Haleigh Cummings #4 3/04/09 - 3/08/09

[minnie]

What are these people using for bathroom facilities.  Like where do they take a shower and wash up and go to the bathroom?

[Wyks]

Where was it reported that Ron robbed someone at gunpoint for drugs?  I would like to read that article myself.

From what I understand, it's a rumor, evidently from some who may or may not be family members.  Haven't seen it reported by LE or media yet.  That's why I used the word 'supposedly' while referring to it.  Cuz we don't know for sure that it happened.
 

[minnie]

Okay, thanks.  Are there family members that post on this forum?  If so, do you know who they are?

[peanut]

are you talking about occams razor?

WOO HOO...

HUGE HUGE (did I say huge?)   fan of  O.R. here....

ya, or as its been morphed into modern parlance... 'kiss'. keep it simple,  stupid.

[rana]

I'll give you the linl to CVZ, where he answers the comments...........very enlightening to me what the profilers think:

Here is just one, if you want the others are in the transcripts:

BROOKS: I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, there`s so many different scenarios we`re looking at. What are some of the possible scenarios that may have happened here?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Mike, I think the most important thing is the person had a familiarity with that house. This wasn`t somebody just came in off the street, a trucker going by, seeing a little girl out in the yard and grabbing her. This is somebody who obviously knew that the father was not going to be there, would be able to know what the set-up of the house is like, somebody who`d be willing to open the door, prop it open, somehow get in the house, turn a light on.

This is somebody who would have to be extremely familiar with the house, or it has to be somebody from within the house. So at least the advantage is the police will have a small group of suspects to work with, either somebody was has had -- in the house, somebody who -- a relative, somebody who has had contact, somebody who worked in the house, somebody who was a neighbor. It has to be something -- a very small circle of people that they`re looking at.

 Link for CVZ:

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2009/02/16/2441536-update-teenage-caretaker-of-missing-5-year-old-florida-girl-says-i-didnt-do-it


Hope all is well with you and he "little ones" BRB, off the baseball

IM, thanks for mentioning the transcript thread. I've been reading only here in this one and didn't think to look there until you mentioned it.

(bolding mine) I agree and that's why I can't seem to go with the stranger SO (or RSO) theory. In additon to the many redflags Ron's and Misty's words send up...... for me.

[IBE]

Hi Rob. How are Carpe and Frank, Ok I hope. I think of them often, along with Robots and Angie. And some other Monkeys that I don't see here any more.   

Me too! I am hoping that one day I be checking in and see them again. Am always glad to see familiar names and see all the newbies. Let's not forget Bendix

[Wyks]

... snipped with respect

RC in one of his interviews says 'she's not property'.  I find that out of place, but leads me to wonder, could there have been dispute about ownership of drugs or guns?  Could the hiding place for whatever been in the water heater area?  Perhaps someone was coming in the house for something other than Haleigh.

Hi Mudder, and welcome to the cage! 

You made very good points!  I just wanted to comment on the above part.

In one of Ron's interviews, it sounds to me like he says "it's not property", while referring to Haleigh.       Have heard it a couple of times on tv, and it sounds like that to me, each time. 

Definitely out of place and odd, IMO.  This sure could have been as you suggest, a dispute about ownership of drugs or guns, maybe both.  In that context, I can see Ron's statment making a bit more sense. 

The timing on Haleigh's having gone missing, just after Ron supposedly robbed someone at gunpoint (for drugs/money?), is just too coinkydink for me.  Seems Haleigh could have gone missing as revenge on someone's part.  They could have come into the home looking to get their stuff back, and on not finding that, took Haleigh instead. 

If it was drugs/money that someone was looking to get back, it could also be why Misty waited til Ron got home to call 911, cuz she may not have known where the stuff was hidden either.   It might have been a touchy subject to explain to LE what else an abductor might have originally been after and why, rather than the child.  (oh, well, you see officer, my bf robbed someone at gunpoint and pissed them off, so they came back to get their stuff and ....)  The public for sure didn't hear about that having been reported to LE. 

And yet, from the start we've heard Ron's threats and pleas.  It sure sounds to me like he knows exactly who took Haleigh and why. 

Am thinking that *IF* this is what happened, it probably doesn't matter if Misty was awake or asleep.  I doubt that she could have fought them off, no matter what they decided to do for revenge, they could have had a gun to her head, who knows. 

I just hope that IF this is what happened, or any part of it, that Misty and Ron have told LE exactly what happened, no matter what it was, or who was involved.  If druggies are who took Haleigh, then it sure would save LE a whole lot of time and energy in which direction to look for her.  IMO. 

(bolding/ red mine) I heard it the same way several times, Wyks. Also, there was another one that was a plea from Ron to return Haleigh that went, "It's not property.... like a bike...." etc.

In the words of  that famous Swiss psychiatrist, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, (may she rest in peace) - "There are no coincidences." There's another theory related to that, but the name escapes me at the moment cos I'm blanking out. (Insert the handy, blame-the-"no caffeine"-excuse here.) *snort*

Yeppers.  And interesting to me that his use of the word, "it's", tends to dehumanize Haleigh, making the rest of his sentence be in conflict.  From what I've heard, those who are guilty of doing in their loved one, sometimes use 'it' rather than her/him.  Drew Peterson did this and drew tons of attention for doing so. 

Not saying that Ron is a guilty party, it's just that what he has said is interesting and I figure that LE is paying attention.  Could be one reason he has hushed up now. 

[rana]

... snipped with respect

RC in one of his interviews says 'she's not property'.  I find that out of place, but leads me to wonder, could there have been dispute about ownership of drugs or guns?  Could the hiding place for whatever been in the water heater area?  Perhaps someone was coming in the house for something other than Haleigh.

Hi Mudder, and welcome to the cage! 

You made very good points!  I just wanted to comment on the above part.

In one of Ron's interviews, it sounds to me like he says "it's not property", while referring to Haleigh.       Have heard it a couple of times on tv, and it sounds like that to me, each time. 

Definitely out of place and odd, IMO.  This sure could have been as you suggest, a dispute about ownership of drugs or guns, maybe both.  In that context, I can see Ron's statment making a bit more sense. 

The timing on Haleigh's having gone missing, just after Ron supposedly robbed someone at gunpoint (for drugs/money?), is just too coinkydink for me.  Seems Haleigh could have gone missing as revenge on someone's part.  They could have come into the home looking to get their stuff back, and on not finding that, took Haleigh instead. 

If it was drugs/money that someone was looking to get back, it could also be why Misty waited til Ron got home to call 911, cuz she may not have known where the stuff was hidden either.   It might have been a touchy subject to explain to LE what else an abductor might have originally been after and why, rather than the child.  (oh, well, you see officer, my bf robbed someone at gunpoint and pissed them off, so they came back to get their stuff and ....)  The public for sure didn't hear about that having been reported to LE. 

And yet, from the start we've heard Ron's threats and pleas.  It sure sounds to me like he knows exactly who took Haleigh and why. 

Am thinking that *IF* this is what happened, it probably doesn't matter if Misty was awake or asleep.  I doubt that she could have fought them off, no matter what they decided to do for revenge, they could have had a gun to her head, who knows. 

I just hope that IF this is what happened, or any part of it, that Misty and Ron have told LE exactly what happened, no matter what it was, or who was involved.  If druggies are who took Haleigh, then it sure would save LE a whole lot of time and energy in which direction to look for her.  IMO. 

(bolding/ red mine) I heard it the same way several times, Wyks. Also, there was another one that was a plea from Ron to return Haleigh that went, "It's not property.... like a bike...." etc.

In the words of  that famous Swiss psychiatrist, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, (may she rest in peace) - "There are no coincidences." There's another theory related to that, but the name escapes me at the moment cos I'm blanking out. (Insert the handy, blame-the-"no caffeine"-excuse here.) *snort*

Yeppers.  And interesting to me that his use of the word, "it's", tends to dehumanize Haleigh, making the rest of his sentence be in conflict.  From what I've heard, those who are guilty of doing in their loved one, sometimes use 'it' rather than her/him.  Drew Peterson did this and drew tons of attention for doing so. 

Not saying that Ron is a guilty party, it's just that what he has said is interesting and I figure that LE is paying attention.  Could be one reason he has hushed up now. 

Yeppers indeed.

.......And you read my mind yet again.......

[Wyks]

What are these people using for bathroom facilities.  Like where do they take a shower and wash up and go to the bathroom?

Very good questions!      I have no idea. 

[Wyks]

Okay, thanks.  Are there family members that post on this forum?  If so, do you know who they are?

Well.. if there are family members posting on this forum, I'd rather they identify themselves than have anyone point them out. 

[Wyks]

Yeppers indeed.

.......And you read my mind yet again.......

oooooo skeery!     we gotta stop doing that!   

[alagary]

Ron could not hurt a flea  If he Tried he would get his punk-ass wannabe ass kicked Big-time

[Today]

I know this sounds a bit far fetched given the magnitude of possible cars, but were the train docking stations or cars that traveled through the area on that evening "sniffed" over? 
It is possible to track which trains and train cars went through that night based on global logistics that all the railroads have right now, CSX would be this railroad....I am curious if this has been done.

Posted this last night with no response, any ideas anyone?

to take a child and then go hop a train seems to complicated

Would need to run for a car then throw the child (which you slow you down) then run to hop on yourself.  I know trains slow down in populated spots, but even 10 mph is a fast run. And there would be no way of knowing that the car that was jumped was empty.  IMO not feasible.

[Wyks]

Ron could not hurt a flea    If he Tried he would get his punk-ass wannabe ass kicked Big-time 

   That's exactly what my son said! 

[alagary]

Ron could not hurt a flea  If he Tried he would get his punk-ass wannabe ass kicked Big-time

. Wait for it ,you'll see why I wrote this.

[rana]

COMMUNICATION UNDER STRESS:
INDICATORS OF VERACITY AND DECEPTION IN WRITTEN NARRATIVES

FWIW, the examples are not all on written narratives only as the title implies.
 
~ p 19 is about child oral narratives; p 22 - adult oral narratives, p 50 etc particlular examples - some spoken examples.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-04262002-164813/unrestricted/adams1.pdf

[Brandi]

What are these people using for bathroom facilities.  Like where do they take a shower and wash up and go to the bathroom?

Very good questions!      I have no idea. 

I believe in both "camps" the tents are used during the day for gathering places, etc.

Both "camps" have trailers people brought in for them to use to sleep, eat, wash up in.

I also have seen a few port-a-pottys in videos when LE was there. No idea if they are still there.

[Heart]

... snipped with respect

RC in one of his interviews says 'she's not property'.  I find that out of place, but leads me to wonder, could there have been dispute about ownership of drugs or guns?  Could the hiding place for whatever been in the water heater area?  Perhaps someone was coming in the house for something other than Haleigh.

Hi Mudder, and welcome to the cage! 

You made very good points!  I just wanted to comment on the above part.

In one of Ron's interviews, it sounds to me like he says "it's not property", while referring to Haleigh.       Have heard it a couple of times on tv, and it sounds like that to me, each time. 

Definitely out of place and odd, IMO.  This sure could have been as you suggest, a dispute about ownership of drugs or guns, maybe both.  In that context, I can see Ron's statment making a bit more sense. 

The timing on Haleigh's having gone missing, just after Ron supposedly robbed someone at gunpoint (for drugs/money?), is just too coinkydink for me.  Seems Haleigh could have gone missing as revenge on someone's part.  They could have come into the home looking to get their stuff back, and on not finding that, took Haleigh instead. 

If it was drugs/money that someone was looking to get back, it could also be why Misty waited til Ron got home to call 911, cuz she may not have known where the stuff was hidden either.   It might have been a touchy subject to explain to LE what else an abductor might have originally been after and why, rather than the child.  (oh, well, you see officer, my bf robbed someone at gunpoint and pissed them off, so they came back to get their stuff and ....)  The public for sure didn't hear about that having been reported to LE. 

And yet, from the start we've heard Ron's threats and pleas.  It sure sounds to me like he knows exactly who took Haleigh and why. 

Am thinking that *IF* this is what happened, it probably doesn't matter if Misty was awake or asleep.  I doubt that she could have fought them off, no matter what they decided to do for revenge, they could have had a gun to her head, who knows. 

I just hope that IF this is what happened, or any part of it, that Misty and Ron have told LE exactly what happened, no matter what it was, or who was involved.  If druggies are who took Haleigh, then it sure would save LE a whole lot of time and energy in which direction to look for her.  IMO. 

(bolding/ red mine) I heard it the same way several times, Wyks. Also, there was another one that was a plea from Ron to return Haleigh that went, "It's not property.... like a bike...." etc.

In the words of  that famous Swiss psychiatrist, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, (may she rest in peace) - "There are no coincidences." There's another theory related to that, but the name escapes me at the moment cos I'm blanking out. (Insert the handy, blame-the-"no caffeine"-excuse here.) *snort*

"Yes, I do have a message for whoever has taken Haleigh. I would ask that you please, please bring my daughter home. She's not yours, not your property. She's not something that you just take and say, 'It's mine.' This is my daughter, this is blood and I would like to have my daughter back please. Please bring my daughter home," he pleaded.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:X46CKk9Ww5cJ:www.wftv.com/news/18752473/detail.html+Ronald+cummings+shes+not+property&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

[rana]

For Wyks, IM, Luckyday  - and anyone else who thinks that dissecting words is a useful tool, here are a couple of links.

If psych research, dissecting words and calls etc are not credible subjects in some others' opinions, I'd appreciate it if you just skipped it - and not read it - rather than tell me again that it's "bull" or "trash talk." ThanxK?

"Applications of Psychological Research on Deception" (RE Police Statements)

Thre are also forensic psych and crime psych links etc. - same page.

LINK
http://deception.crimepsychblog.com/?p=106

(below) This is the same article by Susan H. Adams that I posted from the CI Centre, but here you don't have all the annoying scrolling with this format in this one from the FBI publication. (Easier to navigate than the other one)

It begins with Susan Smith and her words. This is a must read if you're of the "past tense" school of thought.... and some others. Again, not "proof" -- just a tool.... and a way to use norms.

LINK
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1996/oct964.txt

[Wyks]

"Yes, I do have a message for whoever has taken Haleigh. I would ask that you please, please bring my daughter home. She's not yours, not your property. She's not something that you just take and say, 'It's mine.' This is my daughter, this is blood and I would like to have my daughter back please. Please bring my daughter home," he pleaded.

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:X46CKk9Ww5cJ:www.wftv.com/news/18752473/detail.html+Ronald+cummings+shes+not+property&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

Thanks for that link, Heart.  This is one of Ron's pleas.  The one I heard was on tv, and sounded similiar to this one, yet different.