Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[Mere]

Good morning friends....

Been reading back....some things come to mind....

Grande's quote...

"Deepak clearly remembers the exchange between Natalee and the other MB'ers after leaving. He even went as far as saying he suggested that Natalee get out and 'go with her friends' after being summoned by the male MB student. To me this suggests guilt, and also suggests Deepak knew of the impending crimes that would be committed"

I realize now that the threesome did not need to wait for the family to arrive on the island to develop an alibi...they knew immediately that they would be fingered by at least one MB student for whatever they did.....only a fool would continue....if anything happened to Natalee...kidnapping, rape, ???....here were American witnesses......someone with an IQ of 10 would have taken her right to the HI.....

I think Sunfreak's idea re the way the injury occurred is right on....at some point she was mortally injured....and I think the three of them were there....

Sunfreak's quote...

"I still think Natalee tried to run at the lighthouse, but her legs were wobbly and she only got as far as the rocks before she tripped or someone tackled her. She was terribly cut and bleeding. They packed her back in the car, drove to the pond to wash up a bit and decide what to do with her. Either they dropped her at the huts with joran, or they dropped them at Joran's apt. I think she was alive for hours after the head injury. She was able to walk with assistance and talk. I think she was bleeding slowly in her head and between the booze, the drugs slipped her and the increasing pressure in her brain, she slipped in unconciousness and then she stopped breathing."


and blah.....I live on Maui for some time and you can hear the waves from a distance....especially at night.....

Mere

[Grande]

Good Morning All!

[Anna]

[blah]

Look at all the timeshares for sale in aruba...

http://tinyurl.com/y62kw3

http://tinyurl.com/ydjles


what a dam shame

[Kimmy53]

I have been thinking about these statements by Paulus.  They really glare out at me.  What I think is VERY telling is the statements by him that He does not remember certain things.

Okay - I ask you.  Have any of you ever been in a situation (perhaps not as serious as this one) but nevertheless, a situation in which you have to use hind site to look back on things?  In situations like that, you can remember alot of details, that if they happened on a normal day, you would not have a reason to try to remember.

I guess what I am trying to say is HOW CAN YOU NOT REMEMBER???  Anyone would be rattling their brains to remember every detail - especially with the GRAVITY of the situation.

I say his Amnesia is just a convenient excuse.  Oh He remembers alright.  He remembers it all.

Someone is gonna knock the VDS's off of their High Horse.  Its gonna be a long fall.  The truth will come out.  I have a feeling for every one of those he has that will cover for him, there are 2 more who would love to put him in his place.  Are ya sweating yet Paulus? I hear that sweat falling like rain....  What goes around comes around...  JMHO

[Kat_Gram]

Grande's quote...

"Deepak clearly remembers the exchange between Natalee and the other MB'ers after leaving. He even went as far as saying he suggested that Natalee get out and 'go with her friends' after being summoned by the male MB student. To me this suggests guilt, and also suggests Deepak knew of the impending crimes that would be committed"

The only reason I can think of for them to continue is that she was drugged already. They had drinks in the car according to the statements. When Deepak changed the direction his car was going in because he saw the visiblity team, he did not want the visiblity team to see the drinks in the car and Natalee in a drugged state. ?  So, they continue with the plan of pre meditated rape. They had done this 20x before, nothing bad had ever come of it. They had confidence in that based on their past successes. Girls had complained to the police, nothing had been taken seriously. Tourist girls were likely to never be heard from or seen again.
From the posting from Aruba, we can see that their attitude is that she got in the car , she was in Carlos and Charlies, she was friendly, she had a drink or two, therefore, she wanted it. Deepak even said she wanted to be with us. The attitude towards women on Aruba, the police , the status of the Van Der Sloots , their relationship with Jan Van Der Stratten , these things were in place and the whole plan of Joran, Satish and Deepak worked well for them. The system on Aruba is complicit to these events taking place.
The only fly in this ointment was Beth and Jug and their hasty flight to Aruba. No one ever could have predicted that and the resulting sh*t storm unleashed.

[Grande]

Does anyone have the Jerry Strawberry / Beach assailant comparison photo readily accessible?

Thanks in advance,
Grande

[Anna]

.
San,
Joran was wearing black pants so I wonder if anything would show until they were put in the laundry?  Do you think the "sand" in Deepak's car that he had to remove was also talking about blood instead of sand?

Also, Ernie Rizzo was involved in this inveatigation at one point working on behalf of the Sloots but I have forgotten who hired him to do so.   Anyone remember?  Was it Joe T?



.

[blah]

Does anyone have the Jerry Strawberry / Beach assailant comparison photo readily accessible?

Thanks in advance,
Grande

that is something that also needs to be sent to DeVries as well as Gottenbos school/community

[Anna]

.
Does anyone have confirmation from the MB student that she spoke to him from the car?  Or did he just see them driving away with her and yell for her to get out of the car?  Did this really happen or is it a Depak/Paulus fabrication.  I don't recall which MB student said he spoke to her.

.

[Grande]

If anyone would like Jennifer Fornaro's email address contact me via Klaasend.  I have exchanged some emails with her, however if someone would assist me in getting her to offer more details regarding the bone found off of Arashi last July...

WE NEED TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON...

And for those that may have something to offer, we need to remind them of the impact this is having on the Aruban economy.   ARE THE VDS' WORTH THE NEGATIVE PUBLICITY AND THE LOSS IN REVENUE??

[Red]

New Front Page Post:

Oduber still met with Nicolai: To be a Fly on the Wall in that Meeting between Aruba & The Netherlands

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/10/24/oduber-still-met-with-nicolai-to-be-a-fly-on-the-wall-in-that-meeting-between-aruba-the-netherlands/

[Anna]

The cops have to recognize Jerry Strawberry/Cheramy Croes if we do.  They just don't intend to do anything because after all the woman was on the beach so she asked for it.  Why else would she be jogging?  

And jogging in Aruba I'll bet she was wearing shorts, too.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Grande's quote...

"Deepak clearly remembers the exchange between Natalee and the other MB'ers after leaving. He even went as far as saying he suggested that Natalee get out and 'go with her friends' after being summoned by the male MB student. To me this suggests guilt, and also suggests Deepak knew of the impending crimes that would be committed"

The only reason I can think of for them to continue is that she was drugged already. They had drinks in the car according to the statements. When Deepak changed the direction his car was going in because he saw the visiblity team, he did not want the visiblity team to see the drinks in the car and Natalee in a drugged state. ?  So, they continue with the plan of pre meditated rape. They had done this 20x before, nothing bad had ever come of it. They had confidence in that based on their past successes. Girls had complained to the police, nothing had been taken seriously. Tourist girls were likely to never be heard from or seen again.
From the posting from Aruba, we can see that their attitude is that she got in the car , she was in Carlos and Charlies, she was friendly, she had a drink or two, therefore, she wanted it. Deepak even said she wanted to be with us. The attitude towards women on Aruba, the police , the status of the Van Der Sloots , their relationship with Jan Van Der Stratten , these things were in place and the whole plan of Joran, Satish and Deepak worked well for them. The system on Aruba is complicit to these events taking place.
The only fly in this ointment was Beth and Jug and their hasty flight to Aruba. No one ever could have predicted that and the resulting sh*t storm unleashed.

In addition to Grande's quote and your commentary, let us not forget the comment Deepak made about Natalee on the notorious tape, where he used sl*t to describe her attire and her behavior, etc.  

Forgive me for not pulling up the exact quote before posting....

[sharon]

Good morning friends....

(snipped)

Sunfreak's quote...

"I still think Natalee tried to run at the lighthouse, but her legs were wobbly and she only got as far as the rocks before she tripped or someone tackled her. She was terribly cut and bleeding. They packed her back in the car, drove to the pond to wash up a bit and decide what to do with her. Either they dropped her at the huts with joran, or they dropped them at Joran's apt. I think she was alive for hours after the head injury. She was able to walk with assistance and talk. I think she was bleeding slowly in her head and between the booze, the drugs slipped her and the increasing pressure in her brain, she slipped in unconciousness and then she stopped breathing."


and blah.....I live on Maui for some time and you can hear the waves from a distance....especially at night.....

Mere

Good to see you MeMere!

I think Sunfreak's theory about 'how' it happened is spot on.

It's the first thing that came to mind the first few days -- when we heard they took her to the lighthouse before dropping her off. That she got hurt trying to run away from them

I also thought there was a possibility that she 'fell' over an edge into the water since she was not familiar with the area and she was impaired.

I've also thought that some of the 'alibi' stuff was SOP. They did this 20 times before. I feel that they had an 'alibi' package already set in the event any of the previous 20 decided to try to file charges. Remember Deepak's comments -- yada yada yada -- and they can check my phone records. Very rehearsed.

I think a lot of the alibi was preplanned -- but this time was different. Something bad happened.

And I agree -- I live in south Florida (on Biscayne Bay though -- no waves) and I've been a 'beach' person my whole life. Hawaii, Caribbean, New Jersey, Florida, California ..... There's nothing more peaceful than being 'near' the beach, sleeping with the windows open and listening to the waves -- crashing or lapping -- onto the shore. zzzzzzzzzz

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/06/earlyshow/main919948.shtml

(CBS) It's been just over four months since Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway vanished during a school trip to Aruba, and the three young suspects in her disappearance are no longer in custody.

CBS News correspondent Tracy Smith reports that a just-released audiotaped interview with one of the suspects holds some revealing details about what may have happened to Natalee.

In the months following Holloway's disappearance, investigators descended on the island of Aruba looking for clues. One of them was Jamie Skeeters, a polygraph expert, hired by the "Dr. Phil" show.

In August, Skeeters talked to Deepak Kalpoe on tape. Kalpoe, his brother Satish and friend Joran van der Sloot were the last people seen with Holloway.

This is how Deepak Kalpoe described Holloway:

"To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one, too," he said. "Would go into a car with three strange guys, and her mother, claiming her to be the goody-two-shoes. Enough with this BS already."
When Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty, talked to The Early Show's Hannah Storm last week, she shared her suspicions about what happened to her daughter.

"I know this is really difficult for you to talk about, but you do believe that she was sexually assaulted. Is that correct?" Storm asked.

"Absolutely," Twitty said.

But Deepak Kalpoe had a different version. When an investigator asked if she had sex with all three, he responded, "She did. You'd be surprised how easy it was."

Twitty thinks it is a possibility that she could have been drugged. But if Hollway was drugged, Deepak Kalpoe said he did not do it.

"Let me ask you this," Skeeters said to Deepak Kalpoe. "I hear you can pay a bartender to slip a date rape drug in her drink."

"I've never drugged someone," Deepak Kalpoe said.

"Have you heard that happen?" Skeeters asked.

"I haven't heard the bartender story," Deepak Kalpoe said. "I have heard the drug ecstasy. I've heard they slip that into drinks."

But Deepak Kalpoe offered no clues as to where to find Holloway.

"If I knew were the body is, I would tell them a long time ago," Deepak Kalpoe said. "Let them start the trial and get this over with. I don't care."

While the outpouring of support for Holloway's family has been tremendous, Deepak Kalpoe said he is increasingly alone.

"I don't have any close friends anymore. They are all gone," he said.

"Really, because of this?" Skeeters asked.

"Everything is empty," Deepak Kalpoe said.

But this may not be the last we hear from Deepak Kalpoe. Prosecutors still consider all three men suspects in the disappearance of Holloway.


©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[justinsmama]

No I didn't say call up Merri Maids.  They either had another maid or someone they know very well had their maid come over thinking it was just another job.  She did her usual cleaning (wash clothes, sheets, etc) and found Joran pants with blood on them.  At the time she probably thought nothing of it because Joran is a boy and she probably figured he got into a fight or something else.  When news got out about who was involved she but two and two together and figured that Joran did something bad to Natalee.  This is not unusual.  On that POS island it is pretty easy to make someone shut up we have been watching them do it for more than a year and a half now.

SO I'M STICKING WITH THERE WAS BLOOD ON JORAN'S PANTS.

I know that you were not saying that, San. I was exaggerating to demonstrate how pathetic the Sloots and that dirty little island are. They are stupid and arrogant and collude.

[2NJSons_Mom]

To be clear, my point is to support Grande's post that Deepak has displayed guilt.  The defensiveness in the statement I bolded from the Skeeters tape can be interpreted as guilt.  If innocent, why slander the missing Natalee?   If not involved, again, why direct anger toward her at this point?   Why not Joran, who by this time was supposed to have been the last to be with her, or others who played a part?  It doesn't fit for me.  jmho

[the big hammer]

Consent VS Kidnapping

Grande writes: "Deepak clearly remembers the exchange between Natalee and the other MB'ers after leaving. He even went as far as saying he suggested that Natalee get out and 'go with her friends' after being summoned by the male MB student. To me this suggests guilt, and also suggests Deepak knew of the impending crimes that would be committed"

I realize now that the threesome did not need to wait for the family to arrive on the island to develop an alibi...they knew immediately that they would be fingered by at least one MB student for whatever they did.....only a fool would continue....if anything happened to Natalee...kidnapping, rape, ???....here were American  witnesses......someone with an IQ of 10 would have taken her right to the HI.....

This is a great post, and an important insight.

IMO, the meeting exchange w/ MB male student when Natalee was in car and leaving the C&C scene, was highlighted by deepak in statements to avoid a kidnapping/abduction rap.  By testifying that Natalee was "willingly" in the car, the chances of "proving" kidnapping are lowered significantly.  Deepak is trying to insulate himself, and by extension, the other two, from these serious charges.

HOWEVER, as you point out, deepak and his car are now fingered and likely positively ID'd as last to be seen w/ Natalee.  The MB student saw them.  With this knowledge available to all 3, why would they proceed with a criminal plan?

Deepak, as more experienced and older perp, claims to stop the car and further claims to invite Natalee to leave the vehicle (both in statement and e-mail) -- why?  Because since he has been ID'd, there's significantly less chance that the nite's festivities proceed unhindered.  BUT, Natalee did not exit the vehicle, as we know.

SO YES!!  They knew they needed an alibi, even before they left Orangstead right after C&C's closed.  

But given this, and as noted above, why do you think they proceeded w/ a criminal plan after being ID'd?  Just stupid and gassed up?  Or some other reason:  other factors compelled them to proceed?

[Grande]

To be clear, my point is to support Grande's post that Deepak has displayed guilt.  The defensiveness in the statement I bolded from the Skeeters tape can be interpreted as guilt.  If innocent, why slander the missing Natalee?   If not involved, again, why direct anger toward her at this point?   Why not Joran, who by this time was supposed to have been the last to be with her, or others who played a part?  It doesn't fit for me.  jmho

I had a hard time trying to articulate my point last night.  In any event I appreciate your consideration and support.    

Deepak made MULTIPLE attempts to portray himself as a 'good guy'.  WHY would he have to do that?  Clearly that is NOT the case.