THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

Tim
 
The words of Kyle Kingman convinces me that you were on the side of justice for Natalee and closure for her family at the time the trap was discovered ... at the time of the visual dive ... at the time you departed from the ship prior to the recovery dive.

What changed?  What/who persuaded you to become a participant ... a participant through silence ... in the furthering of the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005?
 
God entrusted you with the truth and ... you failed Him big time when exposure regarding the Persisence betrayal did not happen.
 
Think about it Tim.  Would you have remained silent in regards to what you observed on board the Persistence if there was a possibility that the remains of your precious daughter had been in that trap recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy.

Think about it Tim.  Would you have embraced a professional relationship with John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer if there was a possibility that the remains of your precious daughter had been in that trap recovered unchallenged by the Aruban enemy.
 
It is never too late to do right.  Bow with genuine repentence ... reveal all to Beth and Dave and ... reveal all to the FBI.  Then ask forgiveness from Natalee's parents  ... ask forgiveness from those who prayerfully and monetarily supported TES in this venture and ... above all ... ask forgiveness from God.  There will be personal consequences ... accountability but ... the burden which you have carried for over 2 1/2 years will be lifted.

Sincerely, Janet

+++++
 
Galations 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

Mark 8:36
What benefit will it be to you if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

[Tamikosmom]

Original Good Intentions

wreck
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #846 9/12/2010 -
« Reply #868 on: September 21, 2010, 04:06:55 AM »

I posted earlier that I thought Tim may have been complicit at the time of the Persistence search ---- I think I jumped the gun. After further thought, I think that both Tim and Kyle originally had good intentions. I think they both to succumbed to the pressure of securing their financial benefactors for the long run. They both sold-out. -JMO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8454.msg1232945#msg1232945

[Tamikosmom]

Original Good Intentions

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission
 
Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

Tim has never wavered in his support of Silvetti and Schaeffer.  The happenings he observed on board the Persistence that troubled him made no difference.  Tim has remained silence regarding the Persistence betrayal while embracing an ongoing professional relationship with both these men in regards to TES searches.

+++++++

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http://texasequusearch.org/

[Tamikosmom]

Thank you Janet!  Your record keeping is awesome!  I also remember that TES needed money after hurricane Ike to feed the horses, etc.  It will break my heart if he was swayed by $$$$  I cannot imagine fighting all the battles Beth has fought and how many people that have stabbed her and the memory of Natalee in the back.

I got a hinky feeling regarding Tim Miller shortly after Kermit revealed Kyle Kingman's posts on the SM Natalee forum almost one year following the January, 2008 recovery of the trap contents.

With frustration/anger and disbelief ... I questioned why Tim ... who had been an advocate for the family since the getgo ... had not come forward in January, 2008 and exposed his concerns to Beth and Dave regarding the troubling happenings encompassing the trap ... troubling happenings that ... according to Kyle ... Tim had observed while on board the ship.  Natalee deserved it!  The family deserved it!  Those who donated to the undertaking deserved it!

Then there was the unchallenged recovery process that involved only Aruban divers ... a process that Tim ... although not a witness ... must have been aware of ... a process that Tim must have inquired about.

Then there was the outreach for funds in February, 2008 to underwrite the continuation of the search in Aruban waters for Natalee Holloway's remains ... an outreach that designated donations to TES.  Think about it ... an ongoing search never happened.

Then when it was revealed that Tim had a professional relationship with John Silvetti and Louis Schaeffer throughout 2008 ... from my perspective ... my suspicions were confirmed.  I concluded that Tim had shoved Natalee and her family under the bus for the sake of the almighty dollar.

Nevertheless ... at the time I was in the minority on the forum with my conclusion.  The majority remained steadfast loyal to Tim and gave him the benefit of the doubt there was an explanation ... a bigger picture had yet to emerge.

Considering the silence regarding this issue of ALL who were on board the Persistence ... if it were not for the Natalee's Freebirds revealing Kyle Kingman's expose' to Beth Holloway ... the entire truth regarding the furthering of the Aruban coverup by John Silvetti may still remain elusive.

My original suspicions may have been validated but ... I would have willingly eaten an entire crow pie if I had been wrong.  For the past couple of days ... along with all Monkeys ... my heart has been heavy concerning ... not only Tim's betrayal regarding the Persistence undertaking but ... his public disrespect of Beth Holloway.

It is my prayer that the humble gentle Tim Miller that we all knew and loved at one time will again emerge.  I could be wrong but ... I believe there are signs that the burden he has carried for the past 2 1/2 years has been very heavy and ... that burden can be lifted if he would only bow and genuinely repent. 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

In THE interview ... Steph and Tim question Beth's motives in regards to the face to face with Joran because of the presence of Peter Devries ... an investigative reporter.  They claim Beth's presence in Peru was financial motivated as there was a documentary in the works.

Does Tim forget a Dateline crew accompanied him when he first boarded the Persistence and stayed by his side until he embarked.

Janet

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec.

[Tamikosmom]

When Tim states in THE interview that he wishes the Natalee Holloway case would just go away as there are many other cases that should now be the focus ... could it be that he realizes as long as the disappearance of Natalee is the focus of media attention ... the Persistence betrayal will be an ongoing topic of discussion ... an ongoing topic of discussion that Tim would rather not be reminded?
________

WE WILL NEVER KNOW!


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

bbl

[Tamikosmom]

Dave and Robin Holloway's trusted relationships with those who are not on the side of justice prevailing for Natalee has been the topic of speculation on the forums since the summer of 2006.

++++++

Debbie (BFN)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 -
« Reply #598 on: June 18, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »»

Okay... there was/is no conspiracy with the Persistence.  Louis, John, Tim and Dave are trying to get the funds to complete the search on the targets.... they are working together.. 
 
Slam me, bash me, I don't care, but it is the truth.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5127.msg845027;topicseen#msg845027

[Tamikosmom]

Many have stabbed Beth in the back by aligning themselves with those whose actions and words reveal that they are not on the side of justice for Natalee but ...  faith in her God and the support of others who have stood by her in this neverending nightmare affords her the strength to continue her ongoing mission to be a voice for her daughter.

++++++

It's Not Easy!

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 219:   I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.

Page 232:  Without hope we are hungry. And on a very deep level, desperate. But no one has to be. What's so amazing is that we can feed each other. We can help each other. We have the power to give resilience to others who are fading. We can nourish each other's spirits and save one another from defeat and despair. Every one of us possesses this power to "love thy neighbor," and we need to use it every chance we get.

[Tamikosmom]

The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


Natalee Holloway: Lost in Paradise
TLC – 2010-01-17

Beth Holloway:

I stay focused on what I can do rather than what I cannot.

http://tlc.discovery.com/tv-schedules/special.html?paid=2.1213.56293

[Tamikosmom]

It's been alluded to, but I'll come out and say it outright:

What IF the reason Tim is angry is because the the "documentary" Peter and Beth are working on exposes the Persistence and TES complicity?

[Tamikosmom]

It's been alluded to, but I'll come out and say it outright:

What IF the reason Tim is angry is because the the "documentary" Peter and Beth are working on exposes the Persistence and TES complicity?

Prophetic?

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #249 on: April 06, 2008, 09:34:33 PM »

It is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692;topicseen#msg371692

[Tamikosmom]

Steph Watts - September 20, 2010

"The face to face meeting with Joran van der Sloot?  Was it a journey for justice or a mission for money." (para)

"Those who have profited from the murder of Natalee Holloway; the murderer, the media and Natalee's mother." (para)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe


+++++++


ROUGH UPDATED OVERVIEW

Tim Miller - Seph Watts Interview
September 20, 2010

Beginning

Tim:
- Robin calls re Dave's collapse.
- Talked to Robin several times today.
- Upholds Dave to the nth degree.
- Dave is a great friend ... wishes they had met ten years ago.
- Ongoing praises of Dave.
- Wants Natalee Holloway case to go away ... there are other cases.

23:00 (approx)

Tim:
- Called Dave when news of Stephany's murder broke.
- Beth did not return Tim’s call.
 
30:00 (approx)

Tim:
- Undermines Beth’s motives regarding the face to face with Joran.
- It is all about the documentary ... not in Natalee’s best intestest.
- Implies that Beth compromised the Aruban investigation.
- Suggests all efforts to get Joran to talk has been damaged.
- Upholds the Aruban investigation.
- FBI and Aruban investigators on the same page.
- Beth failed to make appearances at TES fund raisings.
- Beth is exploiting Natalee‘s disappearance for financial gain.
- Questions credibility of Beth's foundation.
- If Beth wants to make a difference … focus at home.
- Beth is putting money in her own pocket.
- Beth has not financially supported TES
- Agrees "100%" with Steph's bashing of Beth comments.
- Upholds Louis Schaeffer role regarding the Persistence search.
- Upholds Aurban Authorities cooperation throughout the search.
- Continues to uphold Dave Holloway.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[Tamikosmom]

It's been alluded to, but I'll come out and say it outright:

What IF the reason Tim is angry is because the the "documentary" Peter and Beth are working on exposes the Persistence and TES complicity?

A piece of the puzzle?  Is a picture emerging?

Janet

++++++

Klye: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal. DeVries also wanted to arrange a meeting.

[Tamikosmom]

Considering Kyle Kingman talked to Peter Shouten "numerous times back in February (2008)" .... could this "document" that Beth Holloway and Peter Devries are working together on have been in the works since April, 2008 ... the month that private eye submitted the following post to the SM Natalee forum?

++++++


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #249 on: April 06, 2008, 09:34:33 PM »

It is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692;topicseen#msg371692

[Tamikosmom]

Tim Miller's words convinces me that he did not sell his soul to the devil until following the visual dive of December 30, 2007.
______

The search for Natalee Holloway
updated 2/22/2008 8:20:27 PM ET
 
On Christmas Eve sonar pictures revealed what looked like a large trap, almost exactly where Tim Miller theorized it would be.

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.

Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--

Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains. I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

[Tamikosmom]

Here's another one:

2/14/2010
Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?”       

Steph:   “Tim Miller, other people are asking ‘are there any plans to search in the ocean?'  isn’t that like looking for a needle in a haystack in this case?" 

Tim:  “Not really, not with the equipment that John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer have.  In fact, two years ago on December 30th we found a fish trap and we was almost positive it was Natalee’s body in the fish trap.  We dove on it along with the Aruban authorities and then they said they’ve got to contact the Netherlands to see how to preserve it and what to do with it, and we was all going to dive on it together.  The Aruban authorities dove on it and then six weeks later they said the DNA came back as a male.  So, did we find Natalee?  I don’t know.  It certainly looked like her clothes in that fish trap and again we know that the night Natalee disappeared the fishermen’s huts were broken into, a knife was stolen, the big fish trap was stolen, uh, and ironic we found one and I’ve actually got the pictures of that, you know, what certainly appears to be a body in that fish trap.  So, I don’t know.   

2/28/2010
Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?”   

Steph:   “Tim, regarding the 2007 search that you did of the island where you found the lobster trap with the human remains in it, what was the outcome of that? 

Tim:  “Well, I mean, we… (sigh) we don’t really know.  We can’t say positively for sure that there was human remains.  Of course, we got some images and some pictures that certainly made us wonder, and um, you know, what that outcome is, I mean, John Silvetti certainly, um, doesn’t feel 100% that it was and that’s why John wants to go back over there with his ROV because we got 140 plus targets over there.  So, you know, there’s… you know, we just got mixed messages on that if you want to know the truth and possibly we overreacted at that time.  What we seen at the time certainly looked suspicious to us at the time, but again, you know, I can’t say positively one or the other what it was. 

BUMPED

[Tamikosmom]

2/14/2010
Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?”  

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/02/15/watts-up-with-this


2/28/2010
Tim Miller on Steph Watts’ blog talk radio show “Watts Up With This?”   

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/03/01/watts-up-with-this

[Tamikosmom]

As of February, 2008 ... Tim Miller was attempting to downplay and divert attention away from the trap and focus it on the continuing search for Natalee Holloway's remains.

I can only assume that Kyle Kingman kept sonar/ROV results regarding the other targets to himself.

+++++

On the Record w/ Greta - February 27, 2008

TIM MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

Transcript - Heli (RU)


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

oceanexploration:  Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks. (03/03/08)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047


Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris. (06/28/08)

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

I contend that there will be no justice for Natalee coming out of Aruba.  It has been one cover up after another cover up for 5 1/2 years.  The participants in the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 as well as the participants in the ensuing cover up have all been intimated or compensation to prevent the truth from prevailing.

The exposure of the Persistence betrayal by those who were on board the ship and witnessed the happenings encompassing the trap implies that there is a chance that the family will be afforded the opportunity to bring Natalee home to rest on American soil.  If not ... maybe the testimonies along with the ROV images will provided solid evidence that the Aruban investigation was corrupt to the core.

++++++

The Threat

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197: There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117: I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.