN Regarding bone found off of ARASHI BEACH
“Still with us, CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul. Very quickly to Karl Penhaul, Karl, did either of the three young men who took Natalee from the bar that night ever tell police that they had slept with her, had sex with her?

PENHAUL: We haven`t heard that directly because the evidence here and the witness statements here are highly confidential. The defense attorneys have seen some of those witness statements, I understand. But I do understand that, in the file, there are not three witness statements. I understand there are possibly only two witness statements.

We do hear from police sources, however, that the three men, at least one of them, says that they did go to the beach with Natalee and had some fun. The interpretation of that, I`m not aware of, Nancy .

GRACE: Now, is this coming from the defense attorneys?

PENHAUL: That "fun" bit of information was from a police source, that the three men or one of the three men, at least, had said that they`d gone to the beach with Natalee after leaving Carlos and Charlie`s and "had some fun." They didn`t specify what "had some fun" meant, but the beach where the two had gone or where the group had gone have been searched. That, I believe, is called Arashi Beach .”
Source: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:uG0Rkl3_YLUJ:transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/08/ng.01.html+%22arashi+beach%22+witness&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8
 
“While snorkeling on 7-6 about a “half-mile from the Marriott off Arashi beach,“ FORNARO discovered one bone in the ocean that she found “between 2 large rocks.” FORNARO describes the bone as being 3.5” to 5.0” long, larger at one end that was rounded “like a bone joint,” gray in color, and still had a “whitish tissue that was still meaty and flesh-like that was still attached to the bone.” When asked if she thought it was a human bone, FORNARO said, yes, she thought it was a human’s bone because the bone had not been cooked nor barbecued like an animal bone might have been if eaten as food. FORNARO wrapped the bone in paper, but even wrapped in paper she described its smell as so pungently bad and so strong that she had to put the wrapped bone in the trunk of her car while she and her mother transported the bone to the ARUBA police station in Noord. When she gave the bone to someone behind the “reception desk” at the ARUBA police Noord station, the person who accepted the bone told her that the police detectives will be contacting her. On 7-13 while lunching somewhere, FORNARO noticed a “Texas EquuSearch” team member also lunching. FORNARO told the “Texas EquuSearch” team member about her finding the bone near the “Marriott Hotel,” she described the bone, and FORNARO said she had taken the bone to the ARUBAN police station in Noord and turned it over to the police. The “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked FORNARO to show him exactly where she found the bone, and FORNARO did so. While at the discovery location they also found a pair of thong underwear and a yellow-colored hair “scrunchie.“ The same day the “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked FORNARO if the police had contacted her. When FORNARO said the police have not contacted her, the “Texas EquuSearch” team member asked if she would mind going to the ARUBAN police station at Noord and checking on the bone. FORNARO agreed. When she went into the police station and asked to speak with a detective about the bone she turned in, the woman police officer asked FORNARO (paraphrasing), “Oh, you mean the two bones?” As of 7-17 FORNARO has still not been contacted by the ARUBAN police detectives.”

I have talked with Jennifer Fornaro about this bone.  She has little doubt it was from a HUMAN.  Flesh intact, and the police simply threw it in a droor and would not offer her any details when she returned.

Uh droor s/b drawer  

[Grande]

Sound of waves?  Maybe near Lorenzo's?

Question:
I'm wondering exactly where did this MF "read" that there was the "sound of waves in the background", anyway ??  ( I'm rather leery, as IMO when they're making things up they go all out and dress them up in melodrama )

MF got this from Scubajap who posted it on FOB last week. Where she got it i do not know...

Okay, I will say no more about the sounds... I get the message.  

Lala's - I think the problem is this:

#1 - we don't know for sure if there really was a call

#2 - if MF and Scubajap are saying sounds of waves, then we can probably rule out "sounds of waves".

We were originally told it was the sound of a car running.  Anyone remember my post one got out to open the gate, one got out to hold the dogs and one was driving while one got the cell phone and made the call.

But i think scubajap is the source of as much disinformation as the Renfrog.

Scubajap I believe to be that Angela friend of Julia.  But since my source for that is SandraK, take it for what it is worth.

All of which are associated with Charles Croes the local Santerian.

[robots]

maybe the TOILET police checked already but what a simple thing to do

1. contact the school and say we would like to see the ATTENDANCE records for monday for the entire school, in particular JORAN VANDER SLOOT


2. was joran in school   YES _____  NO______

3. was he on time YES ____  NO_____

4. was he LATE ?  YES ______  NO____

i think the toilet police know that he was not there and PAULUS knows it
also