THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER


PRIVATE EYE - BETH HOLLOWAY'S BROTHER

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[Tamikosmom]

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Tamikosmom]

Did John Silvetti's participation with the enemy who has denied Natalee Holloway justice since the getgo ... betray a family whose only desire is to bring their beloved home?

Janet

++++++

'Scarborough Country' for July 14
updated 8:45 a.m. PT, Fri., July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' for July 1
updated 7:47 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/

[Tamikosmom]

Red
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/08 -
« Reply #335 on: February 23, 2009, 12:30:16 AM »

Hey Monkeys,

Spoke with Beth today. Nothing of any pressing news, we just had not chatted in a while and it was great to do some catch up with her.

However, I took the opportunity to ask Beth a couple of questions that she was kind enough to answer.

Question: Beth, this may come as a strange question but in light of some people writing misrepresentations regarding stuff that SM has done ... has Scared Monkeys on the FP or in the forum ever made comments, posts or done anything that would have upset you that you were angered or disagreed with?

Answer: Red, are you kidding. Scared Monkeys has done so much good from the beginning how could you even ask that. Are you crazy!

My own comment ... its also not like the family has specifically asked for help regarding certain things since 2005. Whether it be advice, news updates, research or translations.     

The fact of the matter is folks that there has been so much done for Natalee's family behind the scenes that goes unsaid, that they all know and have a direct line if they want to ask a question. They do not rely on third party discussion. Generally speaking over the years, family members have contacted us, not the other way around. I do not believe in burdening people who have lost so much.

The truth of the matter is that SM, Red personally, has a a relationship with members of Natalee's family and nothing anyone tries to do, say or lie about will change that fact. We have fought in the trenches together and have bonds outside of the internet and this case. There is nothing that internet trouble makers can do to break up friendships that exist in the real world.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4574.msg686191#msg686191

[Tamikosmom]

The following are Kyle Kingman quotes were NOT incorporated into the document but ... should have been included.  In my opinion ... the implications are huge.

____


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

[Tamikosmom]

The following are Kyle Kingman quotes were NOT incorporated into the document but ... should have been included.  In my opinion ... the implications are huge.

____


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive. We were encouraged to do so and invited by the Arubans. I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman 06/16/2008: On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

[Tamikosmom]

When it is considered that Jossy Mansur and John Silvetti are one in the contention that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage ... my thought process turns to questioning what was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence.  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.

IMO

Janet
________

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

[Tamikosmom]

When it is considered that Jossy Mansur and John Silvetti are one in the contention that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage ... my thought process turns to questioning what was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence.  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.

IMO

Janet
________

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

[Tamikosmom]

When it is considered that Jossy Mansur and John Silvetti are one in the contention that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage ... my thought process turns to questioning what was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence.  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.

IMO

Janet
________

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle said: I trust Jossy and Eduardo, but only because their agenda overlaps ours and Eduardo was a wonderful help. Although it seems complicated why, they do want the case solved.

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I can't imagine what the family is going through. Over the past several months I have stood witness to a lot. I found myself in a very awkward place of knowing a lot, but not enough, but perhaps too much.

[Tamikosmom]

When it is considered that Jossy Mansur and John Silvetti are one in the contention that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage ... my thought process turns to questioning what was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's continuing presence on board the Persistence.  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed the motives of Eduard Mansur would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.

IMO

Janet
________

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle said: I trust Jossy and Eduardo, but only because their agenda overlaps ours and Eduardo was a wonderful help. Although it seems complicated why, they do want the case solved.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle said: Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

[Tamikosmom]

As Beth Holloway would say ... "Greta, this is huge"!

Kyle Kingman's own would reveal that he was in cahoots with Tim Trahan and Louis Schaefer to expose the Persistence deception using the trap footage as evidence.

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

[Tamikosmom]

Speaking of.......


http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

______

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

[Tamikosmom]

If the Bill Kurtis production had aired would the contents stated in the introduction had shielded John Silvetti from implication in any wrongdoing and ... put the focus on the Aruban's only.

________


JOHN SILVETTI - NO WRONGDOING

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman: Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.


THE ARUBANS - THIEVES IN THE NIGHT

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th. (March 11, 2008)

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

[Tamikosmom]

Continued:

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08:  We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information

[Tamikosmom]

What caused Kyle Kingman to backtrack on his original intentions to reveal to Beth Holloway and the FBI ... with the assistence of the Natalee's Freebirds ... John Silvetti betrayal?

Would revealing the truth encompassing the Persistence deception as well as the ROV images ... have complicated deals with major network deals ... major network which included Louis Schaefer and Tim Trahan while leaving John Silvetti "out of the loop"?

Could incentives pertaining to future career opportunities afforded by John Silvetti been a deterrent not to rock the boat?

Janet

+++++++

NETWORK DEALS:  LOUIS SCHAEFER - TIM TRAHAN

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information.

Kyle Kingman: Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman - 06/16/08:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me.  What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations.  I loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.


FUTURE CAREER OPPORTUNITIES: JOHN SILVETTI

SUMMER, 2008

The Travels and Ponderings of Kyle Kingman

Saturday, August 2, 2008
Through Skøyen Station - Norway, 12-July 2008

On the 7th of July 2008, I flew from Newark to Copenhagen, Denmark. After a 7 ½ hr flight from Newark, I was relieved to land in Denmark. I think the Copenhagen airport was actually a shopping mall disguised as an airport.

<snipped>

The North Sea is a cold, volatile beast. One moment it is tranquil and picturesque, while the next it is an explosive, churning, and bone-chilling frenzy brimming with white caps. Last night, a long low-profile work vessel was operating within a mile of our vessel.

The offshore project manager, John told me that recently 18 people drowned on that same boat when it sank.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/through-skyen-station-norway-12-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


Saturday, August 2, 2008
- Ulsteinvik to Cairo- 24-July
2345 hrs, Thursday July 24th – Cairo, Egypt

It’s 0200 hrs local time. Walking off the plane… “At least it’s not as hot as UAE”, I think to myself. “Please God; let my driver be waiting for me”. I was contacted about 12 hours earlier in Norway by a Dutch agent who needed me in Cairo ASAP and they were not afraid to pay a high price to get me here. All I know is there was to be a driver waiting for me. I don’t know who the client is, what the job is, what I’m doing in Egypt, or if I will even be staying in Egypt.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/2008/08/ulsteinvik-to-cairo-24-july.html
http://kylekingman.blogspot.com/


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 08/1/08:  Sorry for dissapearing for so long. I've been traveling quite a bit to a few places, then to Norway, and am now in Cairo for about 5 weeks. I'll be headed to Lafayette when I get done in Egypt and will be in close contact with John then. I'll provide an update when I'm able. I hope you're all well.

[Tamikosmom]

It appears that John Silvetti words in the following quote is implying that Kyle Kingman is inexperienced.

Think about it.  Would John Silvetti embark on a huge undertaking in an attempt to locate the remains of Natalee Holloway and ... take on board an inexperienced ROV operator and analyst by the name of Kyle Kingman to assist in the task?

++++++

JOHN SILVETTI - IN HIS OWN WORDS

jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world. The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat. It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after. It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8476.msg334979#msg334979


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingsman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Key Personnel:
 
Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


Kyle Kingman
Geophysicist and Marine Geologist
Greater New York City Area

Current Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Past Manager at Kingman Geophysical Solutions
Education Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey-New Brunswick


Kyle Kingman’s Summary
Kyle Kingman’s Specialties:

Project Management, Sonar Acquisition, hydrographic survey, data processing, remote sensing data analysis

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/b/65/464

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas, do you still have that picture of the cage with the diagional measurment
on it?  Isn't it 42" on the bias?

To calculate the diagonal you multiply the length of one side of the square by the square root of 2.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.


Credit: Jen

[Tamikosmom]

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingsman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.

Credit: Jen