THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

THE PERSISTENCE

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

December 25, 2007 - Sonar Discover
December 29, 2007 - 1st ROV Dive
December 30, 2007 - Visual Dive and 2nd ROV Dive
January 07, 2008 - Recovery Dive and 3rd ROV Dive


KYLE KINGMAN - KEY PERSONNEL

Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Introduction

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

December 25, 2007 and December 29, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning.  I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

December 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.
 
Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.  At that point, I made the statement to all on board that we do have an interest and that we would recover the cage ourselves.  That is when Mos said they would dive on it but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive and that he would let Persistence know.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

January 07, 2008

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:    Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.

Kyle Kingman:  I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all

++++++++

Submited by Kermit/jen3560 - Scared Monkeys

Compiled by Tamikosmom - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

THE PERSISTENCE STORY

Natalee Holloway deserved so much more.  The family deserved so much more.  Those who supported the Persistence endeavor prayfully and monetarily deserved so much more.

+++++++++


KEY PERSONNEL

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Donated the R/V Persistence for the search effort.
http://silvettigroup.com/

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Tim Miller - Texas Equusearch http://www.texasequusearch.org/ - Project Management, gathering support, missing persons specialist


CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

1.  Introduction - The Detective and The Detective's Brother
2.  The Dec 25/07 Sonar Discovery and The Dec 29/07 ROV Dive
3.  The Dec 30/07 Visual and ROV Dives
4.  The Jan 07/08 Recovery and ROV Dives
5.  The Jan 07/08 Aftermath
6.  Conclusion - Conflicts of Interest?


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

1.  Introduction - The Detective and The Detective's Brother

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

 
2.  The Dec 25/07 Sonar Discovery and The Dec 29/07 ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning.  I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap.  Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The "99.9%" came independantly from Tim Miller to Dave H. on Dec 29th, prior to the diver visual inspection of the trap. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to be told and then completely retracted the next day. I couldn't believe the information was prematurely leaked to the family before we knew what we were looking at. My heart broke for Dave and Beth.  Personally, I fed off of Tim's inflated confidence and my own on the night of Dec 29th. I did not sleep. Few of us did. The only person able to remain completely objective was John Silvetti.  At the time, I thought he was nuts for not siding with the rest of us after the first dive.


ROV Dive Image - Kyle Kingman



Credit: Klaasen


3.  The Dec 30/07 Visual and ROV Dives

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising. Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.  At that point, I made the statement to all on board that we do have an interest and that we would recover the cage ourselves.  That is when Mos said they would dive on it but it would take 1 -2 weeks for a forensics team to arrive and that he would let Persistence know.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.


ROV Dive Image - Kyle Kingman



Credit: Klaasen


4.  The Jan 07/08 Recovery and ROV Dives

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.


ROV Image - Kyle Kingman



Credit: Klaasend


5.  The Jan 7/08 Aftermath

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI.

Kyle Kingman:  I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all


6.  Conclusion - Conflicts of Interest?

Kyle Kingman: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris.

Kyle Kingman:  Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

______

Kyle Kingman posts submitted by Kermit/jen3560 - Scared Monkeys

Kyle Kingman posts compiled by Tamikosmom - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL

Natalee Holloway's Stepfather

Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead.  We want to bring her back to the United States, and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


Natalee Holloway's Mother

We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee. Natalee deserves to return to her country. She deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person. Every single person knows that. They know it.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/


Natalee Holloway's Uncle
 
If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Natalee Holloway's Uncle
 
Sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

 
Natalee Holloway's Uncle
 
I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

 
Natalee Holloway's Uncle
 
Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

 
Natalee Holloway's Uncle
 
I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435

gn

[Tamikosmom]

"I never wished for any of it to leave the forum"?

March, 2008

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kyle Kingman:  Since I got the go ahead from Tim, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect


December, 2008

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December. ....

I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections.  I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum.  I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

yw gn

[Tamikosmom]

Aruba chief prosecutor Peter Blanken's contention is that Joran van der Sloot's words in the Range Rover tape ... words pertaining to the disappearing of Natalee Holloway ... do not reflect the truth.

Does Blanken derive this position from an inside knowledge regarding the Persistence betrayal?

++++++

Unbelieveable and Not True!  

Dutch youth lives under shadow of Holloway case 5 years laterBy the CNN Wire Staff
June 10, 2010 7:22 p.m. EDT

]In 2008, a videotape surfaced on Dutch television. In it, van der Sloot tells a man he thought was a friend he had sex with Holloway on the beach after leaving the nightclub, then she "started shaking" and lost consciousness. He said he panicked when he could not resuscitate her and called a friend who had a boat. The two put Holloway in the boat, van der Sloot said, and he went home. The friend told him the next day that he had carried the body out and dumped it into the ocean.

"I don't lose a minute of sleep over it," van der Sloot said.

He later claimed the account was a lie, saying he told the man what he wanted to hear. A court ruled there was not enough evidence to re-arrest him. Aruba chief prosecutor Peter Blanken said the story was "unbelievable and not true."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/03/holloway.suspect.profile/index.html


Whisked Away!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

THE PERSISTENCE BETRAYAL

A Measure of Closure

There will be no Aruban justice for Natalee Holloway but ... there will be justice nevertheless.  The ultimate justice will be administered by The Judge of all judges ... The Judge who will not be mocked.  He knows every heart.

However ... if Aruba were to bow and return Natalee to her family ... maybe there could be measure of closure for her long suffering family.  John Silvetti, Kyle Kingman and Tim Trahan along with the ROV images could be the motivating force and ... there would be redemption to be gained in the process.
________

Galations 6: 7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Mark 8:36
What benefit will it be to you if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?


Natalee Holloway's Mother

"We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee. Natalee deserves to return to her country. She deserves it, and everyone knows it, every single person. Every single person knows that. They know it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/


Natalee Holloway's Stepfather

"Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead.  We want to bring her back to the United States, and they can do whatever they want to do."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/

[Tamikosmom]

Who Leaked?  Who Breached?

ROV IMAGE - VISUAL DIVE - 12/30/2007

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Video 2: ROV and Diver visual-only inspection of trap. This is the dive Dateline and Tim Miller witnessed, also the dive footage the screen captures I made came from that were posted by Robin at BNH. I sent these 6 screen shots to the FBI and the FBI only. I was shocked to see them posted.  I thought we had a security breach on the boat from my workstation or a leak from the FBI.  Turns out the FBI gave them to Dave H. after he couldn't get them from me. After Tim Miller told Dave that we found her in a trap with 99.9% certainty (this is pre-diver inspection), Dave very reasonably requested them from me. I badly wanted to send them to him, but couldn't. Apparently, shortly therafter the FBI send the screen shots to Dave anyway, and therefore Robin had them.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047
_____



Klaasend - Scared Monkeys

bbl

[Tamikosmom]

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260

[Tamikosmom]

Natalee Holloway's Uncle

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

Sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

[Tamikosmom]

SILVETTI AND RICHARDSON

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

[Tamikosmom]

A LIABILITY?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.


AN INCREDIBLY CRUEL HOAX

The search for Natalee Holloway

TRANSCRIPT
By Chris Hansen
Correspondent
NBC News
updated 5:20 p.m. PT, Fri., Feb. 22, 2008

This bizarre story originated in the central American nation of Nicaragua.

It happened last month, when Natalee’s father Dave received a message from a man who called himself Marcos. He said he had important information about where they could find Natalee's body.

Dave Holloway: He said, "I’d done some wrongs in my past," and he said, "This is my way of making all of my wrongs and all of my sins and doing something right."

Dave was skeptical, but the phone and e-mail messages continued.

In them was a wild tale involving drug runners who said that on the night Natalee disappeared someone had paid them to take her body and dump it at sea.

They agreed but instead they took her remains with them to Nicaragua and hid them on a remote strip of the Atlantic coast.

Dave Holloway: It was a little bit far-fetched for me.

Chris Hansen: What did he want in return?

Dave Holloway: He told us he didn't want anything. And that is what part I started believing in this guy. I said we've got a reward out here.

In January, Dave Holloway asked Tim Miller to head to Nicaragua to arrange for a meeting...and to Miller's surprise, Marcos showed up.

Marcos: I didn't live an, um, exemplary life. I did a lot of wrong things and maybe this is just one way of trying to even up the, the score a little bit.

Marcos wouldn't allow his face to appear on camera, but he agreed to talk to Miller and even officials from the US embassy.

Chris Hansen: And what was the person from the embassy's take?

Tim Miller: The person from the embassy said, "You know what? I think we may have something here."

Together, Miller and Marcos came up with a plan: Marcos would take a GPS receiver to the location and leave it there. Miller, accompanied by local officials would follow the signal to the location and begin to dig.

The next morning Miller's phone rang. It was Marcos. The search, he said, had been a success. But there had been a change in plans. He had the body and would bring it to them in Managua.

Marcos: Tonight before the sun is up, we will be in Managua.

Tim Miller: He says that she was wrapped in a blanket and her body fell apart. He said, "but we had to put her in two ice chests." And he actually said, "call Mr. Holloway right now and tell him I’ve got Natalee."

Chris Hansen: So what do you do?

Tim Miller: I did not call Dave Holloway to say I have the body.

Chris Hansen: You've been down that road before.

Tim Miller: I’ve been down that road before.

Chris Hansen: Did you believe him?

Tim Miller: This time, I believed him.

But after waiting all night for Marcos to appear at the arranged location -- nothing.

Marcos never appeared again and Tim Miller and Dave Holloway are convinced Marcos pulled off an incredibly cruel hoax.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[Tamikosmom]

klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

Please feel free (if you'd like) to post this at your board.
 
During the journey of the Persistence to Aruba, Kyle reached out and emailed with us.  During that time, one of the questions posed to him was regarding protocol if/when Natalee's remains were found.
 
Kyle's response was that he was unsure, but felt that would be settled before the search began.
 
The cautions were given to him about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba's law enforcement, prosecutor's office, and its judiciary.
 
Contact with Kyle continued throughout the duration of the search by the Persistence.
 
Once back home, Kyle asked us for our help.  He was very concerned about the activities that transpired during their search - specifically surrounding the find of the fishing cage and its contents.  Kyle wanted our help in presenting this information in a factual way, to then be given to Natalee's family. 
 
This was March 18, 2008.  At that time, Kyle assured us he had just recently sent the images from the Dec 30th and Jan 7th dives to the FBI, but had never received a response from them.
 
We later found that to be false.
 
Also at that time, Beth's brother saw the images Kyle had shared with us - but none of the detail he shared later.

We compiled the images Kyle presented us, along with his opinions and the facts surrounding the sequence of events regarding that fishing cage.  Kyle stated he would be getting in touch with Beth Holloway.
 
We later found out that never happened.

At this time, Kyle shared with us the broadcast networks he had approached in February, in an attempt to sell these images to the highest bidder.
 
This didn't concern us greatly at that time - as we were under the impression US law enforcement and Natalee's family had already been made aware of their find.
 
Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

At that point, we gave it to John Kelly, Carmen Adams with the FBI, and got it ready for public consumption.
 
The next step was to publish this information at our blog.
 
One of our members felt we were betraying Kyle in doing so, contacted him, and he re-surfaced at our site with threats of litigation against us - stating this was his "intellectual property" and we could not use it.
 
That of course concerned us greatly - as none of us could afford to be sued.
 
He also stated at that time, Luis Shaefer had just recently sold the rights of the video of these images to a broadcast company for the purposes of a documentary.
 
We contacted legal counsel and were advised to keep our distance from any Persistence crew member, in the face of potential obstruction/accessory charges.
 
At this point, one of our members decided to brace for the possibility of civil litigation, resigned from our membership to protect it from same, and posted what he knows to be factual at SM.
 
Kyle did tell us human remains were found in that fish cage.
 
Kyle did tell us about John Silvetti's intent to open an office on the island of Aruba, to enable him ease in conducting business in South America, and Aruba.
 
Kyle also told us of John's absolute refusal to give that fish cage and its contents any credence - before even it was inspected on Jan 7th.
 
Kyle told us in no uncertain terms that Tim Miller and Dateline were abruptly removed from the Persistence on Dec 30, resulting in only Persistence crew being aboard between that date and the Jan 7 dive of the Arubans.
 
Nothing that was posted at SM by kermit was incorrect, out of context, or in any way false.
 
Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Tamikosmom]

The Natalee's Freebirds never agreed to sit on information that revealed a furthering of the Aruban cover-up agenda ... a cover-up agenda that has prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo.

From the getgo ... the understanding was that Kyle desired that the Persistence deception was exposed but ... required the assistance of the Natalee's Freebirds regarding the presentation.

However ... when Kyle backtracked on his original honorable intentions ....

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

The Confidentiality Agreement

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote:
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote:
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

[Tamikosmom]

A VISION?

The Detective and The Detective's Brother

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.
 
Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.

Kyle Kingman: He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed.

 Kyle Kingman: The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. 
 
Kyle Kingman: Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  If a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


ARUBAN AUTHORITIES

Silvetti and Richardson

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

+++++++

A TRUE GRID SEARCH MISSION?

Natalee Holloway's Uncle

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

[Tamikosmom]

A FISH TRAP LOST AT SEA WITH HUMAN REMAINS

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

[Tamikosmom]

WE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LIE

Those who monetarily supported the Persistence endeavor deserved so much more.  Those who upheld the search with their heartfelt  prayers deserved so much more.  The family of Natalee Holloway deserved so much more.

John Silvetti, Tim Trahan and Kyle Kingman are the keepers of the truth encompassing the trap located by the Persistence in Aruban waters ... the trap recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy ... the Aruban enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005.  Will these three men bow and expose all ... paving a way that could possibly return Natalee to her country ... to her loved ones.

++++++


Van der Sloot "feels guilty"
Last Update: 9/07 11:11 am   

It's a familiar refrain, said John Q. Kelly, an attorney for Holloway's mother, Beth Twitty.

"He's always a victim. He's always seeking attention. He's always misunderstood and someday he's absolutely going to tell the truth," Kelly said on NBC. "... He's a pathological liar."

He said it was van der Sloot who contacted him about revealing the location of Holloway's body in exchange for payment. "We knew he was going to lie, and was going to make up the basis for wire fraud," Kelly said. "It's attention-seeking behavior, as simple as that," "He wants to be in the spotlight ... he just can't help himself."

http://www.cbs42.com/mostpopular/story/Van-der-Sloot-feels-guilty/MATtB8P_60-1mpA0vwFzrA.cspx

[Tamikosmom]

It can be assumed Kyle Kingman had the expertise to determine the size and weight of the trap discovered by sonar scan and ... analyzed through ROV imagery.

++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260


The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman

http://jlbworld.com/files/chapter23/sitedevotedtoseasearch.htm
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html

the qualifications of Kyle Kingman.

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Tamikosmom]

THE DOCUMENT!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08:  Since I got the go ahead from Trahan, we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

jen3560 - Scared Monkeys

gm

[Tamikosmom]

MIXED MESSAGES

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  My intentions here at this forum weren't to just spew out all that I know. My intentions were to get a few trusted close people informed, armed, and organized. Then, once organized get a hold of Beth and present things in a controlled private and safe manner. THEN come up with a plan to procede that is well thought-out.


ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December. ....

"I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections.  I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum.  I never wished for any of it to leave the forum."

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191