Caylee Marie Anthony #112 3/02/09 - 3/04/09

[3babiesmommy]

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

3Babiesmommy- I'm reading you loud and clear.  In the absence of normal emotional family bonding or attachment (which we generally reference as love), the prevailing force or drive becomes the bonding agent.  In other words, control/chaos/deception/physical abuse/emotional abuse become the shared, acceptable experience or environment that defines the family as a unit. That's one of the reasons, children of alcoholics have a higher risk of alcoholism.  It's also one of the reasons that children of abuse often become abusers themselves.  The patterns are ingrained into the children.  There are also generational curses involved, Biblically speaking.

Yes, and the Transgenerational Method of family therapy would have been a great model to use for this family, so they stop their cycle and pattterns before it would have been passed onto the next generation, which would have been our poor sweet Caylee.  I am harsh and often way too judgmental to be in my field, but this family took the easy, cowardly way out by ignoring their demons.  They cheated Caylee, from the beginning of her short life.  She was cheated out of her life and what she could have brought to this world.

Oh 3 babies, you would have a heck of a time with my family. You probably would have kicked us to the curb a long time ago if we were in therapy with you. 

That's too funny.  If you ever met my family you would understand why I chose my field.  I wanted to find out what the heck was wrong with all of us!

[no rose colored glasses]

Todd M the new lawyer is an expert in accident reconstruction, so I guess they will be going with accident, but how do you get around the other aspects, duct tape, throwing body out like trash?

[Miki Monkey]

Did you notice on NG Video Casey does give Drivers License ID. When writing a check on Amy's account and buying beer.

Who does it belong to ?

EDIT

[joesamas mama]

I am not a Anthony supporter in any way shape or form. That being said - there was no way they could have got her the help she needed!!  Not a chance!!  It is only for the very poor or the very rich!  If you disagree with me, feel free to tell me what you would have done!!  I am open to all suggestions!!

And IMO, there was no way in hell could they have gotten custody of Caley either!!

We have a very flawed system!!   

No disagreement but I do have to say there are various options to get mental health assistance without being wealthy, esp when she was still under the age of 18 or 21 but not graduated from college (not applicable she was too lazy to finish a course to graduate HS).  Had Cindy not been an enabler & really addressed Casey's issues with school, the school system would have made suggestions for her to get Casey to counseling that was affordable.  

If Cindy or family would have kept meticulous notes and documented KC's behavior, they could have presented to the court that Caylee was in danger and gotten custody. How much you wanna bet that Cindy's anal behavior dictated this if she really was going for custody. Though I'm sure those notes have long been burned. 

Here in Florida, at least my area, it is very hard to find affordable or even available mental health coverage. The only was this could have happened is if they had documented KC's behavior and reported it to DCF than they could have Caylee removed from KC custody providing the court saw enough evidence.  That being said, DCF could have forced her into counseling with one of their providers. The state would have paid for counseling and parenting classes.  However, for Cindy to get custody, permanent or temporary, DCF would have had to do a homestudy on her and George.  If they did not pass the homestudy, than Caylee could have been placed in foster care. 
I once had a family in counseling, the dad did not participate, but he was probaly one of the most disturbed individuals that I had ever seen.  His children suffered tremendously, I reported this family to DCF due to several concerns, but I had no luck getting the children into a safe and sane environment. 
Seeing how CinCin behaves, I doubt that she would have taken the risk of having DCF into her home.  It would have meant having to give up some control.

3babies, are we talking about getting KC the help she needed as a young adult before Caylee? Or after Caylee? Cindy knew KC was nuts pre Caylee. So she would have been on Cindy's insurance at that time. Insurance may have covered some counciling, but not much. If we are talking after Caylee was born, since KC was an adult she would have had to seek the counciling herself unless there was PROOF she was a harm to herself or to Caylee. So yes, you are correct that is very hard to prove.

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

Thanks for the clarification 3 babies, that is what I thought you were saying. IMO they had the ways and means to get KC help, they knew she needed help, but getting mental help for KC didn't fit into Cindy's Leave it to Beaver lifestyle. These people enjoy family drama. They thrive off of it. If there is no drama, they create it. JMO JSM

I totally agree with you, JSM.
By the way, Mrs. Peel  asked me to ask you how Josef was doing. 

Tell Ms. Peel, Josef is well and is sad he has to stay at the PetLodge all next week. I hope Ms. Peel will remember him and all pets in her prayers. 

[Cappuccino]

It sounds like the pictures are going to be released shortly, and the defense is saying Casey was tricked into attending the party. 

WHAT?!   Tricked in May BEFORE she killed Caylee?    Does that explain her comments back and forth to Amy about the duct tape for the costume    O yea Baez the Bozo you dont do your homework like us monkeys!    Give me strength!

Sorry Capp, I didn't read your post about the tape. Please don't think I was copying your post. TIA JSM

O sweetie you never have to apologize - we're all gonna miss a post or post the same thing here and there....

Im listening to NG as I post and Dr Perper just said NO ACCIDENT   there is no reason to have the duct tape tightly around the baby's mouth & head - he is extremely experienced as a medical examiner & what to conclude with findings

I'm watching too, Capp, and that's exactly what he said. They had been talking about the new defense atty who is an accident reconsruction expert atty. The went on to say that the jury would be instructed that if they thought Caylee's death was the result of an accident, they would have to acquit.

I will ask some attorneys I know, but Im not sure that is an instruction on murder one, a lesser charge but not accident means acquital not with her having to admit she disposed of the body

[joesamas mama]

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

3Babiesmommy- I'm reading you loud and clear.  In the absence of normal emotional family bonding or attachment (which we generally reference as love), the prevailing force or drive becomes the bonding agent.  In other words, control/chaos/deception/physical abuse/emotional abuse become the shared, acceptable experience or environment that defines the family as a unit. That's one of the reasons, children of alcoholics have a higher risk of alcoholism.  It's also one of the reasons that children of abuse often become abusers themselves.  The patterns are ingrained into the children.  There are also generational curses involved, Biblically speaking.

Yes, and the Transgenerational Method of family therapy would have been a great model to use for this family, so they stop their cycle and pattterns before it would have been passed onto the next generation, which would have been our poor sweet Caylee.  I am harsh and often way too judgmental to be in my field, but this family took the easy, cowardly way out by ignoring their demons.  They cheated Caylee, from the beginning of her short life.  She was cheated out of her life and what she could have brought to this world.

Oh 3 babies, you would have a heck of a time with my family. You probably would have kicked us to the curb a long time ago if we were in therapy with you. 

That's too funny.  If you ever met my family you would understand why I chose my field.  I wanted to find out what the heck was wrong with all of us!

Seriously, we have a psychologist on retainer. I'm not lying. Luckily I am not his busiest client. I think my family just built him a new house with a side office by his pool. 

[Cappuccino]

It sounds like the pictures are going to be released shortly, and the defense is saying Casey was tricked into attending the party. 

WHAT?!   Tricked in May BEFORE she killed Caylee?    Does that explain her comments back and forth to Amy about the duct tape for the costume    O yea Baez the Bozo you dont do your homework like us monkeys!    Give me strength!

Sorry Capp, I didn't read your post about the tape. Please don't think I was copying your post. TIA JSM

O sweetie you never have to apologize - we're all gonna miss a post or post the same thing here and there....

Im listening to NG as I post and Dr Perper just said NO ACCIDENT   there is no reason to have the duct tape tightly around the baby's mouth & head - he is extremely experienced as a medical examiner & what to conclude with findings

 

I know sweetie...huggs to you and everyone because these realities are painful to hear, as I said earlier its so difficult to understand that human beings, mothers especially, could do this to an innocent precious child

[3babiesmommy]

I am not a Anthony supporter in any way shape or form. That being said - there was no way they could have got her the help she needed!!  Not a chance!!  It is only for the very poor or the very rich!  If you disagree with me, feel free to tell me what you would have done!!  I am open to all suggestions!!

And IMO, there was no way in hell could they have gotten custody of Caley either!!

We have a very flawed system!!   

No disagreement but I do have to say there are various options to get mental health assistance without being wealthy, esp when she was still under the age of 18 or 21 but not graduated from college (not applicable she was too lazy to finish a course to graduate HS).  Had Cindy not been an enabler & really addressed Casey's issues with school, the school system would have made suggestions for her to get Casey to counseling that was affordable.  

If Cindy or family would have kept meticulous notes and documented KC's behavior, they could have presented to the court that Caylee was in danger and gotten custody. How much you wanna bet that Cindy's anal behavior dictated this if she really was going for custody. Though I'm sure those notes have long been burned. 

Here in Florida, at least my area, it is very hard to find affordable or even available mental health coverage. The only was this could have happened is if they had documented KC's behavior and reported it to DCF than they could have Caylee removed from KC custody providing the court saw enough evidence.  That being said, DCF could have forced her into counseling with one of their providers. The state would have paid for counseling and parenting classes.  However, for Cindy to get custody, permanent or temporary, DCF would have had to do a homestudy on her and George.  If they did not pass the homestudy, than Caylee could have been placed in foster care. 
I once had a family in counseling, the dad did not participate, but he was probaly one of the most disturbed individuals that I had ever seen.  His children suffered tremendously, I reported this family to DCF due to several concerns, but I had no luck getting the children into a safe and sane environment. 
Seeing how CinCin behaves, I doubt that she would have taken the risk of having DCF into her home.  It would have meant having to give up some control.

3babies, are we talking about getting KC the help she needed as a young adult before Caylee? Or after Caylee? Cindy knew KC was nuts pre Caylee. So she would have been on Cindy's insurance at that time. Insurance may have covered some counciling, but not much. If we are talking after Caylee was born, since KC was an adult she would have had to seek the counciling herself unless there was PROOF she was a harm to herself or to Caylee. So yes, you are correct that is very hard to prove.

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

Thanks for the clarification 3 babies, that is what I thought you were saying. IMO they had the ways and means to get KC help, they knew she needed help, but getting mental help for KC didn't fit into Cindy's Leave it to Beaver lifestyle. These people enjoy family drama. They thrive off of it. If there is no drama, they create it. JMO JSM

I totally agree with you, JSM.
By the way, Mrs. Peel  asked me to ask you how Josef was doing. 

Tell Ms. Peel, Josef is well and is sad he has to stay at the PetLodge all next week. I hope Ms. Peel will remember him and all pets in her prayers. 

I think I hear her saying them now.

[Cappuccino]

O sounds like Jessica D'Onofrio stopped drinking the koolaid      For those not watching NG shes commenting on Casey changing her Zanny story from Sawgrass to JPB & how Lee supported it in his depo

[joesamas mama]

Todd M the new lawyer is an expert in accident reconstruction, so I guess they will be going with accident, but how do you get around the other aspects, duct tape, throwing body out like trash?

Yeah Rose, workplace accident. Crazy. I left my baby by a construction site, they thought she was a piece of drywall and duct taped her together. WTF. Where the hell does Baez get these people? I HATE THEM ALL

[Searching]

Skank smiles

And what big teeth you have, said the Big Bad Wolf.

 

And that creepy smurk on Baez's face, what a joke.

I need a smart monkey to do the word bubbles on this for me..

KC: Hi, glad you are here making me look innocent mom and dad,I'm throwing you under the bus.
Butfuz: yeah,remember,smile nice at them,they will never see the bus coming.

[danabar]

One of the people on NG, I think Jean Casares, just said the Anthonys are like Bernie Madoff a bunch of scam artists. 

I agree!!

[3babiesmommy]

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

3Babiesmommy- I'm reading you loud and clear.  In the absence of normal emotional family bonding or attachment (which we generally reference as love), the prevailing force or drive becomes the bonding agent.  In other words, control/chaos/deception/physical abuse/emotional abuse become the shared, acceptable experience or environment that defines the family as a unit. That's one of the reasons, children of alcoholics have a higher risk of alcoholism.  It's also one of the reasons that children of abuse often become abusers themselves.  The patterns are ingrained into the children.  There are also generational curses involved, Biblically speaking.

Yes, and the Transgenerational Method of family therapy would have been a great model to use for this family, so they stop their cycle and pattterns before it would have been passed onto the next generation, which would have been our poor sweet Caylee.  I am harsh and often way too judgmental to be in my field, but this family took the easy, cowardly way out by ignoring their demons.  They cheated Caylee, from the beginning of her short life.  She was cheated out of her life and what she could have brought to this world.

Oh 3 babies, you would have a heck of a time with my family. You probably would have kicked us to the curb a long time ago if we were in therapy with you. 

That's too funny.  If you ever met my family you would understand why I chose my field.  I wanted to find out what the heck was wrong with all of us!

Seriously, we have a psychologist on retainer. I'm not lying. Luckily I am not his busiest client. I think my family just built him a new house with a side office by his pool. 

I don't think I have ever met a family that did not need some kind of help.  Asking for help and taking it, is one of the strongest and courageous qualities a person can have.
You seem like a really nice person.  You are one of my favorite monkeys!

[joesamas mama]

It sounds like the pictures are going to be released shortly, and the defense is saying Casey was tricked into attending the party. 

WHAT?!   Tricked in May BEFORE she killed Caylee?    Does that explain her comments back and forth to Amy about the duct tape for the costume    O yea Baez the Bozo you dont do your homework like us monkeys!    Give me strength!

Sorry Capp, I didn't read your post about the tape. Please don't think I was copying your post. TIA JSM

O sweetie you never have to apologize - we're all gonna miss a post or post the same thing here and there....

Im listening to NG as I post and Dr Perper just said NO ACCIDENT   there is no reason to have the duct tape tightly around the baby's mouth & head - he is extremely experienced as a medical examiner & what to conclude with findings

Thanks Capp I hate the Anthonys. There is no reason for duct tape on a human, fur, or any kind of baby. I have never seen Dr Perper, but I always think of Dr Pepper and I gave him up for Lent 

[BlueKYGirl]

Sorry if this is a repeat, but if it were considered an accident, wouldn't she be charged with reckless homicide and not murder?

[crazybabyborg]

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

3Babiesmommy- I'm reading you loud and clear.  In the absence of normal emotional family bonding or attachment (which we generally reference as love), the prevailing force or drive becomes the bonding agent.  In other words, control/chaos/deception/physical abuse/emotional abuse become the shared, acceptable experience or environment that defines the family as a unit. That's one of the reasons, children of alcoholics have a higher risk of alcoholism.  It's also one of the reasons that children of abuse often become abusers themselves.  The patterns are ingrained into the children.  There are also generational curses involved, Biblically speaking.

Yes, and the Transgenerational Method of family therapy would have been a great model to use for this family, so they stop their cycle and pattterns before it would have been passed onto the next generation, which would have been our poor sweet Caylee.  I am harsh and often way too judgmental to be in my field, but this family took the easy, cowardly way out by ignoring their demons.  They cheated Caylee, from the beginning of her short life.  She was cheated out of her life and what she could have brought to this world.

Oh 3 babies, you would have a heck of a time with my family. You probably would have kicked us to the curb a long time ago if we were in therapy with you. 

That's too funny.  If you ever met my family you would understand why I chose my field.  I wanted to find out what the heck was wrong with all of us!

That's actually very typical of many people drawn to the field of psychiatry in general. It's one that bears a 90% agreement with those providers I've worked with.

As far as Casey getting help when she was younger, Cindy would have been a major cog in that wheel. She would have seen that as letting go of some control. Besides, she's a competitor by nature, IMO, and to actually resolve the battle would have left her at a loss.

[3babiesmommy]

Todd M the new lawyer is an expert in accident reconstruction, so I guess they will be going with accident, but how do you get around the other aspects, duct tape, throwing body out like trash?

Yeah Rose, workplace accident. Crazy. I left my baby by a construction site, they thought she was a piece of drywall and duct taped her together. WTF. Where the hell does Baez get these people? I HATE THEM ALL

I am now sick to my stomach, really.  Accident?, this is sickening.

[ISpy]

3Babiemommy- You're not being harsh. It's just hard to help people who don't want to be helped and some of whom are too lazy/selfish to change.  I read a lot about familial patterns because we have a lot of weeds in the family tree that we don't want to pass on.

trimmonthelake- Shout out to you!  Sorry I missed your greeting this afternoon.  Thanks so much!  Hope you're having a good evening. 

Off to take care of a few things, then watch Casey In Court (and hopefully enough of Lee's depo to answer a few questions I have).  BBL

[BooMonkey]

For whatever it's worth, they were just saying on NG that since the only objection raised to the thousands of photos coming in from Photoshop was "relevance", that it's not a decision that could be reversed on appeal.

I don't see what the big deal is, we've seen a lot of the pics already and Photobucket does not allow nakkie pics.

[3babiesmommy]

JSM,
I was talking once she had Caylee.  Pre Caylee, is a whole different story, imo.  If Cin took KC to counseling as a child, than Cin would  have had to be accountable to what she was doing as a parent and take her own corrective action and alter her own behaviors.  Most counselors, including myself, would not see a child unless the parent(s) also participated.  Unless they were all willing to address issues and participate in therapy, than counseling is a moot point.   From what I see of this family, they will not admit that there are problems.  It is easier to ignore than take action.  There are many families, that thrive from chaos and the chaos, in a very sick way brings them closer.  So KC could have gotten help as a child, would it have helped?  That would depend on the level on commitment from the family.  I don't see these people as wanting to themselves.

3Babiesmommy- I'm reading you loud and clear.  In the absence of normal emotional family bonding or attachment (which we generally reference as love), the prevailing force or drive becomes the bonding agent.  In other words, control/chaos/deception/physical abuse/emotional abuse become the shared, acceptable experience or environment that defines the family as a unit. That's one of the reasons, children of alcoholics have a higher risk of alcoholism.  It's also one of the reasons that children of abuse often become abusers themselves.  The patterns are ingrained into the children.  There are also generational curses involved, Biblically speaking.

Yes, and the Transgenerational Method of family therapy would have been a great model to use for this family, so they stop their cycle and pattterns before it would have been passed onto the next generation, which would have been our poor sweet Caylee.  I am harsh and often way too judgmental to be in my field, but this family took the easy, cowardly way out by ignoring their demons.  They cheated Caylee, from the beginning of her short life.  She was cheated out of her life and what she could have brought to this world.

Oh 3 babies, you would have a heck of a time with my family. You probably would have kicked us to the curb a long time ago if we were in therapy with you. 

That's too funny.  If you ever met my family you would understand why I chose my field.  I wanted to find out what the heck was wrong with all of us!

That's actually very typical of many people drawn to the field of psychiatry in general. It's one that bears a 90% agreement with those providers I've worked with.

As far as Casey getting help when she was younger, Cindy would have been a major cog in that wheel. She would have seen that as letting go of some control. Besides, she's a competitor by nature, IMO, and to actually resolve the battle would have left her at a loss.

Very good point and insight on that one.  I don't think Sin Sin is the type to take advice from anyone.  I bet that has something to do with why Nejame left.