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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 - 3/6/09  (Read 114423 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #220 on: March 02, 2009, 10:52:10 PM »

Newest member of the GM crew....Iris44....



 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Kermit
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« Reply #221 on: March 02, 2009, 10:53:32 PM »

Kyle said This is how the Dateline episode happened:
Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.





Did they "sample" the trap or is that when it was decided to call in Mos and gang?


On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.
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Kermit
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« Reply #222 on: March 02, 2009, 10:54:05 PM »

Newest member of the GM crew....Iris44....



 


 
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Magnolia
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« Reply #223 on: March 02, 2009, 10:55:15 PM »

Kermie,
I am not trying to be off base here...
But I have stated my opinions on the possibility that Jossy could be playing both sides of the fence...
He has substantial monetary interest(s) on that island, IMO, and probably seeks to protect them...
Is it off based, in your opinion, to be cautious of this man? Just curious of your opinion...
My best analogy for Jossy comes from an old saying, "Dogs do not shit where they eat."
BUCKSHOT

Not Kermit but I for one still wants to know why Jossy's son Eduador was on that ship the whole time (according to jossy to Hotshot) and Jossy was working with Caps on witnesses for the pond.  Jossy was in both areas of interest.  So which is it ocean or pond?

Joran: "She's in the ocean"

CAPS: "tennis shoe and remains" POND
         "she's in the cemtary"
         she's cut up and her body parts are spread around
         she is at the MOKO apts.
         she is at the whitehouse apts
         I never said MOKO kermit I said Montanja

TED KOPPEL: VAT A MINUTE! You got a million dollars after selling off your stocks and resigning from your company and switching assets to another company of yours and then you asked for donations and then you came home after mapping for oil in Aruba and after trying to "strike deals" to sell the ROV images of the cage/trap that you allowed ONLY ARUBA DIVERS to collect evidence and you denied the family and FBI any of that information? Is that correct Mister Peahead?



That would be Pea Bean to you, Mr. Koppel!
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The will of heaven be done in this and all things.
Keepthefaith
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« Reply #224 on: March 02, 2009, 10:55:30 PM »

Newest member of the GM crew....Iris44....

She will fit right in!!!

  I will tell you it has been extrodinary to be able to post without people distracting people.It will happen over there unless the Headmaster has the CULT marching in step.
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
Kermit
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« Reply #225 on: March 02, 2009, 10:56:35 PM »

07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.
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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #226 on: March 02, 2009, 10:58:33 PM »

07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.

You tryin to get me fired up so late at night Kermit!
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

MOHANDAS GANDHI
Anna
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« Reply #227 on: March 02, 2009, 10:59:31 PM »

07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.


What other things?  Didn't John Silvetti say there were only plastic bags in the trap?


 
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #228 on: March 02, 2009, 11:01:23 PM »

Posted by BUCKSHOT: on: February 21, 2009, 05:47:48 PM

J2K administer date-rape drug...
Sexual (and physical) assault of Natalee occurs...
Natalee expires at hands of J2K (and others?)...
JVDS (2K) panic and call PVDS...
PVDS contacts JanVDS...
JanVDS advises / obstructs / stalls / abets for PVDS...
Outside law enforcement agencies are kept out of Aruba...
The elite of the island (illegal money schemes/activities) band together...
Tourism Board (synonymous with ALE) protects enabling interests...
Disinformants / Diversions employed by Aruba...
Persistence and Aruban Govt strike a (brokered) deal...
"Map in our waters" in exchange for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" near trap...
Crew members / owners cash in...Kyle almost ruins it for them...
Aruba owns and possesses the final piece of evidence...
They will continue to Lie and Deny to the End...

Am I close??   

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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #229 on: March 02, 2009, 11:03:09 PM »

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #230 on: March 02, 2009, 11:06:27 PM »

Awe Mainta's front page for tomorrow says that Maruja Forero has died.  She was on the Staff at Diario.  No details yet, the edition is not out there to download yet.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/staff/

COLABORADOR
Maruja Forero
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #231 on: March 02, 2009, 11:07:02 PM »

Borrowed from Janet...

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.
Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Says it all for me...

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billb's daughter
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No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!


« Reply #232 on: March 02, 2009, 11:10:59 PM »

07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.
we??
I thought Kyle said aruba divers came in their own boat, dove from it, and returned to it w/o involving the crew of persistence and persistence divers during the collected of evidence by aruba divers on 7 Jan.....?
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #233 on: March 02, 2009, 11:13:12 PM »

Blue Moon

Janet made this observation, a while back, which is definitely a plausible scenario:

Eduardo is there from beginning to end!What is he watching over,and or protecting?

Until the Jossy/Silvetti/CAPS' connection ... I never doubted the Mansurs in regards to their  dedication to expose the corrupt investigation that was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.

Could it have been that the Mansurs jumped on the Aruban bandwagon to gain points with the "powers that be" in regard to the legal problems encompassing Luis Mansur.  Think about it.  The Aruban "powers that be" knew that Jossy Mansur and Eduardo Mansur were viewed in the media as supporters of the family of Natalee Holloway in their quest for justice.  In other words ... did Jossy Mansur allowed himself to be used by the "powers that be" to give the pond witness distraction credibility?
 
My response about Jossy/Eduardo...

Very possible... He lended the most credibility... Could have been the perfect mole...
Others toted around on national media to carry the agenda were too transparent...
Ruben "MySpace" Trappenburg, Arlene "The Aruban Legal Guru" Schippers, Tickle-Me-Tito...
Good 'ole Jossy has (family) businesses (money) to protect in Aruba...
Therefore, protection of his interests likely superceded shame to the island and justice for the family...
My opinion, again, dogs do not shit where they eat...An old, but true, adage...

BUCKSHOT
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billb's daughter
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No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!


« Reply #234 on: March 02, 2009, 11:15:21 PM »

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?
My thought would be that in their arrogant ignorance.....they never believed remains could ever be found or identified....As time went on...there became more and more comfortable and arrogant...moo
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billb's daughter
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No Body...No Tourism aruba! Bring Natalee Home!


« Reply #235 on: March 02, 2009, 11:17:16 PM »

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?
My thought would be that in their arrogant ignorance.....they never believed remains could Never be found or identified....As time went on...there became more and more comfortable and arrogant...moo
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #236 on: March 02, 2009, 11:19:44 PM »

KARIN JANSSEN KEPT FBI OUT OF INVESTIGATION

DAVE HOLLOWAY

DAVE: One of the things I really had a concern with was the FBI was contacted and the FBI wanted to come to the island. The FBI wanted to get involved due to the fact that we had an American citizen missing on their island. I recently found out that decision was made by the prosecutor and the police department to not allow the FBI to become involved as they should. In fact they sent a dive team up approximately a week later and they ended up going home. They didn't even step foot in the ocean.
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Blue Moon
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« Reply #237 on: March 02, 2009, 11:22:22 PM »

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?

Exactly, remember caps says he dove there and the trap is still there.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design itís much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #238 on: March 02, 2009, 11:25:08 PM »

One lingering question for me, though:
Why would they allow a body to knowingly sit in their waters for so long. Instead of waiting from summer2005 until late2007/early 2008, why would they not have dove and recovered sooner, and better concealed from scrutiny?
My thought would be that in their arrogant ignorance.....they never believed remains could Never be found or identified....As time went on...there became more and more comfortable and arrogant...moo

Possible.

I guess thats why they were so adament about:
(1) Radar would have seen any boat out in the water that evening (until it was conveniently determined to not be working)..
(2) Any object placed out in the water will just float back to shore.
To prevent a search of the ocean, a place they (perhaps) already wknew her remains could be located.
Also, kinda "hinky" how they were able to get so close to the cage on their first set of dive...
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #239 on: March 02, 2009, 11:36:09 PM »

Awe Mainta's front page for tomorrow says that Maruja Forero has died.  She was on the Staff at Diario.  No details yet, the edition is not out there to download yet.

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/staff/

COLABORADOR
Maruja Forero

3/3/2009 Awe Mainta Page 3

http://awemainta.com/home/



Papiamentu translation:

world cultural owing to lose one great exponente, maruja forero yesterday owing to enter the news tristo cu one lady of cultura, maruja forero owing to bay let we after of one enfermedad largo. is conoci cu for enough time maruja forero was bad y owing to happen one season largo in hospital y owing to dicidi of happen his ultimo dianan at his cas at dakota. maruja forero was one colombiano cu owing to adopta aruba because; his island y owing to know of engrandece we cultura in several territory. the had his notanan lieterario, the was envolvi in world of theatre y musica also. in the ultimo here have to remarca cu the had his are musical cu owing to deleita several of we at home of cultura, but also owing to know of take away esnan close at kia one some of his gladness musical, mustrando so his desire of comparti cu everybody, without see that they're one some of musica y gladness. assure maruja forero will let one bashi big close much of we at aruba, specialmente in the world cultural y his several amigonan. cu maruja sosega at paz y much forza at family y amigonan.

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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