Lively Case Discussion #535 10/22 - 10/23/2006

[klaasend]

http://www.nashspeakers.com/cgi-bin/speakers/display.pl?speaker=1005



NASHVILLE SPEAKERS BUREAU

Beth Twitty
OCCUPATION:
Teacher

TRAVELS FROM:
Alabama

EVENT TYPES OR TOPICS:
Civic Groups, College, Motivational/Inspirational, Public School, Youth, Safety & Security

FEE:
Call Us

[nonesuche]

Thanks Klaas-

Glad to know she has representation and hopefully these speaking engagements assist her in repairing her heart to some degree. Giving back can help, so I'm hopeful it does.

[Mere]

From Hammer's post:  "SHE'S HAD ENOUGH" -- but I don't think it had anything to do with the porn."

I don't either.....I wonder if it had something to do with additional drugs they administered in the car....perhaps something on a cloth that was held over her face.....or if it had to do with whatever forced sexual activities were occurring....

I agree MeMere which makes me wonder sadly, what she endured? Was she in pain?

None...anytime anyone is taken against their will...by strangers....who are willing to rape and perhaps more....that person endures more than most of us are willing to think about....this case has made us look at and think about the underbelly of society....not a nice thing...but I have learned much....and I will be here until there are answers....

[nonesuche]

I agree MeMere, it's so painful to think of those realities, isn't it?

My daughter was attacked and we feel it would have led to rape had she not escaped and been smart enough to know what to do, but she was not drugged and jogging and an athlete - all of that weighed in her favor.

Despite escaping it impacted her greatly for over a year, her psyche and her ability to trust or to feel safe. I am convinced Natalee never saw this coming, it breaks my heart, might have been my child and I never forget that.

[San]

Anna, is it confirmed that Joran had black pants on.  Also, if they are black you can still see blood.  Especially if they were washed a few times and were faded a little.  These kids today wear all kinds of black pants especially the ones that are faded a little.

San,
Yes, I believe Joran said in one of his statements he was wearing black pants.  You are right for some of the black is so faded especially in all cotton as to be very light in color.  I did not mean she could not tell it was there for the blood would dry stiff as a board if there was a lot of it.  Just thinking out loud more along the lines that Paulus or even Joran might not notice it so much or might think the maid would not on the black pants.

Not feeling the best and too lazy to type!  But I do agree with you on this and also think sand on a sandy island would not be worth mentioning.  We have a great deal of sand in our soil oddly enough here this far inland and it is just taken for granted.  Don't think anybody would say sand on pants as if they are dirty it is more or less to be expected.  But some of the best watermelons in the world are grown here.  The sand Scratches the heck out of hardwood floors, too, BTW.

Now Anna you made me raise my eyebrow here.  You are not believing Joran right.  He is a liar.  If you say green he will say red.  I bet he had blue jeans on just like the ones he was wearing in the picture on the dance floor.

[the big hammer]

Heavy Battery

MeMere writes: "...I wonder if it had something to do with additional drugs they administered in the car....perhaps something on a cloth that was held over her face.....or if it had to do with whatever forced sexual activities were occurring...."

A review of the numerous felony offenses the Aruban prosecutor's office charged Guido Wever with is instructive.

What was the gay, make-up wearing, third rate tennis player, failed croupier, graduation-skipping, Aruba fleeing and now-aspiring male model up to for ALE and Prosecutor to single Guido out for the charge of "heavy battery"?

SHE'S HAD ENOUGH.

Where's a good lawyer who outs his own client while simultaneously flinging deranged Nazi epithets when you need one, eh Guido?

.

[msmarple]

Ok, so the sketch may have been done by the FBI and it is a sketch of the person who attacked her.  Gee, wonder why Cheremy hasn't been brought in for questioning?  

Because - it's Aruba? she was "only assaulted"? boys will be boys? he has a mental problem?

OR - maybe he was questioned. He explained that he couldn't remember. With ALE, that'll work.

[SunFreak2]

Heavy Battery

MeMere writes: "...I wonder if it had something to do with additional drugs they administered in the car....perhaps something on a cloth that was held over her face.....or if it had to do with whatever forced sexual activities were occurring....".

Remember the evidence found in the Colony.  The spray bottle and cloth.  We never heard anymore about them  I guess they went into the evidence box that was thrown in the incinerator.

[Anna]

[Now Anna you made me raise my eyebrow here.  You are not believing Joran right.  He is a liar.  If you say green he will say red.  I bet he had blue jeans on just like the ones he was wearing in the picture on the dance floor.

As usual, you are right San.  What was I thinking??   I am just not used to the idea of people lying to the police but it's not even against the law in Aruba if you are a suspect.

And furthermore, remember his first statement seems to be missing so the first one we have for him is much later than the Kalpoes, something like June 9 and by them he had time to sort it all out and put the fabrications in place.  

.

[SunFreak2]

And furthermore, remember his first statement seems to be missing so the first one we have for him is much later than the Kalpoes, something like June 9 and by them he had time to sort it all out and put the fabrications in place.  

.

If the police were tracking them, didn't they find it suspicious when the Kalpoes went to the vd Sloots every day.  Did they just tap the cell phones or did they tap the land lines too?  I think all that tracking stuff was just hooey.  It was a ruse to give them time to get their stories together and the evidence disposed of.

[San]

And furthermore, remember his first statement seems to be missing so the first one we have for him is much later than the Kalpoes, something like June 9 and by them he had time to sort it all out and put the fabrications in place.  

.

If the police were tracking them, didn't they find it suspicious when the Kalpoes went to the vd Sloots every day.  Did they just tap the cell phones or did they tap the land lines too?  I think all that tracking stuff was just hooey.  It was a ruse to give them time to get their stories together and the evidence disposed of.

BINGO.  I bet the police even gave the Kalpoes a ride to the Sloots while the carpet in their car were being replaced.

[the big hammer]

Tactical Maneuvers

SunFreak2 writes: "If the police were tracking them, didn't they find it suspicious when the Kalpoes went to the vd Sloots every day. Did they just tap the cell phones or did they tap the land lines too? I think all that tracking stuff was just hooey. It was a ruse to give them time to get their stories together and the evidence disposed of."

Indeed.  It seems as though ALE's "tactical maneuvers" fell short.  But I do think there was a whole lot of maneuvering going on.

From Paulus' statement:

*******************************************

"...About 8.30 hours I was called by one of the guards in the hall
of the justice building and he told me that Jan van der Straten wanted
to talk to me. I took Jan van der Straten up to my room and there Jan van der Straten asked me if I could pick up Joran from school and bring him over to the police-station in Bubali. Jan said that it was wisest to do this immediately....

...I also was in almost daily contact with Jan van der STRATEN. I did not doubt the truthfulness of their story for one second. When we talked about the girl, we discussed what could happen if the girl would not re-appear. I was under the impression that the boys assumed that she would re-appear sooner or later. Af course we also discussed what if the girl did not re-appear....

....From what little information I got from Jan van der STRATEN, I got some hope that the girl was seen after she was dropped off at the Holiday Inn. He did not say this in so many words but I took that as an explanation as to why the boys weren't asked to give further statements to the police...."

*********************************************

Looks like part of those tactics are on display right here:

1.  Instead of apprehending the perp, the Chief of Polis pays a personal visit to PVDS's office to ebcourge an appearance at the polis station in Bulbai to offer a "witness" statement.

2.  The future suspect, pvds, is in daily conatct with polis chief van der Straaten -- DAILY CONTACT.  Let's put aside the obvious conflicts here to ponder this for a moment.  Is paulus "name dropping" here -- you know to inspire fear among the lowly interrogators that he, paulus, speaks daily with their ultimate superior, the vaunted Aruban polis chief?  Or is Paulus doing something else, like warning van der Straaten (and others) that he can pull the whole facade down by putting on the record daily conversations and leaving out the meat of the subject matter?  Paulus did not have to say this -- yet he did, and I think he's putting the polis chief on notice about who's going down here, and it ain't him and it ain't joran.

3.  There's part of your answer about the polis "tactical manuevers" -- according to paulus they stopped pursuing jk2 for further questioning because van der Straaten believed that Natalee was sighted AFTER she was dropped off at the HI, and was therefore a runaway or similar: AND THEREFORE NOT kidnapped, murdered, etc.  Sounds like van der Straaten is channeling Steve Croes.  Wasn't it Steve who came forward to say that he saw the drop off at the HI...?  Gollywillikers!  Wonder who put Steve up to that?

These Aruban polis and their tactical maneuvers..."playing cops and robbers."

This would be silly if it weren't true, and to think a life was lost while these clowns conspired.

.

[San]

Remember the evidence found in the Colony.  The spray bottle and cloth.  We never heard anymore about them  I guess they went into the evidence box that was thrown in the incinerator.

Every time I see the picture of the glasses I think of psycho Joran in the police car smiling with his glasses on.  He makes me sick.  You can just tell how sick and evil he really is.

[SunFreak2]

Every time I see the picture of the glasses I think of psycho Joran in the police car smiling with his glasses on.  He makes me sick.  You can just tell how sick and evil he really is.

He looks demonic!

[mrs. red]

Hi Monkeys... been reading... WOW...

[Carnut]

Hi Monkeys... been reading... WOW...

You've been reading? WOW!!!

[mrs. red]

Hi Monkeys... been reading... WOW...

You've been reading? WOW!!!

well I don't know if I can add anything to what has been said... just wow lots of hard work and lots of thoughts that I so totally agree with...

[Carnut]

Hi Monkeys... been reading... WOW...

You've been reading? WOW!!!

well I don't know if I can add anything to what has been said... just wow lots of hard work and lots of thoughts that I so totally agree with...

Ah shucks, you didn't get it.

[mrs. red]

I got it... just chose to shall we say... not take the bait??    

[Carnut]

I got it... just chose to shall we say... not take the bait??    

Ok, that's better, I was sooo dejected at my wit and charm not being recognized.