Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 - 3/6/09

[Lifesong]

I think the trap makes sense only in that it would prevent the body from washing back up on shore.

[texasmom]

The search was originally supposed to be for two to three weeks.

Not sure when it was extended so.  Maybe when Dolphi tripled the area to be searched?

Not that I think Dolph is on our side, not at all, but I think we only have Kyle's word to go on that Dolph was the one saying to go out farther.  Silvetti could have conveniently said it was because of that tip, but I think that's complete BS.  They'd take a relatively small boat that far out at night to an area called by the locals "don't go there" due to the instability of the weather & water conditions there?  On a tip that Deepak said this to a friend while they were doing drugs?  BS  BS   BS   BS  I don't even begin to believe that tip, if it was a tip it was pre-arranged as part of the final plan (and even I don't think that makes sense either!)  I can't imagine that Deepak would that - I'm not convinced Deepak even knew where the remains were.

But ALE knew...they had the coordinate.

Btw, the grid was tripled almost immediately after the remains were taken from the cage.  Mission accomplished - let's map!      

I agree Lifesong.  

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

Goodnight everyone!   

[WhiskeyGirl]

Have the monkeys figured out why anyone would map that side of the island?  Any evidence that there is something of commercial value there?  With the U.S. on the road to energy independence, and OPEC with China and India as great customers with rising consumption, who will profit from all this mapping?  Anyone on Aruba report building yet?  Maybe a tidbit in Diario?

[nonesuche]

This article seems to give a wealth of knowledge pertaining to what is going on down there!I believe it is from January of 2006 but is like an amazing power-point presentation as to what's goin on.Scroll down to page 15 Look who is very close to Aruba in the Cardon 3...

http://www.pdvsa.com/interface.en/database/fichero/publicacion/1101/35.PDF

Great find KTF! This tells the big picture and why Oduber has been in discussions with China as well as in bed with Chavez for some time now. Oil and natural gas are perhaps the only 'gold' in an global economy and it's also why characters like Abramovich were setting up operations from Aruba years ago. Remember, one of Abramovich's yachts was docked in Aruba the night Natalee disappeared, he also has his own 737 licensed out of Aruba. He's a russian oligarch that made his fortune from oil and gas in Russia and was noted as having moved to pursue the South American untapped resources to capitalize on those even prior to Natalee's disappearance. Some of the comments by 'anonymous' on michellesaysso's website at the link I posted references even Russian investment in upgrading equipment at the Aruba airport.

What Aruba earns from a tourist economy, even at the height of that prior to Natalee disappearing could not hold a candle to earnings from oil and gas, even as just a partner for operational access if not the oil and gas off Aruba's shores that can be mined.

Was the Persistence a cover for the required mapping that needed to occur but Aruba didn't want the Dutch to know about in advance? If I were Shaefer and looking for economic survival and growth, I would pursue a piece of that Venezuelan and Asian market too. I'm not stating unequivocably that's the truth of the supposed Persistence search for Natalee, but if I were Oduber then I would feel quite sure the Dutch would not wish to bring any further public disapproval by refusing the search to take place?

Even if true, I feel sure Natalee's parents would be less concerned about those goals and just any chance to locate their daughter's remains. Perhaps that's even why others criticize SM pursuing understanding better what the true goal of the Persistence was, I don't know. What I do know is I think the critics have lost sight of line that was crossed - a trap was found that might have contained human remains. If it did not, then exposing that with photos to substantiate that, and full transparency would have been so EASY on the part of Aruba. In fact, they could have even turned that around to state "look what lengths we have gone to in order to find her, to solve this case".

They did not. Hinky, sorry but it's why some here want answers. I am tiring of hearing threats over this to include threats via email to notify my place of employment by one poster now at GM, in an effort to keep me quiet here.

KTF I excerpted this from the PDF you posted and it does tell the story of the future for Aruba and Chavez' grand plan. This should make it abundantly clear to those wondering why Persistence would have wanted a piece of this action. The former CEO of Shaefer's fine outfit Superior he went on to join a company carrying with him a contract with Venezuela he had negotiated and worked on while with Shaefer's outfit ! I'll post that detail too from the lawsuit.

Again, this might not be all of the answers but I surely do think it's part of the answer.

[Anna]

Have the monkeys figured out why anyone would map that side of the island?  Any evidence that there is something of commercial value there?  With the U.S. on the road to energy independence, and OPEC with China and India as great customers with rising consumption, who will profit from all this mapping?  Anyone on Aruba report building yet?  Maybe a tidbit in Diario?

Did you read the PDF that KTF posted?  Many reasons not the least of which would be a clear port for transport of oil products to all points north, west and east.

[San]

I love that your DIL know enough about the case to give her thoughts.

I agree with DIL in that the deal was already struck with Aruba and Silvetti, Scheafer & Trahan

I have two schools of thought about what followed.

1.  They did not expect to find the remains so quickly, if at all.
2.  If the Arubans knew where the remains were prior to the Persistence discovery,
    why had they not already retrieved them?
    I think a further deal was made on the 30th, with added incentive, after the ROV
    dive.  The shock on Hans Mos face shows surprise and concern.

I believe that the Arubans always knew where Natalee's remains were and still are.

I also believe that Hans Mos was shocked because that idiot didn't know where the remain were.  He was brought in for damage control.  His specialty if I recall correctly was Media.  They forgot to fill the dope in on their nasty secret.

Remember that tape Greta is supposed to have that features Paulus and some Colombians?  I have wondered if van der Straten and Paulus and these Colombinas are the ony ones who knew exactly where the remains could have been placed.  Like put on a Colombian fishing boat in that trap then pushed off at that location in the trap?

IMO, at least one ALE detective knew where she was...he and his brother gave the coordinate to the search team...

This is why I go back to the arrests & releases with no real new evidence just before the search.  Rumors of Joran being caught on tape telling a friend what happened before he ever set foot in the Range Rover.

I haven't & can't put it together, and it may be coincidence, time will tell...but I am suspicious that the recovering of her remains by ALE so she could not be found and brought home was the last phase of the Aruban coverup.  They knew the Persistence was coming...

I refuse to believe to until we prove it that these American men were not, at least originally, sincere in their commitment to bring Natalee home if they found her.  Don't know yet what changed or when, but when I read their quotes before the trip - I so want to believe them.  Who has a heart so dark and cold that they could look Dave Holloway in the eye and make those promises if they'd already been bought off?  Idk.

I have never believed there was a "vision".  That is a bunch of BS and the detective knew exactly where Natalee was.

Plenty of peoples hearts are that dark and cold and could do something like that as long as the money was there.  This has always been about follow the money.  People will do anything for it and even betray a family looking so desperately for their daughter.

No one is that dumb to trust the ALE after all these years.  They were in bed with the enemy.

Was the original plan to dive down there say there is nothing in the trap in the presence of one man we all trusted and then that would be the end of the story.  Tim Miller thought there was something in that trap and they didn't fool him.  Their plan backfired.

JMO.

[klaasend]

It seems those that have been banned at SM but are posting at Goldmonkey still want to believe I have posted members email addresses without their permission.

Evidentally they are referring to a quote of a Capslockwizard front page post where Capslock includes his email address in his post.  See post #71 below.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

Sorry but I can not be held responsible for what posters choose to post on their own.  I did not post his email address, Capslockwizard posted it himself.

What really salts my snails is when the one doing the most complaining and wrongly pointing fingers has sent out holiday greetings showing the email addresses of every monkey in their address book, being too lazy/stupid to use the blind copy feature to protect the addresses of others.

Don't get me started on bulk emails 

[jen3560]

Good morning Monkeys!

Lifesong - I believe it was you who posted in the last thread about the different areas off of Venezuela for their long term projects.

Specifically the Caribbean location.

Here is (specifically) where their Deltana Platform is.  Keep in mind, Superior was already in Trinidad working with BP prior to Nov 2007 when they headed to Aruba........

Perhaps that is what Mermis was doing?  Travelling to Venezuela under the guise of current work with BP offshore of Trinidad............while perhaps negotiating another platform?  This was to be a 6 year project, from 2002 - 2008/2009.



Five energy companies to develop Deltana Platform project

23-08-02

Five major energy companies will have a chance to develop four blocks of Venezuela's Deltana Platform natural-gas project while a fifth block remains up for grabs next year, Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said during a ceremony at the presidential palace. British Petroleum will enter in direct negotiations with the Oil Ministry to develop together with Venezuela's state-owned oil monopoly Petroleos de Venezuela the first block, Dorado.

ChevronTexaco and the British Gas Group have been labelled as preferred bidders for the development of block two, called Loran-1. Statoil and TotalFinaElf were invited to compete for block three and four, LauLau-1 and Cociuna-1.

A fifth block originally was expected to come into the hands of ExxonMobil. However, given the complicated nature of the block, a final decision on the fifth block has been deferred until the first quarter of next year, Ramirez said. Final deals between the government and the companies are expected to be signed by the end of the year.

The government has set several conditions, including: an obliged participation of 1 % to 35 % of state-owned oil monopoly PdVSA in each of the blocks, guaranteed financing and the development of national capital. The majority of the companies had said they want to operate the five blocks with only one or two operators to avoid higher operating costs.

The Deltana Platform, which is close to Venezuela's border with Trinidad, consists of 27,000 sq km with estimated proven gas reserves of 20 to 30 tcf. The first exploratory well has produced 62 mm cf of natural gas and condensates a day. The project is expected to top $ 3.8 bn over the next six years and create thousands of jobs.

Venezuela is actively promoting gas deals to reduce its dependence on crude and refined products. It also wants to compete with neighbouring Trinidad and Tobago on LNG exports, especially to the US East Coast. A $ 2.5 bn LNG complex that is to be constructed at the Paria Peninsula in the coming years should help achieving thatgoal.

Oil revenue is critical to Venezuela, accounting for one-third of its gross domestic product, one-half of government income and 80 % of export receipts.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnl23803.htm

[Anna]

What is especially troubling to me in all this is that these dealings and defrauding of stockholders did not happen long ago and far away but before, during and after the search for Natalee.

And stealing from stockholders is wrong no matter who does it.

[jen3560]

Jim Mermis

Thank you, Ken. Good morning everyone. I’d like to thank you all for joining us today on our third quarter conference call for the quarter ended September 30, 2007

seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007- earnings-call-transcript
 

 

As everyone is aware, our Trinidad project was running full steam ahead during the third quarter. Three of our vessels, the Gulmar Condor, Seamec III, and the Crossmar 14 are still currently working there for BP.

We also mobilized a work class ROV onto a third party vessel and provided services during the quarter to two other operators in Trinidad. Once the BP project is completed, we've got another project lined up in the region. Trinidad is a market that we expect to remain active, and we have recently opened an office there.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

 

The Seamec III also had full near utilization in Trinidad during the third quarter, and we see opportunities to keep her working in the region after we have completed the BP project. The Crossmar 14 is working in Trinidad as well, and we're in the process of securing additional work for this construction barge either in Trinidad or in the Gulf of Mexico after completion of the BP project.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2
 

 Thank you, Roger. Before we take questions, I'm going to spend a few minutes talking about what we're seeing for the rest of 2007 and what we see going into 2008. Our projects in Trinidad are going very well, and as I mentioned earlier, we currently have three vessels in Trinidad; two DP saturation vessels, the Gulmar Condor and the Seamec III; and an anchored construction barge, the Crossmar 14.

We expect the work on the current project to be completed around the end of this year or sometime during the first quarter of 2008. It is important to note that ever since our arrival in Trinidad back in June we have been in discussions with other operators in the region, and we feel pretty good about future business opportunities for diving and ROV surfaces in this part of the world.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=4

 

We’ve also got work in hand in Trinidad, half of the BP project, and as I said previously, we have already picked up other work in Trinidad for two other operators there with an ROV vessel. So we're feeling pretty good about the future coming up internationally

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=6

 

[nonesuche]

What is especially troubling to me in all this is that these dealings and defrauding of stockholders did not happen long ago and far away but before, during and after the search for Natalee.

And stealing from stockholders is wrong no matter who does it.

Yes that is an important point Anna.

I don't fault Schaefer for pursuing business either, but I do think the premise that they were searching solely for Natalee and allowed Aruba to abscond the trap are the key issues along with the fraud. Did Aruba have true jurisdiction over the trap? I don't think I've ever asked that question before and am sure I've missed something the rest of you know while I was working on the road, but did they have ultimate jurisdiction at that location offshore?

[jen3560]

What is especially troubling to me in all this is that these dealings and defrauding of stockholders did not happen long ago and far away but before, during and after the search for Natalee.

And stealing from stockholders is wrong no matter who does it.

Yes that is an important point Anna.

I don't fault Schaefer for pursuing business either, but I do think the premise that they were searching solely for Natalee and allowed Aruba to abscond the trap are the key issues along with the fraud. Did Aruba have true jurisdiction over the trap? I don't think I've ever asked that question before and am sure I've missed something the rest of you know while I was working on the road, but did they have ultimate jurisdiction at that location offshore?

None,

I did some brief research into this very issue last Spring.  Ownership of items found at sea......

It gets fuzzy with salvage laws, etc...........and the closest I could come to finding anything was an article about unclaimed human remains then being under the ownership of the recovery vessel.

The fuzzy part came about with regards to who had the right to 'claim' the remains.  Aruba?  Or Natalee's family.

I got completely lost, but maybe some Monkeys could find that answer for us.

[jen3560]

Wanted to add this, as the timing was interesting - considering when Schaefer contacted Dave Holloway.....

In May 2007, we entered into a letter of intent with a major energy company for a significant project in Trinidad. The project will utilize two of our DP vessels, the Gulmar Falcon and the Gulmar Condor , one of our work class remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, and a four-point barge that will be provided by a third party under a cooperation arrangement. The project, which is on a dayrate basis, is expected to begin in June 2007 and is scheduled to last for approximately four to five months. As a partial result of this international expansion, we estimate that approximately 75% of our revenues during the duration of the Trinidad project will be derived from non-hurricane-related projects.
http://sec.edgar-online.com/superior-offshore-international-inc/10-q-quarterly-report/2007/05/17/Section7.aspx

Jim Mermis

Thank you, Ken. Good morning everyone. I’d like to thank you all for joining us today on our third quarter conference call for the quarter ended September 30, 2007

seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007- earnings-call-transcript
 

 

As everyone is aware, our Trinidad project was running full steam ahead during the third quarter. Three of our vessels, the Gulmar Condor, Seamec III, and the Crossmar 14 are still currently working there for BP.

We also mobilized a work class ROV onto a third party vessel and provided services during the quarter to two other operators in Trinidad. Once the BP project is completed, we've got another project lined up in the region. Trinidad is a market that we expect to remain active, and we have recently opened an office there.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2

 

The Seamec III also had full near utilization in Trinidad during the third quarter, and we see opportunities to keep her working in the region after we have completed the BP project. The Crossmar 14 is working in Trinidad as well, and we're in the process of securing additional work for this construction barge either in Trinidad or in the Gulf of Mexico after completion of the BP project.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=2
 

 Thank you, Roger. Before we take questions, I'm going to spend a few minutes talking about what we're seeing for the rest of 2007 and what we see going into 2008. Our projects in Trinidad are going very well, and as I mentioned earlier, we currently have three vessels in Trinidad; two DP saturation vessels, the Gulmar Condor and the Seamec III; and an anchored construction barge, the Crossmar 14.

We expect the work on the current project to be completed around the end of this year or sometime during the first quarter of 2008. It is important to note that ever since our arrival in Trinidad back in June we have been in discussions with other operators in the region, and we feel pretty good about future business opportunities for diving and ROV surfaces in this part of the world.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=4

 

We’ve also got work in hand in Trinidad, half of the BP project, and as I said previously, we have already picked up other work in Trinidad for two other operators there with an ROV vessel. So we're feeling pretty good about the future coming up internationally

http://seekingalpha.com/article/54414-superior-offshore-international-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?page=6

 

[Kermit]

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

<snipped>

73.  Capslockwizard on December 24th, 2007 2:38 am

To Katablog, maybe you are so stupid that you do not se that I am trying to help. you are so absorb in your little peabean that you have no clue about the case.. First you need to be there to talk and see thing for your self… behinde that screen you can rumble and rumble and noting will get done… any Ideas overlook should be looked at… and this is what I am Doing now. I will go do someting about it…

What are you going to do someting..I flow down and I am here … researching what not even a private investigater did over looked.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

Caps reply #73 to Katablog sounds just like Hotshot.

 
Great Catch!!  Food for thought!!

The impliction is that CAPS in not from Aruba but ... spent time in Aruba ... interjecting him/herself into the case.

 
Janet

#  CapslockWizard on January 16th, 2008 8:40 pm
klassend: these people and Garry Young and some lady.
These folks are from an Idian tribe that come forth with damaging info on Beth Twitty.
Tey have mention a web site but it seems not to exist.
commmnet please via email, do you know these people.

I was not in Aruba when this case has happend but they seems to blame Beth…

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/01/16/beth-holloway-on-the-oprah-winfrey-show-discussing-missing-daughter-natalee-holloway/

[Kermit]

I would like to have Beth Twitty e-mail, I think I have figured out this puzzel of this case and where his doughter may have been burried in Aruba. Urgent
Posted by: Capslockwizard | Friday, December 28, 2007 at 10:16 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/beth_twitty_hop.html

[Kermit]

thank you texasmom for the tasty treat
((burp)))

off I hop

[Tamikosmom]

It seems those that have been banned at SM but are posting at Goldmonkey still want to believe I have posted members email addresses without their permission.

Evidentally they are referring to a quote of a Capslockwizard front page post where Capslock includes his email address in his post.  See post #71 below.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

Sorry but I can not be held responsible for what posters choose to post on their own.  I did not post his email address, Capslockwizard posted it himself.

What really salts my snails is when the one doing the most complaining and wrongly pointing fingers has sent out holiday greetings showing the email addresses of every monkey in their address book, being too lazy/stupid to use the blind copy feature to protect the addresses of others.

I agree.  I know that my email was included in email lists of some who have been directly connected to a SM supported Natalee Holloway cause.  However ... I requested that my email be dropped from the list and ... my requested was immediately complied with.

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!!  GOOD MORNING ZOOKEEPERS!!

Janet

[nonesuche]

What is especially troubling to me in all this is that these dealings and defrauding of stockholders did not happen long ago and far away but before, during and after the search for Natalee.

And stealing from stockholders is wrong no matter who does it.

Yes that is an important point Anna.

I don't fault Schaefer for pursuing business either, but I do think the premise that they were searching solely for Natalee and allowed Aruba to abscond the trap are the key issues along with the fraud. Did Aruba have true jurisdiction over the trap? I don't think I've ever asked that question before and am sure I've missed something the rest of you know while I was working on the road, but did they have ultimate jurisdiction at that location offshore?

None,

I did some brief research into this very issue last Spring.  Ownership of items found at sea......

It gets fuzzy with salvage laws, etc...........and the closest I could come to finding anything was an article about unclaimed human remains then being under the ownership of the recovery vessel.

The fuzzy part came about with regards to who had the right to 'claim' the remains.  Aruba?  Or Natalee's family.

I got completely lost, but maybe some Monkeys could find that answer for us.

Thanks Jen, I can't locate anything clear cut either. One would think with wrecks that have been discovered by private searchers and salvage firms, that there has to be something in writing regarding this. You might know having interacted with Kyle directly, but didn't Silvetti make the judgment call to allow Aruba to come on board to take the trap once it was recovered? I would expect that he had a sidebar with Shaefer that may have been private to even Kyle but then maybe he did not, we can't know. Ultimately Aruba chose not to share photos of all that was contained in that trap post recovery, why not if it was nothing?

No matter how you slice and dice this, it still comes back to that issue. It would be interesting to hear what some of the major shareholders of Strategic inclusive in that suit might have to say regarding this, for it appears some of them did have insider information from various employees.

[Tamikosmom]

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

<snipped>

73.  Capslockwizard on December 24th, 2007 2:38 am

To Katablog, maybe you are so stupid that you do not se that I am trying to help. you are so absorb in your little peabean that you have no clue about the case.. First you need to be there to talk and see thing for your self… behinde that screen you can rumble and rumble and noting will get done… any Ideas overlook should be looked at… and this is what I am Doing now. I will go do someting about it…

What are you going to do someting..I flow down and I am here … researching what not even a private investigater did over looked.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/22/now-aruban-prosecutor-says-holloway-case-in-new-phase-new-phase-of-not-investigating/

Caps reply #73 to Katablog sounds just like Hotshot.

 
Great Catch!!  Food for thought!!

The impliction is that CAPS in not from Aruba but ... spent time in Aruba ... interjecting him/herself into the case.

 
Janet

#  CapslockWizard on January 16th, 2008 8:40 pm
klassend: these people and Garry Young and some lady.
These folks are from an Idian tribe that come forth with damaging info on Beth Twitty.
Tey have mention a web site but it seems not to exist.
commmnet please via email, do you know these people.

I was not in Aruba when this case has happend but they seems to blame Beth…

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/01/16/beth-holloway-on-the-oprah-winfrey-show-discussing-missing-daughter-natalee-holloway/

Ribbit Kermit.

CAPS did not plan out his/her strategy of deception very well when the choice was made to interject.

1.  Grasp of the English language (Yes/No)
2.  Concrete theory (Yes/No)
3.  Aruban (Yes/No)
4.
5.

Janet
9:10 AM PT