THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I think it is highly unlikely and completely inconsistent with numerous testimonies and other evidence that the pond (or anything but the ocean) contains Natalee's remains. The witness claims to have seen a muddy Joran coming out of the Monserat pond after disposing of her body. I think it is very possible that Joran may have disposed of some evidence in the pond, but as far as remains... unlikely.

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The pond witness talked to John about what he saw that night. Our search was based on that information.

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - QUALIFICATIONS


Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Innovative solutions in ocean exploration. Specializing in Marine GIS, side scan sonar interp and processing, magnetometer/gradiometer processing, hydrographic surveys, project management, reporting, and charting.

Saturday, March 21, 2009


 Kingman Geophysical Solutions is a consulting geophysical engineering sole proprietorship specializing in managing marine geophysical projects from conception to completion. KGS provides Geological, Geophysical, Marine GIS and Hydrographic survey consultancy services to multiple domestic and international offshore industries and governments.

KGS, owned and operated by Kyle Kingman, is recognized by the Society of Industry Leaders as a leader and pioneer in the new field of marine GIS and advanced marine magnetic detection and imaging.
KGS provides both innovative and industry proven solutions for geophysical, geological and hydrographic survey companies who seek efficient and cost effective turn-around from data acquisition to a finalized report and product.

Services Include:

Project Management
-On site project management from conception to completion.

Processing, Interpretation, and Reporting

-Side scan sonar processing, mosaicing, and analysis for all types of geophysical surveys.

-Shallow seismic processing and interpretation for geological and geotechnical assessment, sediment volume estimates, depth of burial, shallow gas, fault mapping, submarine geohazard evaluation.

-Advanced magnetometer and gradiometer data processing and analysis for locating submarine utilities, obstructions, debris detection, mine detection, UXO, or archaeological findings.

-Multibeam and single beam sonar charting, bathymetric contouring, slope stability analysis, route generation, slope maps, aspect maps, and other cartography.

Client Representing

-Provides client representative services ensuring geophysical survey data quality and suitability, GIS and chart data quality, enforce proper safety and environment (HSE) procedures, real-time route engineering on-site or onboard, and provides live feeds back to the office.
Marine GIS

-ArcInfo GIS –based solutions combining geological, geophysical and geographical information to solve complex problems often in real time.
-Cartography and charting of marine survey data

-Real-time tracking of vessels, ROVs, AUVs and sea-plows, in a GIS environment during installations, inspections, burials, removals, etc. enabling critical real-time command and engineering decisions based on all the relevant information

Kyle Kingman has successfully played an important role in the following project types:

Pre-lay and post-lay pipeline and cable route surveys (both fiber optic and HVDC), subsea damage assessments, site surveys, rig placement, submarine utility locating, PLEM, and other energy related surveys, LNG deep water and shallow water terminals, hazard and risk assessments, wreck location and investigations, offshore wind farms, deep water excavations, and more.

For more information contact: Kyle Kingman - oceanexploration@gmail.com

More:
http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Kyle Kingman: I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.
 
Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.
 
http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

Credit: Lifesong
 
 
KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS

Document
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

 
Network Deals:
 
Kyle Kingman 06/10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman states in an email to Jug Twitty and ldstlou that Tim Miller left the Persistence "on his own terms" on the day following the December 30th visual dive.  However ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words to the Natalee's Freebirds ... John Silvetti wanted Tim Miller off the Persistence ... he had become a liability.

Considering Tim Miller's suspicions regarding the claims of the Aruban divers that nothing Natalee Holloway case related was found in the trap ... could it be that the Costa Rica tip was a fabricated diversion and ... Tim Miller was under the false impression that he left the Persistence on "his own terms"?
 
Janet

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

Kyle Kingman:  Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  This occurred on Dec 30th when the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.

On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me. After the Jan 7th Dive I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn.

Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean". Meanwhile I'm standing on the beach watching the Dutch Coast Guard at the trap site for 42 and 45 minutes respectively over two days (11-12th). When I got back to the Hotel on the 11th and 12th after seeing the coasties out there I told John. He didn't want to hear it and didn't believe it. However, a couple weeks later he told me he looked into it by talking to Richardson who said "...not to worry, the Coast Guard doesn't have dive capabilities".

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

[Tamikosmom]

 
jen 3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #815 4/8/09 -
« Reply #745 on: Today at 03:43:54 PM »

This was the day after Kyle joined our forum and shared his initial information with us.  This will also show some of the discussion about keeping this info (at that time) under wraps in case there was really an honest investigation ongoing about what was found ...

Note - the information of Kyle having sent screen shots to the FBI is what we later learned to have been a lie, and also note - that was Kyle's ONLY attempt (that we were told about) of having "sent this information to the FBI".
_______

Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

If I were Mos I would have done the following:
 
- Once the Persistence finds the trap, convince them it's nothing significant.  This would calm media pressure and keep the Persistence searching while the investigation continues. No statements needed because this lets the team know it was case significant and of elevated interest.

- While the search continues offshore unabated, process the trap site by a Dutch forensic team and continue getting the investigation buttoned up

- While the forensic results are being processed, keep the search going as a smoke screen. With the Persistence puppet in play, everyone involved is relatively calm knowing that as long as we're searching, nothing significant is found.
 
- Buy as much time as they can using the confession tape to encourage the Persistence to remain searching.

- Dateline opens up a can of worms by showing the public (and the perps) the trap, but claims it was of no interest.
 
- Put out a statement claiming no evidenciary value in the samples.
 
- Continue investigation without media pressure or public outcry.
 
- Once the investigation is complete, get all the authorities in play ready to arrest the whole lot simultaneously.

- Arrest everyone involved then announce the full results.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

After studying the images, go back to the press release from Hans Mos regarding the trap and ask yourself these questions:

-Does this statement really say anything at all?

-Does the official FBI report say anything at all (verbatim to Mos's release)?

- If the fabric was clearly a blue denim-like fabric (a skirt perhaps) why was the sample compared to Natalee's blouse?
 
- Did the FBI receive this blue fabric or another fabric?
 
- If it was another fabric, was it a fabric sampled from the trap?
 
- Why would the FBI make a statement as they did on the heels of the Dateline special?

The answers to these questions moves this case into three possible directions:

1) The case is currently under investigation and moving towards justice for Natalee. A lot of people will go to prison, but it may take months to complete the investigation from the beginning, including the coverup and investigation. judges...etc.
 
2) The case is currently being professionally covered up and the key evidence is shelved, or destroyed.

3) We have not yet found Natalee and what we found is someone else - but no interest is being demonstrated at finding out who it is.

In my opinion the chances of either above scenario are equally split three ways.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

I don't have the names of the Aruban divers from the Jan 7th dive, but we should have a record of it. I know two of them, but forget their names. John will know the third diver's name if necessary. I don't recall who all was there on the 7th. The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.


Kyle Kingman - 03/19/08:

I don't know how this should be handled.
 
- I think the underwater pictures taken by the divers of the samples from the trap would be very useful.
 
- We tried repeatedly for weeks unsecessfully to get an inventory from the FBI. Right before the Dateline special aired we got word (after pressure from C. Rice's office) from the FBI that they were testing the samples, and that HALF the samples were send to the NFI. This contradicted Richardson who said he sent everything to the FBI.

- It would be useful knowing exactly what the FBI tested.
 
- I send the FBI screen shots of the Jan 7th dive and blue fabric with a note asking if they can verify what was sampled versus the fabric pictured. I did not get a response. This was several weeks ago.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4827.msg769334#msg769334

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman's own words posted on the Scared Monkeys' forum attests that the truth is not being related to the Stepfather of Natalee Holloway.  A command of the English language dictates that interpretation is not necessary.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

Kyle Kingman:  I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - SCARED MONKEYS

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #332 on: March 04, 2008, 12:21:17 AM »

If you quote me, please include the quote for accuracy.  I never said there were no human remains.  I woudn't comment to that effect.  I have neither confirmed nor denied the issue.  The only comment I said was quoting Tim Trahan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360330#msg360330


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #709 on: March 18, 2008, 03:11:50 PM »

As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI:
The contents of the trap were being actively investigated.  The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample.  Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case.  The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366289;topicseen#msg366289

[Tamikosmom]

In his email to Jug Twitty ... Kyle Kingman attempts to backtrack on his own words submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds in regards to John Silvetti's betrayal.

Hey ... Silvetti's objective and focus should have been justice for Natalee Holloway ... closure for her family and ... accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily upheld the Persistence undertaking to bring Natalee Holloway home ... home to American soil.

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ...

In December of 2008 Kyle wrote to Jug and I that John had remained "objective and focused" during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - NATALEE'S FREEBIRDS

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

Kyle Kingman:  ... I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word.

Kyle Kingman:  I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.  ... Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out.

[Tamikosmom]

Following is the actually quote that should have formed part of the above post.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

[Tamikosmom]

In Kyle Kingman's email to Kermit ... the underlying threat of legal action is implied and ... understood perfectly.  However ... the threat is denied by Kyle in his email to Jug Twitty.

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO KERMIT

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today[/b]

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
 
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

[Tamikosmom]

All of the following Kyle Kingmans quotes to Jug Twitty in a December, 2008 email are challenged in the above posts.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote
About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts.

Quote
I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.

Quote
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

Quote
I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Quote
John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

Quote
Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

[Tamikosmom]

It does not appear to me that Kyle Kingman in his own words is implying that he is in "awe" of John Silvetti in regards to the events encompassing the trap and its contents.  Lou ... I respectfully disagree.

Janet

++++++
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

So it appears to me as though in March of 2008 Kyle is posting regret that the family was informed it was Natalee before they actually knew what was in the cage and he was in  "awe" of how John Silvetti conducted himself during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191
 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Kyle Kingman: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I know Richardson for a fact knew about the samples. Mos, I don't know if he ever saw anything for certain. I have no way to confirm or deny his involvement.

Kyle Kingman:  On Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I'll try to get a list of all people that were ever on the boat and when they were there. This included the meeting on the morning of Dec 30th which is briefly shown on Dateline, where everyone is hovering around my shoulder including Mos and Richardson. This is when they're viewing the 1st ROV video from the 29th dive.

Kyle Kingman:  We later (Jan 7th) found the blue fabric under that sand berm where I theorized a skirt would be found based on the Dec 29th and 30th dives.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman acknowledged in his own words that his intentions were that the truth regarding the John Silvetti betrayal was to be exposed ... not remain hidden forever on the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't agree more. It was wrong to sit on the footage. I did everything I could to get them out and get them to Beth. Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images. I got around this through Tim Trahan. It took months. The only way I felt I could do anything was through here. I hoped through here that at least the images could get to Beth. Fortunately Tim said I could send them to her

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

[Tamikosmom]

quote author=Kermit link=topic=4918.msg787088#msg787088 date=1240855321]

Look what  the LEAK just sent me direct from their hidey hole.
 
 
Lisa posted
 
Kyle sent this response to "The Freebirds" statement posted on SM to Jug and I. I am so glad I did not post it at SM even though he said it was ok. After Kyle and I discussed it further, we felt it would do no good. I wanted to share it with you all though. His responses were underlined in the original e-mail. I am going to try and separate them in this text. Will color Kyle's responses in blue.

Hello Lisa, I'll address the following point by point. But first, I must say that I am absolutely grieved at how myself and others were drug back into that egotistical cesspool. What right do these people have in meddling incessantly with affairs that do not concern them? I am not responding to anyone despite their taunts in a public internet forum. I've said too much as it is.


The original text is italic with my responses bold and underlined:------
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.


I did not reach out to the Freebirds. The administrator (Jen) emailed me periodically to which I replied with basic updates, but nothing beyond what I already posted on the ship's blog. At some point, I was invited to participate in the discussions at Freebirds on their private forum and agreed because of xxxx support (xxxx). I figured if she trusted the group it must be alright. However, I posted nothing without the group first agreeing to complete confidentiality. They all agreed.

During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.

Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
This is true.

The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.

This is true, but no surprises


Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.

I received periodic emails from the Freebirds (Jen).


Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.

I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.



Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.

We later found that to be false.

This is completely incorrect. I had sent the FBI the dive screen shots the day each dive was made. Either John or Tim T. sent out the ROV videos at the first opportunity. This wasn't in my hands. I think the Freebirds contacted Birmingham FBI and drew a blank. I sent the screen shots to the senior agent in charge the day they were created, as instructed -Agent S. Bryant and D. Shipley (Barbados).

Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.

About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts. I never stated I would get in touch with Beth. One of the Freebirds told me they would put Beth in contact with me, not the other way around. I did not see the point in Beth contacting me, as I knew Beth could go right to the FBI for answers and they had everything.
We later found out that never happened.

Naturally I didn't contact her. There was no purpose and I didn't have her contact information- nor should I.


At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.

I didn't attempt to sell the images. I attempted to raise interest at ABC on Tim Trahan's request so that perhaps we could gain at least some funding to continue the search effort. It wasn't a highest bidder scenario, in fact there were no bidders. This happened the Wednesday before the Dateline special aired. ABC said too much of the story was already told and wasn't interested.

This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.

So which is it? She just contradicted herself. They did know the FBI had everything.

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.

I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't. I didn't want to get John pissed at me. He was already on edge with what I had posted in the past.

During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.

Untrue. I was in contact with Agent Shipley through it all. They didn't learn this... they assumed incorrectly.


We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.

Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.


I'm sure it was disturbing. It was highly flawed and made the search team look like conspirators!


When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
Beth didn't do anything of the sort. I read the email.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.

One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.

That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.

I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.



He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.

I said that Louis was looking into ways to tell the story. One of those ways he was considering was doing a documentary. I didn't know anything further.

We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.

Obstruction charges? Shouldn't this have been a wake-up call that they were meddling where they shouldn't have been?

At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.

I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.

John has no such intentions to my knowledge.

Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.


John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.


Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.

Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.


Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

I think that statement is absolutely incredible! Kermit and the rest of them not only betrayed my trust and the confidentiality agreement, she continued to post slanderous accusations and used some of my own words, thoughts, and opinions out of context to peddle her adjenda and make the search team look like a bunch of conspirators with John and I at the helm! John hasn't spoken to me since all this nonsense exploded. I've worked with him since Hurricane Katrina. He's been one of my best and trusted clients and friends. This may have destroyed our relationship and therefore affected my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter... who we named after Natalee. When will the madness end?





[/quote]

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I just want it out in a way that doesn't leave me as "the leak". I'm glad Beth has seen it and wants it out. The question is how to get "it out". I'm working on that. It is not considered evidence as it was deemed not case related by the authorities.

Kyle Kingman:  It is emotionally exhausting holding information inside while waiting and hoping that something comes of your efforts and the efforts of your team.

Kyle Kikngman: ... to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides.


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19-08
« Reply #679 on: November 20, 2008, 10:10:15 PM »

I haven't seen Kermit post anything untrue presented as factual.  He's expressed his opinion, been taken out of context and misunderstood a few times, but he's pretty spot on as far as facts are concerned.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4153.msg551217;topicseen#msg5
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4466.120

[Tamikosmom]

Quote from: Kermit on April 27, 2009, 05:02:01 PM

Look what  the LEAK just sent me direct from their hidey hole.

Lisa posted
 
Kyle sent this response to "The Freebirds" statement posted on SM to Jug and I. I am so glad I did not post it at SM even though he said it was ok. After Kyle and I discussed it further, we felt it would do no good. I wanted to share it with you all though. His responses were underlined in the original e-mail. I am going to try and separate them in this text. Will color Kyle's responses in blue.

Hello Lisa, I'll address the following point by point. But first, I must say that I am absolutely grieved at how myself and others were drug back into that egotistical cesspool. What right do these people have in meddling incessantly with affairs that do not concern them? I am not responding to anyone despite their taunts in a public internet forum. I've said too much as it is.


The original text is italic with my responses bold and underlined:------
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.


I did not reach out to the Freebirds. The administrator (Jen) emailed me periodically to which I replied with basic updates, but nothing beyond what I already posted on the ship's blog. At some point, I was invited to participate in the discussions at Freebirds on their private forum and agreed because of xxxx support (xxxx). I figured if she trusted the group it must be alright. However, I posted nothing without the group first agreeing to complete confidentiality. They all agreed.

During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.

Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
This is true.

The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.

This is true, but no surprises


Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.

I received periodic emails from the Freebirds (Jen).


Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help. He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents. Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family.

I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.



Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.

We later found that to be false.

This is completely incorrect. I had sent the FBI the dive screen shots the day each dive was made. Either John or Tim T. sent out the ROV videos at the first opportunity. This wasn't in my hands. I think the Freebirds contacted Birmingham FBI and drew a blank. I sent the screen shots to the senior agent in charge the day they were created, as instructed -Agent S. Bryant and D. Shipley (Barbados).

Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage. Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.

About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts. I never stated I would get in touch with Beth. One of the Freebirds told me they would put Beth in contact with me, not the other way around. I did not see the point in Beth contacting me, as I knew Beth could go right to the FBI for answers and they had everything.
We later found out that never happened.

Naturally I didn't contact her. There was no purpose and I didn't have her contact information- nor should I.


At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.

I didn't attempt to sell the images. I attempted to raise interest at ABC on Tim Trahan's request so that perhaps we could gain at least some funding to continue the search effort. It wasn't a highest bidder scenario, in fact there were no bidders. This happened the Wednesday before the Dateline special aired. ABC said too much of the story was already told and wasn't interested.

This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.

So which is it? She just contradicted herself. They did know the FBI had everything.

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.

I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't. I didn't want to get John pissed at me. He was already on edge with what I had posted in the past.

During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.

Untrue. I was in contact with Agent Shipley through it all. They didn't learn this... they assumed incorrectly.


We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.

Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.


I'm sure it was disturbing. It was highly flawed and made the search team look like conspirators!


When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.
Beth didn't do anything of the sort. I read the email.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.

One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.

That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.

I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.



He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.

I said that Louis was looking into ways to tell the story. One of those ways he was considering was doing a documentary. I didn't know anything further.

We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.

Obstruction charges? Shouldn't this have been a wake-up call that they were meddling where they shouldn't have been?

At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.

I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.

John has no such intentions to my knowledge.

Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.


John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.


Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.

Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.


Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.

I think that statement is absolutely incredible! Kermit and the rest of them not only betrayed my trust and the confidentiality agreement, she continued to post slanderous accusations and used some of my own words, thoughts, and opinions out of context to peddle her adjenda and make the search team look like a bunch of conspirators with John and I at the helm! John hasn't spoken to me since all this nonsense exploded. I've worked with him since Hurricane Katrina. He's been one of my best and trusted clients and friends. This may have destroyed our relationship and therefore affected my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter... who we named after Natalee. When will the madness end?

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman's first email to the Natalee's Freebirds ...

Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:59 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified"Kyle Kingman" <xxxxxxxxx>
To: freebirdsjustice@yahoo.com
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

Greetings, I came across your site and thought you'd might be interested in following along with the search.  I'm the geophysical engineer on board the Persistence and author of the ship's blog which chronicles the search effort.  http://nholloway.blogspot.com Regards,
--
Kyle Kingman

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 03/21/08:  I can see from the dive video other items were sampled that weren't in the ziplock bags. The piece of tarp wasn't in the ziplocks. It was put into a fishnet bag along with possible other items that I havn't heard about but can see being sampled. I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.