November 28, 2014, 05:27:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW SPECIAL SECTION CREATED FOR VIRGINIA AREA MISSING AND MURDERED AND POSSIBLE CONNECTIONS
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)  (Read 77722 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #200 on: December 09, 2009, 01:00:39 PM »

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #826 11/07/09 -
Reply #1858 on: December 08, 2009, 07:19:33 PM


Kyle Kingman post

March 19 2008
*My post to Kyle, so as not to be taken out of context

Kyle,

When you say the rigging was intact on that trap............could you explain a bit further?

Did it look to you like anything (ropes, cables) had been cut? Unraveled? Thus leading to an accidental loss of the trap from a boat?

Or did it appear to you that by it being "intact" that it had been specifically dropped from a boat - without loss of integrity of rigging?


Kyle wrote:

There was litteraly hundreds of feet of rope piled on the seafloor to the WNW of the trap. This is interesting because the WNW is the prevailing current direction. To me, this indicates the boat the trap was dropped from was adrift when the trap was lost! The rope was spread out over 50-100ft WNW of the trap in disorganized piles consistence with how rope would lay if it were dropped and settling on the bottom as the boat drifts away from the initial drop point. There were no buoys, floats, or markers evident from the dive videos. There was no indication of the rigging breaking. The very shallow water relative to the amount of rope found intact on the seabed near the trap suggests the trap was discarded, rather than lost in my opinion. Bear in mind that fishermen do not fish with large commercial traps any where near this area. Further, there are no significant seabed obstructions for the trap to have gotten hung up on.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6268.msg1030577#msg1030577
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #201 on: December 09, 2009, 01:06:29 PM »

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #826 11/07/09 -
Reply #1854 on: December 08, 2009, 07:07:04 PM


Kyle Kingman posts


March 18, 2008, 09:28:45 AM
Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging. 
 
 
March 18, 2008, 11:32:30 AM
This trap was not lowered by crane, or whatever because it wasn't situated in a position that demonstrated "lowering", unless one end was really weighted down? I would think the ropes etc, to the crane would level it?
-Lowering by a windlass or winch would not explain the impact depression from one corner of the trap.  If it were leveled, one would assume it would fall level.  This is further supported because the 4-point rigging was still on the trap.

on: March 18, 2008, 10:21:41 AM
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.
 
March 18, 2008, 11:03:52 AM
It's impossible to tell with any precision, but we are in agreement that the trap was not recently dropped at the time of it's discovery.  By recent, I mean disposed the same season as when it was found.  From the level of marine growth and decomposition of the trap's rigging, tubular metal frame, and square coated wire mesh, the time involved would be on the order of years, but not 10s of years.  Neither the condition of the trap or state of the items found inside the trap preclude a disposal at or near the time of Natalee's disappearance
 
 
March 19, 2008, 03:13:55 PM
We are really limited to ballpark estimates.  The trap wasn't recently lost, as in lost this season. If I had to guess based on the condition of the frame, mesh, rigging and contents, I would say it has been there on the order of several years, but certainly not 10s of years, and certainly more than a year. The amount of deterioration is in my opinion consistent with what you would expect after 2 1/2 years, but this does not confirm or deny anything and is just my opinion.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6268.msg1030568#msg1030568


Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #202 on: January 10, 2010, 04:31:08 PM »

If Beth Holloway was not a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the John Silvetti betrayal ... I firmly believe that the Natalee's Freebirds would not have been afforded her permission to expose those words.  After all ... the reputation of John Silvetti and the Persistence undertaking was in the balance.

Beth Holloway and I are on the same page regarding Kyle Kingman's own words.

It is my opinion that  the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words imply that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by the family and/or the FBI to release Natalee Holloway's remains and afford those who love her a measure measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.

Janet

+++++++

FLASHBACK ONE YEAR:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM


Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly. At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.


The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

thx
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #203 on: January 10, 2010, 04:36:58 PM »

SELF-EDIT

It is my contention that based on the words of the former administrator of the Natalee's freebirds that ... Beth Holloway and I are on the same page regarding Kyle Kingman's own words.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #204 on: January 10, 2010, 05:07:46 PM »

I pray Natalee Holloway's Uncle is wrong.  My hope is that pressure brought on Aruban with the exposure of the Persistence ROV images regarding the contents of the trap/cage along with Kyle Kingman's own words will result in a measure of closure for the family.

Janet

++++++


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE
 
"If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy ..."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER
 
"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She  deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/
 
 
NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER
 
"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #205 on: January 17, 2010, 05:30:29 PM »

A REMINDER

Natalee Holloway's uncle had his concerns regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor when he considered the involvement of the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing for his niece since the getgo.


++++++++

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM


I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM


... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM


If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
 

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #206 on: January 17, 2010, 05:37:11 PM »

A REMINDER

The concerns of Natalee Holloway's uncle regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor were realized on January 7, 2008.


++++++++

Kyle Kingman -  In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:
The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.


Credit: Kermit @ Scared Monkeys
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #207 on: January 17, 2010, 05:52:36 PM »

THE BETRAYAL

If justice for an 18 year old American citizen, closure for her family and accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor were John Silvetti's objectives ... he had a moral obligation to ensure that there was an Aruban invitation secured that would have afforded an FBI presence on board.  This Aruban invitation should have been secured prior to the Persistence entering Aruban waters.


+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM


Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:
The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Credit:  Kermit @ Scared Monkeys
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #208 on: January 17, 2010, 05:56:49 PM »

If Beth Holloway was not a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the John Silvetti betrayal ... I firmly believe that the Natalee's Freebirds would not have been afforded her permission to expose those words.  After all ... both the reputation of John Silvetti and credibility of the Persistence undertaking were in the balance.

When the following words of the former administrator (Jen) of the Natalee's Freebirds are considered ... it would appear that Beth Holloway and I are on the same page regarding the credibility of Kyle Kingman's own words.

It is my opinion ... the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words imply that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by the family and/or the FBI to release Natalee Holloway's remains and afford those who love her a measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.

Janet

+++++++

FLASHBACK:  THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL EXPOSED!

NOVEMBER, 2008

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM


Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly. At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.


The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

++++++


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER
 
"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She  deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/
 
 
NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER
 
"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #209 on: January 18, 2010, 12:43:18 PM »

EDUARDO MANSUR

Other than the January 7, 2008 recover dive ... Eduardo Mansur was privy to all that Kyle Kingman witnessed while on board the Persistence and ... according to his father ... Eduardo negates the trap/cage as Natalee Holloway case related.

The following email to Hotshot implies that no assistance will be forthcoming from Jossy Mansur in regards to applying pressure on the Aruban "powers that be" to afford Natalee Holloway's family a measure of closure by releasing her remains.

Janet

+++++++


Klaasend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #790 1/3/09 -
Reply #173 on: January 04, 2009, 02:37:49 PM


Hotshot just emailed this to me from Jossy.  Hotshot is having problems logging in, I have no idea why as she is not banned. 

Quote
From Jossy:


No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Take care
 
Jossy


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4344.msg611967#msg611967

+++++++
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #210 on: January 18, 2010, 12:46:40 PM »

EDUARDO MANSUR

Kyle Kingman had his suspicions in regards to Eduardo Mansur.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:
  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #211 on: January 18, 2010, 02:44:11 PM »

JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur obviously is not a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words.  He was one with John Silvetti and Caps in regards to the happenings encompassing the Monserat pond search distraction .... that Monserat Pond distraction that was created to divert attention away from the January 7, 2008 recovery by Aruban divers of the contents of the cage/trap ... the contents of the cage/trap that may have been Natalee Holloway's remains.

Eduardo Mansur ... Jossy's son .... witnessed all while on board that ship but ....

What is wrong with this picture.

Janet

++++++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:
There are 18 targets. Two are definitely tires. The rest, who knows. It's likely tin cans, mud clumps, and debris. There is one small box-like target but it's only 2ft across and doesn't have much relief, unless it's completely sunk into the mud (likely). I can find something about the size of a hockey puck with that system in good conditions. The water was very shallow when this survey was done. Remember, in February 2006 the pond was almost dry.


September 9, 2008
DIARIO


JORAN SEEN FULL OF MUD WALKING NEAR THE DAM WITH ONLY ONE TENNIS SHOE ON HIS FEET (Diario)

In the meantime, the Americans, with police permission, made a sonar test of the Dam of Monserat in the beginning of this year, when the level of the water was low. DIARIO has found out that this test discovered 15 objects of interest and that they could define only 3 of them.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/09/10/natalee-holloway-investigation-exclusive-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-in-aruba-to-meet-with-aleprosecutor-new-witness-that-puts-joran-paulus-van-der-sloot-near-ponds-on-53005/#more-6039


Nancy Grace - March 23, 2009

NANCY GRACE, HOST: ... Jossy Mansur joining us, he is the owner of "Diario" magazine -- why isn`t the Aruban government searching the pond? Why is Dave Holloway footing the bill to look for the bones of his daughter?

JOSSY MANSUR, OWNER, "DIARIO": Because the Aruban government has always based itself on the recommendations of the prosecution, and the only thing that the prosecution wants to do is close this case, Nancy.

GRACE: Why, Jossy? I don`t understand. Why is the Aruban government so hell-bent on closing this case without a resolution? This witness, to my understanding, has passed not one but two independent polygraphs. He even identifies the make and model of the vehicle, which goes back to Daddy, Paulus Van Der Sloot, a red Jeep. Why is the Aruban government ignoring this?

MANSUR: I don`t know why. But we will have to ask them to answer that question. But I know this man, the witness, very well. I`ve known him for a long time. And I believe in what he says, especially after whatever he said was confirmed by two polygraph tests which he passed brilliantly.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/23/ng.01.html


January 6, 2009
Press Anouncement
Ladies and gentlemen!


In the month of March 2008 a witness who was urged by Dave Holloway to step forward confronted the Prosecutors Office. The man gave a statement on March 16th 2008 accompanied by his lawyer. This witness statement is already widely known: the witness claims he saw Joran van der Sloot in the middle of the night of May 30th walking in front of his house, soaked up to his chest, walking on one shoe and heavily breathing. He was walking into the direction of the hotels, coming from the direction of the Church at Noord. What the witness was actually aiming for was the Police to conduct an intensive search in the dam of Monserrat. Nevertheless the witness could not give us any reason why the Police should conduct a search in the dam. It was the conclusion of the witness that Joran had come from the dam since he came walking from that direction.

There was no indication whatsoever that Joran had been at the dam. For that reason the Police were not ordered to conduct that search. Later, people from the Persistence asked if they were allowed to conduct a search. They were told that they could go ahead if the wanted to. No results were reported. Besides that, the Monserrat dam, which had completely fallen dry by that time, was not long before that request completely searched by dozens of people, for a completely different reason. No results were reported.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/01/06/aruba-prosecutor-5-page-letter-dont-miss-the-part-where-he-trashes-fox-and-menever-dull/
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #212 on: January 18, 2010, 07:40:28 PM »

When did Jossy Mansur position change ... his position that Deepak and Satish Deepak did not go home on the morning of May 31, 2005 ... did not drop Natalee and Joran off at the beach?  When was the gardener's testimony negated. When did the focus become only Joran vander Sloot in regards to the events encompassing Natalee Holloway's demise?

The time period encompassing the witness ... the pond search ... the distraction from the find of the Persistence ... appears to be when Jossy did a flip flop on this issue

Janet

++++++

DEEPAK AND SATISH DID NOT GO HOME!

Gardener - Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos
Court Testimony - August 15, 2005

 
I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.


Nancy Grace - July 26, 2005

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, "DIARIO":  ... We have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.
 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


DEEPAK AND SATISH DID GO HOME?

Dana Pretzer Show - September 12, 2008

JOSSY MANSUR:  The Kalpoe brothers denied having come back to get him, pick him up. So this man in the red jeep is the man who picked him up, by the pond, and took him home.

Transcript Credit: lifesong

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2008/09/12/the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-friday-september-12-2008-dana-introduces-justice-interrupted-tonight-with-stacy-dittrich-susan-murphy-milano-and-robin-sax/
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #213 on: January 19, 2010, 04:07:51 PM »

THE PLAN TO EXPOSE

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman
- 03/20/08:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

Jen @ Scared Monkeys


ROV IMAGES - DECEMBER 29, 2007

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

In His Own Words


Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment ...

Kermit @ Scared Monkeys


ROV IMAGES - JANUARY 7, 2008

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kermit @ Scared Monkeys

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #214 on: January 22, 2010, 01:39:13 PM »

It would appear that John Silvetti and Robin Holloway are on the same page in regards to trusting the enemy ... the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailed for Natalee Holloway since the getgo.  Why?

Janet

+++++++


Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 -
Reply #446 on: January 23, 2008, 06:04:23 PM


Today at 2:34pm, Reality wrote:
 
Without going into detail, there has been nothing found regarding Natalee other than some Coral and Debris, I'm sure Robin will explain."

Today at 2:38pm by Robin:

If the prosecutors office has evidence relating to Natalee we would have known about it. The crew on the Persistence is working very hard to try, but still nothing of her. They did have something tested that didn't turn out to be anything to do with Natalee but it has been a few weeks ago.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331495#msg331495


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #215 on: January 22, 2010, 04:35:51 PM »

(Continued)

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #216 on: January 23, 2010, 09:57:12 PM »

NO ARUBAN JUSTICE
 
THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY
TLC 2010-01-17

BETH HOLLOWAY
:

"What I can do is hopefully share some life lessons and prevent this tragedy from happening to another family.  So I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I can't.  I can't get justice for Natalee".
http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293


LOVING NATALEE - BETH HOLLOWAY

Page 189
:   It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's very, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead.  From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.  I'm taking leave of the island, but not from the work yet to be done.

Page 197:  There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee.  When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling:  "The threat is bigger than the money," he says.  The Threat.  That dark influence.  The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.
 
+++++++++
 
NO ARUBAN JUSTICE  BUT A MEASURE OF CLOSURE
 
1.  In all probability Justice for Natalee Holloway will never be forthcoming but maybe ... just maybe ... the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words which reveals a John Silvetti betrayal implies that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by Beth Holloway and/or the FBI to release the contents of the trap recovered by Aruban divers and ... afford those who love Natalee a measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.
 
AN ANGUISHED MOTHER
 
"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She  deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/
 
AN ANGUISHED STEPFATHER
 
"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824
 
 
2.  Natalee Holloway's uncle had concerns regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor when he considered the involvement of the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing for his niece since the getgo.
 
SURELY I AM WRONG

"I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong."

IRRESPONSIBLE INVESTIGATING

"But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.  We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history."

DEFENDING THE WORK OF THE ARUBANS

"I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.  And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you."

THE GAME WAS FIXED

"If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

A LARGE CRAB

"They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab."


3.  The concerns of Natalee Holloway's uncle regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor were realized on December 30, 2007 when only Aruban divers in a visual dive deemed the contents of the trap not case related and  ... again on January 7, 2008 when only Aruban divers were involved in the recovery process in regards to the contents of the traps.
 
THE VISUAL DIVE - DECEMBER 30, 2007
 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
 
Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.
 
Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive.  What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up
 
Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.
 
Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.
 
Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.
 
Kyle Kingman:  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he (Tim Miller) was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

THE RECOVERY DIVE - JANUARY 7, 2008

Kyle Kingsman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.


4.  The qualified ROV operator/analyst on board the Persistence determined from his investigation of two separate ROV footages that Natalee Holloway's remains ... in all probability ... were contained within the trap.
 
ROV IMAGES - DECEMBER 29, 2007

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment ...

ROV IMAGES - JANUARY 7, 2008
 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.


5.  If justice for an 18 year old American citizen, closure for her family and accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor were John Silvetti's objectives ... he had a moral obligation to ensure that there was an Aruban invitation secured that would have afforded an FBI presence on board the ship.  It makes sense that this invitation should have been secured prior to the Persistence entering Aruban water.

FBI

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
 
Kyle Kingman:
The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.


6.  It does not make sense that collaborating with the Aruban/Dutch enemy who from the getgo ... was a participant working behind the scenes furthering the Aruban cover-up agenda ... the Aruban cover-up agenda that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.  It is not rocket science   A positive outcome from the Persistence undertaking in regards to justice and closure never stood a chance.
 
DOLF RICHARDSON

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.  I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling ....


7.  It was Kyle Kingman's sincere desire to expose the truth behind the Persistence betrayal in a compiled document to Beth Holloway in hopes that pressure could be put on Aruba to reveal what may have been recovered from the trap on January 7, 2008.  In pursuance of that goal ... Kyle solicited the assistance of those who belonged to a private forum ... those whose objective was that justice would ultimately prevailed for Natalee Holloway.  However ... it Kyle backtracked on his original honorable intentions.  Why?  What was the motivation to betray Natalee Holloway ... betray her family?[/color]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:
  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

++++++++++

The preceding document was compiled by "Tamikosmom" using posts submitted to the Scared Monkey website by "Private Eye", "Kermit", "Jen" and "oceanexploration"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #217 on: January 23, 2010, 10:18:45 PM »

NO ARUBAN JUSTICE
 
THE SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY
TLC 2010-01-17

BETH HOLLOWAY
:

"What I can do is hopefully share some life lessons and prevent this tragedy from happening to another family.  So I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I can't.  I can't get justice for Natalee".
http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293


LOVING NATALEE - BETH HOLLOWAY

Page 189
:   It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's very, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead.  From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.  I'm taking leave of the island, but not from the work yet to be done.

Page 197:  There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee.  When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling:  "The threat is bigger than the money," he says.  The Threat.  That dark influence.  The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.
 
+++++++++
 
NO ARUBAN JUSTICE  BUT A MEASURE OF CLOSURE
 
1.  In all probability Justice for Natalee Holloway will never be forthcoming but maybe ... just maybe ... the threatened exposure of the Persistence ROV footage along with Kyle Kingman's own words which reveals a John Silvetti betrayal implies that pressure could be put on Aruba/Holland by Beth Holloway and/or the FBI to release the contents of the trap recovered by Aruban divers and ... afford those who love Natalee a measure of closure knowing she is home and is resting on American soil.
 
AN ANGUISHED MOTHER
 
"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She  deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/
 
AN ANGUISHED STEPFATHER
 
"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824
 
 
2.  Natalee Holloway's uncle had concerns regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor when he considered the involvement of the enemy who had prevented justice from prevailing for his niece since the getgo.
 
SURELY I AM WRONG

"I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong."

IRRESPONSIBLE INVESTIGATING

"But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.  We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history."

DEFENDING THE WORK OF THE ARUBANS

"I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.  And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you."

THE GAME WAS FIXED

"If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed."

A LARGE CRAB

"They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab."


3.  The concerns of Natalee Holloway's uncle regarding the outcome of the Persistence endeavor were realized on December 30, 2007 when only Aruban divers in a visual dive deemed the contents of the trap not case related and  ... again on January 7, 2008 when only Aruban divers were involved in the recovery process in regards to the contents of the traps.
 
THE VISUAL DIVE - DECEMBER 30, 2007
 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
 
Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.
 
Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive.  What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up
 
Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.
 
Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.
 
Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.
 
Kyle Kingman:  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he (Tim Miller) was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

THE RECOVERY DIVE - JANUARY 7, 2008

Kyle Kingsman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman: We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  Several hours of footage were of other dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.


4.  The qualified ROV operator/analyst on board the Persistence determined from his investigation of two separate ROV footages that Natalee Holloway's remains ... in all probability ... were contained within the trap.
 
ROV IMAGES - DECEMBER 29, 2007

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment ...

ROV IMAGES - JANUARY 7, 2008
 
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.


5.  If justice for an 18 year old American citizen, closure for her family and accountability to those who prayfully and monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor were John Silvetti's objectives ... he had a moral obligation to ensure that there was an Aruban invitation secured that would have afforded an FBI presence on board the ship.  It makes sense that this invitation should have been secured prior to the Persistence entering Aruban water.

FBI

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words
 
Kyle Kingman:
The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.


6.  It does not make sense that collaborating with the Aruban/Dutch enemy who from the getgo ... was a participant working behind the scenes furthering the Aruban cover-up agenda ... the Aruban cover-up agenda that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway.  It is not rocket science   A positive outcome from the Persistence undertaking in regards to justice and closure never stood a chance.
 
DOLF RICHARDSON

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:
   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: Jan 12-13 I saw the Dutch Coast Guard on site for 45 minutes on both days.  I told John about the Coast Guard on site and he didn't want to hear it. However, he must have thought about it and after chewing on it agreed because he spoke to Mos and Richardson about it later. I believe it was Richardson came back to him and said nothing other than they don't have dive capabilities.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember after the Jan-7th dive which sampled the trap Richardson told John emphatically to "keep searching she's still out there in the deep ocean".

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling ....


7.  It was Kyle Kingman's sincere desire to expose the truth behind the Persistence betrayal in a compiled document to Beth Holloway in hopes that pressure could be put on Aruba to reveal what may have been recovered from the trap on January 7, 2008.  In pursuance of that goal ... Kyle solicited the assistance of those who belonged to a private forum ... those whose objective was that justice would ultimately prevailed for Natalee Holloway.  However ... it Kyle backtracked on his original honorable intentions.  Why?  What was the motivation to betray Natalee Holloway ... betray her family?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:
  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

++++++++++

The preceding document was compiled by "Tamikosmom" using posts submitted to the Scared Monkey website by "Private Eye", "Kermit", "Jen" and "oceanexploration"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #218 on: January 23, 2010, 10:20:09 PM »

It would be appreciated if Klaas or a mod could delete post 216.  I messed up and reposted.

Thank you.

Janet
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 35499



« Reply #219 on: January 27, 2010, 05:43:01 PM »

Why did Kyle Kingman backtrack on his original honorable intentions to expose the betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family that took place on the Persistence?

There are indications that Kyle feared a lawsuit being filed in regards to the breaking of a confidentiality agreement he had with John Silvetti and he implied that future career opportunities were at risk.  Logic dictates this confidentiality agreement was in effect prior to Kyle's first post on the Natalee's Freebird site.

Unless otherwise indicated I will continue to give Kyle the benefit of the doubt that his motivation to backtrack was damage control in regards to the grim reality setting in  concerning the financial security of his family.

Was Kyle justified?  No way!  As difficult as it may be ... it is always right to do right and ... allow the outcome emerge.  Kyle's flip flopping from his original determination to expose what troubled him in regards to the happenings on board the Persistence happenings encompassing the trap was an ultimate betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family.

++++++

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM


Kyle sent me this today.

Kermit,

The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee

Sincerely, Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482


ldstlou
Re: The Cage Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm


The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 0.308 seconds with 19 queries.