Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 - 3/6/09

[Keepthefaith]

We've all seen the MONEY these OPPORTUNIST have,as well as the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION's they deal with.How F'ing hard would it have been to come up with the money needed to continue the search "IF NECESSARY"....All these targets with ONE F'ing diver on board from the USA.Are you kidding me.Really.What a joke this Persistence search was.JMOO..

Question.How many divers would you have taken,and or flown in once targets were located?

I doubt anyone on here will say "ONE"!!!

They physically dive on 1 target we're aware of,then proceed to stay another few months Doing what??They sure as hell weren't searching for Natalee now were they?

[Magnolia]

[quote

The thing that has always bothered me is why did they wait from December 30 till January 7 to dive
on the site again.
If I were an American citizen looking for another American citizen and had seen the cage/trap
with wat appeared to be a skull in it, there is no way I would have let it sit there for a week
without going down and checking it out.  I would have not waited on Aruban divers.
If Edwardo was on board, fine ...dive with him or without, but check it out.
It does not make sense to just let it sit there.

I agree!! The whole purpose of this "costly" ocean search was to recover Natalee. At this point they BELIVED they had found her. WHY spend another whole week of costly time waiting around doing nothing????????????

The suspense would have killed me!  I would wager that at least 50% of the men on
the Persistence knew how to dive with tanks, even if they were not certified SCUBA.

[/quote]

and if all else failed they could have flown in a US diver sooner than a week....
[/quote] Doesn't the FBI have divers? I know that the FBI was not supposedly on board but You would think that the Crew of the Persistence would have called them in....WTH was going on that They did not dive before the Arubans ever came back to retrieve the contents of the trap.....
[/quote]

Remember the FBI sent five divers to Aruba during the first few weeks and Aruba never
allowed those divers to put their foot in the water.
So the FBI does have divers.  Why didn't the Persistence call the FBI immediately if
they were on a legitamate search for Natalee?  It is too hinky!

[Lifesong]

We've all seen the MONEY these OPPORTUNIST have,as well as the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION's they deal with.How F'ing hard would it have been to come up with the money needed to continue the search "IF NECESSARY"....All these targets with ONE F'ing diver on board from the USA.Are you kidding me.Really.What a joke this Persistence search was.JMOO..

KTF - There was not a single ROV dive performed again after January 7th.  Per Silvetti and Kyle.  These are sourced by the embedded links.


Special Notice: By John Silvetti – “The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.  Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area.”

Months later [see 04/03/2008], John Silvetti comments further on the expansion of the search area:  “The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.”


Kyle follows up a week later,  posting as oceanexplorer at BFN:  “…Many sonar targets were identified and explored with the first round of ROV dives between Dec 29th to about the 7th of January.  What has not been completed is the ROV dives on sonar targets found after about the 2nd week of January through the end of the sonar search…”

[Lifesong]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

[Keepthefaith]

We've all seen the MONEY these OPPORTUNIST have,as well as the MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR CORPORATION's they deal with.How F'ing hard would it have been to come up with the money needed to continue the search "IF NECESSARY"....All these targets with ONE F'ing diver on board from the USA.Are you kidding me.Really.What a joke this Persistence search was.JMOO..

KTF - There was not a single ROV dive performed again after January 7th.  Per Silvetti and Kyle.  These are sourced by the embedded links.


Special Notice: By John Silvetti – “The original search area surveyed by the R/V Persistence was selected based on numerous pieces of information provided by Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, investigations, interrogations, depositions and other information from local authorities. After compiling and reviewing the information, the search area was selected by Louis Schaefer and John Silvetti. Upon completion of the sonar runs in this area, 65 ROV dives were performed by Offshore Innovative Solutions (OIS) on targets identified by sonar. Divers from the Aruban Police Diving Division and Underwater Expeditions made several dives and retrieved samples which were delivered for analysis. Several targets in this first survey grid yet remain to be investigated by ROV which will occur in approximately one week when ROV dive operations recommence.  Selection of the next area, the “Extended Search Area”, was based on one single piece of information, a reported confession by one of the three suspects. This confession, as relayed to the survey team, has some credence. It involves the same type of disposal scenario, but better defines the search area.”

Months later [see 04/03/2008], John Silvetti comments further on the expansion of the search area:  “The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.”


Kyle follows up a week later,  posting as oceanexplorer at BFN:  “…Many sonar targets were identified and explored with the first round of ROV dives between Dec 29th to about the 7th of January.  What has not been completed is the ROV dives on sonar targets found after about the 2nd week of January through the end of the sonar search…”

25% of 275 targets were dove on by the ROV!Nothing happened after the Jan 7th now did it?I would asolutely love to be wrong about the circumstances surrounding the search but,Lord have Mercy...Has Schaefer,Trahan,Kingman,and or Silvetti turned over ALL information in regards to the search?

[Magnolia]

Good morning, everyone!   

It's been a busier day than I expected, I'm sorry this is taking me so long.  I'll probably do better with small bites anyway, so here are the questions I have on the first few events...



1.    On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.

Who invited ALE?  What was the pre-established protocol should they find something?  Just because Kyle didn’t know it doesn’t mean they didn’t have one.  Was this protocol established with the family’s knowledge, participation and approval?  Finally, who runs the dive division and who do they report to?

2.    Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

3.   We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.”

4.   Aruban divers deemed that cage to be "not case related", and therefore Aruba had no interest in it. 

Here we have a giant gaping hole in whole story.  What is the truth about the dives?  How many were made?  What did the Aruban divers say they saw?  Is that backed up by the pictures?  How did “Mos, Richardson and the rest of the police brass” justify going from “suspicious” and “looks promising” to “no interest in it”?

(continued)


5.   After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.  It was a royal mess.

This implies that only the one dive was performed and the Aruban divers’ report was limited.   Again, the truth about dives is still out there.  Obviously, if there was only one dive and the reports of all three divers were “limited” or “inconclusive”, then who made the decision not to dive again?  Why?  Did anyone disagree?  Who?  etc.

6.   At that point, Kyle made the statement to all on board that "we do have an interest" and that they would recover the cage themselves.

Assuming this is true (I have no way of knowing) did anyone agree with Kyle?  Who?  Did anyone disagree?  Where was Tim Miller?  What did he say?
   
7.   That is when Mos purportedly said they would (Aruba and Persistence) dive on it - but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive, and that he would let Persistence know. 

8.   After the visual inspection on 30-Dec, the initial plan discussed by the project leads and Aruban police was for us (the team on board the Persistence) to be directly involved in the recovery of the trap. 

And by “directly involved”, you mean what exactly?

9.   There were talks about getting the proper equipment on board the Persistence such as a suction-recovery system to sift small items from the sand. 

By whom?  ALE or Persistence?  Makes a huge difference if it was a stall tactic by ALE or a genuine effort by Persistence, or both, or neither, or some combination thereof…there’s not enough information.

10.   Just after the 30th of Dec we were told it would take about 10-14 days to bring in a Dutch team capable of processing an underwater site..."

I have questions about this, but can’t really form them without the answers to #9.

11.   Kyle Kingman:  "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.”

This follows the biggest gap in the story.  There is no information here about how the evidence recovery happened to occur on January 7th, nor is there an acknowledgement that it hasn’t been explained.

We know the Persistence was notified by ALE, because they were onsite when the divers’ boat arrived.  We do not know how far in advance the Persistence learned from ALE they were ready to dive, though we’ve already learned (#7 & #8) that it was agreed in advance that they would dive together (Persistence & ALE).  Why is Kyle leaving so much of the story out?


12.   The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time.”

The big day arrives and there’s no diver on the Persistence and no explanation of why.  Why? 

13.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.

See #1.  Who manages the Dive Team, etc.

14.   From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.

15.   Kyle Kingman: “The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off”

So, obviously the divers knew the ROV was there.  On the 30th they had watched the videos from the same ROV before their first dive.  They therefore had to have been well aware that the ROV was taking pictures, filming.  It doesn’t make sense to me to think they didn’t know what the ROV was doing there or that it had filming capabilities.

16.   I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast.

17.   Kyle Kingman:  "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th”

I’m curious that Kyle adds the phrase “on the 7th” to the end of that sentence.  It’s probably nothing, but I question it nonetheless.


WHEW! 

Ok, this is the best I can do at the moment to explain why I'm not convinced its been proven exactly what happened and who to blame.  I'm drawn to the fact that PrivateEye did not blame Silvetti, he blamed ALE and referred to people "being chumped", but I'm likewise drawn to the strange triangle of Tim Miller-Dr. Hodges-Dave Holloway as it implies disconnect between Dave and John Silvetti, and still trying to reconcile the Miller-Silvetti continued connection.
As far as I'm concerned, no one's been ruled in or out with the exceptions of Dave Holloway and Tim Miller.

I think that Private Eye was too polite to call out Silvetti or the Persistence crew in his posts.
I think he made reference to the fact that the "game was fixed" in reference to their handing
over the contents of the cage to the Arubans.
In the "game was fixed" post he did accuse as much as he felt comfortable doing.
He did tell Kyle that they had been "chumpped"

[Lifesong]

I think that Private Eye was too polite to call out Silvetti or the Persistence crew in his posts.
I think he made reference to the fact that the "game was fixed" in reference to their handing
over the contents of the cage to the Arubans.
In the "game was fixed" post he did accuse as much as he felt comfortable doing.He did tell Kyle that they had been "chumpped"

Thanks, Magnolia - I've thought that too and wondered, as I'd originally interpreted him to mean fixed by ALE, it can actually read either way.

[Tamikosmom]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

WOW!!!

You are on a roll today Lifsong.

I just read this quote while working on my thing.

Janet

______



oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

 

[Lifesong]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

WOW!!!

You are on a roll today Lifsong.

I just read this quote while working on my thing.

Janet

______



oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

 

Exactly, Janet, thank you.  I don't think Kyle independently sent them to the FBI, I think the FBI had been called and was involved.  I'm curious if that call came from anyone other than Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway and if Silvetti was aware of it.  Either way, somebody had to tell Kyle HOW to get the pics to the FBI.

[AZSunny]

[quote

The thing that has always bothered me is why did they wait from December 30 till January 7 to dive
on the site again.
If I were an American citizen looking for another American citizen and had seen the cage/trap
with wat appeared to be a skull in it, there is no way I would have let it sit there for a week
without going down and checking it out.  I would have not waited on Aruban divers.
If Edwardo was on board, fine ...dive with him or without, but check it out.
It does not make sense to just let it sit there.

I agree!! The whole purpose of this "costly" ocean search was to recover Natalee. At this point they BELIVED they had found her. WHY spend another whole week of costly time waiting around doing nothing????????????
[/quote]

The suspense would have killed me!  I would wager that at least 50% of the men on
the Persistence knew how to dive with tanks, even if they were not certified SCUBA.

[/quote]

and if all else failed they could have flown in a US diver sooner than a week....
[/quote]

Wasn't Trahan a member of the Persistence team?  He dove.  (or am I not remembering correctly, again.)

[Anna]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

WOW!!!

You are on a roll today Lifsong.

I just read this quote while working on my thing.

Janet

______



oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

 

What does this mean?  Dave tried to get these pics from Kyle and Kyle refused to give them to Dave?  Why would he do that?  It is only photos and copies can be made without harm to originals, etc. not like actual forensic evidence.

I don't understand.


.

[Tamikosmom]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

WOW!!!

You are on a roll today Lifsong.

I just read this quote while working on my thing.

Janet

______



oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

 

Exactly, Janet, thank you.  I don't think Kyle independently sent them to the FBI, I think the FBI had been called and was involved.  I'm curious if that call came from anyone other than Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway and if Silvetti was aware of it.  Either way, somebody had to tell Kyle HOW to get the pics to the FBI.

Lifesong ... do you have any backup.  Thanks.

Nevertheless ... bottom line ... the FBI were not involved in the recovery process ... the crew of the Persistence was not involved in the recovery process.  Kyle Kingman made it very clear in his very own words.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Lifesong ... Kyle Kingman's own words reveal he very troubled in regards to the recovery process that only involved the Arubans and ... he was on a mission to reveal the truth when he sent the first set of ROV images to the FBI and ... when he contacted the administrator of the Natalee's Freebirds for assistance in documenting the happenings he observed on the Persistence.  His honorable intentions were to inform Beth Holloway and the FBI.

Janet

[Lifesong]

Lifesong ... do you have any backup.  Thanks.

Nevertheless ... bottom line ... the FBI were not involved in the recovery process ... the crew of the Persistence was not involved in the recovery process.  Kyle Kingman made it very clear in his very own words.

Janet

No backup on that, Janet.  It's unfortunate that Kyle didn't say how the FBI was involved on the 30th.  It's just my opinion that if Kyle had been the one to call the FBI himself he wouldn't have left that out (nor would he have withheld the other videos).  My feeling is that they were called around the time Tim called Dave and Beth on the 29th, but no backup on that either.

[Lifesong]

Lifesong ... do you have any backup.  Thanks.

Nevertheless ... bottom line ... the FBI were not involved in the recovery process ... the crew of the Persistence was not involved in the recovery process.  Kyle Kingman made it very clear in his very own words.

Janet

Lifesong said:

No backup on that, Janet.  It's unfortunate that Kyle didn't say how the FBI was involved on the 30th.  It's just my opinion that if Kyle had been the one to call the FBI himself he wouldn't have left that out (nor would he have withheld the other videos).  My feeling is that they were called around the time Tim called Dave and Beth on the 29th, but no backup on that either.

Sorry, I messed up the quotes...

[Tamikosmom]

Somehow the FBI was involved, they gave the pictures to Dave. 

WOW!!!

You are on a roll today Lifsong.

I just read this quote while working on my thing.

Janet

______



oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

There were three ROV dive videos of the trap.  Video 1 : 29th Dec - ROV visual inspection of the trap.  (very small clip of this video on Dateline).  Remember, the Dateline footage was taken over our shoulders by filming the ROV monitor.  The footage is not the recorded ROV footage.
Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap.  This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH.  I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me.  After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me.  I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't.  Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them. 

What you all really didn't know (nor Tim Miller when he said his statements to the press, neither Dateline NBC when they broadcasted their lovely special):

Video 3:  Jan 7th - ROV monitoring diver tactile inspection of the trap with sampling of items inside and outside of trap.  The trap was not recovered.  Recovered samples sent for forensic analysis.  Neither Tim Miller nor the media were on board.

The trap in Video 1-3 was found from the first conducted ROV dive.  I found the target at 1:46 am on Christmas morning.  It was my #1 ranked priority target and therefore the first of the ROV dive series. 

Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets.  None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047

 

What does this mean?  Dave tried to get these pics from Kyle and Kyle refused to give them to Dave?  Why would he do that?  It is only photos and copies can be made without harm to originals, etc. not like actual forensic evidence.

I don't understand.


.

I will give Kyle Kingman the benefit of the doubt that he believed he was in possession of evidence in regards to an ongoing investigation.

I know if I had been in Kyle Kingman position ... I would have sent those ROV images to the FBI and ... nobody else.  My thought process would be that I could possibly compromise the investigation.  Look what did happen when the FBI did eventually forward those images to Dave Holloway.  Those images ended up all over the internet.

Janet

[Magnolia]

[quote

The thing that has always bothered me is why did they wait from December 30 till January 7 to dive
on the site again.
If I were an American citizen looking for another American citizen and had seen the cage/trap
with wat appeared to be a skull in it, there is no way I would have let it sit there for a week
without going down and checking it out.  I would have not waited on Aruban divers.
If Edwardo was on board, fine ...dive with him or without, but check it out.
It does not make sense to just let it sit there.

I agree!! The whole purpose of this "costly" ocean search was to recover Natalee. At this point they BELIVED they had found her. WHY spend another whole week of costly time waiting around doing nothing????????????

The suspense would have killed me!  I would wager that at least 50% of the men on
the Persistence knew how to dive with tanks, even if they were not certified SCUBA.

[/quote]

and if all else failed they could have flown in a US diver sooner than a week....
[/quote]

Wasn't Trahan a member of the Persistence team?  He dove.  (or am I not remembering correctly, again.)
[/quote]

Trahan was the one who dove on the cage/trap on Dec 30th when Dateline was filming
and gave the thumbs down.
According to Kyle, Trahan was out of the country on Jan, 7th.
I think that is right.

[Lifesong]

Lifesong ... Kyle Kingman's own words reveal he very troubled in regards to the recovery process that only involved the Arubans and ... he was on a mission to reveal the truth when he sent the first set of ROV images to the FBI and ... when he contacted the administrator of the Natalee's Freebirds for assistance in documenting the happenings he observed on the Persistence.  His honorable intentions were to inform Beth Holloway and the FBI.

Janet

Janet, I don't have any have information to suggest that Kyle wasn't just doing what he was told when he sent the first set of images to the FBI.  Yes, I believe he was troubled by what happened, of course I do.  If I had been in possession of the videos of the evidence collection and been troubled about what happened - I wouldn't have withheld them for months from the FBI and the family.  I most certainly wouldn't have tried to profit from them.  That is what Kyle was doing.

[Magnolia]

I have wondered many times if it was Tim Miller who encouraged Kyle to
send the ROV pictures to the FBI, without John Silvetti's knowledge.

Tim would have known how to contact the FBI.  That may have been
when Tim became a liability.

[Keepthefaith]

Janet.I advise you to be careful!Remember what happened last night when you started to get Hinky!