Caylee Marie Anthony #112 3/02/09 - 3/04/09

[leslee]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope. There was a death certificate of an 18 (?) year old boy in a set of docs from the dump before last , Eric Roberts (?)so maybe that was him or maybe not.

[Puzzler]

Nancy Grace is/was such a nasty biatch tonight .. well nastier than usual imo   

Actually, I just got back to check in after I speed thru my recording of Nancy....man she was spitting mad tonight!  I've seen her unjustifiably rude & not on point but tonight she spanked Lenamon & was right on the money with most of what she said this evening.  You'll note that she clarified what I have repeatedly done as well regarding "accident" using a drug or toxic substance - if an aggravated assault upon a minor is committed and death occurs, its murder-PERIOD.  Do I agree to be fuming about the DP not being on the table right now, DP - life in solitary only difference is with one you're still breathing.   Now, if she gets a lesser sentence than life, then you would see this lil Italian lady causing the National Weather Service to issue a warning that a phenomenon known as Cappuccino will be hitting designated areas of Orlando to the likes of Florida has never seen.

I saw NG tonight...she really did bust that attorney's chops...glad to see her go after the defense like that.

IMO the reason the death penalty has been dropped by LE is because there is no one on the murder victim's side to make a plea to the jury for the death penalty (you know...usually there are many family members begging for justice for their deceased loved one).  In this case, Caylee's family members are rooting for her murderer.  Therefore, since there will be no family members to plead with the jury for the death penalty, LE has to drop it or else they would look stupid.  Best to just go for murder and life without parole sentencing. 

[Puzzler]

Those answers will be at trial because there will be pictures of the condition of the remains & it will be painful to view.   It was reported that it was stuck at the back of her head & they had to cut the tape from the hair - that also indicates to me that it wasnt just a few strands...ugh I know this is difficult discussion but we will be not only hearing it at trial but pictures will be presented.

Thank you Capp for your voice of reason.  Wouldn't having to cut duct tape from the hair at the back of the head indicate that there was still tissue?

Sorry for being sooo far behind and if this has already been brought up....but, Dr. Perper, on NG last night repeatedly said that the "duct tape was wrapped so tightly around the head".  I kept wondering "why" Dr. Perper was emphasizing this fact and kept saying that because of this that it was NOT an accident.

Well, maybe the answer is what you guys are questinging.  Maybe the tape was wrapped so tightly (out of anger, fury, rage) that even with the skin no longer there, the tape was so tight that it wouldn't slip down over the chin area of the jaw bone (I just hate the sound of this). 

Caylee was a little toddler...not an adult...her pictures show she didn't have very big lips and tape could have been drawn tightly...even against the teeth maybe...who knows).

Im wondering if Dr Perper was called in by the State to take an expert look & we just arent aware of that yet, this is not the first evening he stressed that fact quite distinctly.     He is/was the chief medical examiner in Broward County (Ft Lauderdale)

I've been curious about that, too.  Dr. Perper has seemed to be more and more forthcoming with "definite" opinions.  Hmmm....

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi for space>
What happens when Amy & other friends get on the witness stand and testify that Casey brought Caylee to the "No clothes party" & other nights they were partying away - maybe some are going to be testifying that they knew she drugged Caylee to get her to sleep.   An "accident" of any kind doesnt explain 3 months in advance searching on her computer for how to make chloroform, neck breaking, household weapons or that evidence of that search was present in her trunk evenutally learning that first suspicions were right, Caylee was dead in that trunk.  Upon that discovery what is found but duct tape wrapped around that innocent precious babygirl's skull!   Over a thousand pictures of Casey, everything & everyone she knew yet NO picture of Zanny with or without Caylee in the varying time periods Casey reported to have known "Zanny"?  What about Casey's message to Casey after the car was picked up at the tow yard "Call me, huge problem." Bring it Baez, Baden & Macaluso...they should have begged for a plea IMHO.[/color]

(Excellent thinking, puzzler, leslee, capp.  )

Just for clarity, according to Amy's statement, Cindy blew a gasket when she discovered the flag pics from the Memorial Day ABC party, b/c she (Cindy) had kept Caylee that night; Casey had lied to her mother as usual, saying she had an "event" to work.  IIRC Caylee was not at that particular party.  However, I do believe Casey brought Caylee along to the the Mardi Gras (I think?) party in late February... the one with the candy bead necklaces and the "Beer Wench" shirts, with photos taken in a garage...

[Puzzler]

What are the anthonys gonna do pretend that caylee never existed
because thats the message they are coming across with.. its all about casey ...

Really sad

You know...this could back fire on them big time...just think about the "bad press" they could get over this as the trial goes on.

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi for space>
So, yeah, this is really far-fetched, but talk about a premeditation theory:

Casey tells Caylee, "Let's play dress-up.  You can be Pearl from SpongeBob!" 

Pink shirt with darker pink letters
Big gray duct tape wrapped around the mouth/head
The little red heart
-What else?-

Anyway, that's as far as the idea goes... But you could use your imagination.  Chloroform?  Smothering?  And then there's the fact that the entire SpongeBob show takes place underwater... and the Anthonys do have that pool in the back yard...  Or maybe bubbles in the bathtub, like the bubble 'curtain' that covers the screen with each scene change?
<snip>

Desi, I think your theory is very plausible.  And remember as I once mentioned that duct tape is wide enough to easily cover both mouth and nose of a little child.  If that's what happened I hope the poor little girl was unconcious.  Knowing duct tape well, I doubt that she'd have the strength to pull it off herself...and as someone else mentioned, she may have been bound too.  Aarghh.  The sticker is indeed as close as it gets.

Imho, you should send this info to prosecution.  I think any theory within reason should be forwarded to LE/prosecutors.  Your theory is more than reasonable.

Well done .

Foggy

My gosh, Desi. I really think you are on to something here. I agree, forward this to the LE prosecutors.

Hmm... thank you Foggy and rmcalo.  I guess my thought was that if it occurred to me this week, LE may have already tossed around the concept back in December.  They are way smarter than me and have way more information to work with.  I don't know.  Maybe some Monkey who has an "in" with LE could send a link to my post?

[darla]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope. There was a death certificate of an 18 (?) year old boy in a set of docs from the dump before last , Eric Roberts (?)so maybe that was him or maybe not.

IIRC the Eric guy would have been 15 when Caylee was conceived and he was also a black guy.

[wreck]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope, we still dont know (and Casey prolly doesn't either)    

Thanks, Leroy and Leslee! (I do know how to spell "biological" -- I just don't proofread well!!)

[Puzzler]

One thing KC said waayyy back (I believe to LE) that keeps coming up in my mind:

I KNEW MY MOTHER WOULD NEVER FORGIVE ME

Maybe defense plans to portray Cindy as a parent who nearly drove her child insane with badgering and stating that she was going to take her granddaughter away and throwing KC out of the house on Father's Day night, etc.,etc., (as only KC could make it up - with a little thread of truth in it).  Such abuse that KC was both fearful and angry at Cindy that KC accidently hurt/forgot/whatever Caylee and that when KC realized Caylee had died that she knew "her mother would NEVER forgive her and she couldn't live with that.
So...KC was too scared to contact police (or she tried to contact mom/dad and no one cared enought to answer their phone) and KC "temporarily went insane" and came up with with her ZG stories.

Simple...abuse by mom, temporary insanity, accident (if the jurors deem it an accident then they can't convict KC of murder).

possible, That phrase always struck me too. I hope the prosecution responds with "she killed her poor innocent Caylee Marie out of spite, anger and jealousy of her own mother. She didn't want Caylee but she didn't want her mother to have her either. She knew what she was doing and she wanted her mother to suffer. This was no accident, no momentary lapse of judgement, this was contrived long before the act of killing her child was done".

ITA ...I think Casey's comments of "Maybe Im just a spiteful B" and Cindy saying "What did you do"   OR Casey telling her mother she had nothing to say to the 911 operator (with her child reportedly "missing") will be 3 of the very top statements that will go towards her guilt.   When Casey unloaded on her mother during her first jail call home, she said "You dont know what my involvement is" as if to say are you saying I did it?   Cindy says, "sweetheart (that kills me), I dont know what your involvement is"   She then proceeds to get pissed when her friend Christian gets upset saying "If something happened to Caylee I just dont know what I'll do - Casey's response "OMG!  calling you guys, a waste,huge waste."   SEE THIS LINK for entire call transcript:  http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4288277/CompleteTextOfCaseyAnthonysJailhousePhoneCall   
What happens when Amy & other friends get on the witness stand and testify that Casey brought Caylee to the "No clothes party" & other nights they were partying away - maybe some are going to be testifying that they knew she drugged Caylee to get her to sleep.   An "accident" of any kind doesnt explain 3 months in advance searching on her computer for how to make chloroform, neck breaking, household weapons or that evidence of that search was present in her trunk evenutally learning that first suspicions were right, Caylee was dead in that trunk.  Upon that discovery what is found but duct tape wrapped around that innocent precious babygirl's skull!   Over a thousand pictures of Casey, everything & everyone she knew yet NO picture of Zanny with or without Caylee in the varying time periods Casey reported to have known "Zanny"?  What about Casey's message to Casey after the car was picked up at the tow yard "Call me, huge problem." Bring it Baez, Baden & Macaluso...they should have begged for a plea IMHO.

I'm thinking that they can't convince Casey to take a plea (she would have to admit guilt in front of the judge for the record).  She'll NEVER admit guilt IMO.  I think she'll through Cindy under the bus, or at least try to.  If she's successful in doing that, it could mean the end for George mentally.  Both parents under the bus.  She has nothing to lose because she's already a total loser. She'll never live a normal life, even if she's not in prison.  Just think about her total lack of guilt she displayed when she stole double-digit thousands of dollars from the A's, hundreds from her friend Amy, and we don't know what else! 

Because she'll never admit guilt is the reason she's up to eight attorneys (posted previously here by another monkey).  You've heard of "throwing bodies at the problem"....will this is a good example of that saying in action.

[Desdemona]

Hopefully, Cindy, George and Lee will wear their memorial bracelets to the trial.

THEN CAYLEE WILL BE PRESENT......AND HOPEFULLY THE JUDGE AND JURY WILL HEAR HER.

Oh they are going to hear her.  Caylee will speak from the Anthony's home, from the backyard, from the trunk of the car, and from the place in the woods.  The maggots are going to tell their story, the jury will listen and the Angels are going to sing on High.

All the defense team, the LE detectives, Sheriff's officers, forensics specialists...ALL OF THEM will be on Caylee's side, too.

(bump)
   

[A_News_Junkie_Monkey]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope, we still dont know (and Casey prolly doesn't either)    

Thanks, Leroy and Leslee! (I do know how to spell "biological" -- I just don't proofread well!!)

Wreck - actually lets break it down....casey bragged about being bi so maybe bi - logical  was correct to begin with!
Tossing m&m's upside down to make Dolce laugh and N and N too!
Nights gang, sure hope tomorrow is the day!!!!!!!!

[Foggy Dew]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope, we still dont know (and Casey prolly doesn't either)    

You'd think that anyone who had "relations" w/her approx 9 mo. prior to Caylee's birth'd be asking themselves if they could be Caylee's father.  I think that would be wonderful if the father came forward and filed a wrongful death suit. 

If the 18 y/o (deceased?) is the father, I should think his family'd could have that determined through DNA--and should for Caylee needs not only LE but her family there at that trial--even if they didn't know here any more that we did.   

Foggy

[darla]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope, we still dont know (and Casey prolly doesn't either)    

You'd think that anyone who had "relations" w/her approx 9 mo. prior to Caylee's birth'd be asking themselves if they could be Caylee's father.  I think that would be wonderful if the father came forward and filed a wrongful death suit. 

If the 18 y/o (deceased?) is the father, I should think his family'd could have that determined through DNA--and should for Caylee needs not only LE but her family there at that trial--even if they didn't know here any more that we did.   

Foggy

Foggy , I think that he was proved not to be the father. Some of his family gave DNA.

[klaasend]

Hi Caylee Monkeys! I have been back with the Nat thread for a few months and have fallen far behind with the case here. Did LE ever expose the bilogical father of Caylee?

Nope, we still don't know who the daddy is.   

[Cappuccino]

Nancy Grace is/was such a nasty biatch tonight .. well nastier than usual imo   

Actually, I just got back to check in after I speed thru my recording of Nancy....man she was spitting mad tonight!  I've seen her unjustifiably rude & not on point but tonight she spanked Lenamon & was right on the money with most of what she said this evening.  You'll note that she clarified what I have repeatedly done as well regarding "accident" using a drug or toxic substance - if an aggravated assault upon a minor is committed and death occurs, its murder-PERIOD.  Do I agree to be fuming about the DP not being on the table right now, DP - life in solitary only difference is with one you're still breathing.   Now, if she gets a lesser sentence than life, then you would see this lil Italian lady causing the National Weather Service to issue a warning that a phenomenon known as Cappuccino will be hitting designated areas of Orlando to the likes of Florida has never seen.

I saw NG tonight...she really did bust that attorney's chops...glad to see her go after the defense like that.

IMO the reason the death penalty has been dropped by LE is because there is no one on the murder victim's side to make a plea to the jury for the death penalty (you know...usually there are many family members begging for justice for their deceased loved one).  In this case, Caylee's family members are rooting for her murderer.  Therefore, since there will be no family members to plead with the jury for the death penalty, LE has to drop it or else they would look stupid.  Best to just go for murder and life without parole sentencing. 

Puzz I absolutely agree with you on that point as well.  Plus jurors will less likely be nervous to convict murder one not having to consider phase two for the DP - its not as easy to do when you're voting for it, I've seen it often in cases over the years.  Plus there is a good chance this jury will be sequestered, 4 weeks expected, add a penalty phase to it and it could add another week or 2  between testimony, instruction & deliberation...many people would be fighting tooth and nail to find legitimate excuses not to be seated on a trial of that time expectancy so it risks getting a juror that is inclined to ignore evidence presented & instructions by the Court unjustly making a decision based on a personal matter.  Do I think the State could argue & prevail on the evidence yes, but like I said DP or life, the only difference for a solitary confinement inmate is breathing.   Since she would be labeled a babykiller she will most like be put in solitary confinement in State prison.

[Cappuccino]

<snipped by Desi for space>
What happens when Amy & other friends get on the witness stand and testify that Casey brought Caylee to the "No clothes party" & other nights they were partying away - maybe some are going to be testifying that they knew she drugged Caylee to get her to sleep.   An "accident" of any kind doesnt explain 3 months in advance searching on her computer for how to make chloroform, neck breaking, household weapons or that evidence of that search was present in her trunk evenutally learning that first suspicions were right, Caylee was dead in that trunk.  Upon that discovery what is found but duct tape wrapped around that innocent precious babygirl's skull!   Over a thousand pictures of Casey, everything & everyone she knew yet NO picture of Zanny with or without Caylee in the varying time periods Casey reported to have known "Zanny"?  What about Casey's message to Casey after the car was picked up at the tow yard "Call me, huge problem." Bring it Baez, Baden & Macaluso...they should have begged for a plea IMHO.[/color]

(Excellent thinking, puzzler, leslee, capp.  )

Just for clarity, according to Amy's statement, Cindy blew a gasket when she discovered the flag pics from the Memorial Day ABC party, b/c she (Cindy) had kept Caylee that night; Casey had lied to her mother as usual, saying she had an "event" to work.  IIRC Caylee was not at that particular party.  However, I do believe Casey brought Caylee along to the the Mardi Gras (I think?) party in late February... the one with the candy bead necklaces and the "Beer Wench" shirts, with photos taken in a garage...

Yes Des, Cindy was snooping around & found those pictures.  She printed them & had them in her car when she picked Casey up at Tony's with Amy in the car.  Amy reported Cindy saying "so you were at work huh"  I may have had my parties mixed up, but yes there is at least one that other's reported Casey brought Caylee too.   If memory serves it was also said that she partied at her brothers with Caylee there and something about another occasion where it was said that Caylee could sleep thru anything (which I found disturbing).   I have it all somewhere Im just getting a bit too tired right now to look for the reference points, Im shortly turning in

[Foggy Dew]

<snipped by Desi for space>
So, yeah, this is really far-fetched, but talk about a premeditation theory:

Casey tells Caylee, "Let's play dress-up.  You can be Pearl from SpongeBob!" 

Pink shirt with darker pink letters
Big gray duct tape wrapped around the mouth/head
The little red heart
-What else?-

Anyway, that's as far as the idea goes... But you could use your imagination.  Chloroform?  Smothering?  And then there's the fact that the entire SpongeBob show takes place underwater... and the Anthonys do have that pool in the back yard...  Or maybe bubbles in the bathtub, like the bubble 'curtain' that covers the screen with each scene change?
<snip>

Desi, I think your theory is very plausible.  And remember as I once mentioned that duct tape is wide enough to easily cover both mouth and nose of a little child.  If that's what happened I hope the poor little girl was unconcious.  Knowing duct tape well, I doubt that she'd have the strength to pull it off herself...and as someone else mentioned, she may have been bound too.  Aarghh.  The sticker is indeed as close as it gets.

Imho, you should send this info to prosecution.  I think any theory within reason should be forwarded to LE/prosecutors.  Your theory is more than reasonable.

Well done .

Foggy

My gosh, Desi. I really think you are on to something here. I agree, forward this to the LE prosecutors.

Hmm... thank you Foggy and rmcalo.  I guess my thought was that if it occurred to me this week, LE may have already tossed around the concept back in December.  They are way smarter than me and have way more information to work with.  I don't know.  Maybe some Monkey who has an "in" with LE could send a link to my post?

Desi, no one knows everything.  And like anything else, unless one has access to all the minute details of alleged perp and her family's life, some of the puzzle pieces might elude investigators.  But what if the pieces that you (and others) provide help solidify their case?  I can tell you that I'd be much more comfortable in my heart and soul to see so much evidence that I never have a moment wondering if maybe alleged perp had a fair trial. 

Btw, I would send it not only to LE, but to the prosecutors office (and repeatedly until they acknowledge reciept). 

You've done good, Kid!     

Foggy

[Cappuccino]

<snipped by Desi for space>
So, yeah, this is really far-fetched, but talk about a premeditation theory:

Casey tells Caylee, "Let's play dress-up.  You can be Pearl from SpongeBob!" 

Pink shirt with darker pink letters
Big gray duct tape wrapped around the mouth/head
The little red heart
-What else?-

Anyway, that's as far as the idea goes... But you could use your imagination.  Chloroform?  Smothering?  And then there's the fact that the entire SpongeBob show takes place underwater... and the Anthonys do have that pool in the back yard...  Or maybe bubbles in the bathtub, like the bubble 'curtain' that covers the screen with each scene change?
<snip>

Desi, I think your theory is very plausible.  And remember as I once mentioned that duct tape is wide enough to easily cover both mouth and nose of a little child.  If that's what happened I hope the poor little girl was unconcious.  Knowing duct tape well, I doubt that she'd have the strength to pull it off herself...and as someone else mentioned, she may have been bound too.  Aarghh.  The sticker is indeed as close as it gets.

Imho, you should send this info to prosecution.  I think any theory within reason should be forwarded to LE/prosecutors.  Your theory is more than reasonable.

Well done .

Foggy

My gosh, Desi. I really think you are on to something here. I agree, forward this to the LE prosecutors.

Hmm... thank you Foggy and rmcalo.  I guess my thought was that if it occurred to me this week, LE may have already tossed around the concept back in December.  They are way smarter than me and have way more information to work with.  I don't know.  Maybe some Monkey who has an "in" with LE could send a link to my post?

I have one of the lead detectives cell #, Ill leave a message to direct them to your original post tomorrow, not sure if I'll get a commentary on significance but I think it is worthy of them taking a look.   It really strikes a cord after George brought up Sponge Bob at the memorial & he his suicide "cry for help" was right after it was reported that the heart sticker was placed on the mouth portion of the duct tape proven by the perfect sticky residue imprint left on the duct tape when it got to Quantico for testing.   

[Desdemona]

<Snipped.  Desi's replies in BROWN>

Very Plausible and I hope you forward this to the prosecutors office for consideration.  Do you know how I would go about doing this?  I spent a few minutes Googling and found a website for the Ninth Judicial Circuit of the FL State Attorney's office, but didn't see how to send an email/link to the right person.  Also tried "Orange County Prosecutor's Office" but am very sleepy and for some reason didn't find anything I could use.  How do I contact them, do you know?

In addition - remember george broke down right after the pic of the heart sicker was released.  He mentioned over and over how him and Caylee shared SpongeBob.  I have always felt that he knew the significance of the heart sticker, and this certainly would explain that. Wow, I hadn't even considered that.  You could be right.

I actually think the solid shaded sticker is a better match as to me it seems as if the one they found was faded due to sun - and the part on the right retained the most true color (probably shaded by position it was laying).  What one is that?  The one I posted last week, or a different one?  Anyway, after looking at these stickers at different sites (they look lighter colored and more glittery in different photos; too sleepy to go find them right now), I'm convinced this is the one.  But you know, ICBW!! 

Desi

[klaasend]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-george-suicide-note-030309,0,4875886.story



Attorney for Casey Anthony's dad: Keep suicide note private
Family attorney wants judge to stop the release of George Anthony's suicide note
Amy L. Edwards and Sarah Lundy | Sentinel Staff Writers
6:30 PM EST, March 3, 2009

The Anthonys don't want the note George Anthony wrote the night he threatened suicide from becoming public, according to a motion filed in Orange circuit court late today.

The couple's attorney, Brad Conway, wants Orange Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland to stop the state from releasing the note as part of investigative documents that will become public in a few weeks. He requested a hearing for later this week, Conway said.

He said the note contains personal information that could be "embarrassing" to the family. He also said the contents of the note are irrelevant to the criminal case.

George Anthony's daughter, Casey Anthony, 22, is charged with first-degree murder. She's accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee Marie, and leaving her in thick woods near the Anthony family home.

Distraught over his granddaughter's death and the arrest of his daughter, George Anthony threatened to kill himself in January. Police took Anthony to a hospital Jan. 23 after finding him at a Daytona Beach motel with what appeared to be a suicide note.

Family members had reported him missing after he failed to come home and sent text messages to relatives suggesting that he wanted to end his life.