Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 - 3/6/09

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

Thanks Jen.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Petrobras-Statoil deal paves way for biofuels collaboration
14-09-07 Statoil and the Brazilian oil company Petrobras have signed a long-term strategic collaboration agreement for exploration and production as well as biofuels

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnl74183.htm

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

If Tim Miller thought something "Hinky" was going on.. It confuses me,as to why,he associates himself with these people.I completely understand the ultimate goal is to do whatever to find missing people but with these opportunists???

Keepthefaith ... I have been avoiding going there but ... my "hinky" meter tells me that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller may have benefited or are benefitting in some capacity from John Silvetti and/or Louis Schaefer in return for their silence in regards to their sincere concerns/frustrations/suspicions that encompass the recovery process of January 7, 2008.

I hope I am wrong.

My "hinky" meter tells me that Kyle Kingman's own words to both the Natalee's Freebirds' and the Scared Monkeys sites regarding the recovery process of January 7th should have resulted in a lawsuit by John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer.  Instead Kyle is being afforded career opportunities ... something akin to the Egypt project of last summer.

My "hinky" meter tells me that all those who are upholding the credibility of John Silvetti ... should be negating at Kyle Kingman own words.  Instead it is the messengers who are negated ... the messengers who dared to expose those Kyle's words that explose the Persistence deception.  It does not make sense.

As of yesterday ... John Silvetti's sister was upholding the "entire" crew of the Persistence in her correspondence to Debbie at BFN.  If John was my brother and ... I believed that Kyle Kingman defaming him ... I would not be upholding Kyle.

 

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

If Tim Miller thought something "Hinky" was going on.. It confuses me,as to why,he associates himself with these people.I completely understand the ultimate goal is to do whatever to find missing people but with these opportunists???

Keepthefaith ... I have been avoiding going there but ... my "hinky" meter tells me that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller may have benefited or are benefitting in some capacity from John Silvetti and/or Louis Schaefer in return for their silence in regards to their sincere concerns/frustrations/suspicions that encompass the recovery process of January 7, 2008.

I hope I am wrong.

My "hinky" meter tells me that Kyle Kingman's own words to both the Natalee's Freebirds' and the Scared Monkeys sites regarding the recovery process of January 7th should have resulted in a lawsuit by John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer.  Instead Kyle is being afforded career opportunities ... something akin to the Egypt project of last summer.

My "hinky" meter tells me that all those who are upholding the credibility of John Silvetti ... should be negating at Kyle Kingman own words.  Instead it is the messengers who are negated ... the messengers who dared to expose those Kyle's words that explose the Persistence deception.  It does not make sense.

As of yesterday ... John Silvetti's sister was upholding the "entire" crew of the Persistence in her correspondence to Debbie at BFN.  If John was my brother and ... I believed that Kyle Kingman defaming him ... I would not be upholding Kyle.

 

Janet

I agree Janet!From Kyle's own mouth.He an Tim Miller's Hinky Meters were going OFF THE CHARTS as to what was happening.What suddenly occured to make them think otherwise??

As well.I know some of the OIL conglomerate stuff is redundant but,i truly believe in time,the TRUTH will reveal itself through Kyle's own words,as well as contracts.From the Little reading i've done on this OIL stuff.I don't believe that Natalee Holloway was the goal per se...JMOO.In terms of contracts in that area.It's off the charts.GOLDMINE.Spend 4 months down there mapping the ocean floor,as well as making business contacts could net these OPPORTUNIST MILLIONS,if not HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and TAX FREE COMPANIES set up courtesy of anybody offshore!This is all just MOO!

[caesu]

another 5-star hotel may be build on Aruba

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53422.php

so first Ritz-Carlton. and now another one, which hotel chain isn't made public.

[Magnolia]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

If Tim Miller thought something "Hinky" was going on.. It confuses me,as to why,he associates himself with these people.I completely understand the ultimate goal is to do whatever to find missing people but with these opportunists???

Keepthefaith ... I have been avoiding going there but ... my "hinky" meter tells me that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller may have benefited or are benefitting in some capacity from John Silvetti and/or Louis Schaefer in return for their silence in regards to their sincere concerns/frustrations/suspicions that encompass the recovery process of January 7, 2008.

I hope I am wrong.

My "hinky" meter tells me that Kyle Kingman's own words to both the Natalee's Freebirds' and the Scared Monkeys sites regarding the recovery process of January 7th should have resulted in a lawsuit by John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer.  Instead Kyle is being afforded career opportunities ... something akin to the Egypt project of last summer.

My "hinky" meter tells me that all those who are upholding the credibility of John Silvetti ... should be negating at Kyle Kingman own words.  Instead it is the messengers who are negated ... the messengers who dared to expose those Kyle's words that explose the Persistence deception.  It does not make sense.

As of yesterday ... John Silvetti's sister was upholding the "entire" crew of the Persistence in her correspondence to Debbie at BFN.  If John was my brother and ... I believed that Kyle Kingman defaming him ... I would not be upholding Kyle.

 

Janet

My 'hinky meter' has been going off about this for some time.  I want to be wrong.
We must remember though that Silvetti sent Tim Miller off the boat because he was a liability.
I believe that Tim's suspicion was the liability.
I hope that Tim Miller continues to work with these people because he will take help anywhere
he can find it.....even from those he does not trust.

[Magnolia]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

If Tim Miller thought something "Hinky" was going on.. It confuses me,as to why,he associates himself with these people.I completely understand the ultimate goal is to do whatever to find missing people but with these opportunists???

Keepthefaith ... I have been avoiding going there but ... my "hinky" meter tells me that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller may have benefited or are benefitting in some capacity from John Silvetti and/or Louis Schaefer in return for their silence in regards to their sincere concerns/frustrations/suspicions that encompass the recovery process of January 7, 2008.

I hope I am wrong.

My "hinky" meter tells me that Kyle Kingman's own words to both the Natalee's Freebirds' and the Scared Monkeys sites regarding the recovery process of January 7th should have resulted in a lawsuit by John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer.  Instead Kyle is being afforded career opportunities ... something akin to the Egypt project of last summer.

My "hinky" meter tells me that all those who are upholding the credibility of John Silvetti ... should be negating at Kyle Kingman own words.  Instead it is the messengers who are negated ... the messengers who dared to expose those Kyle's words that explose the Persistence deception.  It does not make sense.

As of yesterday ... John Silvetti's sister was upholding the "entire" crew of the Persistence in her correspondence to Debbie at BFN.  If John was my brother and ... I believed that Kyle Kingman defaming him ... I would not be upholding Kyle.

 

Janet

My 'hinky meter' has been going off about this for some time.  I want to be wrong.
We must remember though that Silvetti sent Tim Miller off the boat because he was a liability.
I believe that Tim's suspicion was the liability.
I hope that the reason Tim Miller continues to work with these people is because he will take help anywhere
he can find it.....even from those he does not trust.

I edited my own post.

[Magnolia]

another 5-star hotel may be build on Aruba

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53422.php

so first Ritz-Carlton. and now another one, which hotel chain isn't made public.

They can't fill the hotels that they have now.  Why two new ones?

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit/Jen

Was the "Tim" who was referred to in the following quote ... Miller or Trahan.

Thank you

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Janet - that would be Tim Miller.

If Tim Miller thought something "Hinky" was going on.. It confuses me,as to why,he associates himself with these people.I completely understand the ultimate goal is to do whatever to find missing people but with these opportunists???

Keepthefaith ... I have been avoiding going there but ... my "hinky" meter tells me that both Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller may have benefited or are benefitting in some capacity from John Silvetti and/or Louis Schaefer in return for their silence in regards to their sincere concerns/frustrations/suspicions that encompass the recovery process of January 7, 2008.

I hope I am wrong.

My "hinky" meter tells me that Kyle Kingman's own words to both the Natalee's Freebirds' and the Scared Monkeys sites regarding the recovery process of January 7th should have resulted in a lawsuit by John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer.  Instead Kyle is being afforded career opportunities ... something akin to the Egypt project of last summer.

My "hinky" meter tells me that all those who are upholding the credibility of John Silvetti ... should be negating at Kyle Kingman own words.  Instead it is the messengers who are negated ... the messengers who dared to expose those Kyle's words that explose the Persistence deception.  It does not make sense.

As of yesterday ... John Silvetti's sister was upholding the "entire" crew of the Persistence in her correspondence to Debbie at BFN.  If John was my brother and ... I believed that Kyle Kingman defaming him ... I would not be upholding Kyle.

 

Janet

I agree Janet!From Kyle's own mouth.He an Tim Miller's Hinky Meters were going OFF THE CHARTS as to what was happening.What suddenly occured to make them think otherwise??

As well.I know some of the OIL conglomerate stuff is redundant but,i truly believe in time,the TRUTH will reveal itself through Kyle's own words,as well as contracts.From the Little reading i've done on this OIL stuff.I don't believe that Natalee Holloway was the goal per se...JMOO.In terms of contracts in that area.It's off the charts.GOLDMINE.Spend 4 months down there mapping the ocean floor,as well as making business contacts could net these OPPORTUNIST MILLIONS,if not HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and TAX FREE COMPANIES set up courtesy of anybody offshore!This is all just MOO!

I agree.

However ... I believe that Kyle Kingman was under the impression that the Persistence undertaking was deceptively two fold.  His position on board the Persistence dictated he was aware of one side of the venture ... mapping targets for oil.  However ... I believe he truly thought the second side of the venture was to keep a lookout for a container that could hold Natalee Holloway's remains.

Think about it.  It was Kyle Kingman who located what appeared to be something significant on the sonar and ... insisted on the December 29th ROV dive.  The images from that dive were shared with Tim Miller and ... both were convinced that the contents of that trap were case related.

I believe that at this point that John Silvetti and the Arubans went into damage control.  The agenda of the December 30th meeting was to pull off the dive by convincing Dateline America that the trap was not case related.

John Silvetti and the Arubans had not anticipated Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller role in the deception of the Persistence undertaking that was not two fold at all.  Locating Natalee Holloway's remains was only an illusion to use TES ... a credible organization ... as a means to fraudulantly raise funds.

Oh, the tangled webs we weave When we practice to deceive.
Sir Walter Scott

Janet

_______


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

[Tamikosmom]

I am off for a while.

Later Monkeys

Janet
1:00 PM PT

[Lifesong]

another 5-star hotel may be build on Aruba

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53422.php

so first Ritz-Carlton. and now another one, which hotel chain isn't made public.

They can't fill the hotels that they have now.  Why two new ones?

I agree.  Wth? 

A new port and 2 new 5-star hotels. 

Wow.

I wonder if the hotels will have casinos? 

[Keepthefaith]

another 5-star hotel may be build on Aruba

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_53422.php

so first Ritz-Carlton. and now another one, which hotel chain isn't made public.

They can't fill the hotels that they have now.  Why two new ones?

I agree.  Wth? 

A new port and 2 new 5-star hotels. 

Wow.

I wonder if the hotels will have casinos? 

 

[Keepthefaith]

Shell hopes to take part in Venezuelan offshore exploration
31-05-06 Anglo-Dutch energy major Royal Dutch Shell still has "hopes" of taking part in either the Mariscal Sucre offshore gas exploration and production project in Venezuela or the new blocks to be offered off the country's eastern coast.
Also it has hopes in a project to upgrade extra-heavy Orinoco crude, Shell Venezuela president Sean Rooney was quoted as saying.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnl62506.htm

[Lifesong]

I am just not suspicious of Tim Miller.  I don't think he gives one hoot for the riches of this world.  I believe he is wealthy beyond Louis Schaefer's dreams in the next one!

Dr. Hodges, Tim Miller and Dave Holloway were in constant communication on the 29th and 30th.

12/29/2007
Dr. Andrew G. Hodges of Forensic Thoughtprints arrives in Aruba on his second trip to meet with the Persistence search crew:  “Throughout this visit I maintained regular telephone contact with Tim Miller on the boat and Dave Holloway back in Mississippi as we monitored the search.”

12/30/2007
Tim Miller:  “In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.”

So far, there's nothing in the record that shows anyone else on that ship on 12/29 had any experience whatsoever identifying human skeletal remains.  Including Kyle.  Tim Miller knew what he saw, imo.  He didn't need Kyle to tell him anything, what Kyle told him only confirmed what he already knew. 

I've never thought Tim only called Dave once and said 'we found her'.  There had to be lots of calls.  On the 30th, Tim was still the only person on our side that had any experience identifying human skeletal remains. 

Kyle Kingman:  "After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.  The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.  Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site..."

But, wait a minute, Kyle has that out of order.  It should be:

• the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.
• Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site..."
• The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

However Tim left the ship, I'm sure Dave had full knowledge of it.  Just after that, they were told it would 10-14 days.  Meanwhile, Tim and Dave are sent on a wild goose chase in Nicaragua and the trap is cleaned out earlier than planned.

Tim Miller is above reproach, imo.  We have a lot of suspicions and conjecture, but we still don't have the facts of what actually happened, so we don't have any idea how Silvetti could still be on good terms with Tim and Dave.  That will never make me question Tim's commitment to bringing Natalee home.

JMO and only MO

[Keepthefaith]

http://www.splashvision.com/tags/Video/20238_Superior-Achiever.html

A video,of the maiden voyage,of the Superior Achiever.Where is this ship now??

[hotping]

Good Afternoon Monkeys.......I've got a question... Is.... Acergy... one of the companies that We need to research?....I have a hard time keeping up with all the different names.....   TIA

[Lifesong]

I am just not suspicious of Tim Miller.  I don't think he gives one hoot for the riches of this world.  I believe he is wealthy beyond Louis Schaefer's dreams in the next one!

Dr. Hodges, Tim Miller and Dave Holloway were in constant communication on the 29th and 30th.

12/29/2007
Dr. Andrew G. Hodges of Forensic Thoughtprints arrives in Aruba on his second trip to meet with the Persistence search crew:  “Throughout this visit I maintained regular telephone contact with Tim Miller on the boat and Dave Holloway back in Mississippi as we monitored the search.”

12/30/2007
Tim Miller:  “In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.”

So far, there's nothing in the record that shows anyone else on that ship on 12/29 had any experience whatsoever identifying human skeletal remains.  Including Kyle.  Tim Miller knew what he saw, imo.  He didn't need Kyle to tell him anything, what Kyle told him only confirmed what he already knew. 

I've never thought Tim only called Dave once and said 'we found her'.  There had to be lots of calls.  On the 30th, Tim was still the only person on our side that had any experience identifying human skeletal remains. 

Kyle Kingman:  "After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.  The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.  Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site..."

But, wait a minute, Kyle has that out of order.  It should be:

• the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap.  There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand.
• Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site..."
• The talks continued after Jan-7th when the samples were collected.

However Tim left the ship, I'm sure Dave had full knowledge of it.  Just after that, they were told it would 10-14 days.  Meanwhile, Tim and Dave are sent on a wild goose chase in Nicaragua and the trap is cleaned out earlier than planned.

Tim Miller is above reproach, imo.  We have a lot of suspicions and conjecture, but we still don't have the facts of what actually happened, so we don't have any idea how Silvetti could still be on good terms with Tim and Dave.  That will never make me question Tim's commitment to bringing Natalee home.

JMO and only MO

Edit to add:
The record so far shows only 4 people knew about the hidden ROV footage from the Jan. 7th removal of evidence.  Three of them were trying to sell it for profit before showing it to the family, that is: Kyle Kingman, Tim Trahan, and Louis Schaefer.

To my mind, Silvetti has two things going for him and those are Tim Miller's continued association and he was not part of the scheme to sell the videos.

He really only has all of Kyle's statements going against him, so I wholeheartedly agree with Janet that I don't understand both Kyle and Silvetti being upheld together...Kyle threw him under the bus![/b]

[wreck]

If it wasn't for "Dateline" -- we wouldn't have even heard of the "trap"!!!!! 

[hotping]

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s3i48837

This is one Sick article....

Joran Van der Sloot Named Spokesman for Mexican Spring Break PR Campaign!

[Magnolia]

http://www.splashvision.com/tags/Video/20238_Superior-Achiever.html

A video,of the maiden voyage,of the Superior Achiever.Where is this ship now??

Here is a bunch of information on the Achiever:

http://www.merwede.com/index.php?id=2624