THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #498 on: February 26, 2008, 09:01:58 PM »

Wow...someone sent me these pictures (anonymously to my email link on the FP of SM) that were posted on another site.  Real clear pictures of the trap and what they thought they saw in it.  Thanks to whoever sent them!

ROV IMAGES:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2641.msg355959#msg355959

[Tamikosmom]

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: Dec 30th - ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap. This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH. I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted. I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI. Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me. After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me. I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't. Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047


++++++++

The Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio - Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - Guests Include Pat Brown, Robert Peters, Christopher Lyons, Art Wood and Scared Monkeys

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2008/02/26/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-listen-live-tuesday-february-26th-at-9pm-eastern-guests-include-pat-brown-robert-peters-christopher-lyons-art-wood-and-scared-monkeys/


++++++


Klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #735 2/24 -
« Reply #494 on: February 26, 2008, 08:55:26 PM »

Art Wood on now!

Bad news on the search.  Persistence has completed the underwater survey/grid.  Have identified 100+ objects and trying to narrow the list.  However, they are totally out of money.  If they can't come up with donations within a week or 10 days they will have to go home.

Dave Holloway has been talking to various officials to help chip in.

Without contributions Persistence is coming home.

Send contributions to the Natalee Holloway Foundation.  Everyone in the NH Foundation is a volunteer, nobody takes a salary.

Address:

Natalee Holloway Foundation
PO Box 4363
Meridian, MS   39304


+++++++

[Tamikosmom]

Considering I hold the position that justice for Natalee Holloway will never emerge from an Aruban court ... the John Silvetti/Tim Trahan betrayal ... participation in the furthering of the Aruban coverup is my primary and final focus.

Kyle Kingman's own words as well as the ROV footage provide a foundation that has the ability to provide a measure of closure for the family.  Maybe ... just maybe ... an 18 year old American citizen can be brought home to rest on American soil if appropriate steps are taken.

Distancing Kyle Kingman's own words regarding events encompassing the trap/cage implies the Aruban coverup agenda is being furthered.

Janet

+++++++

The implication of Peter Devries' words regarding the Range Rover confession ...

1.  Distances Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to the events encompassing the trap/cage and ... distances the Aruban recovery of the trap/cage contents.

THE COMPLETE STORY
How a sensational hidden camera operation
solved the Natalee Holloway case

Joran phones a person named ‘Daury’ who is half Dutch and half Aruban. A couple of other times Joran talks about the fact that he was helped by several other people that night.  Daury has a boat docked in front of the hotel in which he takes cruise tourists on ‘tubes’ and ‘bananas’.  Daury came instantly to Joran and together they quickly declared that Natalee was in fact dead.

Together they carried the girl from the beach into Daury’s boat. Daury tells Joran to walk home. He, the friend, takes off onto the ocean where he throws Natalee’s body out of the boat into the sea ...

http://www.peterrdevries.com/complete-story.htm


2.  Negates the ROV screen shot and ... Kyle Kingman's own words that imply that a shoe inside the trap/cage could be case related.

THE COMPLETE STORY
How a sensational hidden camera operation
solved the Natalee Holloway case

... After that he visits Joran at his home, he has an apartment in the garden of his parent’s house, to talk about what happened. Joran tells Daury he walked back home and  hid his shoes in a storm drain.

http://www.peterrdevries.com/complete-story.htm

[Tamikosmom]

Without open discussions...we go nowhere......

There was a time when Hans Mos, John Silvetti, Kyle Kingman and the four-headed CapLockWizard were held above reproach by many in regards to furthering the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Thankfully open discussion was afforded to those with opposing positions and ... the truth was allowed to emerge.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #433 on: November 24, 2008, 12:23:56 PM »

... I don't think revealing this information is going to bring Natalee home. It saddens me greatly. That is what we all worked for. But the cover-up and corruption is so obvious, how can we get truth. ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg555651;topicseen#msg555651

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #533 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

THIS IS BETHS ANSWER TO MY ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO EXPOSE THE ARUBA COVER-UP
Flag this message

Re: Permission to EXPOSE ARUBA COVER-UP
Monday, September 8, 2008 6:10 PM
From: "Beth
Add sender to Contacts
To: kermit

Sure!
 
All the best to everyone~

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #601 on: November 25, 2008, 09:34:11 PM »

Believe me. I agonized over what I sent to show Beth. It was very hard for even me to look at the photo overlay of how Natalee was inside that cage and I told Beth, send it to Jug, let him tell you. I was and have tried to protect the family at every turn in the case. TRUST THAT. I have.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557845#msg557845

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #794 1/18/09 -
« Reply #238 on: January 19, 2009, 07:54:32 PM »

Jen ... when was Beth Holloway, FBI and John Kelly informed by the Natalee's Freebirds.

Thanks

Janet

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4388.msg634246#msg634246


jen 3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #794 1/18/09 -
« Reply #240 on: January 19, 2009, 07:59:41 PM »

Beth was made aware on 3 different occasions.

Once in March from PI (preliminary only, pictures with little background or supplemental from Kyle)

Once in ?????? from Kermit (pics and some of Kyle's posts)

Once in September (with our final document) by me

JQK - September by Wingnut

FBI - September by me

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4388.msg634256#msg634256

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly. At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.

The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008


Quote from: klaasend on November 23, 2008, 10:06:09 PM

... Whatever it is you are NOT talking about, are Beth and Dave aware of it?

As simple yes or no will suffice.


Quote from: Kermit on November 23, 2008, 10:08:38 PM

Beth is.
I can personally attest to it.


Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2008, 10:08:57 PM »

That is good enough for me then.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg554818#msg554818

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:

I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
 
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,

Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008


oceanexplortion
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #777 11/21/08 thru
« Reply #820 on: November 23, 2008, 06:46:34 PM »

Kermit,

First, I have NEVER threatened you.  The only thing I said to you is that I do not want to be sued by releasing information into the public that I was specifically told by OUR FBI as confidential. When I'm told not to comment by our FBI, I listen. You clearly do not understand this.

I made a mistake trusting you with so much as a greeting.  It was a gross misjudgement in character on my part. 

We all want the truth out in it's entirety.  The truth will be told by Beth in her terms when SHE feels ready.  It's not up to you or I. If you want the truth, ask BETH, not me.  Your answers will come from her.   

As for me, I stand by Natalee.   I'm sorry Kermit, my answer is NO.  This is my last post at SM.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.msg554523#msg554523

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman accuses the Natalee's Freebirds of breaking a confidentiality agreement when his words ... with Beth Holloway's permission ... were revealed on the SM forum.

I do believe that it was Kyle who backtracked on the initial plan which set into motion what eventually happened.  The Natalee's Freebirds never had any intentions of sitting on proof that John Silvetti was a participant in the furthering of the Aruban coverup ... the Aruban coverup which began on the morning Natalee Holloway went missing.  Exposing the corrupt investigation was the foundation of the private forum.

I am thankful that Kermit brought Kyle Kingman's own words over to the SM forum and ... I cannot move forward until all aspects of the happenings that took place on the Persistence in regards to the cage/trap and the recovery of its contents are investigated by the FBI or ... publicly exposed.  Kyle Kingman's own words ... along with the ROV footage is a start.

Considering Natalee Holloway's remains may have been in that trap ... Kyle Kingman's words cannot be disregarded ... cannot be forgotten.  A measure of closure for the family is where it is at.  If possible ... Natalee Holloway need to come home and rest on American soil.

Janet

++++++


THE INTITIAL PLAN

Kyle Kingman - According to His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - March 20/08:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - March 20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides.

The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

jen3560 - scaredmonkeys.net

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

Following trusted consultation ...Beth Holloway afforded the Natalee's Freebirds the go ahead to release Kyle Kingman's own words.  In my opinion ... the permission to explose ... which was not arrived at lightly ... implies that Beth is a believer in the John Silvetti betrayal of both justice for her daughter and ... closure for the family.

I will continue to openly uphold Beth's belief in the betrayal that took place on board the Persistence until otherwise indicated.

Janet

++++++

THE BETRAYAL ON BOARD THE PERSISTENCE

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver (Jan 7) sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman:   I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They (samples) were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us othe 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  John (Silvetti) is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

[Tamikosmom]

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER - DECEMBER, 2008


THE DOLF RICHARDSON - PERSISTENCE CONNECTION

It does not make sense that collaborating with the Aruban/Dutch enemy who ... from the getgo ... was a participant working behind the scenes in the Aruban cover-up ... the Aruban cover-up that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.  It is not rocket science   A positive outcome from the Persistence undertaking in regards to justice and closure never stood a chance.  In my opinion ... those who sacrificially donated to the endeavor were deceived in regards to the purpose of the mission.  The furthering of the Aruban coverup agenda was never the understanding.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.

-he was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site
-he was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water
-he was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing (although it got to the FBI two weeks after he said he sent it).

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee. When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.  I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI).

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that the editing of Kyle Kingman and Rob Floyd's professional qualifications be John Silvetti's attempt at claiming there was not one crew member on board the Persistence that was qualified to interpret the solar scans and the ROV images.  Documentation claims otherwise.

Janet
______ 

QUALIFICATIONS/EXPERTISE - THEN AND NOW?

THEN - NOVEMBER 2007

The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist - Responsible for analog sonar data interpretation and analysis and quality control.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
 
http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


NOW - FEBRUARY  2009

The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist

Dr. Rob Floyd - Marine Geologist /Archaeologist

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that in January, 2008 ... following the Nicaragua hoax ... there was a meeting of the minds between Louis Shaeffer, John Silvetti and Tim Miller with Kurtis productions regarding a documentary on the Persistence undertaking.

However ... when the blurbs below are considered ... all segments of the documentary WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY fall short in regards to the contents of the trap/cage discovered by the Persistence ... the contents of the trap/cage afforded unchallenged to the Arubans by John Silvetti.  Why is that?

Considering Dateline was on board the Persistence right up until December 30, 2007 and ... Bill Kurtis did not arrive on the Island until the end of January, 2008 ... the Kurtis documentary must of been filmed in February, 2008.

Janet

+++++++


THE KURTIS DOCUMENTARY

SEPTEMBER, 2008 - UNITED STATES

Big Spender
 
Upcoming Airings:
Thursday, September 18 @ 11pm/10C
Friday, September 19 @ 3am/2C
Sunday, September 21 @ 4pm/3C  

Bill Kurtis hosts this documentary special that looks at the case that shocked the nation–the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba on May 30, 2005. Natalee was last seen alive leaving a bar with three young local men, who became the prime suspects. Natalee’s mother, Beth, is convinced that the men know what happened to her daughter, but authorities have been unable to come up with definitive proof that they are responsible for her death. Kurtis examines the key questions in the case: Will Natalee’s body ever be found? Why can’t authorities solve the case? And where did the investigation go wrong?

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922&airingid=360996


JANUARY, 2009 - NEW ZEALAND

What Happened To Natalee Holloway
CRIME & INVESTIGATION – Sunday 11 January, 9.30pm

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them, a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway

http://www.throng.co.nz/documentary/what-happened-natalee-holloway


MARCH, 2009 - ASIA

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200


+++++++


KURTIS PRODUCTION DOCUMENTARY?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information.

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

KYLE KINGMAN
 
The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.
 
Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


THE BETRAYAL ON BOARD THE PERSISTENCE
 
It is my believe that justice is never going to come out of an Aruban court for Natalee Holloway.  The far reaching implications regarding all those who participated in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 all the way to those at various levels of the Dutch/Aruban administration would imply the collapse of the house of cards and ... the "powers that be" in both Holland and Aruba will not allow that to happen.  These elected representatives have had 4 1/2 years to let their voices be heard in regards to the corrupt Natalee Holloway investigation while in government ... while in opposition.  It never happened.
 
However ... the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words imply that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by the family and/or the FBI to release Natalee Holloway's remains and afford those who love her a measure measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.
 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver (Jan 7) sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman:   I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.
 
Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.
 
Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time.
 
Kyle Kingman: The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They (samples) were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us othe 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  John (Silvetti) is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kermit - scaredmonkeys.net


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE
 
"If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy."

 
NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER
 
"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She  deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/
 
 
NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER
 
"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824

[Tamikosmom]

I'm so sorry I missed Red last night! I wanted to ask if Beth is encouraged/discouraged or had any feel for the new regime in Aruba.

I will certainly ask her the next time we talk. Personally, until they do something different, its the same old, same old. Same animal, different spots.

Until anyone shows that they will act and conduct themself differently, they will be dubbed the same in my book.

Red ... I agree.

As I have stated before ... it is my believe that justice is never going to come out of an Aruban court for Natalee Holloway.  The far reaching implications regarding all those who participated in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 all the way to those at various levels of the Dutch/Aruban administration who were involved in the cover-up agenda would imply the collapse of the house of cards and ... the "powers that be" in both Holland and Aruba will not allow that to happen.

Aruba's elected representatives have had 4 1/2 years to let their voices be heard in regards to the corrupt Natalee Holloway investigation while in government ... while in opposition.  It never happened.
 
However ... the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words imply that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by the family and/or the FBI to release Natalee Holloway's remains and afford those who love her a measure measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #826 11/07/09 -
« Reply #1860 on: December 08, 2009, 07:21:43 PM »

Nutshell compilation of the Jan 7 2008 activities, posted by Kyle on June 17 2008

I'll ellaborate on the sequence of events surrounding the Jan 7th dive (Trap contents sampling) the best I can while my memory is still sharp. I'll also give a play by play of the trap video.

- 15:00 We arrived on site over the trap on Jan 7th and the Aruban Polis boat was no where to be seen. They were always punctual in the past.

- Tim Miller, Eduardo Mansur, and Dateline was off the boat from Dec 30th on. On the Persistence was strictly the search team and crew.

- After about 20 minutes prepping for the ROV dive, the Polis boat pulled along side the Persistence with divers ready to splash.

- By the time the ROV was in the water, the divers were already at the bottom working on the trap.

- 15:20 PM the ROV gets a visual on the 3 divers, with Diver A working on obtaining trap dimensions with measuring line, Diver B was already inside the trap up to his chest, and Diver C photographing the trap.
- 15:25 Diver A completes measuring the trap dimensions,
- 15:25 Diver B completes sampling trap contents
- 15:26 Diver B finds piece of blue tarp outside of the opening of the trap (on the south side)
- 15:26 Diver C completes photographing the trap and trap samples in 4 bags.
- 15:28 Diver A brings Divers B + C to the spot where the blue tarp fragment was discovered and appears to recover some other object(s)
- The collecting is photographed by Diver C
- 15:29 Divers A+C swim off to the east side of the trap out of view pretty far from the trap for unknown reasons. The Polis boat diver line must have been on that side of the trap. My guess is Diver A brought his samples right to the Polis boat, never again coming into view.
- 15:30 Divers B+C come to the west side of the trap and begin inspection of the trap's rigging (hundreds of feet of rope - no evident markings or floats). (Diver A is still missing from all view-presumed at the surface)
- 15:36 Divers B+C still inspecting rigging, ROV heads towards trap to video the samples in the 4 ziplock bags
- 15:36 Divers A+B+C all out of view of the ROV, likely B+C still photographing and inspecting rigging and west side of trap. Got a visual on the trap contents
- 15:36 - ROV documents 4 bags including a blue fabric sampled from under the body-shaped sand mound which closely resembles denim and a match to Natalee's blue denim skirt. A possible 2nd fabric is seen on the video but the fabric appears badly decomposed. This is a lighter weight fabric but can't conclusively determine what it is or if it belonged to Natalee.
- 15:37 ROV pulls away from the trap and takes a look around - NO Visual of any of the divers, bags still in the Trap.
- 15:38 ROV heads towards the surface for recovery.
- 15:39 ROV at surface
- 15:45 ROV recovered on deck of the Persistence, Polis boat heads away from the Persistence towards shore without a word.
- 15:46 I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.
That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further.

- Within the next 48 hours we talk to Richardson and Mos separately. Richardson says he personally sent the items to our FBI for testing.
- Jan 9th I get off the Persistence for a much needed break until the 14th.
- Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.
I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities. HAHA.. OK. Perhaps an earlier post of mine ellaborates on this a bit more.
- Jan 15th I confront John and strongly suggest we take action to ensure the trap is secured and processed properly, IF it was still there. I asked that we at least check it out after I saw the Dutch on site for two days. He said "we're not spending any more time on that $%&@'n trap and I don't want hear another thing about it or else..." He also said that "sure it's dissapointing, I'm dissapointed to but we must keep searching because she's still out there somewhere and we havn't found her".

John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains...hmm.

However, Mid-January comes along, I meet Mos in the street...and I talk to John about the trap for the first time since ~Jan 15th...
I tell John that I strongly believe we're being played like puppets for possibly one of two reasons:
1) We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching because they're actively investigating what we found, they're putting a case together, and need time to do it all. As long as we're out there searching, everyone is confident that nothing was found. Once they're ready, everything will fall into place.

2) We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

John agreed to the first scenario but I felt that it was a coin flip between #1 and #2 and that we must ensure #2 isn't possible. He made the decision to keep searching and not press the trap issue ever again to my knowledge. I swallowed hard and kept my head down. It was all I could to. Eventually we ran out of money and never heard a thing about the trap other than there was blue fabric found (referring to the piece of tarp), but they didn't admit to the blue denim, rather they just didn't say a word about it. Later the FBI announces to the world immediately after the Dateline special that the fabric they were sent to sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse. We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

I will give an update when I have one. I'm waiting to hear back from Tim and John.

(edited to add: Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6268.msg1030580#msg1030580