THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

[Tamikosmom]

I am one with private eye.  I believe that those who prayfully and monetarily upheld the Persistence undertaking were under the impression that the search for Natalee Holloway's remains would be independent of the Aruban investigation ... the Aruban investigation that had prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005.

+++++

private eye
 Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

December 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim (Miller) believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave (Holloway) that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.
 
Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, (Dolph) Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  (Dolph) Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.


January 7, 2008

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They (divers) were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

yw bbl

[Tamikosmom]

JURISDICTION

Considering a Persistence betrayal against Natalee Holloway may have occurred in Aruban waters ... could it be that jurisdication will prevent the FBI from investigating the actions, observations and motives of Americans who were on board the ship.

Janet

++++++++++
 

Nancy Grace - August 11, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, the facts still remain that those are the last suspects known to be seen with Natalee alive. And everybody knows of their repeated lies that they told the authorities, even their father, Paulus Van Der Sloot. That`s why he was arrested. There was a reason that he was arrested in Natalee`s disappearance. It was not unwarranted whatsoever.

And you know -- and being dismissed in New York, it was on a procedure ruling. Here again, jurisdiction. We have faced that issue since May 30 of 2005. Jurisdiction and extradition have hit us in the face every time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/11/ng.01.html

thx gn

[Tamikosmom]

THE RANGE ROVER RECORDING - A DISTRACTION FROM THE TRAP/CAGE?

1.  Why did Aruban authorities allow the media release of the Range Rover recording ... the Range Rover recording that could be the catalyst in the solving of the Natalee Holloway case?

Disposed - Patrick Vander Eeem

Chapter 18:  Peter and Kees would be in Aruba while I was in Spain. There they would make all the stand-uppers for the show, the text the host uses to make the story cohesive. Not an easy job, because the crime reporter wanted to do it on the beach where Natalee disappeared and of course could not film when people listened in to the wrap-ups he used.  They thought it best to show the tapes to Hans Mos, the lead prosecutor there. They wanted to inform him about the confessions and get a response for the program. ...

Peter checked in with me regularly from the first day I was in Spain. The text messages were flowing back and forth. I now know why he has the reputation of a terrier. He is extremely persistent. There had to be another car trip.

Chapter 20:  Shortly after the promo aired a hacker got into the system of the program’s website due to a mistake of the internet provider who left a port open. He found and posted a portion of an interview Peter R had with prosecutor Hans Mos and the leading investigator Adolph Richardson in Aruba.


2.  When the coverup agenda is considered ... the coverup agenda that had prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 ... could it be that Aruban authorities realized that Joran van der Sloot's words in the recording would benefit the corrupt investigation in furthering that agenda?

1.  Natalee willingly participated in sexual acts with Joran.
2.  Paulus van der Sloot was not involved.
3.  Deepak and Satish were not involved.
4.  The sons of elite were not involved.
5.  The van der Sloot residence is a non-issue.
6.  The observation of the gardener did not happen.
7.  Joran's only crime was the disposal of a body.
8.  The cage/trap discovered by the Persistence and recovered by Aruban divers was a non-issue.

[Tamikosmom]

Hans Mos was aware of the upcoming production regarding the hidden camera "confession" at least prior to the broadcast.  Why was the broadcast allowed to happen?

++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: 10 days before the announcement of the DeVries tapes I met Mos downtown in public.  During this time, I was eagerly waiting for results from the Jan-7th trap samples. I expected him to know something by then. When we met, he asked me how I was doing and he said that he was suprised that I was still in Aruba.  After some small talk back and forth, he asked when I was leaving. I flipped the question around on him, asking, "Hans, you tell me. When am I going home?" With that, he hesitated. It was clear to me that he knew something big that we didn't. I picked up on this and looked right into his eyes and asked him "Hans, between you and I, when will my family see me again?" He looked around for anyone watching or listening, leaned forward and said into my ear: "ten days". He then turned and walked away without saying another word.

I had no idea what 10 days meant at the time, but it meant something big was going to happen. I had assumed it related to the trap and it's contents, but couldn't prove anything. Well, 10 days later the announcement was made about the existence of the land rover tapes.  I was really confused and didn't know what to feel. I honestly was a little dissapointed that the 10 days was about the confession tapes.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

SELF-EDIT

at least prior to the broadcast s/b at least ten days prior to the broadcast.

[Tamikosmom]

When the above words of Kyle Kingman is considered ... why would Hans Mos imply that the Persistence could ... in ten days ... abandon the search in Aruban waters for Natalee Holloway's remains?  What is the connection between Joran's "confession" and the Persistence?

[Tamikosmom]

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ins?

[Tamikosmom]

How long has JD Silvetti been a Corporate Sponsor of TES? Hmmmmmmm.

http://texasequusearch.org/

Thanks Sharon/Tx.

Janet

  You are welcome Janet.  I am not getting a good feeling.

TIM MILLER AND THE PERSISTENCE

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec.

 Kyle Kingman: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.
 
Kyle Kingman: Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

 Kyle Kingman: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.
 
Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.
 
Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.
 
Kyle Kingman: For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

November 29, 2007
Natalee Holloway's parents to meet with Aruban prosecutor

<snipped>

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it."

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said


http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/29/aruba.holloway/index.html

[Tamikosmom]

THE DOLF RICHARDSON - PERSISTENCE CONNECTION

Cllaborating Dolph Richardson ... the Aruban/Dutch enemy ... who from the getgo ... was a participant working behind the scenes in the corrupt investigation ... the corrrupt investigation that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005.  It is not rocket science   A positive outcome from the Persistence undertaking in regards to justice for Natalee and closure for her family never stood a chance.
 
Those who sacrificially donated to the Persistence endeavor were deceived in regards to the purpose of the mission.  The furthering of the Aruban coverup agenda was never the understanding of those who upheld the undertaking prayfully and monetarily.
______
 
THE DOLF RICHARDSON - PERSISTENCE CONNECTION
 
On the Record w/ Greta - April 5, 2006

JULIA RENFRO, EDITOR, ARUBA TODAY: Well, he (Dompig) actually said this last September that he was only suppose to be on the case for about six weeks. He was actually manhandling two positions by doing both the Noord district as well as the Oranjestad district. So, you know, this was a hefty handful here and Richardson who has been on the case since day one under Van der Straaten has continued on in Van der Straaten’s position.
 

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   Richardson was very quick to dismiss the trap as case-relevant. Richardson was insisting that we keep looking FAR out to sea in very deep water.  He was the one briefing the ALE divers on how to handle the site.  He was the one who handled all the evidence that came out of the water.  He was the one who admits to personally sending the fabric sample to the FBI for testing (although it got to the FBI two weeks after he said he sent it).


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

Idon't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

ty bbl

[Tamikosmom]

RANDOM QUOTES:

Natalee Holloway: Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch Discusses Crab Trap, Clothing and DNA Found in Waters of Aruba
February 27, 2005 2008

Video:
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/02/27/natalee-holloway-tim-miller-of-texas-equusearch-discusses-crab-trap-clothing-and-dna-found-in-waters-of-aruba/


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

MILLER: ... Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.

Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep" and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea ...


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

MILLER:  It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for.  In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container ...


FOX ONLINE - JAMIE COLBY
July 15, 2007

COLBY:  Tim, why are they (Arubans) standing in your way?

MILLER: I don't think they can stand in our way. With the equipment we got and if we have to go in off of Venezuela. Whereever we need to go into, we've got the equipment. In fact they are more than welcome to be on the ship with us. The ships that we are taking over are a 265 foot ship and a 340 foot ship which have all the latest technology on it. In fact the owner of this company, Louis Shaeffer of Superior Offshore International, Louis called Dave Holloway up about two months ago when I was at Louis' house. He said "Mr Holloway, I'm going to promise you something, if your daughter is in a metal container out there in that water, we are going to bring her home."


DANA PRETZER
June 8, 2007

MILLER:  How can you put a timeline on it but you know with the size of these ships, the technology that we're going over there with, we're optimistic. These ships are actually equipped (inaudible) incredible company that's offering these services and again we're going to be interviewing them next week and it's something we've been wanting to make happen, for somebody to step forward. I've been talking to them since December ....

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/06/08/the-dana-pretzer-show-friday-june-8th-2007-special-guests-tim-miller-robert-peters-janice-smolinski/


FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by Aruban divers in about 90 feet (27 meters) of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

Click here for photos from the case.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

?

[Tamikosmom]

THE POND WITNESS - TRAP/CAGE DISTRACTION

THE VINDA DE SOUSA CONNECTION

Natalee Holloway's Dad: Aruba Investigators Ignored Another Potential Witness
Thursday, November 20, 2008

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: ... But in terms of what you have uncovered with this witness, has this witness of yours spoken to Hans Mos, the prosecutor?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, FATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: He has. He spoke with him probably about four months ago in the presence of Vinda de Sousa ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html

ins?

[Tamikosmom]

VINDA DE SOUSA

klaasen
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #827 12/9/09 -
« Reply #1267 on: January 08, 2010, 09:06:55 PM »

I really wonder if Dave Holloway is aware that Julia Renfro is drinking buddies with his Aruban attorney (Vinda de Sousa)?  It's unfortunate that Natalee's family (specifically Dave & Robin) have continued to be deceived by these people.

Photo:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=6448.msg1050578#msg1050578


Robin Holloway - December, 2007

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something.
 
As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee ....
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2409.msg311317#msg311317


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 136:  We're fortunate that one of the men from home here to help us is an attorney, so he personnally interviews several Aruban lawyers and decides Vinda de Sousa will be as good as any.  Her retainer is $5,000 up front.

Page 179:  During this time we add a new attorney, Helen Lejuez, who tells us she is confident that we can access official documents for us.  Her retainer is also $5,000 up front.  We give her copies of all the materials we've collected.  She gets started.  And Vinda, the first attorney, quits, refusing to work on a team with Helen.  Vinda sends another bill, for $15,000, but we are not able to obtain an itemized invoice for this. 

[Tamikosmom]

THE POND WITNESS - A DISTRACTION FROM THE CAGE/TRAP

The credibility of the pond witness is not the issue ... the issue is that Hans Mos refused to consider any information the family has acquired that would implicate Paulus van der Sloot.

+++++++++++++

02 - 15 - 2008 / 11:30 a.m. (G.M.T.)
NO REARREST FOR JORAN

For all clarity, the fact that Van der Sloot has not been taken into custody on remand does not mean that the judicial investigation against him has come to an end. Far from it. The Public Prosecutor is working hard on the case in which Joran van der Sloot is still prime suspect.

Peter R. de Vries

http://www.peterrdevries.com/news-norearrest.htm


On the Record w/ Greta - November 20, 2008

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Hans Mos does not believe this witness?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: Hans Mos does not believe the witness. And when the witness gave his statement, it's my understanding that when he got -- when he almost got to the part talking about the judge, Hans Mos made a comment that, what a nice guy he was and all this kind of stuff. ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Did the -- did -- was there ever any follow-up to see whether or not your witness had information that was truly helpful? Did Hans Mos, even though he didn't believe him -- did he at least assign someone to go out and investigate and look at that pond area?

HOLLOWAY: No, he didn't. You know, we had asked him to. And in fact, we had planned to go excavate the pond ourselves, and these hurricanes came through and one came close to Aruba and filled the pond back up with water. It's still our plan to go back. I think Hans Mos and I discussed, you know, Natalee's not in the pond, but we believe that, you know, he could possibly find a tennis shoe, maybe her driver's license or even some of Natalee's clothing, which would help lead into, you know, the timeline. And also, this witness implicates Paulus van der Sloot. So if that's the case, you know, that needs to be done.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,455069,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

HOPE

November 29, 2007
Natalee Holloway's parents to meet with Aruban prosecutor

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it."

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.

Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/29/aruba.holloway/index.html


THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

BROKEN PLASTIC BAGS?

Why are Hans Mos, the Polis and John Silvetti concerned about in regards to the release of the RV photos if there was nothing case related within that trap/cage?

++++++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - 05/17/2008:  I need immediate help.  I need to know what we know about Caps and Destiny. I need their names if possible.  I also need the information Caps originally posted about the pond search. Preferably the original posts with date and time stamps.  Apparently I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos to SM.


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #785 12/13/08 -
« Reply #901 on: December 17, 2008, 07:17:24 PM »

JOHN SILVETTI TELLS CAPS THAT THE TRAP/CAGE IS A POSTOFFICE AND THE CAGE WAS EMPTY.

MARCH 3, 2008 – John Silvetti meets with CapsLockWizard

From an email sent from CapsLockWizard:

“Yes, We did have the meeting today. It was a long meeting and we are all set to start the process of a permit to drain. Witness will gave statement to Lawyer (Helen), Lawyer will motion to drain the pond to OM. If Motion denied, will go to media and expose more dirt. John knows everything now and he will stay behind to help and protect. John state the cage was empty. it was full of these broken plastic bags that shows on the cam like skull, but he said to me it is the water doing tricks when picture was taken. He thinks also it is a postoffice.   When I told him the story about the cage, he also understand now some things that he could not have question about. Like why is the Panter allways parked over the spot while there is notting anymore in he cage. The meeting end at 5:00 pm and was very good. About the Pipes. They will be checked. Also John thinks that the signs are there but need to drain the pond. Also Withness is 99% it was some one that came from the pond area that he saw, because it looks like a dutch man and was cover in mud from the chest down.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4239.msg588188#msg588188


jdsurveyor1 Newbie Posts: 11
John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee «
Reply #13 on: April 03, 2008, 07:52:13 PM »

The important thing is to raise funds. It will require corporate support as well as private donations. Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.  The media really blew the cage out of proportion. Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat.  It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast. My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after. It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest. The crew moved onto other targets. Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=8476.msg334979#msg334979

[Tamikosmom]

BACKTRACKING?

Had Kyle Kingman second thoughts regarding the exposure of what he perceived as John Silvetti's betrayal to Natalee Holloway and her family?  Was Kyle Kingman attempting to stall the release of the document compiled by the Natalee' Freebirds?  Were the following words of Kyle Kingman nothing but B.S.?

++++++++

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The  way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship. ...

I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to.

Kyle Kingman - June 10, 2008:  I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively.

Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman - June 13, 2008:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle Kingman - June 16, 2008:  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John. The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me.

I loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

Kyle Kingman - March 18, 2008:  I did not give the information to the FBI and I'm unaware of anyone relaying the possibility to them.

Kyle Kingman - June 20, 2008:  I prefer moving forward with the evidence I have access and knowledge about and using that as a can opener. Once the can is open, the worms are revealed.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


klassend
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #787 12/24/08 -
« Reply #411 on: December 30, 2008, 06:53:44 PM »

Sent to me by Natalee's Freebirds:

<snipped>

Approximately May 2008 Kyle began dodging questions for details (we had asked for names of Aruban police and divers to be included in our documentation of these events), hedging on moving forward with this, and then he completely disappeared from our board.
 
During that time, we learned Kyle had never contacted Beth, or Dave, or the FBI with this information.
 
We put our original plan into motion - that of presenting this information in a clear and concise manner, and we sent it to Beth Holloway.
 
Beth was disturbed, needed time to digest the information, and wanted to share it with someone she trusts.
 
When Tim Miller was returning to Aruba this past fall, Beth gave us permission to release this information publicly.

<snipped>

Regards,
 
Former Natalee's Freebirds Administrator

Natalee and her family deserve justice - and we will not let up until they have it!

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4269.msg603349#msg603349

[Tamikosmom]

Considering the perceived betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family by John Silvetti occured in Aruban waters ... would jurisdictional issues imply that the FBI has no authority to investigate in regards to the actions, observations and motives of Amercans who were on board the ship.

I am led to believe by someone I trust that this is the case.

 

However ... there is still work to be done.  The compilation of Kyle Kingman's own words implies another aspect to the furthering of the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing for Natalee Holloway ... for almost five years ... has been both recognized and documented.

Maybe one day ... an individual who was on board the Persistence ... an individual who was involved in the happenings encompassing that fateful night or ... an individual who participated in the initial cover-up agenda ... will grow a conscience ... bow and ... reveal respective truths which Natalee's family so desperately requires for that measure of closure.   

+++++++

Nancy Grace - August 11, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, the facts still remain that those are the last suspects known to be seen with Natalee alive. And everybody knows of their repeated lies that they told the authorities, even their father, Paulus Van Der Sloot. That`s why he was arrested. There was a reason that he was arrested in Natalee`s disappearance. It was not unwarranted whatsoever.

And you know -- and being dismissed in New York, it was on a procedure ruling. Here again, jurisdiction. We have faced that issue since May 30 of 2005. Jurisdiction and extradition have hit us in the face every time.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/11/ng.01.html


Oprah Windrey Show - January 27, 2008

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY’S MOTHER: We’ve never really relied on an investigative approach to find an answer to Natalee. I think what we’ve relied on more heavily is that at any given moment something unexpected could happen and we really feel anyone could talk.

http://www2.oprah.com/world/politics/slide/20080116/politics_284_203.jhtml

ins? bbl

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - June 13, 2008: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


Kyle Kingman - June 29, 2008: I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies.


Kyle Kingman - June 29, 2008:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.

I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours.


Kyle Kingman - July 7, 2008:  Greetings

As a quick update:

- Tim Trahan was just let go. He'll be unemployed by the end of the month. This comes as a complete suprise to me. Underwater Expeditions is being dissolved. More details later.
- John says he knows nothing of the Aruban pipeline project.
- Tim Miller is not involved in the pond search.
- The pond search is still being planned.

I'll be headed out to Norway this evening. I'll be back in about 40-60 days, but should have internet access.

Blessings to all,

~K

jen3560 - Scared Monkeys

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman - June 13, 2008: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


Kyle Kingman - June 29, 2008: I know John went to Aruba solely to find Natalee. He did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion. I can't blame him for that, but he did take too much focus off the trap too soon. He claims to know a lot more than I do. I agree, but knowing more information from someone I don't trust is dangerous in my opinion. I'd rather know less lies.


Kyle Kingman - June 29, 2008:  I havn't heard John mention anything about the pipeline project. If it happens, I hope he's able to do the project. It would be great and his company would be in good position to bid on the job. It wasn't his purpose on going to Aruba.

I'm curious if the birds connects the dots and figures out what John will do before he knows what he's doing. Well, he's a pretty shrewd businessman and usually thinks at least three steps ahead. We'll see how this plays out. I'll be at his house in about 5-6 hours.

jen3560 - Scared Monkeys

jen3560
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #804 3/1/09 -
« Reply #460 on: March 04, 2009, 12:04:50 PM »

The above posts were made by Kyle after the Freebirds had posted in a timeline all the information we had compiled on both John Silvetti and Louis Schaefer.  Kyle couldn't stress enough that we should sit tight on the info, not do or say anything about it to anyone - and this was the first stage he brought up information being handled in a "legal manner".

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4617.msg702620;topicseen#msg702620