Natalee Case Discussion #805 3/6/09 - 3/9/09

[San]

Seriously...If they think they found targets and they have not found Natalee, then why have they not sent just some plain old fashioned scuba divers, to check the targets?

Buckeye ... immediately following the December 30, 2007 Dateline dive ... Tim Miller presence on the Persistence was no more and ... John Silvetti took full control of the search and instructed the search to be conducted in "deeper" waters.

Thanks to Kyle Kingman ... Tamikosmom no longer has to speculate.

Janet

++++++


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization
Key Personnel:

<snipped>
 
Tim Miller - Texas Equusearch http://www.texasequusearch.org/ - Project Management, gathering support, missing persons specialist

<snipped>

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

I still think that if you have the location, someone can dive it.  They would need a diver with or without anything else.  There are scuba divers that dive deep.

I agree Buckeye.  If there was something in another trap it would be easy for Aruba to have someone dive and get to it.

Like I said there is a plan in place and the main purpose was for mapping the ocean not finding Natalee.  Never was about finding Natalee.  They turned what they found over to the ALE so to me they were either stupid for trusting the ALE or corrupt. I would say they are corrupt.  Getting Tim Miller off that boat proves their intentions.  Get rid of the liability because he will never go along with our plan.

How many times have we posted on this site time after time to not trust the ALE or the prosecutor to do the right thing.

[Keepthefaith]

I must say.The Persistence,Family,friends,as well as supporters must not like when the big OL' OIL research is going on!Distractions,distractions....The research will not stop until TRUTH about the MAJOR players,Schaefer,Silvetti,Trahan and Kingman comes out.........

THA NERVE HAS BEEN STRUCK.I REPEAT..THE NERVE HAS BEEN STRUCK! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I'm sorry if this is a repeat.

********

PetroChina, Petrobras pursue Aruba refinery-sources
Reuters - Saturday, March 7(Adds Ecopetrol interest, paragraph 2; Valero comment, paragraph 5; background, paragraphs 10-18; byline)


By Erwin Seba

HOUSTON, March 6 - Top Asian oil and natural gas producer PetroChina <PTR.N> <0857.HK> <601857.SS> and Brazil's state-owned oil company Petrobras <PBR.N> <PETR4.SA> were seen as potential bidders for Valero Energy Corp's <VLO.N> refinery in Aruba, sources familiar with Valero's attempts to sell the refinery said on Friday.

Colombia's state-run oil company Ecopetrol <ECO.CN> <EC.N> was also interested in the 275,000 barrel per day refinery Valero put up for sale in November 2007, said another source familiar with the matter.

PetroChina's interest has been known for sometime on the island off Venezuela's coast and was even reported in a local newspaper, according to the sources.

Petrobras renewed its interest in the refinery late last year after pursuing a sale early in 2008 that ended after a January fire at the plant.

"More than one company has expressed an interest in the refinery," said Valero spokesman Bill Day, who declined to identify any of the interested companies.

Representatives from PetroChina and Ecopetrol were not immediately available. A spokeswoman for Petrobras said the company had no immediate comment.

Representatives from PetroChina have twice toured the refinery, the sources said, and a third visit had been scheduled.

PetroChina officials have also met government officials to discuss an exemption for the refinery from Aruba's 28-percent tax rate that expires at the end of 2010 and a tax dispute underway with Valero.

"Valero and the government can't come to agreement on the tax issue, so Valero wants to sell," one of the sources said.

Valero and Aruba are arbitrating a dispute over an additional tax the government placed on the refinery.

Valero has said it wants to sell the Aruba refinery because it cannot make finished gasoline for the U.S. market without further expensive upgrades. The company says it has already put $500 million into the plant.

Valero ships intermediate feedstock from Aruba to its U.S. Gulf Coast and East Coast refineries.

Valero's asking price, thought to be between $1 billion and $2 billion, for a refinery requiring additional billions in improvements, and the tax issues are thought to be the biggest stumbling blocks to a sale, the sources said.

Day declined to discuss a price tag for the refinery purchased for $495 million in 2004.

"We're considering our options," Day said. "We don't have to sell. If we don't get a good offer, we'll keep it."

Beginning in 2007, Petrobras pursued a purchase of the Aruba refinery.

A sale to Petrobras was due to be announced in January 2008, but was put on hold when one of the refinery's crude distillation vacuum units was heavily damaged in a late January fire. The entire refinery was shut for about two weeks and the crude unit returned to service at the end of May 2008.

Due to an internal dispute within Petrobras, the company dropped its plans to acquire the Aruba refinery and temporarily stalled in its effort to acquire complete ownership of a 100,000 bpd Pasadena, Texas, refinery.

With the internal disagreement resolved, Petrobras is renewing its interest in the Aruba refinery, the sources. (Additional reporting by Brian Ellsworth in Caracas; Editing by Christian Wiessner)

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090306/tbs-valero-aruba-sale-7318940.html?printer=1

[Keepthefaith]

If anybody posts i'll do a cartwheel.No.Really.OK.I'll do it first!

[hotping]

Lifesong and KTF....I'm heading out for the day but I wanted to post this first...
Notice... Torch Offshore INC and Overseas Shipholding Group INC


Check this out

http://www.implu.com/company/147163


Have a Nice Day Monkeys!

[Lifesong]

12/30/2007 – NEW
Kyle Kingman:  "Dave was involved with the search until the 30th of Dec from an information-only level. I don't know if he knows anything about the blue denim-like fabric and have no reason to suspect that he does. I would say he knows as much as Beth, perhaps slightly more. It's time Beth knows what the truth is about that trap"

NEW
Kyle Kingman:  “He [John Silvetti]  says Mos is inept and treated like a mushroom."


I thought these two quotes were interesting.  The first because I think its quite telling how Dave Holloway was treated.    The second because I think it has Dolph Richardson written all over it. 

JMO and only MO

[hotping]

Lifesong and KTF....I'm heading out for the day but I wanted to post this first...
Notice... Torch Offshore INC and Overseas Shipholding Group INC


Check this out

http://www.implu.com/company/147163


Have a Nice Day Monkeys!

   Click on the tab that says "Connections"

[Keepthefaith]

Lifesong and KTF....I'm heading out for the day but I wanted to post this first...
Notice... Torch Offshore INC and Overseas Shipholding Group INC


Check this out

http://www.implu.com/company/147163


Have a Nice Day Monkeys!

   Click on the tab that says "Connections"

Thanx Hotping..Cehcking it out!

[Blue Moon]

Keepthefaith, hotping, texasmom, Blue Moon, oldfart, Buckeye, SuzieQ, Anna, Magnolia, Lifesong


Good Morning Monkey's..

We've been having interesting guest stopping by as of late!

Good Morning all.  I have been keeping up-to-date.  Just got a new laptop and trying to get used to Vista.  Have errors in my event log and Microsoft says to ignore them.  Well, being a monkey you know I CANNOT ignore errors.  Driving me crazy.

[Tamikosmom]

The goal had to have been something other than locating Natalee or divers would be diving on the targets.  They either found her, already, or the whole mapping was for some other reason...or divers would be looking at those targets..IMO

EXACTLEY..Them not having enough money for the search was a line of B.S. in my opinion.Do you only take one diver down there,and only for one physical dive??I would really be curious to know when Trahan flew down there,as well as when he VANISHED?Was he flown down simply for the THUMBS DOWN??How much time did actual divers spend on the boat and diving on any targets??

CAPS and the Aruban divers were able to do what Tim Trahan could not.  If Tim T. was forced to surface for any reason prior to conclusively determining what was in the trap ... justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family demanded that he do another dive.

Natalee's parents were waiting on Tim Miller's call.  They deserved a CONCLUSIVE verdict from the only AMERICAN on the dive team.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

[texasmom]

The goal had to have been something other than locating Natalee or divers would be diving on the targets.  They either found her, already, or the whole mapping was for some other reason...or divers would be looking at those targets..IMO

EXACTLEY..Them not having enough money for the search was a line of B.S. in my opinion.Do you only take one diver down there,and only for one physical dive??I would really be curious to know when Trahan flew down there,as well as when he VANISHED?Was he flown down simply for the THUMBS DOWN??How much time did actual divers spend on the boat and diving on any targets??

CAPS and the Aruban divers were able to do what Tim Trahan could not.  If Tim T. was forced to surface for any reason prior to conclusively determining what was in the trap ... justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family demanded that he do another dive.

Natalee's parents were waiting on Tim Miller's call.  They deserved a CONCLUSIVE verdict from the only AMERICAN on the dive team.
Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

I agree Janet!   

[Keepthefaith]

Keepthefaith, hotping, texasmom, Blue Moon, oldfart, Buckeye, SuzieQ, Anna, Magnolia, Lifesong


Good Morning Monkey's..

We've been having interesting guest stopping by as of late!

Good Morning all.  I have been keeping up-to-date.  Just got a new laptop and trying to get used to Vista.  Have errors in my event log and Microsoft says to ignore them.  Well, being a monkey you know I CANNOT ignore errors.  Driving me crazy.

New toy BlueMoon.  always takes some getting used to..

[texasmom]

http://www.magic965.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=87

Thank Frog's It's Friday Was Great @ Señor frog's 6 Mar



http://www.emerson.edu/registrar/academic-calendar.cfm#CP_JUMP_68229

MARCH 6
 Classes end at 9:45 p.m.; First 7-week session ends
 
  7   Residence halls close at 12 noon
 
 8-15 Spring Break (no classes held)
 
15 Residence halls open at 12 Noon
 
16 Classes resume at 8:00 a.m.; Second 7-week session begins

[klaasend]

So either Val got out early OR is no longer going there?

[texasmom]

So either Val got out early OR is no longer going there?

My guess, he didn't have a class on the 6th; or it was an early class. 

[johan555]

it is a question to Kermit very simple

What I do not understand
Why a new search in Aruba ?
Kermit has given new evidence and all the new information to the family
(she told me here that Dave has all the information )
Can Kermit give  me an answer?
thank you!

kermit said on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:12 PM

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Kermit said this Дейв имеет информацию > that means Dave heeft de informatie.
And that means :    Dave has the information

The information about content of the cage.

So my only question is Kermit : are you sure that you gave Dave,Beth  & the FBI  that information & evidence about the human remains in the cage ?
You told me here :Dave has the information

[klaasend]

it is a question to Kermit very simple

What I do not understand
Why a new search in Aruba ?
Kermit has given new evidence and all the new information to the family
(she told me here that Dave has all the information )
Can Kermit give  me an answer?
thank you!

kermit said on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:12 PM

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Kermit said this Дейв имеет информацию > that means Dave heeft de informatie.
And that means :    Dave has the information

The information about content of the cage.

So my only question is Kermit : are you sure that you gave Dave,Beth  & the FBI  that information & evidence about the human remains in the cage ?
You told me here :Dave has the information

The issue is that KYLE believed there were human remains in the cage.   Don't you get that? 

[Anna]

it is a question to Kermit very simple

What I do not understand
Why a new search in Aruba ?
Kermit has given new evidence and all the new information to the family
(she told me here that Dave has all the information )
Can Kermit give  me an answer?
thank you!

kermit said on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:12 PM

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Kermit said this Дейв имеет информацию > that means Dave heeft de informatie.
And that means :    Dave has the information

The information about content of the cage.

So my only question is Kermit : are you sure that you gave Dave,Beth  & the FBI  that information & evidence about the human remains in the cage ?
You told me here :Dave has the information

Kermit does not say who gave the information to Dave, only that he has it.  Tim Miller also discussed DNA from the trap I believe it was on Dateline so one would assume Dave knew about this as well.  I would think he would also watch the programs about this.

[Keepthefaith]

it is a question to Kermit very simple

What I do not understand
Why a new search in Aruba ?
Kermit has given new evidence and all the new information to the family
(she told me here that Dave has all the information )
Can Kermit give  me an answer?
thank you!

kermit said on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:12 PM

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Kermit said this Дейв имеет информацию > that means Dave heeft de informatie.
And that means :    Dave has the information

The information about content of the cage.

So my only question is Kermit : are you sure that you gave Dave,Beth  & the FBI  that information & evidence about the human remains in the cage ?
You told me here :Dave has the information

The issue is that KYLE believed there were human remains in the cage.   Don't you get that? 

Johan doesn't get it,nor will he..This has nothing to do with Kermit..You can attempt to discredit Kermit all you want!It doesn't change ONE thing that happened in regards to the cage/trap and the search that the Persistence did.

LOGIC JOHAN..

[nonesuche]

it is a question to Kermit very simple

What I do not understand
Why a new search in Aruba ?
Kermit has given new evidence and all the new information to the family
(she told me here that Dave has all the information )
Can Kermit give  me an answer?
thank you!

kermit said on: December 05, 2008, 03:20:12 PM

I am aware that PI saw the photos.
I am aware that Beth & Dave have the photos.
I am aware that the fbi has the photos.

Kermit said this Дейв имеет информацию > that means Dave heeft de informatie.
And that means :    Dave has the information

The information about content of the cage.

So my only question is Kermit : are you sure that you gave Dave,Beth  & the FBI  that information & evidence about the human remains in the cage ?
You told me here :Dave has the information

The issue is that KYLE believed there were human remains in the cage.   Don't you get that? 

I think Johan is the chosen messenger for this question and it's just another head game to deflect and disrupt.